Glass Heart
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Everything posted by Glass Heart
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I agree, everything is subject to interpretation and, even though it's appear deliberately deceptive during the first reading, it takes its true meaning later. I think that's also the case of the Masumi scene at the end of the recent Youtube plot. Now, I think Gosho Aoyama shows us the BO to make Scar Akai very suspicious because that's from their dialogues that we know most informations about the character (during this very plot), to the point Gin also seems to point him out as Bourbon. It's not that I think Scar Akai can't be Bourbon from the story point of view, but I just can't buy it. Narratively speaking, Aoyama, as an author of detective story, wouldn't have any interest to point out so much at its true culprit, to make him the main culprit. I think it's a deception to make the reader focus on the wrong suspect. Still, Gin's lines are clear: Bourbon was involved in the case. Meaning he could either be Subaru or Scar Akai, or even a person we don't seriously think to be a suspect (André Camel ?). Scar Akai's intentions are also really strange. Whoever he is, why did he do all this ? I wondered if it wasn't to lure the BO out to confront them, but he wouldn't have simply disappear during Conan's diversion if that was the case. As for Conan, he seems to think Scar Akai could be the real deal for the time being (otherwise he wouldn't have tried so hard to save him), meaning that maybe he really doesn't know what happened to Akai after his supposed death. Edit: No, obviously, there's something I'm missing completely in this case. I read it like a dozen times and I still can't figure out why Scar Akai appears in this chapter, what his true intention is. There should be some elements somewhere which, if interpreted well, could bring some logical explanations about what's truly going on.
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The main objection I have with Occam's rzor is that it could also be used by the writer to mislead the reader. Merging two characters into one entity based of their similarities would have been a crucial mistake during Vermouth's arc where Jodie shared many similarities with her and was the "obvious" suspect. And, apart of the fact that they are both left-handed and their common taste for Bourbon, they also display strong differences such as Shuichi being an heavy smoker while Subaru isn't. There personalities are also very different and each possess skills that the other hasn't yet to shown (Shuichi is good at shooting, Subaru is good at close combat...). Even though Shuichi could be "playing" Subaru, their differences are more prominent than their similarities for the Occam's rzor to apply (the Occam's rzor privilegiates the obvious answer as the truth, and I don't think Subaru being Shuichi is that obvious for what we've seen of those characters, despite some similarities), and Subaru could as well be a totally distinct character for what we know until now. Subaru being Shuichi would also imply that Shuichi is able to disguise himself or to have someone to do it for him. A skill which could have been useful during his investigations in Vermouth's arc, Vermouth knowing his face and the fact he's FBI. If he had the means to disguise, he took unneccessary risks which could have compromised Jodie's cover and safety (during the bus hidjacked case) and the secrecy of the FBI's involvement in a mission to identify and capture Vermouth. Taking such a risk to expose themselves wouldn't be in the temper of Akai who anticipated and took the necessary measures to prevent Kogoro Mouri's involvement in their war against the BO. The recent chapters shows that Akai is spying on Conan's whereabout, thus the possibility of him learning about the spare trade of tracking glasses without anyone saying him is strong. Plus, Shuichi Akai didn't know anything about a spare trade.
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For Haibara's black sense, there was a case before where Haibara hasn't sensed Kichiro Numabuchi's presence. Kichiro Numabuchi was a man in black for a very short time, so we can suspect that she didn't feel her presence because he is no longer a BO member and because he wasn't one for long. Now, if I take Subaru Okiya's case, Ai Haibara feels his black aura only when he's angry at some criminal (or at least nervous). I wonder if what Haibara feels isn't in fact hostility. Kichiro Numabuchi wasn't dangerous during Mitsuhiko's case, only searching for a moment of peace, and Subaru has a protective nature toward her (which could be an attempt to make him appear more sympathetic to the reader and less likely to be Bourbon). The moments when Haibara feels the black auras clearly, that's when she's around psychopaths like Gin, Vodka, Vermouth, Chianti and Korn, all wanting to kill her (she hasn't meet directly Vermouth since she stops to hunt her, except in movie 13). And for the similarities about Subaru and Akai, Bourbon is said to be Akai's nemesis so, if Subaru is Bourbon, they could share some similar traits (such as being left-handed or provoking the same reaction to Haibara but not for the same reason). Or maybe, in his obsession toward Akai, Subaru/Bourbon became left-handed because he wants to fight Akai as an equal with firearms. Now, for Subaru's sentence "I've know him for so long ! There's no way I'm mistaken !", if Subaru is Bourbon, that could mean taht he knew Akai since childhood (Akai in the BO wouldn't be "so long"). Maybe they're even brothers (they seem to be approximatively around the same age).
