KirisatoSei

Which is exactly interesting in it's own way.. While it is true that she's fond of Ran but if anything else,I'd say He owes a lot more to Kudou for saving her life while she was posing as a serial killer to lure out Akai. She is very interested to Kudou for being the "silver bullet" but why Ran? I can't stop myself from suspecting that Vermouth knows Eri Kisaki (hence, more fire in my Eri Kisaki Theory). Seeing that Eri and Yukiko are childhood friends/rivals, and Yukiko becoming an apprentice of the 1st Kaitou kid (together w/ Vermouth), I think that those three had a connection. Hence, Vermouth have an unexplained affection for Ran. Strong enough for her to go that far...

It was a warning shot while calvados was sniping afar.. though she didn't "shoot" him directly, but to fire a warning shot is good enough to ask why on Earth did vermouth do that....

And likewise I still don't know why Vermouth would shoot Calvados just to save Ran. I know that Vermouth was fond of Ran (in the Golden apple Case) but to jeopardize the whole operation just to save Ran?!??! Nahhhh. Something's off.. {(made a mistake in the first quote box.. too lazy to change coz it's already morning here ) i hope the guys here wont mind.}

That's quite correct. I heard that Gosho himself said that if the name of the organization is revealed, then the name of Anokata will be instantly known. I still like the Eri Kisaki theory, but Chekhov killed it with cold facts. Still what interests me more than the theory is the fact that Sherry and Eri haven't met even once in the entire series! I seriously thinks definitely something to wait for. Remember: Gosho said that Sherry would be so shocked once she knows who Anokata is.. BUT: We all know that Gosho is a master of red herring, of putting hints then disproving it, of making thing appear a certain angle but is not really meant to be looked like that. I strongly feel that Kogorou Mouri's past is strongly connected to Anokata's Identity. Whether it's his past or Eri Kisaki's past, I don't know. With the introduction of Sera, another angle is making it's way into the DC world. Akai, Sera, even Bourbon's teaming up with Vermouth is clearly a prelude to something big. Something that might have an effect to the whole series.

So I was rewatching my Favourite scenes in DC.. then i stumbled upon Ep. 345 where the confrontation about Vermouth occurs.. Now this is what I notice.. When Ran saved Haibara, Calvados attempted to shoot her several times unsuccessfully.. but what i really find it strange was Vermouth's reaction.. She was completely distressed.. She was completely scared for Rans life that she eve fired a warning shot to Calvados' position,,, now why would she do that??? There's no possible reason for her to save her.. except that she holds a very special meaning to her.. ( she was fond of ran when she was Sharon Vinyard in the L.A. Case).. if it was Shinichi, then Vermouth saving him is acceptable.. but RAN??? for him to shoot Calvados to save Ran is not reasonable.. Why will she sacrifice the entirety of the mission to save Ran Mouri's life? Now for me, as a fan/theorist.. i present 3 explanations.. (there may be others.. but this is the best i got) : 1. She was fond of Ran.. and possibly felt indebted to her for Ran saved her life when she disguised as the serial killer in the L.A. Case... (Akai was first introduced as FBI there) 2. Based from numerous but unreliable fan theories.. Ran is Kogorou's daughter.. now i reallly dont believe Kogorou is a member to the Black organization.. the rest of making this theory is up to you 3. Lastly.. this is a conjuncture to my theory..sadly, Chekhov really did nice in counter-arguing it.. ( though it's still my #1 theory)... If Eri is the Boss.... that would explain A LOT about her actions..and even if she isnt.. i still believe that vermouth knows eri kisaki personally... also the fact that in the entire series, Gosho successfully hides the fact that Haibara never ever met Eri in the series is rather suspicious for me.. If I play my Kogorou/Eri Kisaki past involving the Black Organization theory....i think it rather fits well... On other notes.. the parents of Haibara is not the BOSS for me... coz again in the episode.. Vermouth said " Blame your stupid parents for your fate".. why would Vermouth.. "that person's favourite"... would say that the boss is stupid... i dont think so... As for Chekhov.. it would be naive of me to think that you wont counter this.. but im looking forward to it.. through your criticisms, i can revise and revise my theories also.. i enjoy reading your works.. it's really superb.. Also the Boss said to Vermouth... "i think I've given you too much freedom...".. Is it because Vermouth failed........ or is it...................................... because someone close to the boss was put in danger?????? Now.. i do not know.. LOL.. xD

I read somewhere that it has already confirmed by Gosho Aoyama himself ,in an interview, that Agasa Hakase is not the boss of the Black Organization..

