Chekhov MacGuffin

The revelation Vermouth was Sharon occurred during the confrontation with Vermouth. Vermouth never confirmed Jodie's accusation, but she certainly didn't deny it. Conan and Akai also came to the same conclusion that Vermouth is Sharon as well. For an explanation about how Jodie, Akai, and Conan came to their conclusions, please see the below links.Jodie's discovery Chris Vineyard, Sharon Vineyard and Vermouth are the same person Conan's discovery Chris Vineyard, Sharon Vineyard and Vermouth are the same person

They're all good. The last two (kidnapping Conan and getting threatened by Conan) would be great for the timeline.

We need pictures for Vermouth and Vermouth timeline. I would lift some from the German Wiki but that would make CarpetCrawler sad, and when CarpetCrawler is sad, everyone is sad.

Conan doesn't want Okiya to learn much about Shinichi - because Conan is paranoid even around allies.

He doesn't have to know. He just has to get a pair of glasses that look similar to the ones the vic had. The police are unlikely to check the glasses prescription to see if they actually are the vic's glasses. Also the poison was on the vic's real glasses. The one's Taninaka swapped in after Saizu died and are in police custody are fake. Taninaka was definitely able to switch them out if he wanted. The glasses were a little ways from the body. Taninaka knelt down next to the body despite what Conan yelled. You can see from the art he knelt down so his body was between where the glasses were and Conan's line of sight. He could have swapped them out behind his back.

Here is the shot at the solution

I'm now thinking the glasses (rather than the handkerchief) were what was poisoned and the barber switched them with the ones he prepared in advance when he approached the body. Saizu had to hold the glasses with his other hand to clean the lenses. When you get your hair cut, glasses must be taken off which gives the barber the perfect opportunity to apply poison. The barber has a pair of glasses in a glasses case when searched; these are likely the victim's pair. Additionally, the barber held back Conan from entering to prevent him, Kogoro, and the police inside from noticing his glasses fogged up and needed cleaning. I will work on a more complete exposition later to make sure poisoning the glasses would result in the poison getting on the correct hand and cause poison stains in the right places. I also need to elaborate on how the barber would plan to make Saizu take the chopsticks with the proper hand after sitting in the right seat.

Obligatory theory trioHow Akai faked his death Okiya is Akai Scar Akai is Bourbon The BO might snipe at their own member if Bourbon failed to tell Gin what he was up to, which is possible because Gin said he had no idea what Bourbon was up to and didn't care for him much. Haibara did actually have a bad reaction because of Akai's presence. Twice in fact.

