DetectiveSherry

But Vermouth said "if you(Sherry) want to blame, blame your parents who started this foolish research". She didn't say "your parents who took over this foolish research" but said "who started". So I think it's the Miyanos who did a research which resulted in Vermouth having sttoped aging. I guess her anger has something to do with her aging problem and that she has a hatred toward the Miyanos. So you agree to the idea that her switching has nothing to do with her crime 20 years ago? And I think the reason Jodie was at Sharon's funeral is because Sharon is such a big star and so Jodie might have got an interest to attend her funeral. If she had already noticed that the FBI was investigating her she shouldn't have had time to play two roles at the same time for the reason I discussed before. My point is that she could indeed escape from the FBI by the switching but that's not what she had intended. I'm sorry to have made you comfused. My direct question is How the BO specifically could help Sharon to make a debut? In Kir's case it was to falsify a resume and in Chris's case it was just to show her as a second generation actress. I mean usually people should have some entertaiment careers before they get a chance of screen debut.But as for a talent or skill needed to debut on screen, I think I was too realistic considering this point. You offered various cases which demonstrate Vermouth's competency and I thought Dr Araide's case has its sense. I came to realise that after all it is quite difficult to assert specifically that what is the possible and what is the impossible in a DC world. For example there is a problem that Ai and Conan could enter an elementary school when they don't have an extract of their family register. Now come to think of it that's just for convenience to the author and is showing that however weird it may look that kind of things could happen on DC. But seeing the way Sharon was speaking, how the air change when Ran said "I have to thank God a lot", and the way Gosyo described the scene, I think she was not in an ironic mood. And though there is no evidence what the line(Shouldn't all honest hard working people be happy) refers to I think anyway Vermouth had been honest and working hard before she joined the BO. So the project had started when she drank in some medicine or before that. Then there's no time contradiction and no problem regarding the timeframe. Well I meant since there is Yukiko, who could question on Sharon's words about her daughter She cannot tell a lie and I descrobed that "Her words can be assured by Yukiko". And since the script writer didn't fix the point through yukiko it can be said that the timing is also a fact.