Read my posts on the previous page about my thoughts in that "Ai will be surprised" issue... and also Chekhov's counter-argument on my Eri Kisaki theory.. well it'll almost hit the 1000th chapter.. and i'm sure it will come to that... so the thought of the Big Boss still not appearing i the series will be a real downer.. imagie reading a 1000+ chapters and the main boss isnt yet coming.. it's not like it's one piecenor is it like hajime no ippo.. so i'm very weary of the idea of the boss as a new character.. besides, if Gosho's former wife really knew who the Boss was, then it couldn't be a new character then... so the very plausible idea was it was among the first or major characters in the series..

Also Gosho didn't specifically said that ONLY Haibara will be surprised... This clue is very vague.. It may be a misdirection by Gosho himself.. When fans heard about this clue, they immediately came to 3 conclusions.. 1.) that Ai won't expect him/her to be the boss 2.) That it's either someone very close to Ai.. (her "radar" sense to BO members wont work) 3.) that it may be part of Ai's family.. See? After this clue.. all thoughts are centered around this idea.. I don't know if this is very "reliable" or not.. but they disregard the fact that Gosho himself didnt specifically pointed out that ONLY Ai will be surprised.. He is a master manipulator.. Hell , that's why we're all hooked to his series.. That's why I'm having reservations on these train of thoughts and theories about Ai.. By saying that clue.. he already shifted the balance.. it all gravitated to Ai.. The character of Sherry was heavily scrutinized.. that's why Atsushi family members (even her dead sister) was very popular theories for boss candidates.. Lol..

It's a common misconception of readers to regard "he" in Japanese as automatically a male.. That's not true.. "He" is used for someone unknown... Just as the word "it" for things... "He" is used for persons... Lol. "He" is a universal annotation for someone so don't disregard the idea that the Boss may be a woman.. Lol.. I'm kinda getting tired explaining the "He" part to anyone... Just take this for example... You are writing an essay/story/novel.. etc.. and you decide to introduce an "unknown" person... It is ridiculous to always write "He/She" and writing 'She' will automatically make the "unknown" person a woman.. On the other hand.. writing "He" will not make that person automatically a male and will make readers guess on that person's gender.. You're just referring that person with the word "He"... so.... Ergo.. the word "He" used by Gin doesn't mean anything at all..

Yeah.. I'm kinda stretching it.. It starts to be embarrassing.. What really makes it difficult is that there's too much information... and too vague hints...(although the info seems to be never enough).. you tend to "think" that it happened like this.. or like that... disregarding the tiny little details that may be used to counter your "theories".. LOL.. Just a moment ago I read the latest English-translated chapter and it was revealed that Vermouth and Bourbon is in league with each other and they both know Conan's identity.. It literally "killed" my theory because Bourbon's involvement wasn't considered and we don't know why the hell he is keeping this vital information from the Organization... Lol.. Eri Kisaki's character was so in align with the Boss' character than any other characters in DC (I think?)... Except that Mouri Assasination Attempt. Even the public's widely-acclaimed info about the Boss seems to fit Eri's.. Ahhhhhhh. It's so frustrating!!!!! @Chekhov.. who was your choice? lol.. just curious..

