Chekhov MacGuffin

I think the pacing in Bourbon arc was not well planned, and the new arc characters were introduced in a way that didn't maximize their story impact, especially in the long term. The Bourbon arc should have been about 100 chapters shorter. There was a lot of padding from Okiya's intro to Bourbon's intro. There were also some parts where the plot cases piled up almost one after another, that while totally hype from our perspective, could have been paced out with randoms without losing too much intensity. (V75-77) Bourbon also came in too late IMO. It would have really taken pressure off of him as a suspect if he did more innocent apprenticing with Kogoro, or didn't try to become Kogoro's apprentice right away but kept "coincidentally" running into him. Masumi never really felt like a viable Bourbon suspect compared to Okiya and Amuro. Kuroda should have come in earlier in my opinion to be the third/fourth suspect after Matsumoto's scar case, menaced in the background, and then played a role in Amuro trying to showdown with Okiya in the second half. (Assuming Gosho had planned Kuroda out back then.) It would have been a sort of James Black in the Vermouth arc situation again, which I thought was a fun move back then and not too overdone. I marked the Bourbon arc in the poll, but I don't know if the decline of quality in permanent. I don't really like the Akai family subplot. Until shrunken Mary and Tsutomu came in after X00 chapters, it failed to create feelings of tension or deep mystery. To compare just prior arcs, the Kir arc was a much stronger "family mystery" with a lot more emotion thanks to Eisuke, and the cellphone arc managed a pretty decent feeling of deep mystery even though it was just Conan being haunted by a sound he can't quite pin down. One of the most egregious points to me was the disconnect between how much Gosho expected people to care about Masumi's middle brother and how much people actually felt it was important. Midbro wasn't in danger or have interesting backstory to contribute, he just leeched off Masumi's character by being the real brains behind her. The meeting with Masumi in the past was also pretty underwhelming, which was sad. I really wanted that case to focus on Masumi interacting with Shinichi and Ran, especially her with Shinichi. Shuukichi and Mary also deserved more attention too since they are the new people. Shuuichi stole all the spotlight though, which was a disappointment. I think that should have been a double case, 6 chapters, to give more time for characters to show off. I don't view the Rum arc as hopeless. With shrunken Mary, Tsutomu's disappearance, and the potential for Elena reappear in the plot, there might be some stronger points coming.

Many years ago the German fandom started a project where they listed every character in the manga, even background ones, up until that interview. It didn't get people's names in guestbooks or on street signs / whatever unfortunately. I snagged a copy of the excel doc and started going through name by name to rule out characters for being dead, in jail, acting extremely stupid, etc. There are relatively few good suspects early on. Here are all the ones prior to chapter 115 or so that are still in my technically valid category (and not all have full names listed mind). If/when there is enough demand I can make the doc available for download. I never finished going through all the cases either. Seems like it would be a good group project. Volume 1 Case 1 Aiko Volume 3 Case 7 Kitaro Hatamoto Volume 3 Case 7 Mariko Hatamoto Volume 3 Case 7 Akie Hatamoto Volume 3 Case 7 Kenji Suzuki Volume 3 Case 8 Maki Okuda Volume 3 Case 8 Hiroshi Wada Volume 3 Case 8 Mr. Kishida Volume 4 Case 9 Iijima Volume 5 Case 12 Masaru Ota Volume 5 Case 12 Hiroki Sumiya Volume 5 Case 12 Ayako Suzuki Volume 5 Case 13 Mieko Shibazaki Volume 5 Case 13 Katsumi Yamada Volume 5 Case 13 Go Sumi Volume 6 Case 14 Masao Volume 6 Case 15 Ineko Maru Volume 7 Case 17 Yamada Volume 7 Case 18 Kenta Volume 7 Case 18 Masato Shimizu Volume 7 Case 18 Reiko Kuroiwa Volume 7 Case 18 Shuichi Murasawa Volume 7 Case 19 Ramus Volume 8 Case 20 Shiro Konno Volume 8 Case 20 Genichiro Kaneshiro Volume 8 Case 20 Shizue Hayashi Volume 8 Case 21 Kaori Volume 8 Case 21 Yamada Volume 8 Case 21 Sato Volume 8 Case 21 Kazumi Takenaka Volume 8 Case 21 Atsushi Umemiya Volume 9 Case 23 Yukio Ayashiro Volume 9 Case 23 June Oomura

