DCUniverseAficionado

Which is Gosho's intent—so props to him.

It'd be a better opportunity than most.

I don't think so—I think she and Kogoro have directly interacted more than she and Heiji... and her involvement with Kogoro basically consists of that one case (925–927/822–823)... heck, I even think she's mentioned Kogoro more than Heiji... though she has Heiji's voice as her ringtone, last we checked (909–912/808–809).

Well, at the very least, if that guestbook in the Mermaid case (279–283/222–224) ever comes up again, we'll know something's up. Oh, boy... if he got made a fool of, there... Indeed. Well, if that's so, I'd have to dock her points for not being able to multitask, in this situation. Eh, the ones teased during the Vermouth arc and during Scarlet Showdown are good enough for me. Yeah, I get that concern—I've seen displeasure at the classic characters being left on idle while the new characters take the spotlight. But in this case? I think Vermouth's fine as she is—she's already enmeshed in things pretty substantially. She's already got grudges against important BO figures, or has relationships of discontent and discord, past and present. Vermouth's always going to have a role to play—she's not in danger as a character—and now we potentially have a vengeful fugitive, on the run from the BO for 17 years, looking to make Rum pay for taking away the life of someone precious to her. Vermouth's already got the cold-blooded and even vengeful part of her personality, and has people precious to her. Why not have this new character be a wild card, choosing vengeance over the pursuit of justice (Shinichi/Conan) or the escape that is death (Shiho/Ai), who has no current affiliation or loyalties, to ideals, government, or a criminal organization? Certainly fits Gosho's dangling thread (of plot and character development) style. But again, even that case left so much unsaid—it's still pretty vague, with room for later follow-up. I'll be waiting for the first pages of 990 (or, if there's nothing there, the first file of the next case, and so on) for reference to her sense suddenly activating for the first time in 170 Files or so. But even though she must've panicked in that moment, and when Rumi seemed to be blind in her right eye, she ultimately told Shinichi/Conan to stop talking about it in a manner defensive of Rumi. Whether Rumi is Vermouth or not, she may have thought that since Rumi still hadn't made a move against her, Rumi had no intention of making such a move against her. Maybe Shiho's/Ai's sense is triggered by malevolent intent and something that happens only to those in the BO's ranks. If even lower ranked members can give off that particular scent (and we still don't know if only Shiho/Ai has this ability or not), then what is this process that marks them with this musk?

Well, I'll definitely consider her at that level if she turns out to be disguised as Rumi. Until then, though, those two instances of her failing to meet her objective because of Shinichi/Conan (429–434/345 and 818–824/701–704), for me, put her in a lower echelon. Ah, so we're not talking about Mary. Gotcha. Silver Bullet? We know very little, certainly. That's why I won't be too incredulous if a character shows up and is eventually revealed to have been shrunk by Silver Bullet in the past. So... do you think he's Anokata? I just thought it was a good place for that namedrop, regardless of who Rumi turns out to be. I don't think she's overcome her desire to see Shiho/Ai die, though. If Rumi is revealed to be Vermouth, I'm gonna ask where Vermouth gained the capacity to resist such an easy opportunity to get what she wanted (and no, it's not that promise—vague words can easily be skirted around)—she just has to arrange things just right, behind the scenes, and get the right situation set up, and she'd get away with it. Especially if she's suddenly Shinichi's/Conan's equal. There probably would've been more a deadpan delivery than a creepy one, on her part, if that was the case. Look, I just see her eyes during those intense scenes, and it just gives me the feel of a different character—and Rumi being a different character is my preference. Vermouth's already complex and all that—no need to be gratuitous with that at the expense of a new character, when Vermouth's already quite popular. I'll roll with it if your theory turns out to be true, but it's just not my preference. Eh, that just struck me as the first hint of what we now see quite often from Shiho/Ai—her becoming accustomed to a normal life (well, normal as much the world of DC can be when you're around Shinichi Kudo/Conan Edogawa, as he pursues a criminal organization that can turn you into a child). When Shinichi/Conan says, in that case, "I thought you were able to smell the members of the Organization," he doesn't say "all members," he just says "the members." Who knows what those abilities of hers were like, before she shrunk?