@ I agree w/ these points.. These are all reliable facts i will consider .. however as i always mention... these are all just theories... (however far-fetched it may be..) on the issue on her not knowing Akai was there... as i "theorized" she could even be the one who tipped him anonymously.. as for her being omniscient... she isn't.... though she certainly has the capacity and the brains (as BOSS) to pull the strings in both sides... for her reasons on approving to "kill" Kogorou... I'm at loss.. your ideas is far more realistic than mine (though not entirely improbable) All in All.. I would have to definitely agree with you.. I'll revise my theories in all those points mentioned.. thanks.

Yeah.. But you can still further shorten that list.. Yusaku, Shiratori, the actress who kogorou admires.. (forgot her name), James Black.... They have so many contradictions that it's already overwhelming.. What i want is to create the shortest list possibe... w/ a maximum of 8 and minimum of 3.. lol.. )) wish me luck though..

Yes.. I've been following your rebuttals in the forum and I'm quite a fan. lol. This incident (Approval from Boss in FBI vs B.O.) is the only reason that puts the suspicion of Eri Kisaki into question. This "contradiction" of personality is the major hindrance for this theory.. What I'm trying to propose, however, is the capacity of "the BOSS" as a human to make errors in his/her decisions. If we'll put that to consideration, then we can almost "clear" this hindrance in this theory. On the issue of her love for Kogorou... As i already mentioned... the probability of Gin succeeding was considered low because of 3 reasons. 1. Vermouth ( as seen, she "voiced out" her opposition to Gin when he said he got confirmation from the BOSS) 2. Conan (for obvious reasons.) 3. Akai (on whom the Boss considers as the most obvious threat to the org) The appearance of the 2 so-called Silver Bullets and Vermouth is I think enough to put the BOSS at ease.. which was almost his/her undoing.. Also, Gin's words are all we have. He may have easily provided an "another meaning" to the Boss' words.. And if the Boss didn't approve, He/She may be seriously compromised in the organization because: 1. He/She agreed to murder Yasuteru Domon and Pisco.. why would he/she save a lowly detective like Kogorou? (Gin would most certainly be suspicious) 2. Gin would be suspicious of the whole Mouri family (also Conan) because that'd make The Boss and Vermouth seemed to be interested to them.. For her not knowing where Ran is, that's easy: 1. She could've invited Ran to have dinner w/ her or what.. 2. She knew what Ran would do that day.. 3. She "made" sure that Ran wouldn't be home... It wasn't really accurate on why Ran was not in the house.. but for someone such as the Boss.. "arranging" things won't be difficult.. As said.. If we will continue w/ this line of thinking.. the "hindrance" to suspect Eri Kisaki would vanish.. and she will be . most likely, the most possible candidate to be the BOSS. About Midori ( I concur. My knowledge of DC is not 100% accurate though i try it to be..) I mentioned in my post yesterday(i think?) that I'm trying to create a short-hand list of what i think is the most likely candidates for who the BOSS is.. my standards for choosing is very strict because only those who can counter all doubts against them can be included in this list.. as of now.. Eri Kisaki is what I've been thoroughly investigating because i strongly believe it's her.. i dont want to be biased though.. Honestly, with so much crap like "I think it's Shiratori because of that episode where he drinks, and I think It's Yusaku coz' it'll be more interesting that way.." ... WTF? It's hard for me to collate the facts from rubbish.. only with guys like Chekhov can I know if i'm wrong or right... lol.. I really want some feedback on this theory. I want my theories to be disproved by someone! otherwise, i'll find that it would be boring to find out who the boss is.. Why Do I WASTE MY TIME FINDING THE BOSS' IDENTITY? -----------> Coz' the boss' identity is like a puzzle to solve to me rather than waiting for Gosho Aoyama to reveal him. Indeed, his hints and the generally-"acknowledged" personality and truths about the boss is like his "challenge" for everyone to find out the truth. There's only one truth, after all. And I would want to be one of the chosen few who can say.... " I F***ING KNEW IT!!!!!" That way.. I may as well die tomorrow.. LOL! xD