Melodrama because it was supposed to be a dramatic and somewhat serious moment given backdrop and the way their characters were presented. It wasn't a lighthearted, goofy moment. As for my point, try to imagine that scene played out by your real life friends in your head, and what their honest reactions would be. The boyfriend of one of your besties stood her up, and she's kinda down about it, so you -out of the complete blue- try to imitate his voice and confess love to your friend. .... Yeah. 9 times out of 10, assuming your friends are semi-average, will give you a wtf look and some awkward giggling. Hopefully you didn't hurt their feelings by reminding them they got stood up (even if it was for good reasons). Maybe you have a chill friend and they break out laughing. The last thing that would realistically happen is staring deeply into each others eyes while blushing, unless you and your friend are secretly crushing on one another. And that's why I thought this scene was awkward as hell . It's a "cute moment" in the same sense that a "culprit's gun can fire bullets which curve around corners" could be a murder trick. You can certainly use it, but some people are going to drop their suspension of disbelief.

That Ran-Kazuha confession scene was really, really weird. It seems like Gosho was going for some sort of melodrama, but it just didn't work. Ran suddenly trying to impersonate Heiji and pretty viciously rubbing in the fact that a murder case has yet again gotten in the way of finalizing the relationship seems like it should be played off as funny. But the scene was serious. Nobody laughed. And thus it was weird and awkward.

I just want to get this out of the way, but there is a negative 100% chance that Rum is... #1 Going to be the fetch pet of a high school girl. #2 Occupy a bottom-feeding plot role as the underling of a third wheel.

Thanks for bringing it up again. I would like to put it to rest. The whole argument seemed to rest on an incongruity between "How a Japanese speaker thinks a concept should be translated into English" (mail address) and "How an English speaker would actually translate that concept" (phone number). I always thought it was pretty obviously a phone number given how it was actually used.

I am going to assume Gosho was rushing and not crosschecking reference notes for when things happen and thus got the relative ages wrong. Or maybe something even weirder happened and he meant to draw Masumi instead of Shuukichi. Either way, his editor should have been paying attention and pointed out the inconsistency. Kor pointed out there were many incongruous scenes in the flashback that simply contradicted earlier lead-up panels. The whole Akai flashback case was kind of messy and pretty odd anyway. Personally, I think the flashback's plot was either a last minute extreme rush job that wasn't outlined properly beforehand or there must have been some serious logical or plot problem that required a total last minute rework. I am kinda glad it got fixed because I remember everyone in the forums and cbox was real confused when that panel appeared. The apparent age difference between the kid and Shuukichi started a lot of arguments about who the child was.

Realistically, what Japanese songs recite Hyakunin Isshu poems? And who just hangs out listening to music with one earbud in during a murder case? He's communicating with someone. Maybe Gosho will drop a hint in the third chapter. Again, my bet is the movie Momiji girl.

I wouldn't be surprised if the boss has a Western connection, but the Nanatsu no ko song is a dead giveaway the boss spent a good deal of time in/was raised in Japan. Nobody outside of Japan is familiar with that tune. All known confirmed facts about the boss are listed on the wiki page. If it's not there, it's probably a rumor. The boss's nationality has not been confirmed at this point. To be fair, the FBI may only be involved with the BO because the BO extended its reach from Japan to the United States (and possibly other countries like England), and caused criminal trouble that attracted the domestic agency. The FBI may not have realized right away they were dealing with an international mafia-like organization. Also the FBI actually has overseas offices attached to embassies, including one in Japan. They help with crimes that cross national boundaries.

Didn't know that. That's pretty clever.