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But still, this is strange. Aoyama said clearly that Masumi could be the sister of a character, and about Scar Akai he almost makes Gin said that he is Bourbon. Unless all that is to mislead the reader, I really don't understand why he almost reveal the key revelations of the Bourbon's arc. In fact, that's one of the main reason I think Scar Akai couldn't be Bourbon. It's too obvious that he can't be the real Akai and so Scar Akai being Bourbon is a very likely idea for the reader given his hatred for him (which is explained during the same story). And Gin seems to confirm it directly, which is even more suspectful. Still, except Bourbon, we have no way to think of any other possible role for Scar Akai for the time being. I really think he can't be Bourbon for real, but I have not the singlest clue about who he could be yet. And there is also something that bothers me: the reader has informations about Bourbon that even Conan and the FBI don't have, such as Bourbon being a detective and hating Akai. But ultimately, Aoyama's goal is to deceive the reader until the resolution, to give him false leads. And Aoyama probably gave us these informations about Bourbon during this case to make Scar Akai even more suspectful (if he wanted to hide Scar Akai/Bourbon, he could have said it at any other story where Scar Akai doesn't appear), while the BO member's true identity could only be revealed to the reader by Conan. And all that naturally deviates the suspicions from Subaru Okiya to Scar Akai, but maybe the first suspect was the real deal all the time (I don't say that I'm absolutely sure he is Bourbon, but he's my main suspect).
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SPOILERS from a recent Aoyama Interview
Glass Heart replied to justwantanaccount's topic in Manga series
It means much more than that: -
Well, good for you but you could have at least quoted the person who thought that theory because he deserves the credit of it. Gin asking Kir to kill Akai was to confirm his suspicions about Kir. He suspects Akai has let them take Kir back too easily. So he asks Kir to kill Akai to confirm her allegiance to them. At least, that's what he wants Kir to think. She has already killed a mole years ago so Gin would probably think that, if Kir is a double-agent, she could kill to protect her cover. So killing Akai wouldn't prove anything. I think what Gin really wanted is to confirm if, whether or not, Kir had any contact with the FBI. She says she faked coma the whole time, but Gin suspects she could be in touch with the FBI. If she really had no contact with the FBI, then she couldn't know Akai's phone number, even under Gin's threats to call him. During Akai's "murder", Kir was surprised that things went so well but, if Gin has already figured her out, he could be making them the thing easy (he seems to trust Kir despite all the doubts he could have regarding her "performance" on screen, which is even more suspicious coming from a very paranoid person). He could be planning something. Of course, whatever his intentions are, Gin could not pretend anymore to have been fooled once "Akai" has reappeared. But I'm confident enough that, if Gin has at least the slightest suspicion, he wouldn't hesitate to kill any potential menace, except if he has some plan involving the traitor (for example, he could give the organization's enemies false informations through Kir).
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Yes, pretty much ! But I think there are some hints... somewhere... But you're right, Aoyama is very careful. Edit: For the "black/white" thing, I found the japanese equivalents. Black is kuro and white is shiro, but that doesn't help much. Still, Kuroshiro seems to be a name in Japan but I don't remember a character of that name. Edit 2: My mistake, there are several characters with "black" in their name: James Black, Toichi Kuroba and Kaito Kuroba. And one with "white": Shiro Suzuki (but this character doesn't seem to have appeared in the manga yet).
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I don't suspect James Black. Putting "Black" on his name was to mislead the reader. But the fact that the head of the FBI is called Black, and the fact that there are some oppositions between FBI and BO (Jodie/Vermouth, Akai/Bourbon), I wonder if there is a character whose name means "white". But that's just a supposition and maybe it would be too easy. Other than that, since the BO is specialized in political murder and industrial espionnage, it could all well be someone with some social status like a politician, an high-ranked policeman, a businessman, a judge or something like that. The problem being that there are lot of characters with this kind of profile.