@Chardonnay, that is that is very true and i agree that it is impossible to identify the BOSS... but i think that given the hints and personality of the BOSS provided by Gosho Aoyama, and "speculating" that he/she is already in the characters of DC, then i think that the info is enough to create a short list on possible suspects.. but what i want to point out is.. there's almost a thin line between "guessing" and "deductive reasoning".. Just what Holmes said "normally, when one is given a series of events, one would most likely give the "future" event or in this situation we're "waiting" for it.. Thus, it can be called as guessing/inference.. However, one who is able/trying to "guess" all the reasons why those events happened up to the last point to determine the future.. can be called as "analytical/deductive reasoning"... Please don't think I'm a Holmes/Conan-wannabee.. but the mystery of who the BOSS is almost like a "puzzle to solve" for me rather than "waiting for Gosho to throw another bone".. Yes, the data is not enough.. but if one would be able to create a "convincing" list of suspects then all we need to do is use the process of elimination to find out who the Boss is..

Lol. that's impossible..I feel that All the main characters who knows who the real Conan is can be removed off the list.. Why? coz' it'll contradict the whole plot. Being close to Him and not using it as an advantage is certainly noth the BO's style... Besides, Heiji doesnt fit to be the BO Boss.. lol.

to c@crogers15.. just read the very very long post i posted before you.. i examined them many times.. though it's all theories, it gives you the "what-the-heck?!" vibe? I also feel the "vibe" you feel about eri.. that's why i posted those theories.. what i can't believe here is that everytime eri is mentioned as a possible boss in the forums, no one takes it seriously.. even the sub-post on the "Eri-Boss of B.O." sectio here wasn't really seriously considered.. i mean... on what i gathered.. Eri has the most "points-to-consider" than anyone else in the DCW. They focus more on Agasa and Yusaku. Lol. i think that Gosho Aoyama wouldn't do something like that because it will invariably destroy the "plot". Yes, it'd would be a one-hell-of-a-twist if it's true.. but i just can't picture it.. Agasa knows Ai's involvement... ad shinichi.. Yusakau is shinichi's dad.... lol.. i cat get any weird vibes from them.. lol.. i'll gladly read your thoughts on the Eri Kisaki theories.. i am not forcing someone to believe me. All I'm saying is if you try to understand it before posting nonsense in the forums, you can see on who are those that has the highest possibilities.... lol.