I have the same problem with refreshing forum periodically to keep me logged in. Yeah, the IPs and the caution triangle are mod things. I haven't had any problems in the forums transforming into other people's accounts. It only seems to be a wiki file thing.

This is a pretty out there idea, but maybe this new guy isn't plot, but instead related to the movie character Momiji Ooka? This is a Hattori case, and the guy mentioned something to do with Hyakunin Isshu karuta, which is the sport Momiji Ooka is a champion in. Maybe she sent the guy as a stalker to keep Heiji and Kazuha from having a good time because, uh, vague handwavey women-can-be-creepy-and-possessive reasons? And he is telling her what is going on and listening to her through the earpiece? That might explain the sudden Hyakunin Isshu recital at the end of the case after listening to someone on the earpiece. Also the guy's "fake" last name being the same as Ran's Hyde High rival Hina Wada is something to think about too. Both names he used are people connected to Ran, even though he spelled Shinichi differently. Also, some "medical personnel" he is. He did jack to help the injured vic... I dunno, I think I'm letting personal bias create excuses for this guy not to be a valid Rum suspect or main plot involved, because I don't want there to me more suspects than we already have... +|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+|=|+| Let’s talk case! I like the case so far. It's a simple, yet solid locked room setup and the first case to have me excited for a while now. I hope the solution is equally as good! Here's my rundown as I see it.

I noticed some odd problems when looking specifically at "file" pages on the wiki. One of the problems is file pages showing I am not logged in, when mainspace pages, special pages, and the forum show I am (inconvenient when I want my mod options to pop up like to delete images). Today, I had an error that I can definitely say was not related to caching... A file page shows me logged in as Jimmy-kud0-tv2 which is definitely not right, as we are different people. Maybe not-so coincidentally, he is the one who uploaded the image. Basically the little shortcut menu had his name where mine should be in the upper right, and it looked like I had normal user permissions. (Even though I can manually bring up mod only special pages just fine). It mostly seems to be cosmetic, Clicking preferences and watchlist shows me my own, not Jimmy's. I am pretty sure if someone else sees themselves logged in as me, they can't use mod options as those are on the special pages which still seem to work right. Is any one else seeing this problem when looking at file pages? http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/images/e/e5/Im_jimmy_now.jpg

A device-based case <3

Nah, the beginning of the arc is always a new stream of candidates, if the Bourbon arc is an good model. Expect late arrivals too. We are moving forward in the plot, it's just in info trickle mode and not action mode now.

With this kind of thing it might be better to move outside of the realm of maybes and actually see if any Japanese people are surprised in discussions online. ------- Anyway, I know I have been off doing my own thing and going so far at to neglect posting case solutions for the monthly cases, but I did manage to get out an update to the vision analysis sheet. Wakasa Rumi's numbers are still not in satisfactory range to call her like I called Sakurako Yonehara (right now she has only half of the desirable amount of data meaning the numbers are pretty volatile), but overall her numbers are still trending towards being fully sighted. The other side of the evidence is that she doesn't seem to be overturning like Kansuke does in either this case or her introductory one. There have been several good panels so far where both she and someone else are standing side by side, and both are turning their heads to look at something. She doesn't overturn more than her same-panel comparison character. Her clumsiness, real or more likely fake and deliberate, is apparently something that she is doing with full vision. Wakita Kanenori's numbers in certain categories (RR:SR) started out of the gate looking like Kansuke's, which was nice to see validated because it helps me confirm my suspicions that Gosho does have certain artistic choice quirks that can be used against him in absence of enough other clues. Wakita is off my suspect list for now because I believe his claim that his eye injury is temporary and not permanent like Rum's is. He claimed to have aspirations to work the sushi counter, the soft medical dressing he wears is a type of temporary disposable eyepad to promote healing, and he even offered to show the wound which a more cautious individual might not risk. I already noted that Hyoue Kuroda is a bit unusual because he does not turn his head or eyes much (78.2% SS). So I tabulated his now boss, Kiyonaga Matsumoto, to use as the comparison case for bulky geezers (Since Matsumoto is the bulkiest geezer among the protagonists, as opposed to just being fat). The can-shaped-head Superintendent+ was within the usual 50-65% straight head and straight eyes range. This definitely could be a clue that characters who overwhelmingly face and look straight are hiding an eye problem. In that case, Chikara Katsumata should be given careful consideration in his next appearance, as he has an even higher 78.9% SS from his first two appearances (which to be fair only amounts to 19 panels able to be considered). Lastly, I've decided not to do Mary as she is the obvious schmuck bait of the Rum candidates - Rum isn't going to be the one poisoned with APTX, who knows Conan's secret, and popped out 3 Akais. Gosho pretty often has one trash suspect you can axe pretty quick, and Mary seems to be it for this arc.