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Well, maybe a stupid idea, but is there a character in Detective Conan which name means either black or white ? Edit: I hadn't thought of it but, yes there is: James Black. And he's the chief of the FBI, so if there is a character which name means white, maybe my idea isn't so stupid.
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"-That's strange ! Mitsuhiko and Pikachu have the same voice ! -That's not possible ! -Pi-ka ! -HUH ?? -Pika Pi ??" lol !
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Rikiya Koyama voices Wolverine in three of the four series: Iron-Man, Wolverine and X-Men (all set in the same universe). His american counterpart, Milo Ventimiglia, will probably do the same as well. The series is excellent. I strongly recommand it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2jTogBrWrA The Story The X-Men confronts the Dark Phoenix, which happens to be their comrade and friend Jean Grey. At the end of the fight, Jean Grey is no more, but Cyclops has strong suspicions that Emma Frost of the Hellfire Club's Inner Circle is responsible for Jean's going berserk. From this day on, the Xavier institute closes his doors. One year later, Charles Xavier is contacted by old acquaintances living in Tohoku, Japan. The Ichiki family fears that their mutant daughter, Hisako, might have been kidnapped. Xavier calls back his former X-Men. All responds back but one, Cyclops, the former leader of the group, which has now sunk into depression following Jean's death, woth whom he was romantically involved. In the end, Wolverine and Storm convinces him to come back, but he's no longer the same man. While in Japan, the X-Men realize that there are several mysteries surrounding the Tohoku region. Many young mutants have disappeared recently, probably kidnapped, but their parents don't report them to the police, fearing mutant persecutions. Also, several people for the region are developping a second mutation with physical changes. Some of them have even been experiencing the effects of a mutant disease called the Damon Hall syndrome, transforming them into monsters. The mutants of Tokoku are now living in fear of becoming one of those monsters, losing their humanity both physically and mentally. While the X-Men must rescue the children and find a vaccine against the Damon Hall Syndrome, they must also investigate the area to determine what lies behind all those strange events. At the core of the mystery, the Sasaki institute, once a home for young mutants, now an almost abandonned complex. Yui Sasaki, professor Xavier's former lover, could well be detaining the answers the X-Men are seeking for. Commentaries X-Men is a series developped by the studio Madhouse. Even though it's adapted from the Marvel comics, Madhouse has brought the characters into its own universe of japanese horror with science-fiction elements. This is not your casual story about super heroes, the ambiance is very different, mysterious and gloomy. But the story is excellent, the animation is awesome and there are several very interesting introspecting scenes, giving more depth to some characters (especially Cyclops and Emma Frost). From the four animated series based on the X-Men universe, this one is my favorite. The japaneses have given the X-Men the series they truly deserve. X-Men is the third series of the Marvel Anime collection consisting of anime adaptations of Iron-Man, Wolverine, X-Men and Blade. Each series is composed of 12 episodes. Casting Cyclops: Toshiyuki Morikawa Storm: Aya Hisakawa Wolverine: Rikiya Koyama Beast: Hideyuki Tanaka Emma Frost: Kaori Yamagata Hisako Ichiki: Yukari Tamura Charles Xavier: Katsunosuke Hori Yui Sasaki: Yoshiko Sakakibara Mastermind: Haruhiko Jo Jean Grey: Yurika Hino Takeo: Atsushi Abe Jake: Rintaro Nishi Todd: Wataru Takagi Rat: Manabu Sakamaki Marsh: Yuichi Nakamura Neuron: Yutaka Aoyama
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The TV series Ranma adapted approximatively the half of the manga, ending with the episode where Ranma meets his mother. After that, 13 OVAs were produced, continuing (by not concluding) the story. The true end of Ranma is still only in the manga.
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For Vermouth, you're right. I didn't thought of that. For Scar Akai, I don't think he could be Bourbon and having his own phone: it's unlikely that Bourbon would send an incomplete deduction to Mouri if he has access to the internet. Either Bourbon has no phone, and that explains completely why he borrowed one, but why would he give himself the trouble to give it back to his owner when he could just leave it on the floor without being seen by anyone ? Either Scar Akai is someone else, but then why being so careful about his identity and still showing his Scar Akai face deliberately when he could have avoided it easily ? The only thing I could thought of is that, whoever he is, he wanted Mouri or Conan to know that "Akai" was here. But for what reason ? But still, thanks to User 4869 and you to have answered me and sharing your thoughts. User 4869: I guess you're right. But why would he want them to think that Akai is still alive ? What would be his intention behind it ?
