Black Organization's true plan

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Wait..... have Chekhov McMuffin posted his theory here???

No I haven't. The biochemistry agenda is probably immortality and deaging. Pisco implied this in his chat with Shiho. The computer agenda I don't know, but I have recently come to like the idea of simulating a human brain - something like virtually uploading yourself. The extreme difficulty of such a program and heavy AI requirements explain why extremely skilled programmers would be needed, as well as game programmers who do more in AI than other types, and why someone like Itakura wouldn't like it. Both computer and biochem have the same purpose from two different directions, immortality/preserving the mind forever. I might change my mind though on the computer agenda, ask me again in six months.

Also McMuffin, seriously? *facepalms*

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

i had also the idea that the computer program was for virtually uploading of a person, but have my doubts, would gosho really chose this for the computer prog

[Patronus Charm 53]

they are up to no good for sure....

[hopes 237]

I personally think they're trying to create APTX4869 to become immortal like Pandora's power. If Snake is part of the Black Organization, it would be why he wants Pandora so bad. Maybe they need Pandora for research. The volley comet is said to come every 10,000 years. Unless that's coming up soon, they probably want to become immortal and can't wait that long. Perhaps it failed, and they realized it killed instead. So, they started testing it on lab rats. It was rare for them to survive though. So, they started using it to kill people. Maybe... The Boss actually WANTED someone to be shrunk so the research could move forward. There's definitely a chance the Boss knows about Conan.

[Amaranth 52]

I agree with Chelsea-chan

[Black Demon 466]

I hope that they aren't trying to do something stupid like reviving that Renya Karasuma guy...

[Vi Graythorn 50]

i think there going 2 kill everyone on the planet

[Patronus Charm 53]

i think there going 2 kill everyone on the planet

including me???

no...

*shakes head*

if they will, they won't be considered most powerful people you know... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I personally think they're trying to create APTX4869 to become immortal like Pandora's power. If Snake is part of the Black Organization, it would be why he wants Pandora so bad. Maybe they need Pandora for research. The volley comet is said to come every 10,000 years. Unless that's coming up soon, they probably want to become immortal and can't wait that long. Perhaps it failed, and they realized it killed instead. So, they started testing it on lab rats. It was rare for them to survive though. So, they started using it to kill people. Maybe... The Boss actually WANTED someone to be shrunk so the research could move forward. There's definitely a chance the Boss knows about Conan.

The Black Org and the Magic Kaito Org are supposed to be completely different. Also, there is no magic in Detective Conan because that would break a fundamental rule of golden age style detective stories (which DC is): no supernatural explanations. Also, if the boss wanted someone to shrink for testing, why would Haibara tell Shinichi that she thought the Org would kill him before Shiho could see him (which is why Haibara marked him as dead on the Org report)?

Also taking over the world is a bit... extreme. None of the members have shown any aspirations towards world domination. Taking over the underworld is a possibility maybe, but I don't even think the Org is going that far. I think the Org's only current main goal is its biochem/computer research goal whatever that is.

[Black Demon 466]

I find it odd that the BO has never intended to capture Sherry back and force her to finish her incomplete project. Since the Boss is cautious, I don't that think he would risk bringing a traitor back to the Org; but they even burned the whole lab and there's no sign of them trying to find a new biochemist to replace Sherry... Is the role of the project not that significant and important to them after all ?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I find it odd that the BO has never intended to capture Sherry back and force her to finish her incomplete project. Since the Boss is cautious, I don't that think he would risk bringing a traitor back to the Org; but they even burned the whole lab and there's no sign of them trying to find a new biochemist to replace Sherry... Is the role of the project not that significant and important to them after all ?

As you said right after, once Sherry betrayed once, the boss can't count on her not to sabotage something in revenge. That's why they decided to kill her in the first place.

The Black Organization may be trying to replace Sherry and there is blackmail/other stuff we haven't heard about going on in the background (and we haven't heard about any pharma/biochem cases yet), but it is hard to find a genius scientist (one who will work for a sketchy Org especially!), and more work still for that person to come in, read all of Sherry and her parents' notes, understand the strategies, figure out what is going on, and pick up where she left off. In real life, if the main head of a lab dies (or even someone important) without leaving someone else who can take their place, it usually takes half a year to years even for the lab to really gets back up to full speed. Assuming the BO is rushing, they are probably still way behind on their research. Maybe they could make more of the same APTX because Sherry already had the recipe down but refining APTX is probably out of the question until they can train someone intelligent to understand things as deeply as Sherry did which as I mentioned will take time.