The Miyanos would have started research too late to have caused Vermouth's problem. Atsushi Miyano moved out of the house from the tape case (423-425) thirty years ago to go somewhere for his research. That's too young. Instead, I think something else stopped Vermouth's aging and the Org had the Miyanos research Vermouth to try to replicate what caused her to stop aging. Unfortunately this didn't produce a cure and frankly she has gotten tired of being forced to stand still in life and hide when everyone else moves on. (She's probably also tired of getting stabbed by two generations of Miyanos for samples.) You are correct in saying that it was only after Sharon switched did Jodie uncover that she was the one who killed her father. However, I think there was reason to think that Sharon was an FBI target before her death. Why was Jodie at Sharon's funeral in the first place after all? My thoughts are that very late into the twenty years, the FBI began to look into Sharon Vineyard as a member of the Org, but not knowing she was the person who killed Jodie's dad. Akai Shuuichi had infiltrated the Org five years ago and was rejected two years before the current timeline. The info that tipped the FBI off that Sharon was someone to be interested in may have come from him. Sharon noticed the FBI moving around her and switched. After this, Jodie heard Chris at the funeral say "A secret makes a woman, woman". She realized after the switch that Chris was the person who killed her father, but was too young, etc. I am kind of confused about what you are trying to say here. I think you are saying Kir could have falsified her resume in order to get herself into showbiz, but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about the BO.I am pretty sure that the BO could falsify a resume if they wanted. I am not saying Sharon just starred out of nowhere with no prior acting experience. What I am saying is the BO wanted her to become an actress, so she started an acting career, and because of her natural talent and the BO's power helping in the background, she got good positions and quickly worked her way up into a position where she could take lead roles. Remember, Vermouth is one of the most capable BO members out there. Soon after meeting Conan and Haibara, she found a target, Dr. Araide, to swap with close to them, staked him out, learned his habits and background, switched with him, and began doing his fulltime job. While she has a full time job running the clinic and being the Teitan nurse, at the same time she starts looking for the FBI who came after her. She steals and returns Kogoro's records to lure out the FBI and stakes them out to find where they live, how many there are, and how to contact them (42-9, 11). Then she goes online, tracks down a suitable target she can blackmail into committing a murder, gets all sort of background info on a random guy, all while executing her plan to capture Haibara, keeping abreast of the FBI's movements, and working a full time doctor's job. And most likely Vermouth did most of this work by herself. If she has the ability to work this hard to get Haibara, then she could have worked hard to be an actress. Or she could have been saying ironic things. Or maybe she was referring to her job when she was still in the Sharon's mother before her anti aging accident? So here is an example version of a timeline for Vermouth where I have tried to keep Vermouth's age real age to a minimum. There is more flexibility if Vermouth is actually older. •Vermouth is ~25-30 (55-60 years before the current timeline) - Something halts Vermouth's aging. You could call this the project start date even though it may have been going on before and Vermouth may not know she was not aging yet. The reason is that if Vermouth was exposed to something that halts aging, someone around her responsible for getting her exposed is likely to be working on a project with the intent of lengthening lifespan or something like that. •Vermouth is ~30-35 (50-55 years before the current timeline) Vermouth realizes she is not aging and she now knows she is going to need a false identity to become or else people around her are going to start to notice. Creating a false child identity isn't as hard as it sounds back then because there were no electronic records that are easy to check on and with bribery, fake papers, and whatnot, it's possible to create a proper paper trail especially if she has the Black Org's help (or what will become the Black Org). Vermouth could pretend her child was adopted or something like that at an older age so she could switch in sooner. You could also assume this was the project start date as well. In the ~20 year interim between her current state she could become Sharon, she could work on disguise and acting, skills necessary for being an actress and for creating the appearance of a daughter if necessary. •Vermouth is ~50-55 (30-35 years before the current timeline) Vermouth now has the ability to swap into her Sharon role who aged to approximately just graduated from high school age. She rises to stardom and kills off Sharon's mom when she debuts in a movie and takes up Sharon's role in full. She starts working on backdating the Chris identity I assume by faking a pregnancy or something like that. The Miyanos start their research 30 years prior to the current timeline. Vermouth kills Jodie's father 20 years prior to the current timeline. ~20 years ago Sharon learns disguise from Kuroba Toichi (Yukiko learned disguise back when she was a beginning actress. She started her career while in high-school. Yukiko is 37) •Vermouth is ~70-75 (~10 years before the current timeline) Chris has become old enough to disguise as because role has aged to approximately just graduated from high school age. She begins to work on Chris's stardom, but keeps Chris's private life a secret •Vermouth is ~80-85 (<1 years before the current timeline) Vermouth kills off Sharon and takes up Chris full time. The thing is Yukiko did not "assure her words" as you said. Yukiko said "You once told me you taught Chris disguising techniques because she begged for them." Sharon replies "I haven't seen her for almost ten years... All I know is she is hanging out with a bad crowd. Anyway lets go park the car and get to the dressing room already. Besides those patrons are starting to notice that there is no camera running...." Basically Sharon switched the subject so there was no chance for Yukiko to affirm the ten years thing.Let me point out I'm not disagreeing with the original point that Sharon worked on creating Chris over 10 years ago, only pointing out you can't rely on what Yukiko says because she heard it through Sharon. Sorry for the long post and if it has grammar mistakes. It took a long time to finish and I just wanted to get it over with.