I have been super busy lately IRL, so I haven't had a lot of time to do forum stuff other than bare bones moderation. If someone gets an index going, I'll pin it.

You seem to be lumping two groups of people who are rather different: There is type 1) the fans who complain about AOs because they believe they are not as good on average, and type 2) the fans who are dismissive of AOs because they don't impact the main storyline significantly. I sympathize with the type 1s some. The early AOs were pretty good, but the modern ones generally aren't as good as Gosho's mysteries. There are some exceptional standout AOs, and I generally like the mystery tours because they show interesting cultural tidbits, but otherwise I don't feel like AOs are worth my time. I am a type 2, because I hardly have time to deal with anything but the main manga canon. If you are in DC mainly for the ride, manga canonicity vs anime/movie canonicity doesn't really matter. If you are in DC because you want to play detective and uncover who the BO boss is and the mystery behind the BO's true plan, then you have to be picky. In a series like this, a fan who watches and enjoys everything, AOs included, and one that specializes in manga canon only are equally "True". As Jimmy said, canonicity matters to theories. In a mystery series, facts are important and they have repercussions. The only way to guarantee you have accurate facts is to only get them from the person who knows the true answers to everything in full detail: Gosho Aoyama. The anime has historically screwed over anyone trying to solve the arc mysteries. There were continuous mistakes and alterations: from creating plotholes that made it impossible for Conan to learn Gin and Vodka's codenames, to missing clues that made it impossible for an anime watcher to solve Akai's faked death. It really is in only the past 4-5 years that the anime has been consistently right on clues and matters of the plot. In general, only the manga and interviews and whatnot are guaranteed to be accurate without enlarging or distorting things for dramatic effect. The other issue is that it can take year+ to fully catch up in the show. DC is freaking long. The manga is nearing 1000 chapters. If you streamed the anime and movies and specials continuously, 24 hours a day, skipping all openings and endings, you would have to stay awake ~20 days straight to watch it all. If you decided to spend an hour watching DC every night to catch up, it would take you a year and four months. If you were paid $8 an hour to watch DC, then when you got current, you will have earned, ~$3800 dollars. Assuming you have school or a job, that's not an easy time commitment to make. Many people shortcut by ignoring AOs because they want to get current quickly. It's dismissive of AOs, but a reasonable and understandable move.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User:Chekhov_MacGuffin/Karasuma_Renya This page is meant to clear up some misunderstandings about Karasuma Renya caused by bad translations and subtitles. Credit to jimmy_kud0_tv2 and Kor who did the research. The crow association doesn't exist. It's a mistranslation of Karasuma Renya's name. The Kaizou Subs also completely skip the line where it says that Karasuma Renya inherited the mansion from his mother. They just leave the line "He told me he always wanted to find the treasure" on the screen when Senma is explaining the inheritance thing. (Quote from jimmy_kud0_tv2) In the Kaizou subs version of the anime, during the scene where Detective Mogi, Mouri, and Conan find the piano and the note hidden between the keys, Mogi states that the tragedy rumor and the riddle are "all true and relevant" ... However the word used in both the manga and anime in Japanese is "mayutsuba" meaning "false / counterfeit", which is the exact opposite of what the subtitles say. (Quote from jimmy_kud0_tv2) Karasuma Renya later finds the clues about the King, Queen, and Knight and begins paying people to see if they can solve the riddle. At the end of the case, Senma tries to say that Karasuma was still alive 40 years ago when her father was hired to solve the riddle. Karasuma was killing the people he invited to solve the riddle as motivation to find the treasure quicker. This contradicts the earlier story that is told about two strangers and marijuana on several points. 1. Both events happened 40 years ago. 2. Both events caused massive amounts of blood to be spilled. 3. Karasuma was still alive at 40 years ago even though the story said he died "half a century ago". (Quote from jimmy_kud0_tv2) In other words, Renya wasn't smart enough to solve the riddle of his own house.