I think it is eri kisaki.. i've backed it up w/ very agreeable theories.. follow it in the General Discussion on Who Is the Boss of Black Organizatio... Anyway, I'm new here.. The primary reason I went here is.. RESEARCH. I got this crazy-ass theory that (*thumbs-up to the OP) ERI KISAKI is either a member or the boss of the BLACK ORGANIZATION. WHY? Facts & Theories: "Aoyama specified that the name of the boss has appeared somewhere in the manga" - It is widely known that Eri Kisaki is the counterpart of ELLERY QUEEN, therefore: Queen (the character) is highlighted in volume 11 of the Case Closed manga's edition of "Gosho Aoyoma's Mystery Library, a section of the graphic novels (usually the last page) where the author introduces a different detective (or occasionally, a villain) from mystery literature, television, or other media. The character Heiji Hattori also mentioned that he prefers Ellery Queen to Arthur Conan Doyle in volume 12. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellery_Queen) Is this it? Highly Probable.. Gosho Aoyama’s unique style is superb.. This classic literary form of “Foreshadowing” or “Red Herring” is what makes this manga series so addictive.. Indeed, we are always misled every time that we hardly see connections in small matters such as these… “Nanatsu no Ko (七つの子, lit. Seven children or Child of seven), is a popular Japanese children's song written by Ujō Noguchi (野口雨情 Noguchi Ujō). The Black Organization leader uses this song to encode his/her phone number.” A bit far-fetched Theory here: The Mouri Family had a tragedy 10 years ago since the first episode that torn their life asunder… Ran Mouri was 16 years old in the 1st chapter.. so it can be concluded that she was 6 years old(turning 7)at that time.. Or… It represents the Nearly Seven Years of Ran’s life in their family.. I think that this is the reason why Eri uses this phone number.. As a REMEMBRANCE of the family she had. Following on that, The reason Kogorou left the police force is the mystery here… Is it just because of guilt for shooting her wife? I think not. I think that, most likely, before that point, Kogorou became aware of Eri’s involvement w/ the Black Organization. Also may be Eri wanted Kogorou to shoot her during that tragedy, as atonement of her sins and also to save Ran’s life. However, It didn’t happen… Seeing that they’ll never be what was once they used to be, Eri left Kogorou. On the other hand, Kogorou left the police force because he can’t bear the thought of turning in his beloved wife.. “It looks like I have given you too much freedom. Come back to my side, Vermouth.„ — The Boss orders Vermouth to return. One of the most intriguing quotes for me… First, Let us establish Eri’s connection to Vermouth. Eri is a friend and rival of Yukiko Kudo, who is also a friend of Vermouth. Therefore: It’s not impossible that Eri doesn’t know Vermouth personally. Thus, the fact that Vermouth is protecting Conan and Ran perfectly fits. Her friend’s son and her boss’ daughter is what makes her very interested in those two. Midori Kuriyama (Eri’s assistant) maybe another persona of Vermouth. Thus, Eri calling Vermouth (Midori) to come back her side is very plausible… “The boss is very careful. Vermouth says, “The boss is always careful to the extreme. He’s the type to ruin the plan by overthinking it.” As everyone knows, Eri is very intelligent and always serious at important matters. Also, Ellery Queen (her counterpart) is known to be an “over-analytical” person. Thus, once again it fits. The fact that she never loses against her trial cases proves this quality of hers. “If the FBI's assessment of the boss is correct, the boss is a forward thinker. The FBI believed he ordered the assassination of Yasuteru Domon who wasn't even part of the Diet yet because he was hard on crime and had a chance of becoming the next Prime Minister.” Eri is a just person. Yes, being the boss of the Black Organization may be contradicting to that aspect but it is still probable. We don’t know anything about Eri’s past so we cannot simply erase her known qualities. Being a lawyer, I really thinks she lives a double life.. And the thought of a corrupt official being the Prime Minister is probably not an option for her. SO WHY DID SHE ORDERED GIN TO KILL MOURI? The most logical thing to think is that she knows someone will stop Gin. Vermouth is there. Conan is there. And Akai is there. (who knows? Maybe she whistleblowed to Akai?) But due to Gin’s nature, Mouri almost died. This shows the human aspect of the BOSS. Just because The Boss is the Boss doesn’t mean he’s perfect.. Other things: -she’s a sherlockian ( shelling ford= password in pisco case) -> makes it very possible. - Speculated that Haibara will be surprised when she know who the boss is… (of course, anyone will be surprised. This maybe another misdirection by gosho aoyama. He didn’t emphasized that “Haibara will be the only one surprised”) -Haibara and Eri haven’t met yet in the whole series. There’s a bunch more that I don’t want to say coz’ im not sure yet. I’m just 17 but am really a fan of this series. Add me as a friend. Lol.. I HOPE THIS HELPED A LOT. ANY COMMENTS, ADD-ONS, AND VIOLENT REACTIONS IS RECOMMENDED. THANK YOU.

