Chekhov MacGuffin

The Black Organization doesn't necessarily know about Shinichi. That quote properly is "Kudo-kun? You would probably never even dream that you are already part of a project the Black Organization has been working on already for half a century." Basically it could just mean the APTX 4869 project that Shinichi was "forced into" against his will when he was drugged by Gin is part of a research scheme that began over fifty years ago.

I think you forgot to link whatever it was you wanted us to look at.

Thanks for the interview info! I'll link it over in the interviews thread.

So far, I think it is possible the drugged/too-drunk-to-resist victim was drowned in an upside-down umbrella that had been filled with rainwater. Even a woman could move the guy to the toilet and prop him up if he was napping close by. Not yet explained is the weird gurgling sound Conan heard in the parking lot on page 13. Sonoko mentions where Kogoro's rental was parked on page 12. That's probably important (besides the fact Makoto was in it). My guess is the parking lot will have been the scene of the crime. Brown hair lady Went to go see how the vic was doing. Vic was not in car according to her, triggering search for him. Thought he might be drinking. She suggested searching the bars. Says vic didn't return to his car. Black Hair lady Went to the car to put him in. He was in car according to her. Apparently last to see vic. Dark haired chick knew it was raining the whole time although indoors. Was paying attention to weather? Says vic's phone is turned off. Found body. I wonder which cop we will get?

THIS THREAD will be used to discuss the ENGLISH ONLY VERSION. In other words, if you only read early spoilers or the Chinese scanlation and wish to discuss them, this is NOT the right place for you! RULES OF THE ENGLISH ONLY NO SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD: 1. DO NOT POST any kind of spoiler involving the case (Pictures, Texts, Information, Full Scans...) of any language. Even posting spoilers in spoiler boxes is not allowed. 2. Please DO NOT reveal, give hints or talk about any information or event that has not yet happened in the English releases in this thread. Q&A: 1. Why is this whole thing necessary ? A: Click 2. Can I join the discussion in the other thread as well ? A: Of course you can. HOWEVER, as mentioned in the rules above, you MUST NOT reveal, give hints or talk about ANYTHING that spoils in this thread if you do. File 859 is out in English!

真 is Makoto's given name, and it is used to make a play on words with your aforementioned title of nobility (i.e. "Makoto-koushi" ≈ "young noble" which is translated to prince). Makoto's nickname is "Prince of kicks/offense/however the translators are feeling about martial arts terms today." "He appeared! The Prince of kicks!!" is probably it.

Welcome to DCW. Yes, Aoyama Gosho, the creator of Detective Conan is still alive and writing - it still isn't over yet. His personal webpage is here: http://www.conatsu.com/ The anime is approaching a high point of one of its long running arcs. That series of episodes will probably take place in July.

You must have a password to register and post in the first place. I've never heard of anyone signing up with twitter, so maybe you used your twitter account email and password? Your other option is to sign out of your account, go to the login, and select the I forgot my password option. You will be emailed a new password at your old email account. Then log back in using that emailed password, and change the email to your new email and change the password. Usual instructions for things like this

What? Shinichi's age citations for 16 use 2 manga, and one manga canon guidebook for the given age of 16. Agasa uses the same manga canon guidebook for 52, with 53 noted because it comes from an OVA. There is nothing wrong with including the anime ages, if that is what you are asking.

Watched the episode and confirmed "juu-nana" because some subs are unreliable. Even worse, it's an AO. I suppose something like 16 (official) 17 (anime) would make the most sense.

Gosho Aoyama confirmed in an interview that Ran has not has her birthday yet and is still 16. Shinichi is 16 in the manga according to multiple sources and 17 in the anime unless they retconn that mistake later. Shiho is 18 by manga translation. Look at it this way, 2 years older is still a great match, certainly better than Gin who she was supposed to have been in a relationship with before she escaped the Black Org.

I didn't know they were broken. Thanks for the heads up. If only DCTP would reenable the intrapost linking, then all my posts there would look normal again.

Probably over the internet is the best option. Try searching here and at DCTP for threads about sales.