Thank you for summing up your argument. I've read through it and now I think I appreciate the reason 1. I'll give up the Vermouth became younger theory and support the Vermouth stopped aging theory. So it follows that it had been decided that Vermouth has to change her identity when she stopped aging and Chris also has to switch her cover to her daughter or someone when she reached to around 50 like Sharon, right? And so she cannot live her life as one person... Oh that's pitty. She must be angry with the Dr. Miyano's research. I like it. That makes sense. But I disagree to the reason 2. I still doubt the FBI was involved in her switching. You mean it's not the reason she's decided to change her identity but just increased the need to do so right? But I even doubt the possibility for the following reasons. My previous posts were rather ambiguous so I'll be more specific in my argument this time . The theory that the FBI's investigation increased her switching need, it entailes that 1)Vermouth was aware of the possibility that2)the FBI has identifed some of her crimes as her doing before her switching. I doubt this in two ways. First, I'll discuss the part 1)Vermouth was aware of the possibility that the FBI has identified some of her crimes as her doing before her switching.　The reason that I find this unlikely is because she didn't extinguish Sharon before she switched to Chris.　If Vermouth as Sharon had already noticed that her crimes were revealed by the FBI she firstly should think of faking Sharon's death since there is a possibility that sharon might be arrested by the FBI, which threatens her life and also might result in the BO's existance being exposed to the public. How could she be that easygoing not to fake Sharon's death when she's aware of the possibility. You said "It might not have been convenient to the BO for Vermouth to lose her ability to move in high society. " but it seems like that's not inconvenient to the BO because Vermouth as Chris is actually taking a rest now from her cover life. In Pisco's case when she said "I wanna rest for a while. I'll stay in Japan. There are some things that I need to take care of." Gin and Vodka didn't stop it. It seems like her acting life is not a order from the BO but she's doing it on her own decidson making. Well, I assumed "Sharon" when I said "she". I agree to the idea that Vermouth's double duty period was to make a separate identity for Chris since it's suspicious if one person disappreared and then someone new appears but I doubt that this is to make it harder for the FBI to reveal her switching. Second, I'll discuss the part 2)Vermouth was aware of the possibility that the FBI has identified some of her crimes as her doing before her switching. As for her crime 20 years ago, the FBI(Jodie) first laid an eye on Vermouth as Chris when Jodie heard Vermouth's cathing phrase" A secret makes a woman woman." and considering the age contradiction they connected Chris to her mother Sharon Vinyard and confirmed that the crime 20 years ago was actually Sharon's doing. So that was after Vermouth switched to Chris and has nothing to do with her switching. And it's unlikely that the FBI had already suspected Sharon for the crime 20 years ago since if that's the case it follows that Vermouth as Sharon had already been arrested. I don't know what is required specifically to issue an arrest warrent but it seems like fingerprint matching is enough to do that. In Halloween Party case Jodie said "That's how I finally found the proof that could explain the mysterious fact(age contradiction) that prevented your arrest." So fingerprint macthing can enable the FBI to issue an arrest warrent. Unlike Chris, Sharon is not too young to have commited a crime 20 years ago and Jodie has a fingerprint on her father's glassees as a proof. Thus I doubt the part 2)the FBI has identified some of her crimes as her doing before her switching　And regarding her other crimes, even if the FBI don't have a proof(needed to issue an arrest warrent) to identify some past crimes as Sharon's doing the BO wouldn't allow her to keep Sharon identity if she was already in the process of being arrested. I thought it's their way to erase whoever could threatens the BO's existance. I agree to the Vermouth stopped aging theory but I doubt which happeded 50 years ago in two ways. Firstly the above theory entails that "Sharon" hadn't existed but I find that weird. My point was a background as one's history and not a background as one's speciality when I said "it's weird that a star appears out of nowhere". Kir could use a resume to assure her background as Mizunashi Rena, who also hadn't existed. So it doesn't matter if "Mizunashi Rena" hadn't existed. Also the resume was revealed to be a cleverly disguised one later according to the FBI. So bacically the BO couldn't actually create one's background but they could just think of a good tricking way. On the other hand I think there's no resume in an entertaiment world. Suddenly a person appears in the world and make a debut on screen...? How could have she done that? That's where I have a question. What I feel weird is the phenomenon itself. I mean one should have some career before that. Seeing the way Sharon was speaking about her debut in a NY case I think Sharon's part on screen debut was not a tiny like without a line but rather big, at least memorable one, if not a lead part. Also I think she wasn't lying when she said " My parents died on the day I debued, for which I'd had a tough time." After all I doubt that someone can make a screen debut without any training in advance. For me a TV personality job seems just ordinary and anyone could do the job such as interviewing a person and reading a script before a camera, which doesn't need a talent or skill. You might have felt the surplus in this argument. This is where my conviction is. Sharon once said that "if there is such an existance as god shouldn't all honest hard working people be happy?" This is terriblly beside the point if we assume the speaker is a criminal. She should be killing a lot who are honest and working hard like Jodie's father. So I'm guessing that she was expressing herself when she was saying this line. Vermouth should have been honest and working hard before she joined the BO and I think that this line reffers to the period when she was getting an acting training before her debut on screen. Secondly the theory includes Sharon's mom is Vermouth but if that's the case the time frame doesn't make sense. I think differently. The BO's project seems to have begun over 50 years ago but if that's something to do with the Vermouth stopped aging then that doesn't make sense. Vermouth as Sharon's mom must have been around 30 when she drank some medicine and stopped aging because she's now around that age. The manga says Chris Vinyard age 29 so whatever your perception tells you Vermouth is now 29 years old in this series' setting. But it takes 5 - 10 years(I think at least 10 years) for an adult to notice that one isn't aging at all. So when she and the BO realised that she isn't aging Vermouth must have been around 35 - 40 as Sharon's mom. And then the project had started but I think Vermouth kept Sharon's mom identity until she reached to around 50 since Vermouth kept Sharon's identity until that age, which I think means it is around 50 that makeup for disguising will be harder. So it was after 10 - 15 years after the project had started that Vermouth switched her cover to Sharon. And then how old did Vermouth set Sharon as for her age? She is around 30 but it doesn't matter if she set herself her late 20's, that could expand the period of being Sharon and hence save her swithing times. So let's just say that Vermouth created Sharon at the age of 25. Then there's more than 40 - 35 years left until the current timeline. And if we add the period to the age 25 it entails that sharon must be over 60 - 65 years old in the current timeline. However Sharon is around 50 and thus [the BO project and Vermouth noticed her aging stop at the same time theory] doesn't make sense. I think Sharon is under 60. I thought I proved the timing is also a fact. If that was not clear enough I'll be more specific in this. Sharon:"Can you believe it? My daughter was standing in front of my husband's grave disguised as him. Yukiko:"Ah if I recall you were sayng that your daughter beged you to give her a disguising lesson. Sharon: "I haven't met her since then. It's been about 10 years..." If it's only Sharon's word it could be a lie but this time her words are assured by Yukiko. If Sharon's word "it's been about 10 years" was a lie then Yukiko would question on this. It doesn't make sense if she says she's been out of contact with her daughter for 10 years when she had contact with her and told her friend about it within 10 years.