This is a pretty interesting case. The vic talked about suicide, but unless he really, really, really wanted revenge against the ramen shop, there was no reason for him to commit suicide to run it into the ground. It also helps that we have three suspects making it less likely its a "how-dunnit". I wonder if he was planning to fake being poisoned/ use less than lethal drugs (like an emetic) to drive the shop under in order to acquire it because his own business wasn't powerful enough through finance. Maybe he cooperated with the real culprit who backstabbed him by using real poison? I am looking forward to hearing about where the poison was found. The ramen shop people didn't seem to know that Saizu Tokumori was coming which limits their ability to prepare something ahead of time. It would also be surprising that they had poison on them ready to go. (Unless they were waiting for the guy to show up one day.) I suspect Saizu knew something about the dead regular because he went straight to that spot and knocked over the flower cup. Saizu might have also been involved with the guy's death. In general, I don't think the poison was put on the chopsticks on the far right even though no one should sit there. That's because someone sitting in the second seat from the right might reach for them, even over the flower vase. This creates the possibility of poisoning an unintended target. There were no chopsticks in the bucket in front of Conan's seat so the option was to go for the far left ones or the far right ones. Conan went for the far right. Of the suspects: Ogura Katsumasa could have put the poison in the ramen. I am going to rule that out because that would be too straightforward to make a case. He was behind the counter most of the time, so he didn't have many opportunities unless he was going to toss pellets of poison. Poisoning someone in his own shop would be bad for business and he seems to have the will to want to keep the shop alive, even if he hated Saizu. It would be better for him to call Saizu out somewhere to talk about selling the shop and then poison him there. Oohashi Sayo could have put the poison on the bottom of the glass she slammed down, poisoning the puddle and anticipating it would soak through the handkerchief and get on the Saizu's fingers making it look like a suicide. She could have put it in Saizu's waterglass as well, but again too straightforward. Taninaka Atsushi, the barber, has the best tricky strategies and most likely the advantage of knowing Saizu would go the ramen shop after getting his hair cut. He prevented Conan from having chopsticks passed from Saizu, which could indicate he's trying to stop Conan from being poisoned. (It reminds me of the poisoning case right before Golden apple case.) He could have pickpocketed Saizu's handkerchief or smeared poison on his clothing in a specific spot while cutting the guy's hair, meaning the vic walked in with the poison on him. Also poisoning Saizu in the ramen shop might put it out of business and allow him to acquire the land to expand the barber shop's footprint.

The mom showed up to talk with Asami through a door in Mitsuhiko's disappearance case. We didn't get to see her though.

I think we both seem to be agreeing that some points from the movies are probably canon. I can agree with that. It's just figuring out which ones are and which ones aren't. My position is to assume the manga trumps all, and Kaito Kid in the manga doesn't seem to know Conan's identity.

He will know Conan is Shinichi by the end. As one of the three main characters, it makes sense that he will get caught up in the BO plot in the "final problem". He'll figure out Shinichi was making deductions for him. I don't think he will simply go back to business as normal when Shinichi permanently reverts. He could go back into the detective business entirely for infidelity and stalker investigations which he does seem to do well, return to the force, retire (but somehow I doubt funds will let him do that), or get back with Eri and mooch off of her moolah (I think he has too much pride for that).

I'll ask Abs., but you can tell by the lack of effects the movies have on the manga. It is like the movies never happened. Take the Raven chaser. Tokyo met and the government would be hot on the Black Org's arse after what they did to the Tokyo tower. You can't fly a military helicopter into the middle of Tokyo and not have it noticed and not have someone try to figure out where and how they got it. If it were canon, the entire police department would be all over it as their officers were attacked. I'm sure the investigation would have been mentioned. It's totally off Black Org MO anyway as they usually shoot for subtlety. Another example is the 6th movie. Sentient computers. Virtual reality pods. Need I say more? Some things from the movies do trickle down to the manga and I would believe that Gosho intended things like Hattori's first meeting with Kazuha to be canon, but my opinion is that it is better to assume they are unconfirmed until explicitly mentioned in the manga.

Yuusaku didn't actually do that that though, only said he COULD ask them. Conan then told Yuusaku to bugger off because it was his case. Also that weird text you use with smilies and foreign characters in it replacing normal characters, it's irritating.

I doubt it is as simple as (current age - 10 years), but we would have to see the effects on someone older to be sure.

What interpol officers?