My honest opinion is that this theory is very silly. I think the number of a chapter isn't a good clue. You can make up reasons for any number to be suspicious. Why is 111 more important than 222 or 333 or 486? Why does a company buying one of Agasa's inventions make them possible bad guys? That bath house in chapter 722 also bought an invention from Agasa. Agasa sold people some ham and egg making machines that he had to fix in chapter 664. Vermouth doesn't need to use a voice changer to change her voice. She learned how to do it naturally from the first Kaitou Kid: Kuroba Toichi. Why is Bandai making toy cars in real life suspicious? American toymaker Mattel makes toy cars. Are they suspicious? Gin's car is a Porsche 356A, not a Saab. Gosho would never make a real contemporary person to be the boss. Since the boss is a bad guy, Gosho could be sued for libel or something like that if he used a real life person. In order to make a good theory you have to use clues from the manga. Also, clues have to come from Gosho's work. Trying to say that Bandai is suspicious because it has a car on its Wikipedia page makes no sense. That is because Gosho doesn't control Wikipedia. If you want to see an example of a strong theory, take a look at the theory that Okiya Subaru is Shuuichi Akai. Most theories aren't this long, but you can see the sorts of arguments that are used. You can use it as a guide to improve your argument style.

Click here to read the translation of the first few pages by Fujiwara from DCTP I'm glad we are dealing with someone different looking. An identical twin or someone similar would have been a pain in the ass to deal with theory wise. We know the brother is probably not Amuro because Sera presumably called her middle brother in chapter 800 at the same time Amuro was chatting with Vermouth. Since Sera doesn't know where her brother is, I guess we can rule out a not-Akai-in-disguise Okiya being the middle brother, because she met him at Shinichi's place (although her reaction to Okiya was notable). "Sera: During the case the other day he also told me that my deduction was unreliable, … but since you were there to come to the rescue if I was wrong …" It seems we are looking for someone familiar with Conan. All the new semi-relevant male characters introduced in the Bourbon arc that are between 16 and 35 are: (35 chosen because we don't know Akai's age and 35 is probably a good guess for the upper limit) Yamato Kansuke - Nagano officer (35) Enomoto Sugihito - Poirot waitress Azuha's brother (28) Morofushi Taka'aki (Koumei) - Nagano officer (35) Ares Ashley - Minerva's tennis coach (30) Amuro Tohru - Bourbon (29) Onda Ryouhei - Kogoro imposter (21) Haneda Shuukichi - Yumi's semi-ex-boyfriend (28) I would axe Enomoto, Ares, and Onda for not being smart enough to give case advice. Amuro is out for phone call reasons. That leaves the two Nagano officers and Shuukichi. All three know Conan well enough and are smart enough to advise on cases. The two Nagano officers have had their pasts decently expounded upon, but I suppose that does not rule them out. If we have to choose a known character, Shuukichi seems the most likely. He's identifies Conan's intelligence immediately. He is also busy collecting titles to the point where he secluded himself from Yumi, so he may not have told Sera what he has been up to as well. Akai could easily be lying about his age (27) as Okiya, but Shuukichi's 28 is something to think about. Edit: reread Shuukichi's chapter: • Shuukichi was noted by Yumi to be pale white, which Akai is. Double edit: There is a plausible way for the second brother to be a new character. During the yet-to-be seen episode where Shinichi and Sera met somewhere with waves, Shinichi might have met the middle brother as well. If there was a case (likely because DC) and Shinichi did a good job as a kid, then the brother might have remembered Shinichi or kept up with his detective progress. If, when Sera calls the brother, she talks about Shinichi instead of Conan because she knows Conan's true identity, then the brother could say leave it up to Shinichi. It's not a great idea, but it's workable.

They were delinked years ago because lawyers threatened the site for listing them. There is no way to watch Conan videos here, the list is just for reference.

That's the reason. Irish is listed on the main Black Organization page.

I think Sera was talking to James Black at the end of 857, i.e. the same person she was talking to in 800 at the car wreck.