Eh, I think there's a limit to how long that startlement would last, in terms of if affecting her ability to take him on. Because Subaru is Shuichi, and Shuichi was always shown to be Shinichi's/Conan's equal (at least, that's how I took it). Thus, I get some instances of him outdoing Shinichi/Conan. Vermouth never struck me as Shinichi's/Conan's equal—she's 0 for 2 in trying to kill Shiho/Ai, while he's only 0 and 1 in trying to catch her. Oh, but now she's a case solver who can beat Shinichi/Conan to the punch? And what's with this testing of Shinichi/Conan? She already knows how smart he is. But considering that was all Shinichi/Conan needed to then solve the case, I assume that she already figured the rest out. That's what I'm ultimately not for, in terms of this theory. It means to me that she was holding back during the Vermouth arc climax (and I mean even more than her holding back by trying to make sure Shinichi/Conan was not harmed or killed)—in effect, keeping herself from a higher chance of achieving her goal... and there's no hint she was holding back any intelligence, that she was smarter than she seemed, then. I guess we'll just have to wait to hear when Mary was shrunk. Her case is already different, because she was in her late 40s/50s when she was shrunk. Oh, it's in the manga... strange I didn't remember that. Well, that's a scene we may very well see as we get closer to the end of DC... better keep an eye out for characters seen at the angle of that man, and compare them to this panel from File 351. But a case from 17 years ago? In America? Namedropping "Sharon Vineyard" would be perfect for that (red herring hint or otherwise). "Anything Vermouth-related" is pretty vague, compared to that, lacking in the time period and geography. I still would've expected, if she turns out to be Rumi, for Vermouth to have actually alluded to Koji and the case, especially since the main theme of that case was an old grudge from the past. But not enough to try to indirectly weasel out of it—at least at the time of Mystery Train, killing Shiho/Ai mattered more to her than her promise to Shinichi/Conan. Who knows, that may have changed, but, just like with her not referencing Koji during A Song Called ASACA, she doesn't hint that she's no longer going to try to kill Shiho/Ai, even in a scenario where she easily could. His were closed because if he opened them, it'd be apparent who he was. I was talking about her wide-open eyes—they're not the same thing as Shuichi/Subaru keeping his eyes shut. And that's what I'm waiting for—those answers about her past. But there is so much we still don't know about this sense of hers, or where this BO sense came from, to begin with, and why she can pick it but. It hasn't been confirmed that she won't sense anyone that she's never met. Until she literally says that to Shinichi/Conan, we can't say that she can only sense certain people. But it probably wouldn't be a random feeling that she picked up—a feeling of strong negative emotion(s).

In that particular situation? Maybe, but even so, it was very unwise of her (and even more so if she's as intelligent as Rumi comes off to me). Perhaps not Heiji, specifically, but it would've been wiser for her to anticipate a 3rd and 4th compatriot of Shinichi's/Conan's (and, again, even more so if she's as intelligent as Rumi comes off to me). Even if you solely attribute it to luck, he was standing on more solid ground than her (looming specter of the BO above Shinichi/Conan and everyone connected to him aside). Her job entails situations like this—Shinichi's/Conan's a civilian. Intellects, aside, she's the one with tons of experience, and the capability to have more experience than pretty much everyone else. No need to go any further than that when it's Shinichi/Conan you're hinting. But, again, it's him she's hinting. So, suddenly, Vermouth has jumped from smart but below his level to smart and above his level. In the 10 cases she's appeared in since the Full Moon Showdown, I don't think there's been any indication that she's gotten that smart. During this period, she even got outwitted again with a less elaborate and more impromptu, riskier plan by Shinichi/Conan. Let's be clear—she's by no means dumb... but she's not at that level. Ah, those theories... I get where they come from, but... there's just no precedent. Unless it's revealed that Mary was shrunk 6-8 years ago and then grew from a elementary schooler into a middle schooler... and I really don't consider that a likely outcome, by any stretch. Whether Asaka turns out to be Rumi or not, I think we can agree on that. Oh, you mean just like how Atsushi was shown in the anime, but not in the manga, Vermouth visiting her husband's grave was shown in the anime, but not in the manga. Eh, maybe—it just seems to me that they'd have to be lovers, and/or Koji would've had to have done something for her like Shinichi and Ran did during Golden Apple. Well, he'd better do so soon—only 10 chapters remain until DC hits quadruple digits... if Rumi is Vermouth, I would've expected Sharon Vineyard namedrops and more mysterious expressions and reactions from her during A Song Called "ASACA" (954–957), considering why she and Rei/Toru/Bourbon are there. You mean you think Post-Coma Hyoue is actually Tsutomu Akai? That's my long-shot prediction, too. Eh, I'm not that sure... her efforts to kill Shiho/Ai seemed really personal (and recent, with Mystery Train (818–824/701–704)... which really wasn't that long ago, in terms of where we are, now)... and, for her part, Shiho/Ai must've feared and hated Vermouth. The way her eyes are drawn during the intense parts... they don't seem to be drawn in the way Gosho draws the western eyes that characters like Vermouth have... they seem so hostile... even for Gin. So beady, and... like a scribbled tempest (best I can describe it, at the moment). It just strikes me as someone else—I'd prefer an actual new character have this distinctive edge, rather than it just be another side of Vermouth in her 2nd sensei disguise. The only female BO members we've had are: Shiho/Sherry, Akemi, Elena, Hidemi/Rena/Kir, Chianti, and Vermouth. That's six, with half of them being Miyanos—2 are dead, 1 is a traitor, 1 is a NOC, and 1 has questionable loyalty, leaving only 1 loyal member. Comparatively, there are 13 male BO members—7 dead, 1 escaped, 1 a former NOC, 1 a current NOC, and 3 loyal members. Shiho/Ai hasn't met so many of the BO's members, including Chianti, the only currently living and completely loyal member. Who knows, maybe this is indicative that this must be Vermouth... but maybe this could be someone she's never met, but someone who carries that implacable musk. If Rumi isn't Vermouth, then she has her own past. How'd she end up a bodyguard? How'd she get so strong and smart? What's her exact connection to Koji? There would need to be some explanations... including whether or not something happened to her that left her with that scent (a scent that we haven't anyone else beside Shiho/Ai detect, so we don't know if only she can detect it).