But it's not canon for the manga. The manga and movie canon are different. There are no hints in the manga that Kaito Kid knows Conan is Shinichi; sure Kaito Kid knows Conan is abnormally smart and probably knows about the bowtie, but that doesn't doesn't mean Kaito Kid thinks Conan is a shrunken someone instead of a child prodigy. As proof, compare how Kaito Kid in the movies behaves versus the manga. In the movies, Kaito Kid teases Conan about being Shinichi frequently. The beginning of Movie 8 is a perfect example. In the manga there is no such "Shinichi teasing", only the regular generic sort.Additionally, I would think it's strange for Kaito to suspect something was amiss with Conan's identity, although I wouldn't be surprised if he is wondering what is up with Conan. If we are going to be rigorous, all the evidence that Kaito can use to deduce Conan's identity must have come from the cases that occurred before the third movie chronologically when it was first shown that Kaito Kid knows. Movie three came out into theaters April 17, 1999. The plot of the movie was probably decided a year before. Only three (I assume) cases with Kaito had appeared in the manga before the screen time: Kaito Kid on a boat (156-159), The Meeting of Magicians in the snowy cabin (192-196), and I am going to guess the Magic Kaito Clocktower meeting. That's not much interaction time with Conan for Kid to base deductions off of. For Kaito Kid to realize Conan and Shinichi are the same person he needs to make four observations and connect the dots. #1: Conan is not like a normal Kid - I believe Kaito figured this out the first time he met Conan on the roof of the Haido City hotel. By the end of the meeting of the magicians, I'm sure he is impressed with Conan's deductive abilities. #2: Kudo Shinichi went missing the same time Conan appeared. - First off, does Kaito Kid even care that much about Shinichi? Shinichi only showed up at one of Kaito's heists, so it's not like Shinichi was ever a regular concern like Hakuba or Inspector Nakamori. In other words, Shinichi should be low on Kaito's interest list; would Kid even notice that Shinichi has been out of the papers recently and if so, does he care since they only met once previously? Also, even if he noticed that Shinichi disappeared around the same time Kogoro began to hit the papers, it's not like Conan's presence was published along with it. Kid would have to hammer down that Conan didn't appear before or after Kogoro started hitting the stands. Eisuke managed to figure this out, so it isn't impossible; however, Eisuke had an extremely strong motivating interest to closely examine the goings on of the detective agency that Kaito Kid does not have: Rena's disappearance after Kogoro met with her. Additionally, Shinichi has appeared at least once in person at a case before the third movie and has tricked Ran into believing Shinichi and Conan are two separate people as well. Since then, Conan has constructed even more elaborate tricks to solidify the identity alibi. In effect, every other character acts like Shinichi is out on a tough case, so if Kaito probed and discovered this, why would he suspect that it is not the truth when it is the most obvious thing to assume when Kaito did not witness any of the events and thus has no clues about how Conan managed to create the illusion that Conan and Shinichi exist simultaneously? Even if Kaito began to suspect that a case was not the thing holding up Shinichi, the next most logical thing would be that Kudo got into some trouble and is in hiding. In short, there isn't a good reason for Kaito to conclude Shinichi is gone when there are more reasonable hypotheses, especially when the motivation to go deeper isn't there. #3: Conan and Shinichi are a lot alike. - This is going to be difficult for Kaito who had never met Shinichi personally and thus will not have anyone to compare Conan to. On the personality side, Kaito Kid didn't even get the chance to acquaint himself with Shinichi's deduction style at the clocktower heist because he wasn't listening directly to Shinichi making deductions or giving orders, only watching how the police seemed to do a very good job of tracking him. As for physical details, he may notice how Conan and Shinichi look alike if he remembers Shinichi's face from older papers (if he cared enough about Shinichi to notice in the first place), but Conan is supposed to be related to Shinichi so it is also reasonable to assume they are coincidentally similar looking. #4: Shinichi somehow de-aged and turned into Conan - It definitely requires some imagination to even suspect something like this happened. Eisuke came to this conclusion but decided not to puzzle out how it happened but assumed it did based on his strong convictions about 1-3 above. I suppose if Kaito Kid believes in the Pandora thing which probably isn't canon to DC, then he might accept that Shinichi shrank into Conan, but it would have to be a least preferred logical conclusion.

New might mean he only go his alcohol codename recently, but has actively been working for the BO for a while as a lower level agent. I don't think Gin and Vodka wouldn't know so much about a completely new agent. Gin seems to familiar enough with him: he would have had to meet with and work with him probably a few times before in order to know about his personality and dislike him. Vodka knows about the hate of Akai thing already. No, I am not talking about Kaneshiro Genichirou. I am talking about the old man from the Camel's Past story in File 607 pg 9. Camel came out and told him to go away, which blew Akai's cover and got him rejected from the Org.

Now that I look at it, Mitsuhiko's parent's gender is drawn a bit ambiguously. I suppose it could go either way.

It's been a little under twelve years since Kaito Kid found out in the films. If it was to be I think it would have happened by now.

The problem is that the movies are not canon to the main manga storyline. Sometimes things trickle down like Shiratori and Yamamura's promotion, but most of it never happens manga-wise. A perfect example is how Kid knows Conan is Shinichi in the movies, but doesn't know in the manga.