Apologies for the double post. There are some things I still don't get about the case. I can't come up with an answer I like, one free of contradictions. That makes picking the culprit hard but I think it is either Rumi or Settsu. My thoughts so far. Timing of Events Waka was drinking with Kaga until 05:00 Midday next day, Settsu, who was waiting with Rumi, went to the bathroom for a while. 30 minutes later, Kaga arrives and goes to the bathroom. Very soon after, Rumi and Ran go to check on Waka while Kaga is still out 30 minutes later, Kaga and Settsu go to check on the girls and are delayed by getting the door unlocked by staff. Manipulator positions. Rumi hired Sera, Sera was with Rumi all day acting as alibi. Settsu went to restroom prior to Ran and Conan arriving. Settsu made reservation at a restaurant that is hard to get reservations for, but had no control over who would attend. Rumi told Settsu that sister would not be attending. Settsu invited Ran right away after hearing sister would not be attending. Kaga asks to use restroom when he comes, Settsu tells him where it is. Rumi decides she wants to look for Waka Settsu had the room key, asks Rumi to return it to Waka. Settsu told Ran to go with Rumi to go upstairs, excuses himself from doing it. Rumi opens door to the apt. Rumi tells Ran where to search, while going to answer her phone while heading towards the living room. After Ran faints, Rumi has free run of the place. Assumptions that are probably fair to make Settsu was watched by Sera and Conan while he was downstairs, except for his bathroom break. Everything that happened when Settsu and Kaga went to find out why Ran, Rumi, and Waka were delayed probably happened as the two guys told because of extra witnesses that can verify. Also the details of the entry situation were not shown, and normally clue relevant scenes are shown or mentioned. I wouldn’t worry about where in the house the guys checked first. Conan presumably followed them, and maybe Sera as well. Character of the crime The crime seems premeditated in that obtaining chloroform requires planning ahead of time. However, a golf club as a murder weapon is not very premeditated. A golf club would make sense only if the culprit needed a blunt instrument, but that person was forced to use what was available and couldn’t bring something better ahead of time without arousing suspicion or worry it might be discovered. Also the failure to dispose of the chloroform in a better fashion is unusual because it doesn’t look like a suicide if the bottle is left in the kitchen sink away from the location of death, thus implicating one of the three suspects who visited recently. Also the door was locked, which does not match the image of a random break-in attacker. It would make sense that the culprit could not dispose of the chloroform and murder weapon in a better fashion, perhaps because they were pressed for time or worried about someone coming. The state of the victim’s body suggests that she was killed while awake with a blunt instrument while fiddling with her eye, because going unconscious first due to chloroform should result in a face like Ran’s with both eyes closed. A facial is something you don’t put on with makeup that you intend to keep on because the facial has to get washed off. That means the makeup Waka has on currently is last night’s makeup. Maybe she was planning on taking a shower in prep for the lunch. She had to take her contacts out that she left in overnight because she passed out. She might have been winking because she was taking out one of her contacts when she was killed and died nearly instantly. So where did her contact go? Not a suicide One possibility is Waka tried to commit suicide with chloroform. It explains why the narcotic was in the apartment in the first case. However, suicide is probably not what happened because it fails to explain why would the victim’s head be beaten, and the body winking. The damage seems to be worse than just falling over and hitting her head, otherwise Yokomizo might have mentioned that possibility. Also the facial is something that would have been put on after Kaga left, and it doesn’t make sense to dress up to die. The trick, the shower, and the red stuff- unfortunately contradictions? It seems like the shower is going when Ran enters based on the smoke/steam and the sound effect that appears to be a whining shower sound. Since there isn’t water on the ground, I assume it is pouring into the tub. Since there is a lot of steam, I assume there is still hot water and the shower hasn't been running all day, the culprit recently turned it on. Or something was put in the tub in the water to make it look like the room was foggy from hot water... One possibility is that the red paint was prepared ahead of time to be fake blood. (To make cleanup easier the fake blood could be solidified, so it would peel up and then melt when exposed to water. Would also explain why the shower was left running to make sure it all dissolved away.) The culprit entered the apartment and applied fake blood around Waka after she was drunk and asleep in the bathroom. Chloroform was added to the room to keep Waka down. (When?) Ran walked in when Waka was really only knocked out, was knocked out herself, the red stuff was cleaned up, and then Waka was killed for real. The problem is the state of the body with one eye shut, like Waka was in the process of applying makeup or removing contacts when she was killed and died instantly. Also to make this work the culprit needs to come early once, and has to cleanup while Ran is down, somehow not being knocked out herself. This needs time to evacuate the room or some sort of protection. Finally Waka has on a face mask, if she was asleep drunk, when did she put that on? After Kaga made her lock the door? If the substance was not used for faking blood then makeup like liquid rouge, lip gloss, or nail polish makes