Anyway, I'm new here.. The primary reason I went here is.. RESEARCH. I got this crazy-ass theory that (*thumbs-up to the OP) ERI KISAKI is either a member or the boss of the BLACK ORGANIZATION. WHY? Facts & Theories: "Aoyama specified that the name of the boss has appeared somewhere in the manga" - It is widely known that Eri Kisaki is the counterpart of ELLERY QUEEN, therefore: Queen (the character) is highlighted in volume 11 of the Case Closed manga's edition of "Gosho Aoyoma's Mystery Library, a section of the graphic novels (usually the last page) where the author introduces a different detective (or occasionally, a villain) from mystery literature, television, or other media. The character Heiji Hattori also mentioned that he prefers Ellery Queen to Arthur Conan Doyle in volume 12. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellery_Queen) Is this it? Highly Probable.. Gosho Aoyama’s unique style is superb.. This classic literary form of “Foreshadowing” or “Red Herring” is what makes this manga series so addictive.. Indeed, we are always misled every time that we hardly see connections in small matters such as these… “Nanatsu no Ko (七つの子, lit. Seven children or Child of seven), is a popular Japanese children's song written by Ujō Noguchi (野口雨情 Noguchi Ujō). The Black Organization leader uses this song to encode his/her phone number.” A bit far-fetched Theory here: The MouriFamily had a tragedy 10 years ago since the first episode that torn their life asunder…Ran Mouri was16 years old in the 1st chapter.. so it can be concluded that she was 6 years old(turning 7)at that time.. Or… It represents the Nearly Seven Years of Ran’s life in their family.. I think that this is the reason why Eri uses this phone number.. As a REMEMBRANCE of the family she had. Following on that, The reason Kogorou left the police force is the mystery here… Is it just because of guilt for shooting her wife? I think not. I think that, most likely, before that point, Kogorou became aware of Eri’s involvement w/ theBlack Organization. Also may be Eri wanted Kogorou to shoot her during that tragedy, as atonement of her sins and also to save Ran’s life. However, It didn’t happen… Seeingthat they’ll never be what was once they used to be, Eri left Kogorou. On the other hand, Kogorou left the police force because he can’t bear the thought of turning in his beloved wife.. “It looks like I have given you too much freedom. Come back to my side, Vermouth.„ — The Boss orders Vermouth to return. One of the most intriguing quotes for me… First, Let us establish Eri’s connection to Vermouth. Eri is a friend and rival of Yukiko Kudo, who is also a friend of Vermouth. Therefore: It’s not impossible that Eri doesn’t know Vermouth personally. Thus, the fact that Vermouth is protecting Conan and Ran perfectly fits. Her friend’s son and her boss’ daughter is what makes her very interested in those two. Midori Kuriyama (Eri’s assistant) maybe another persona of Vermouth. Thus, Eri calling Vermouth (Midori) to come back her side is very plausible… “The boss is very careful. Vermouth says, “The boss is always careful to the extreme. He’s the type to ruin the plan by overthinking it.” As everyone knows, Eri is very intelligent and always serious at important matters. Also, Ellery Queen (her counterpart) is known to be an “over-analytical” person. Thus, once again it fits. The fact that she never loses against her trial cases proves this quality of hers. “If the FBI's assessment of the boss is correct, the boss is a forward thinker. The FBI believed he ordered the assassination of Yasuteru Domon who wasn't even part of the Diet yet because he was hard on crime and had a chance of becoming the next Prime Minister.” Eri is a just person. Yes, being the boss of the Black Organization may be contradicting to that aspect but it is still probable. We don’t know anything about Eri’s past so we cannot simply erase her known qualities. Being a lawyer, I really thinks she lives a double life.. And the thought of a corrupt official being the Prime Minister is probably not an option for her. SO WHY DID SHE ORDERED GIN TO KILL MOURI? The most logical thing to think is that she knows someone will stop Gin. Vermouth is there. Conan is there. And Akai is there. (who knows? Maybe she whistleblowed to Akai?) But due to Gin’s nature, Mouri almost died. This shows the human aspect of the BOSS. Just because The Boss is the Boss doesn’t mean he’s perfect.. Other things: -she’s a sherlockian ( shelling ford= password in pisco case) -> makes it very possible. - Speculated that Haibara will be surprised when she know who the boss is… (of course, anyone will be surprised. This maybe another misdirection by gosho aoyama. He didn’t emphasized that “Haibara will be the only one surprised”) -Haibara and Eri haven’t met yet in the whole series. There’s a bunch more that I don’t want to say coz’ im not sure yet. I’m just 17 but am really a fan of this series. Add me as a friend. Lol.. I HOPE THIS HELPED A LOT. ANY COMMENTS, ADD-ONS, AND VIOLENT REACTIONS IS RECOMMENDED. THANK YOU.