Shiho and Saguru as a couple? Was there a scene where the two had contact to each other? Since I've never seen them being together I cannot take to the idea though they have some similarities as you pointed. But I do love AiCon and ShinShi as a paring. too bad that these parins couldn't be made...they are so cute. And it's a pitty that Ai has no one as a spouse. She is such an attractive character. Mituhiko seems to have a romantic feeling toward her but I don't like the paring.

So just to make it clear, you've given up your rebutals to my argument below? It seems like you are changing your side of argument as the discussion continues. Your argument is not coherent and I'm confused for that. So at the point of your second quoted post, you've already given up your first rebutal that Vermouth took a public form as Chris because that would make it harder for the FBI to investigate her crime 20 years ago and you were thinking that switching to Chris has nothing to do with her crime 20 years ago? Also you suddenly changed your opinion that "Vermouth as Sharon knew she was being investigated for her past crimes. By switching to Chris she has a clean record again." to that "she knew the FBI and Jodie were investigating Chris as part of the Black Org, but not necessarily the same agent of the Black Org as Sharon". The two of those are not relavent to each other. I'm confused. You previously said that Vermouth as Sharon switched to Chris in order to get a clean record. That means Vermouth noticed that the FBI was investigating Sharon and not Chris, right? But the next time you said she noticed that the FBI was investigating Chris and not Sharon. So you think that Vermouth changing identity has something to do with the crimes by Chris and not with those by Sharon? But that doesn't make sense. Vermouth switched from Sharon to Chris and not the opposite. But the idea of changing identity for escaping needs the fact that she noticed she was already being marked by the FBI and if Vermouth was aware that "Sharon" was being investigated by them, her first thing should be to erase "Sharon" from the world. Or there would be a possibility that she might be arrested soon since the FBI was already chasing Sharon. It's the next thing to create another form she'll take in the public and if she worries that the FBI might realize this switching she could just take some years off as for her public life and just spend her time as a BO's agent. It's more important and urgent that she might be arrested than that her switching might be revealed. Even if the FBI find out the secret and ran a fingerprint experiment they still cannot prove that they are the same person because of the gap in their age(they actually had trouble of doing that). So it's not necessary to have a time of Sharon and Chris both appearing. Seems like the way I picked up words was bad. I'll review the previous discussion. In my first post I said it's weird that a star(Sharon) appears out of nowhere. Then you insisted that Chris had also appeared just after her mother died and why Sharon couldn't appeare the same way. So I said that's because Chris had a star as her mother but Sharon didn't and instead she debuted after a tough time and succeeded on her own. Here I misunderstood that with the word "appear" you are refferring to the "debut" of the two characters. Instead you seem to have assumed the similarity in Sharon's debut and Chris's "debut" as her open privet life. However, what I intended to do was to point out the weirdness of Sharon's mom-Vermouth theory which entails that "Sharon" hadn't existed. Then to prove it I offered the issue of Sharon's debut story and getting your question, compared it to that of Chris. So it doesn't matter how Chris begin to reveal her private life and so I said debuing and beggining to disclose one's private life is different. What I assumed was Vermouth's appearing as to her public life and not as to her private one. I'm not sure if I'm still describing my opinion above correctly...my poor English...tut tut... That's not what I meant. I didn't say Yukiko saw Chris talking to Sharon. I'll make my argument again. There was a conversation like this. Sharon: "Can you believe it? My daughter was standing in fromt of my husband's grave disguised as him. I haven't met her since then...it's been about 10 years." Yukiko: "Ah if I recall you were saying that your daughter beged you to give her a disguising lesson." Altough we cannot trust Sharon's words since she could be ling, we can still count on Yukiko's. So as of the first sentence by Yukiko there is a fact that Sharon said Yukiko that her daughter beged her to give a disguising lesson. The unbolded part could be a lie but the bolded part is a fact. Remember this point. What we know with this is just the fact that Sharon said Yukiko the above thing. And then if we consider Sharon's words and think logically we can take another fact from them, that Sharon said Yukiko that her daughter beged her to give her a disguising lesson at least about 10 years ago. To sum up there is a fact that Vermouth was creating or had already created "Chris Vinyard" about 10 years ago. You say it's to build Chris's backgraund up to creat the impression she is a real person(so according to this, it's not that she had created Chris but that she was creating her)　And you say it's to escape from the FBI that she swiched to Chris and that the reason she didn't extinguish Sharon before she created Chris was to make it harder for the FBI to reveal this swicthing. Then it follows that it's at least about 10 years ago that she noticed the FBI were investigating Sharon. But it's unlikely that Vermouth didn't fear the possibility that the FBI might catch and arrest her for at least about 10 years...that's too long.　 Were there a scene where Yukiko showed her ackowledgement of the fact that Sharon and Chris are the same person? As far as I recall, she just mumbled "Is that true, Sharon?"