the most sense for red paint-like stuff considering the location. If so, the presence of the stuff in the tub is strange because you would think that makeup is more likely to be found in the sink part of the bathroom. Perhaps the red product contained chloroform that was injected with the syringe and used to knock out Waka when she used it. Maybe another makeup product contained chloroform and was used to knockout Waka and the red was knocked over accidentally? Ran got close enough to sniff it and pass out, but it seemed too strong for this technique considering how everyone else acted. Maybe the culprit knocked over the red accidentally because they were clumsy and had to wash it away? If the culprit was killed instantly while at the sink, it would more naturally explain Waka's winking pose versus both eyes closed due to chloroform knockout. Maybe the culprit knocked over the red stuff in the process and washed it away in the bath because it was easier. They left the shower on because they didn't want someone to notice the bath was wet but off for no reason, and moved Waka's body into the shower room to make it look like she was preparing to shower. The purpose of the chloroform here is unexplained. Whatever the substance, the culprit turned on and ran the shower most likely to wash away the red paint substance and fill the room with steam. Culprit is probably not Kaga I don’t think the culprit is Kaga because he could have set up a “drunk accident” the night before and not implicate himself. A slip and fall would be reasonable. There is no particular reason for Kaga to delay murderous intentions until the morning of the lunch meet, because there wouldn’t be better circumstances for murder then. That means that if Kaga killed Waka later that day when he went to the bathroom, it would be an unpremeditated crime. Kaga wouldn’t have been able to bring chloroform because that does require some premeditation to obtain. Also, I can’t think of a plan for Kaga where using chloroform would make sense, much less leaving it and the murder weapon in the apartment. Let’s assume Kaga is telling the truth from here on. Things to think about if the culprit is Rumi. Rumi has not been wearing contacts in the entire time she has appeared and appears to be very near sighted. The evidence for this is: She missed Settsu’s key catch. She had to hold the key up to her face before unlocking the door to make sure she put it in the right way. She had to hold the phone close to her face to see who she is calling. Conan told her what the picture was so she didn’t have to bend close to see his phone. She failed to find Settsu’s watch in the living room, assuming she was looking for it. There was no way she would if her eyesight was that bad. Poor eyesight means Rumi is more likely to spill something by bumping into it, like whatever the red paint substance (makeup) is. Also Rumi seemed sure the dead person was Waka until Kaga asked the police if it really was her. Rumi apparently saw Waka was wearing a facial mask. How did she know Waka was the dead person when her vision sucks? Was it an assumption or did she slip up? Could she even see well enough to whack Waka's head well? Rumi asked Ran to go to the place with the chloroform, and avoided it herself with the phone as an excuse. Sera’s later call seems to indicate phones get fine reception in the apartment and there was no need to take the call on the veranda. The timing of incoming phone call from Settsu could have been convenient coincidence, as Rumi could have also been intending to fake it. Why would Rumi execute her plan without her glasses/contacts? Isn't it risky? She could do the fake blood murder version, but the chloroform must have been added to the room early in the morning. This matches with the character of the crime in that there are some preprepared elements and the golf club was on the spot. Also, it sounds like the shower was on when Ran walked in meaning it must have been turned on early in the morning before the meet with Sera. How is it still hot enough to make steam? Rumi doesn’t seem to relock the door; she seems to go straight for veranda contrary to her testimony. When did she relock? Locking the door extends the time before discovery. Rumi could not throw the bottle and syringe over the veranda because she could not see if below was clear. Rumi could have hired Sera as an alibi. Rumi set up the circumstance for the crime early the morning of? If would have to be so if fake blood was involved. Also the room has to be filled with chloroform somehow. It’s also possible Rumi was just clumsy with red makeup of something because her vision is bad and had to wash it off her and down the tub. She then leaves the shower on. How is the water still hot though? Evidence in favor of the culprit being Settsu. Settsu has the most suspicion on him because he has the key. Unless it was a crime of unpremeditated passion, killing Waka in the way she was killed would be the worst for him, especially since he took a bathroom break. That said, he could have been counting on everybody to forget where he went. He didn’t know Sera was hired by Rumi after all and meeting Ran and Conan was a coincidence. Also of issue is why Settsu would need chloroform at all. If he were to commit the crime, he would have to go upstairs, hit her, and leave. The chloroform seems extraneous. What does he need it for? No other suicide/robbery scenarios seem to have been employed that might make chloroform attractive to use. Also, he could have removed the murder weapon or something like that on the way down. Maybe he intended to give Rumi an alibi by "attacking" her or her sister who was supposed to show up with chloroform, not knowing Sera was Rumi's alibi? That would explain why he might divert Rumi away from the bathroom by pretending not to hear her on the phone so Ran would take the fall. Timing wise, if there was still hot water, him