She shouldn't need hints—she knows Conan's true identity. She knows who his mother is. She knows his mother's capabilities. Therefore, she should've been prepared for Shinichi/Conan to utilize Yukiko's disguising skills. All knowing entity? Nope. I'm just saying that those smart enough to hint Shinichi/Conan of all people should be smarter than she came off during the Vermouth arc climax (again, she's smarter than most of DC's cast, but I don't think she's at the uppermost echelon... hence why I find it difficult to believe that she can suddenly hint Shinichi/Conan). Oh, he didn't get lucky. He knew that, since the BO itself hadn't already made a move on him, Vermouth wasn't out to kill him. Vermouth was the one who got lucky, here. Actually, that device worked for his backup plan as well as his initial plan—in fact, the backup had a greater chance of getting him what he wanted—Vermouth was incredibly careless to text Anokata before making sure that he didn't have any more aces up his sleeve. Indeed, it was debunked—for me, I never really took that theory that seriously, so that case was just the final, "it's obviously not that," for me—thanks for correcting my assumption that you still held that position. If they haven't been already, will Asaka be introduced soon, then? But if they have, then who is it? Could Koji be the dead husband that Sharon mentioned during Golden Apple (350–354/286–288)? Regardless of whether they were romantically involved, I'm surprised Gosho hasn't namedropped Sharon Vineyard somewhere in these past 40 Files. Then I'd be more on board with your theory. I'm surprised that Vermouth hasn't taken this chance to kill Shiho/Ai. It's the best chance she's had, in the whole series. She went around her own promise, before, because it was Shiho/Ai. Especially since Shiho/Ai has now let her guard down, I'm going to wonder why she doesn't do so, from every case onwards. Connected to the BO? Sure. Knows about the artificial eye. Sure. Connected to Koji? Sure. Still doesn't convince me why it's then more likely that she's Vermouth, and not as likely why she's not Asaka.