The forum update seemed to bork the poll so i couldn't update it any more, so I had to recreate the poll and the thread to fix it. Please revote and reupdate your subscriptions. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Vermouth found out Conan was Shinichi and Ai was Sherry at the Mourning Party. The most direct and obvious hint is that she told Vodka after the resolution of the Hyde City Hotel case that there is something "unsettling" on her mind and that a sudden reason to stay in Japan had come up. It's not like she could explain to Vodka what she saw, but it is the only reason that makes perfect sense. Pisco spotted Ai and Conan was right near Ai when that photography situation occurred, so there is no reason Vermouth didn't spot the same. Conan also took off his glasses and gave them to Haibara. Why did Gosho have Shinichi do that? To give Vermouth a reason to recognize Shinichi right away by removing his one mediocre defense against being recognized! The FBI hadn't made any moves on Vermouth at that point. The absolute proof is that Vermouth was unaware of Jodie's fake death plan for Araide when they discussed it at the shipping yard, she found the FBI were after her when they broke in her office but not before. Thus the FBI can't be her reason for staying in Japan. That leaves Conan and Ai. The other thing that strongly points to Vermouth knowing from the beginning is that she chose to replace Araide after the Hyde City Hotel case and before the Mistaken Detectives case, when Ran said that Araide had transferred from the basketball to drama club. That's pretty much right away. Knowing the kids' identities from the beginning is the only explanation that explains why Vermouth had to take the massive risk of replacing Araide instead of doing the easy thing and creating a new character. Vermouth had three goals: put herself in a position where she can 1) manipulate Ai and Conan without suspicion, 2) kill Ai while leaving Conan and Ran alone. Joining the school as someone who regularly interact with kids would be best, so she would want to be a teacher or a school nurse. But here is the thing, it is way easier to come up with someone new than to replace someone pre-existing who has many relationships and a complex specialized skillset. Replacements get caught if you mess up, whereas new people have no attached expectations. That is why most of Yukiko's disguises are randoms and not copies. Even Kaitou Kid who has magic masks tends to become random police or civilians when he needs to make a quick getaway or scout. That makes Vermouth's choice to replace Araide, a doctor with many contacts, relationships, and highly specialized knowledge, very strange unless Vermouth had established goals from the beginning - getting close to Ai and Conan. She replaced Araide because she needed to be extra sneaky: if Haibara reacted, Conan would suspect new people first. Araide has a history with the school, so is less suspicious. A key point is that many people don't realize is that Vermouth was lying when she told Jodie that she needed the FBI to find Shiho. She already found Shiho. Part of the first half of the confrontation and all those office scenes were an act for the FBI in order to manipulate the FBI's movements. Her office space had been invaded so it couldn't be considered private anymore. Anything said aloud or written or left out visible risks being intercepted. The FBI bugged Agasa's phone to listen in on Araide's conversation, but Vermouth knew it was bugged and used the situation to her advantage. Vermouth left the picture of Shiho in the office so she could eventually set up the scenario where Jodie grabs Ai as a lure, takes her to a secluded place thinking her FBI comrades were going to get Vermouth too, but Vermouth would turn the tables and kill the lone Ai and Jodie with help from Calvados. She admitted she had been planning this grand movement since after the Mysterious Passenger. She tried to get close to Conan and Ai on a bus but Jodie (with Akai as backup, so it must have been a move the FBI sensed as serious) blocked her. After that she stole and returned Mouri's case files to lure out the FBI as explained in the confrontation case. In the busjack, I don't know if Vermouth was actually planning on making a move on Ai, or if she was trying to figure out how much the FBI could find out about her actions and thus how badly her security is compromised, or both. I do know Akai doesn't know