turning on the shower makes more sense than Rumi who would have had to do it earlier. The fake blood theory doesn't work for him because he wouldn't have had the opportunity to hit her later under Kaga, Conan, Sera, and the door opener's watch. Settsu could manipulate Rumi away from the bathroom and the chloroform if he pretends to have a bad connection. Settsu was pretty distressed about the sister not being there, and he easily invites Ran to join even though she has Conan with her. He says that an extra kid wouldn't be a big deal, but just 5 seconds earlier he was talking about how difficult it was to get her a reservation at the famous restaurant. Maybe he's so quick to bring them along because he knows they won't make it to the restaurant anyway? When Settsu hands Conan the coins directly it may imply he was not confident in his vision to hand them back. That said he was able to read his watch in the lobby when he looked at it. Also, the missing memento wristwatch story is odd. Why did Settsu call Rumi if she already knew to look for the watch? Settsu has a watch in the lobby. Why does he need to find another watch? Where did Settsu’s watch he looked at in the lobby go by the time we get to the last page? His left hand is in his pocket, but on last page we can see his left hand wrist and the watch is not there. He went to the bathroom earlier before and he should have had the watch then, so he has no reason to take it off unless he is hiding the fact he had one to make the missing memento watch story check out. What if Settsu spilled the red on his watch, but then took it off before anyone noticed when he heard the investigation found red in the bath trap? Apparently didn’t know about Sera being there after death discovered, or that Rumi hired her to watch. Nobody finds it odd that the ex would be mad at dinner, it doesn't sound like two people who are secretly seeing each other. Main issues. How and when was the chloroform released? You could make a “time bomb” by putting the bottle of chloroform behind the bathroom door so it tips over and releases chloroform when the bathroom door is opened? Problem is that it does not use the syringe. Why was chloroform necessary at all? It seems to complicate the crime with little benefit, especially because it requires premeditation to bring. The fake blood thing could justify it, but contradictions. When was the vic killed and where? Before or after being chloroformed? In front of the sink or the shower? Waka should take out her contacts in the sink part of the bathroom. Why is she in the shower part of the bathroom? (Unless she was dragged in there after being hit while taking out contacts in front of the sink.) What is the red paint substance and why was the shower head left running? Why would Rumi not bring her contacts? Other things to think about. I wonder if Waka falling asleep on the veranda was a test run? Could Rumi and Settsu be working together or covering for one another? If so, Rumi did not mention Sera to Settsu as he seems to be surprised. Possibly blood on golf club isn’t Waka’s? What if the vic fell asleep in the shower room after drinking with makeup still on and prep for facial before bed? Rumi or Settsu could come over early and manipulate the scene. The chloroform as a red herring? Chloroform in red liquid which is then cleaned out? Chloroform in the contact solution? Door not really locked? If door already unlocked Rumi would have had more trouble. The description “giving away inside” does sound like proper bolt sliding and unlocking. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Now that the solution is out... The solution seems to be overly complicated. It's like the culprit expected there to be a strong detective on the scene to think of the Rumi-in-disguise version of the trick. Yokomizo wouldn't have bothered on his own. The culprit shows intelligence by coming up with a plan to implicate another person by making it look like they performed a trick, yet it contradicts with the culprit poorly thinking out several components. He is still a major suspect and Yokomizo would have hauled him off anyway had Sera, an unexpected guest, not stepped in. How did Settsu know what instructions Rumi would give Ran when she got upstairs? Ran might not have been first to the chloroform if Rumi politely asked her to wait until she finished the phone call because Rumi decided that it would be better to go together rather than have Ran wake Waka alone. What if Ran was feeling shy/polite and waited outside the shower until Rumi finished the call instead of barging into the room? That problem would have still existed even if Rumi's sister came along instead of Ran. Also the culprit didn't paint the ground with red paint. Wouldn't forensics notice the fake death didn't add up once they tried to verify Rumi's "scheme"? Then there are the contradictions Conan pointed out. The whole thing seems favor story (Conan gets to beat Sera again) over logic. Even though Waka put Settsu's contact in her own eye, wouldn't both her eyes close after she finished because she was falling unconscious? Also Gosho seems to have forgotten hot water is not infinite, especially in apartments....

What's the problem with Akai temporarily unsquinting his eyes from behind the glasses? I recall Genta's father, Kojima Genji, who is the model for the high-powered glasses theory, opened his eyes completely when he was screaming at the culprit in chapter 660. Okiya may have hid the comb to hide the fact he was using his left hand, or because Gosho wants us to think he was adjusting his wig with it. (It looks like an ordinary comb to me, but maybe those are rarer in Japan?)

The blood Ran saw might have also been the red paint-like substance which was washed away later. Not sure about that though. I'm working on a deduction for later today. I need some time to step back though because I have been thinking about it all morning.