Also, any new options you want to see on the polls or a different first question? I was thinking a new question along the line of "Do you think there are/were other biochemistry projects besides APTX? 4969?" and enabling Multivote on the final question.

[Black Demon 466]

Also, any new options you want to see on the polls or a different first question? I was thinking a new question along the line of "Do you think there are/were other biochemistry projects besides APTX? 4969?" and enabling Multivote on the final question.

Yeah, I think we should change the first question because this poll is a little confusing, and enabling multivote for the last one is not a bad idea after all...

[Miss Smiles 105]

This may say before, I was thinking Gin intend to kill and believe it is a new poison and use it on Shinichi. If it is, I think Gin will not kill Shinichi and think less about it, with possibility, who will listen to Shinichi when he's Conan? And B.O. won't be exactly happy to see FBI was in their way, as they running business producing immortality pill. I agree with first few posters here, Haibara have to start get a new image to fool them.

If B.O. doesn't know of Conan, they underestimate the power of pill's doing and doing their business continuing the killings for sake of living. This could be the reason Vermouth tired of everyday spending with them over it while keeping secrets for many years.

[detectiveRJB 15]

possible!They want too destroy this world.

[Rye 122]

The Black Organization is a syndicate who likes to work secretly, making their first priority to silence all of those who become involved with their plans no matter how small their encounter with the organization was before proceeding with their plans.

The Organization kills, robs, and does horrible crimes. Why? Is it for a certain purpose? Is this purpose so important and significant that the B.O. does crimes against humanity?

Considering all of your ideas and Chekhov-san's post in DCTP, I'll post my theory:

...

BIOCHEMISTRY PLANS

The B.O. recruitss skilled scientists and researchers in order for them to work on a "project".

What is this project?

This is a question that when answered, will lead us to the true intentions of the Black Organization, if not completely, then it will give us a critical hint as gto what their purpose is.

In my opinion, the Organization's reason for all of the killings, crimes, deals, and other stuff are all for one purpose--to achieve either immortality, or deaging, or corporeal reanimation.

Bbut one thing we are sure of is that this purpose violates the law of humanity, achieving something that is unnatural for humans.

RAISING THE DEAD

Corporeal Reanimation, to revive the dead.(Thanks Chekhov-san!)

Maybe the Boss's reason for starting the Organization is that someone dear to him was lost, making his only purpose or goal in life is to revive that person, driving him to do even absolute crimes against humanity just for the sake of reviving this person.

IMMORTALITY

I have no ideas as to this one. Just plain immortality.

Maybe...INVINCIBILITY?

Maybe the Boss wants to be invincible, maybe for immunity from harm, or something...

If we consider the Organization wanting to take over the world, invincibility is essential.

DE-AGING

Maybe the Boss wants to uncover the secrets behind de-aging, to become somewhat immortal. OR, if we consider the Boss to have problems about de-aging( maybe he wants to stop de-aging himself but has no idea on how to), then maybe he thinks that if they can uncover the secrets of de-aging, maybe he can figure out how to reverse de-aging for himself. (I know this idea is unclear.)

CREATING AN ARTIFICIAL HUMAN

This is just an idea, but if it IS true, then for what purpose?

Does Ai know what this project is all about?

Maybe. If she does know, but doesn't tell Conan, in my opinion, it is for his own good. Maybe she thought that if Conan ever knew about it, then he would act recklessly. (I don't know why, it just came to mind.)

Also, if she does know, maybe she won't tell because the idea is too horrible to percieve.

Or, she feels guilty about helping the Organization move closer to achieve this purpose that she refuses to tell Conan about it.

Is it something that only the high members of the Organization know about?

Maybe the other members of the Organization( Those who specialize in robbing, assassinations, etc.) don't even know what their purpose for doing those things is.

I don't know anything else about the Computer Program. Maybe I'll try reading it some other time.