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By the way, Chekhov MacGuffin, there are some points that I found kinda suspicious and I'd like to have your opinion on it, since you have thought a lot about Akai's death and Scar Akai's appearances. 1) After the death of Akai, in your theory, you say that the police kept the phone as evidence, even after they have the results. But is it possible that Vermouth, who appears just after, could have impersonated Takagi to keep the phone at this moment (if the BO has some doubts, the fingerprints on the phone could later be useful to them) ? 2) During the hostage crisis, Scar Akai "borrows" a phone to mail Kogoro. Either he truly has no phone or he doesn't want to use it since he could later be identified because of his phone number. He also uses an handkerchief to avoid leaving fingerprints on the phone. For someone who is so careful about not leaving any trace behind, I find it strange that he gives himself the trouble to restitute the phone to its true owner. He could have left it on the floor (if he doesn't care) or put it back discretly. Unless he wanted to be seen on purpose of course (maybe he wanted to be describe to Mouri or Conan), but why ?
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Oh, I have already read your theories and I think they are good. Even though I don't really share some of your deductions, I found them very interesting and well-documented. For the culprits, it was a coincidence. Masumi knew about it before the case even started so Conan finds her suspicious. But Subaru's attitude is odd: after seeing Masumi, he follows Ai (and we know he acts very protective toward her, for a reason or another). Somehow, he feels that something can happen to Ai (or he fears that something can happen to her) and during the whole time the Detective Boys thought that Ayumi could have been mistaken for Haibara, when they thought she could have been the true goal of the kidnappers, his attitude is even more ambiguous. Based on the fact that Masumi talks about the video before the case and the fact that we see her saying "Deletion. For data at least is an easy task to accomplish." strongly suggests Masumi is Bourbon and plotting to "delete" Haibara (which is the goal of the men in black). That's probably what Aoyama wants us to think. Now, Subaru's attitude during the whole case, I think it can be explained if he himself is aware of the video before the case even begins. He could fear that someone could have find the video and is coming for Haibara for some reason, and Masumi comes and begins to ask questions. This someone can't be Black Organization because, whoever he is (Bourbon or someone else, even Akai), he probably knows like Conan that it's not the BO methods. But still, he seems worried for the children once Ayumi's kidnapping is confirmed. Now, how could Masumi and maybe Subaru (if I'm right) could have found that video by the first place (especially since Masumi knew about "some professor" previously but can't even remember his name) ? I think the fact that Eri's video is back to back with Agasa's video could provide an answer to that. They could have found that video by searching informations about Eri on the net. Now, my main mistake could be how I interpreted Masumi's lines during the deletion of Haibara's video. I thought the lines imply too strongly that Masumi is planning to "delete" Haibara (like the BO would do), so I thought she couldn't be the killer and that Haibara can't be the true target. Why would Masumi suggests an assassination and investigate on the target if she's not the killer ? I thought maybe she tries to prevent it (she's a detective after all, she can try to deduce a criminal's objective) and Subaru is in fact the real killer. And who could be the target if it's not really Haibara like Masumi's line tries to make us think (especially if Subaru is the killer, it would have no sense considering his protective attitude toward Ai and the fact that he doesn't project any hostile black aura toward her unlike the other BO members) ? I thought of the video about Eri (which is here "randomly" in the case itself, but maybe Aoyama put it here on purpose because this element could have some importance on a larger scale). So I came to the conclusion that Subaru could be planning the murder of Eri Kisaki. And, if I guessed right, that Subaru, a detective planning a murder, could well be Bourbon. Now, why would Masumi investigate on an assassination attempt to prevent it ? And how would have she learned about an assassination attempt taking place at first ? That's the main question I'm still wondering and, so far, I can only guess she is working with the CIA, the FBI not knowing her. That's the line of reasonning I had. But, as you said, it's maybe too soon to jump to conclusions like that. She could be Akai's sister, that's true. But I try to think about some other possible explanations until it's confirmed.