about Ai yet at the end of the case because he says that the target, as in Vermouth's target Shiho, never showed. Jodie seems to start to figure things out though. The second part is that Vermouth can't admit that Shiho shrunk into Ai. She is trying to protect the secret of the two kids shrinking/not aging pretty desperately from anyone, including other BO, for reasons we still don't know for sure but can kinda guess at (Conan = one of her two angels is part of it). She didn't tell Jodie anything when Jodie interrogated her on why she was targeting a child that looked like Shiho, or why Conan was "cool guy" and not "cool kid", or why she wasn't aging. There's no way Vermouth is going to directly admit to Jodie that she knew Shiho is Ai, because that would confirm the shrinking. That seems like a minor technicality because Jodie is almost at the truth, but that's how it is for Vermouth; she doesn't give even an inch on those topics. In the hints you cited, first you must be aware that the office scenes are not chronologically concurrent with the current timeline. Gosho was being especially tricky, hoping the reader would assume the office scenes were concurrent with the other events. They are not concurrent and there is 100% proof that at least one of the office scenes occurs long before it was shown in the manga. In Jodie's intro case (272), she calls Conan "Cool Guy" meaning she saw the pictures prior to her intro (270). Jodie in 433 described the picture of Shiho as pinned to the dartboard with a dart meaning that the office raid came after Vermouth threw the dart at Shiho's picture. Even though Vermouth is shown throwing the dart into Shiho's picture in the office scene from 340, it must have occurred before Jodie's intro case (270). Also it is unlikely Vermouth has thrown more than one dart and then removed it later because there are no other dart-holes. Second, Vermouth lies a lot. When she tells Gin or the FBI she hasn't found what she is looking for, keep in mind she doesn't trust them. Actionwise, Vermouth seemed to know where Conan and Ai were from the start, and in DC actions speak louder than words. Thirdly, I explained above that her office has been invaded soon after she became Araide. Theatrically announcing she was coming for Ai could very well be for the FBI's benefit since she knew her security had been compromised in some way and they were watching her. Therefore we can't trust what Vermouth says too much in those scenes. It really is though. I've watched the entire Bourbon arc play out the internet from Red vs Black to Rum in English and in German. The people who insisted on complexity from the beginning before there were reasons to are the ones who later got wed to their theories and if/when those failed preferred to jump ship to similarly over-complex ones because they got into a rut by insisting the simpler versions were wrong. The German forum had an especially hard time of this with the hyper complicated Shuuichi Akai is Bourbon and then later Akai is a double agent working for the BO theory. I'm not saying that you can't play with ideas like Asaka is Rumi or Mary right now, but I see signs that you and MeiTanteixX are going beyond playing and looking clingy. I'm worried that it's going to define you and prevent you from being able to backtrack if/when the time to jump to a new theory ship comes. The vanilla default is still reasonable, and Gosho can take the arc in a different direction than you anticipated. They do know! That's why Vermouth and Bourbon went to the concert and Asaka ran off with the mirror. I explained that above in the section you quoted. @dccd its quite worth noticing that Sakurako actually appeared in cases other potential Rum-chars were in as well. But not with them at the same time. That's my important distinction.

The unexplained "NG" is NG.

Char kinda ambiguously explosively died at the end of Gundam, but then reappeared for a followup Gundam movie where he and Amuro are both maybe killed by some sort of Gundam light. Amuro maybe(?) seems to stay dead after that, but Char half comes back because executive cash cow resuscitation. I dunno, the series gets too weird to make sense of. I only went as far as the main first series. Gosho will probably set up Amuro and Akai to fight again because they are designated rivals I guess. Since when has Gosho shown awareness of recent western copyrighted names of random mixed liquors and then based his story on them?