[Ace Detective 1]

I think it was just supposed to be a poison that was untraceable in any autopsy just like gin said when he used it. If it was something more then I am sure they wouldn't want Sherry dead they would want to bring her in to perfect it.

[detectiveRJB 15]

I think it was just supposed to be a poison that was untraceable in any autopsy just like gin said when he used it. If it was something more then I am sure they wouldn't want Sherry dead they would want to bring her in to perfect it.

True!

[Henry Gordan 20]

About the targets of BO I think they are much like SPECTRE in James bond.

SPECTRE= SPecial Executive for Counter-intelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion

[Charala97 23]

I think the MAIN objective of the BO is yet to be uncovered. De-ageing and immortality may help them to gain their primary objective, but I guess it is not their main goal.....

[ThatLee4 10]

Good topic. I think the BO are trying give eternal life and to raise a certain dead person through the pill. As that person has valuable information or knowhow that will help the BO to a more specific longterm mission and goal. Through the programming i believe they are trying to create a high level of AI. Maybe to recapture the persons memory digitally as a programe, or maybe to recreate that mind process.

The reason i say this(bearing in mind it is not cannon and other observation are not DC,) but in movie 6 the young boy programmes his personality into a computer programme. And in Magic Kaito the organisation which is not the BO are looking for eternal life too. This shows the author Gosho is intrested in writing on the topic of people exploring eternal life, simular to Frankenstien and the moral ethics of science and now technology (and in Magic Kaito magic/spitituality) this being said every author has a message to give to their audience in an interesting way. And the detective period he works with does not really deal with magic so this is out of the question.

I would say that Shinich's shrinking to 10 is a side effect so was the intracable poison and Vermont's none aging (as i dont think she is immortal), and Gin may have a low level of invincibility as i believe this is the true purpose of the pill along with raising the dead. But i dont know if Gin is a test subject, but i do believe Vermont is and she had the ATPX 4869 in a different prototype form, and i think she hates living without aging as she lives for too long without friends etc. I believe that that other monster like man who tried to kill Heiji was another test subject with another varied side effect. I think the side effects might be determined by different peoples Dna personality with the letter frim Ai's mum about the silver bullet actually being a pill and the contasting opposite of the APTX 4896, maybe? They are two different pills are they not? Also the programme maybe able to predict moves and maybe eventsand the future. And we know how much Japanese people love fortune telling. Or maybe they are just making games you can play forever without dying (like one kid did) and it has mind control to trick you that the BO dont have body oder.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Something which has got very little attention in the DC fandom was that Gosho said this in the Leaked interview notes from the May issue of the magazine 「ダ・ヴィンチ」 (da Vinci)

どうか！　どうか、あと二つ質問させてください！　黒ずくめの組織の目的とはナニ？　APTX4869の作用から考えると、不老不死が怪しいのでは……。

Please! Please, let me ask 2 more questions! What is the BO’s goal? Going by the APTX4869, I would think immortality…

【青山】「違います。確かにそう思っちゃうよね。今ね、組織の中では大変なことが起こっていますよ」

That’s wrong. It’s true that you’d think that, isn’t it? You see, right now, something really big is happening within the organization.

---

We also have this from a monthly Conan newspaper interview:

I: So then, the black orginization is full of mysteries. But, what sort of orginization are they, and what is their goal? World Conquest?

A: Well, the world....or rather, they want control of lot's of money. They're moving stealthily in the shadows...sort of like (Al) Capone did right? Or, sort of like the image of the bad guys in 007 or something...sitting there stroking a cat. It's probably best not to say too much.

---

The first statement seems to rule out immortality as the primary goal of the BO. Personally, given the pretty good evidence that APTX4869 is supposed to be some sort of deaging/immortality/youth drug, I think Gosho's answer might imply that APTX4869 is something needed to achieve another more important goal rather than trying to say APTX is meant to do something else.

Whatever the BO's greater goal is, it might be very expensive. Gosho says they want control of a lot of money, and not just want a lot of money. That suggests to me the money is a means to an end rather than the end itself. Control seems to suggest they might intend to use it in legit business as well as illegal dealings. Keep in mind, with labs to run, experts to hire, bribes to pay, personnel to compensate, and illegal supplies to acquire, the BO's operating costs are probably in the mid to high tens of millions up to lower 100s of millions USD per year (Billions to ten billion yen).