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Of course, that implies that she lies on her age (she could have done that to join Ran's school). She may be older than 17.
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Chekhov MacGuffin: Yeah, you're right, what I said about Scar Akai is pretty stupid indeed. Now, for the second part, in fact I don't think it's so impossible that Masumi could be employed by the CIA (even if she isn't an agent) and Subaru really being Bourbon. On the assumption that Masumi is Shuichi's sister. But that doesn't necessarily denied my theory about the CIA employing a great high-school detective who lived and grew up in Japan. Maybe I jump to a conclusion too quickly indeed, but I don't think the appearance of this video about Eri was just a coincidence. Even if you're right that we can't assume Bourbon's objective yet, I thought about assassination based on what Masumi said at the end (but that's not very solid, you're right, an Masumi herself can be wrong). But the attitudes of both Subaru and Masumi during this case... Even if my theory isn't solid enough, based on the attitudes of both characters during this case, I still think Subaru is Bourbon (now, I could be proven wrong). That's the only way I can think of (at least for now) that gives some meaning to their strange attitudes.
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I haven't said that a Black Organization member was compromised (both the BO member and Kisaki would be killed right away). Maybe one of their ally or one of their business is compromised by Eri's investigations. She is far too competent to not make herself powerful ennemies. Maybe she has a case that we aren't aware of (we can discover it later) and which compromise somehow with the BO's business (even if she doesn't know it herself, not realizing what she faces against). And that would explain some elements like Eri's video next to Haibara's and the strange line of Sera in the last scene of the case (which would be interpreted differently in this perspective). And that part doesn't seem illogical to me (the part with Scar Akai, I'm less convinced on some elements but that would also explain the lines of Gin and Subaru differently). Now, that's just a theory. You think what seems to be the more credible to you. Aoyama will eventually reveal the truth and maybe we'll all be surprised by something we haven't even thought of.
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It wouldn't have anything to do with what happened to Mouri. Kisaki is a lawyer (and a very good one), she can have a lot of ennemies. She can be on a case that compromise the organization's security in some way. Somehow, I already thought a lawyer as competent as her would eventually interest the organization sooner or later, one way (joining them) or another (plotting her assassination).
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Another theory with the "Subaru Okiya is Bourbon" explanation: The CIA faked Shuichi Akai's death. Thanks to Kir, they know that Bourbon is on the run and Shuichi Akai would inform them of his hatred of him. But even he doesn't know what face Bourbon could have now (he could have undergone plastic surgery). A trap is set. Someone disguise as Akai shows himself until Bourbon comes to investigate. Subaru would know that Scar Akai isn't the real one, probably that several FBI agents are amoung the hostages, waiting for someone other than the FBI to contact Scar Akai, but this trap would make him suspect that Kir is a mole. He looks at the window and understands the situation: Gin also suspects Kir. Scar Akai wouldn't be Bourbon because Bourbon is the equivalent of Sherlock Holmes. If Subaru is able to find a way to gather informations to complete his deduction, why would Scar Akai doesn't think of it and gives Kogoro an incomplete deduction ? At the end of the case, no one contacts Scar Akai. It's a failure ! But Jodie follows him. If Gin sees Jodie following Akai like she was surprised to see him, he would no longer thought Kir to be a mole (he has no mean to know that she is part of the CIA, he most likely thinks that she is from the FBI like Akai). Subaru Okiya would stop Jodie, wanting Gin (with whom he doesn't get along) to suspect Scar Akai to be the real deal (like he thinks at first). Scar Akai and Kir would likely be executed. But Vermouth would have discovered part of the truth and warned Gin (if Scar Akai is a CIA agent and not Akai, they would likely think it was a trap). They are conforted in this after Scar Akai is saved by someone (Conan). Gin calls off the assassination. Gin: "Always doing things as he pleases. That bastard irritates me." Subaru: "It's just a story about a pack of wolves who lost their easy prey." ("... which I almost delivered them" ?) Now, the fact that he stopped Jodie would have been a mistake by Subaru and the CIA would have identified him. Learning that he lives in Shinichi Kudo's abandonned house, they send the best detective they know, Masumi Sera, to discover Bourbon's true intentions (that would explain why this key character of the plot would appear only recently, after the hostages case). The