Sorry if I get off the point. I misunderstood that you were talking about the similarity on the "debut" of Sharon and Chris. But I think that debuting and beginning to disclose a ptivate life are different things. Sharon debuted on the day her parents died. On the other hand, Chris had already debuted before Sharon died. I think I took her word correctly. Sharon said that "My parents died on the day I debuted, for which I'd had a tough time...(sneer) greatly different from my daughter, who debuted easily thanks to me." So if she wasn't lyng as for her debut she worked hard and gained her career on her own. By offering Sharon's word I just tried to prove that Sharon and Chris secceeded in the defferent way. If it was really to escape from the FBI that Vermouth changed her public face from Sharon to Chris, it is essential that she become younger and at the same time to extinguish Sharon, her old form because the FBI could connect Vermouth to Sharon and hence can arrest her. However, it seems like the former precedes the latter since Chris began to appeare in public, getting interviews and attending parties after Sharon died. That means Chris already existed as an actress prior to Sharon's death. She just began to disclose her private life (since there is no worry to overlap with Sharon) after Sharon died and had already debuted and was filming before that as Chris. That's why I think that changing identity has nothing to do with the FBI. But if she didn't know her past then how could have she suspected that the FBI connected Vermouth 20 years ago to Chris and then to Sharon? Also if she just noticed that she was being investigated by the FBI there is no reason she became younger. I said Vermouth wasn't aware of her being investigated when she moved to Japan to attend the ceremony. But she noticed them after she disguised herself as Dr Araide. I figured this way because Vermouth didn't notice that Dr Araide had been ptotected by the FBI and did not die in the car acccident. Yukiko said that "Ah if I recall you(Sharon) were saying that your daughter beged you to give her a disguising lesson." And Sharon said that "Can you believe it? My daughter was standing in fromt of my husband's grave disguised as him. I haven't met her since then...it's been about 10 years." Although we cannot trust Sharon's word we could still count on what Yukiko said. So Sharon mentioned her daughter's existence at least about 10 years ago. You seem to disagree with my opinion that her daughter really existed but then why would she tell her friend about her own daughter although there isn't the existance? That said, I'm suspecting that Vermouth had already become younger at that time and there wasn't her own daughter. She already lost her daughter but still was pretending to Yukiko that she was alive. Also if vermouth is Sharon's mom and drank something to stop aging, she should have been around her 30's at that time since she is now around that age. I think it takes 5 to 10 years for adults to notice that one isn't aging at all. So she and the BO menber noticed the drug's immortality or some kind of effect when she was 35 or more. Then if vermouth changed her mask from Sharon's mom to Sharon and hence "Sharon" didn't existed, "Sharon" which Vermouth created must have been over around 30. But I doubt it because of the picture in a file of a NY case. There is a picture of Sharon and Yukiko being with the magician and Sharon at the picture looked pretty young, 20 or more as for me. That depends on your perception and not convincing but take a look at it if you like. I read it on onemanga. And to Yellowglow, I skipped the episode where Fusae appeared so I cannot discuss that possibility. So again, what do you think?