And then we have the other part: "You see, right now, something really big is happening within the organization." I don't know what to make of it. We haven't seen signs of a major reorganization or changeover in leadership. The most we have heard of is a purge to look for allies of Sherry. What else could be going on? Why now? Is this statement just Gosho trying to drum up excitement or has something really changed in the BO recently?

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

Something which has got very little attention in the DC fandom was that Gosho said this in the Leaked interview notes from the May issue of the magazine 「ダ・ヴィンチ」 (da Vinci) どうか！　どうか、あと二つ質問させてください！　黒ずくめの組織の目的とはナニ？　APTX4869の作用から考えると、不老不死が怪しいのでは……。Please! Please, let me ask 2 more questions! What is the BO’s goal? Going by the APTX4869, I would think immortality…【青山】「違います。確かにそう思っちゃうよね。今ね、組織の中では大変なことが起こっていますよ」That’s wrong. It’s true that you’d think that, isn’t it? You see, right now, something really big is happening within the organization.

---

We also have this from a monthly Conan newspaper interview:I: So then, the black orginization is full of mysteries. But, what sort of orginization are they, and what is their goal? World Conquest?A: Well, the world....or rather, they want control of lot's of money. They're moving stealthily in the shadows...sort of like (Al) Capone did right? Or, sort of like the image of the bad guys in 007 or something...sitting there stroking a cat. It's probably best not to say too much.

---

The first statement seems to rule out immortality as the primary goal of the BO. Personally, given the pretty good evidence that APTX4869 is supposed to be some sort of deaging/immortality/youth drug, I think Gosho's answer might imply that APTX4869 is something needed to achieve another more important goal rather than trying to say APTX is meant to do something else.Whatever the BO's greater goal is, it might be very expensive. Gosho says they want control of a lot of money, and not just want a lot of money. That suggests to me the money is a means to an end rather than the end itself. Control seems to suggest they might intend to use it in legit business as well as illegal dealings. Keep in mind, with labs to run, experts to hire, bribes to pay, personnel to compensate, and illegal supplies to acquire, the BO's operating costs are probably in the mid to high tens of millions up to lower 100s of millions USD per year (Billions to ten billion yen).And then we have the other part: "You see, right now, something really big is happening within the organization." I don't know what to make of it. We haven't seen signs of a major reorganization or changeover in leadership. The most we have heard of is a purge to look for allies of Sherry. What else could be going on? Why now? Is this statement just Gosho trying to drum up excitement or has something really changed in the BO recently?

I think the change Gosho is talking about is when Sherry escaped. I think it's the first time that it happened to them. So a major change was needed.

And the world "control" seems more like a word to beautify the statement and might not mean anything at all. And also, control can mean hold of. (so hold of lots of money which points to just wanting lots of money)

As for the purpose of the APTX being an immortality drug or a drug to revive the dead, it is like a conspiracy theory when you compare it to real life cases... So I never took it seriously. I mean why can't the drug's purpose be just as simple as to somewhat "kill the victim"?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

As for the purpose of the APTX being an immortality drug or a drug to revive the dead, it is like a conspiracy theory when you compare it to real life cases... So I never took it seriously. I mean why can't the drug's purpose be just as simple as to somewhat "kill the victim"?

Pisco's comments about the drug were pretty revealing that it wasn't meant as a poison. Haibara said the same.

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

Pisco's comments about the drug were pretty revealing that it wasn't meant as a poison. Haibara said the same.

Well It could be that the effect of the drug was to completely de age the victim MIND and body. But its purpose is still for the same, to shut up those people who know to much by turning back them completely to their younger state.

I just can't believe that the BO will try to make an Immortality drug or a drug to raise the dead. The latter seems to be too much, I mean what can the BO earn from creating a drug that raises the dead?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I just can't believe that the BO will try to make an Immortality drug or a drug to raise the dead. The latter seems to be too much, I mean what can the BO earn from creating a drug that raises the dead?

Maybe the boss has someone in particular he wants to use it on. Perhaps the Black Organization and its scientific research has been created for the sake of one person who is simply that important to the boss?