fact that Masumi is affiliated with the police can somehow be apparent by how she reacts during the Mouri agency's hostage case. She seems used to this kind of operation by special forces and she knows exactly how to react and with an impressive self-control. The beginning of her investigation would have been to discover who allowed Subaru to stay in Kudo's house and why he lives there. She makes contact with Kudo's girlfriend and soon comes to suspect that Conan Edogawa is either in contact with Shinichi Kudo or most likely is Shinichi Kudo himself, thus confirming that the boy is still alive and that he is most likely the one who authorized Subaru to live in the mansion. Trying to discover Bourbon's intentions, she comes to the professor's house to gather informations. Subaru is very protective of Haibara and, thinking the she would be in danger during the Youtube case, he follows her. Masumi would have spied the whole time and, learning about the video with Haibara, she would search for it. And now, for my theory about Bourbon's real assignment (from the perspective "Subaru is Bourbon"): Subaru would have discovered the video with Ai for some reason that Masumi wants to discover. She can be sure he has seen it because he knew right away that Haibara could be in a danger of some kind (strangely, Bourbon has some reason to be protective toward her) even without the kidnapping and, knowing her well, he recognizes her and follows the group. He likely thinks that the kidnappers could be the Black Organization. In fact, when after the kidnapping, Aoyama shows us a moment where Subaru spies on the Detective Boys when they learned about the video with Conan commenting about the Black Organization's methods which aren't those of the kidnappers, Subaru already knew about the video, but the way it is shown suggest he doesn't. His attitude by following Haibara before the kidnapping betrays the fact that he knew about the video and that's an important clue to Masumi (who have spied on everyone). She makes her own investigation about the video and discovers that Subaru would have likely find it it by searching for informations about Eri Kisaki and finding her own video with the cat. Then, there is this famous ambiguous scene that suggests that Masumi is Bourbon (even Conan suspects something about her, which makes her even more suspicious): we see her looking at the video of Haibara and deleting it with the line "Deletion. For data, at least, is an easy task to accomplish". The most direct meaning of this scene is that Masumi is Bourbon and planning to target Haibara, spying on her. But in fact, we could interprete this as Masumi having finally completed her mission by discovering Bourbon's true objective: the assassination of master Eri Kisaki.
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We don't know Scar Akai's intentions. We don't even kno who he is really (whether he is Bourbon or not). There's still missing pieces and, even though there's elements to theorize that Scar Akai might be Bourbon (like Chekhov has gathered them very well), we can't be sure yet. Even though that's a popular theory (and a good one), I don't think we can consider Scar Akai as Bourbon as a fact, not yet. For Masumi's dark side, well, the fact that she is okay that a criminal is shot to death or the fact she actually spies on people by acting friendly. I don't know what her true intentions are, but the girl has already shown some kind of a dark side in her. Actually more than Subaru did until now in fact. I mean, even during the Ikkaku rocks' case, Subaru acted in a way that no one was seriously injured or killed in the end, not even the culprit.
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As I said, Scar Akai being Bourbon or Subaru being Akai, it's still theories, speculations, for now. It can be true, but it can also be something else entirely. We can't consider it as a established fact until it is confirmed. Other than that, I speculate on Masumi's intentions which could be linked to her identity. It's possible that this character, which is sympathic, has a dark side of some kind in her. And it's not sure that Masumi Sera isn't a fake name she uses for her detective activities.
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For the time being, Bourbon being Scar Akai is not a fact but a popular theory. We can't sure about Bourbon's identity until we have confirmation. There is still the possibility of Bourbon being Subaru Okiya, Masumi Sera herself or someone else entirely. Maybe even Camel can be Bourbon for as long as I know.
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I think she is ambidextrous. Maybe she is the daughter/sister of someone killed by Akai (or Scar Akai pretending to be Akai) several years ago and she grew up with a will of revenge against the FBI operative. It would explain why Camel is disturbed. Or maybe she is the daughter of Anokata (her mother ?), and Camel would be the first to suspect something and to discover the boss' identity... and to die before Conan learns the truth from him. It would be thrilling if we learn that the boss is someone familiar to Ran, without knowing its identity yet.