So Vermouth was suspecting that someone(a girl from 20 years ago) could connect Vermouth at that time to Chris Vinyard and then to Sharon Vinyard? 2 steps were needed and the first one was rather a matter of luck. jodie started suspecting Chris luckily by hearing her catchphrase " A secret makes a woman woman". If she was cautious enough to suspect that the girl might associate the enemy who killed her father with Chris Vinyard, why did she give her catchphrase, which she gave the girl 20 years ago so carelessly? That doesn't make sense.

According to this theory, it follows that Vermouth had been aware that Jodie knew the fact that Sharon and Chris sre the same person. However it seems like she wasn't aware of it since she said in the episode 345 that she was surprised that a girl from 20 yeas before was actually Jodie and hence seems not to have imagined that her aging secret was known to others. She just noticed that the FBI was investigating her after she moved to Japan. That's a different case from Sharon's because Chris had become a star by using her mother's status. There was no need for her to have a career in the past. What was required of her was just the fact that she has a mother, Sharon, who is a big star. If you review the episode 286, Sharon said that her daughter had had an instant success unlike her. So Chris had appeared with a lot of fanfare and not with her own career. But, even if a person is goegeous and acts well, you still need a career to succeed, right? There is a lot who are gorgeous and act well but only those who have luck and had some career or connection like Chris can make it, I think. However according to what Sharon said during NY case(what I wrote in the above paragraph) she seems to have gained her career on her own and her mother was not a star like Chris's case. So I feel it's weird that Sharon appears and make a debut without any career in the past. I agree to this opinion. Based on what Sharon said, I'm guessing that Vermouth had drank APTX 4869 and taken her another public form as Chris 10 years ago. But why she took it? This is my speculaton but maybe she once had her own kid and mistakingly that kid drank APTX and died. Then she bacame hopeless and tried to commit suicide but unexpectedly she shrank like Conan and Ai. That's why she is angry with the drug research. I was wondering if Yukiko met or saw the picture of Sharon's daughter. Ther are friends and should want to have a look at a child if she has one. That's why I think Sharon's daughter really existed before. However if that's the case, why do BO members not realize the APTX's shrinking effect. That's what is bothering me.

The third one is cute. I like the coloring and designing of the glasse.

I doubt of Vermouth having three identities for public. If she's really Sharon's mother and swiched to Sharon as her public form (owing to immortality effect), then why does she have to take another public form as Chris? I believe that's because she turned younger at this point and thought it convenient to be at the same age as she is at public. Also, according to the quoted theory, it follows that "Sharon" hadn't existed right? But it's weird that a star appears out of nowhere and there has to be an recognized existance(real person) before that. So I'm guessing that Sharon at the age of around 50 is Vermouth's true identity, I mean she is what Vermouth is to be if nothing happened regarding her aging. What do you think?

Watching Haibara through the episodes, I felt that her taste for clothes is noticeable. Just as you said, she is a girl and cares about what she wears like any other girls. However, unlike other characters in DC such as Ayumi and Ran, who are outgoing, Ai is somehow withdrawn and does not seem to be eager in showing herself. I mean it does not seem like she cares for an image. Therefore, I find it unlikely that Ai is a fashion fan because I think fashion is about how you show yourself to the world. But still, she seems to care about what to wear because she actually reads fashin magazines. So I took it like this: Ai has a paticular taste in beauty.[your second point] What I mean is she is an artistic person. I guess she has an idea of what is beautiful and is always exploring that concept just like artists. Thus, I think Ai often reads fashion magagines in order to keep herself being inspired about the concept, "beauty". That's my opinion about your suggestion. It's always fun to discover an surprising aspect of my favorite character.