But even if that's her motivation, she's risking unintentionally aiding him. It's still a murder perpetrated by the BO that's tied to the BO's #2 that she wants him to help her with. So far, it seems to me that she's only been willing to aid him by merely not giving him up to the BO. If she's Rumi, she'd be butting into the Rum arc, and stealing the spotlight, simply showing that she's even more unloyal to the BO than already indicated. And her motivation for this bucking of the trend is only a case from 17 years ago? I would expect a case she's personally invested in to be from 20+ years ago, and for it to be revealed—and for Shinichi/Conan to then find out about it—later on in the story (at the very least, past File 1000). I'd rather see a new character than Vermouth in disguise. If she's as smart as Rumi seems to be (hinting Shinichi/Conan to solve a murder case), then I see no reason she couldn't have predicted that. If she'd realized that Conan was Shinichi, then surely she could predict that her old friend, his mother, would aid him with the skill they'd learned together. It'd be even more foolish of her to underestimate his intelligence like that. She had a stroke of luck fall her way when Shiho/Ai arrived, then Ran took that away—apart from that, she was completely outsmarted by Shinichi/Conan, in that particular situation. She foolishly texted the boss, clearly not predicting that he would've prepared for his initial plan to go awry. And I don't count that sleeping gas phone—she should always have something like that, right? I doubt it was an item she only brought for, and used in, that particular situation. Shinichi's/Conan's heart monitor and recorder, on the other hand—now that's something he would've only brought for that situation. Bottom line—Vermouth has come off to me as being below Shinichi's/Conan's intellectual level (she is smarter than most, yes... but in terms of facing off against the top tier intellects in DC... not so much). Therefore, I find it doubtful that Rumi, someone who figured out the solution to a murder and then hinted Shinichi/Conan to solving it, is actually her in disguise. Considering her determination, at the time, to do away with Shiho/Ai, there's no way she'd hold back her intelligence and let Shinichi/Conan beat her—if she was as smart as I find Rumi to be, Shiho/Ai would be dead. Oh, that's right—for you, Mary is Asaka, correct? So Vermouth was not at the hotel when the murder happened?... then how did she get that piece of glass? So Vermouth was genuinely relieved that Ayumi was alright, to the point of tears? If you say she was only acting psychotic so Hyoue could grab the culprit from behind, I'm fine with that. Vermouth never struck me as psychotic... unless she's using that cool, collected assassin aura she gives off as a cover for the damaged, broken person that she really is, inside. I, too, can theorize and speculate and not have the enjoyment taken out of it, because of it—glad to hear you can, as well.

Nope, still don't buy it—and I won't until we get a panel of Rumi pulling her "face" off to reveal Vermouth's, or we get Vermouth in background overlay beside Rumi (like how she was in background overlay while disguised as Azusa (954–957)). Then you can do whatever victory flourish you will. This goes way beyond allowing Shinichi/Conan to target the BO by not telling them about him—this is straight up aid to Shinichi/Conan. There's been no prior indication of her being willing to do anything more than let him work out of the BO's sight. If she's really been this smart all along, she should've already solved it, and she should not have been outwitted by Shinichi/Conan before (429–434/345). Especially when she seemed so determined to kill Shiho/Ai. And this would mean that Vermouth is Asaka, right? So, for some reason, the boss/anokata sent 2 members to deal with Amanda, but Vermouth... fell in love?... and wanted to get back at Rum? I'd rather have a new character than Vermouth doing her disguise schtick again... and she's crying for Ayumi, now? When is she acting, and when is she showing her real self?

I think it was this case: Manga (File 635–File 637) http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Volume_61#Sports_Car_Arson_Case Anime (Episode 524–Episode 525) http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/The_Blue_Spark_of_Hate

Nah, it's cool. You can never be as sure as you may like unless you ask, right?

Nah, my response wasn't about him bluffing. I just thought there was a possibility that he may only know that, say, Vermouth and Anokata are family members... in other words, it may be that he doesn't know if they were siblings or parent and child—he would just know that they're family. But you'll notice I put "may" in italics—the reason is, there's a higher chance that he knows the whole thing. If he does know the whole thing, then him eventually telling someone, in a file—thus telling us—is very much an anticipated ting.

Apologies for the double post, but I feel this warranted its own post... ...988 spoiler pics are out: EDIT: We were simultaneous, huh?... should've known...

And we haven't seen NPA characters, really (besides Rei/Toru). So who knows who, specifically, Hyoue heard this from (if it wasn't Rei/Toru)—we don't even know the specific source that began this rumor. Though it could be argued that where he got the info that Shinichi/Conan was pretty smart doesn't really matter.

Well, if it is the Nagano PD he was referring to when he said, then there you have it. That'll do, as an explanation—no need for lying. And if there is another party he's in contact with, it can be for another reason than getting word about Shinichi's/Conan's intellect.

I will say that we haven't seen enough of the inner workings of the police to know if rumors spread about Shinichi/Conan—in other words, we haven't had scenes where, say, someone like Kiyonaga talks to a higher up (or a group of higher-ups) about Shinichi/Conan—and reached a higher level of authority and were then taken seriously... therefore, if you say he was lying when he said that he heard from higher up police about Shinichi/Conan, and, actually, he heard it from elsewhere, and we'll eventually have his actual source revealed, I get where that's coming from.