Black Organization's true plan

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

No need! We have our DC Scholar here, Chekhov. I think the truth lies with her theories

That's going too far.

[Kirsch 95]

That's going too far.

@Chekhov MacGuffin: Do you know if DC's universe runs parallel with ours?

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

That's going too far.

Oh is that offensive? I'm really sorry.

But honestly, I'll place a bet that you'll be able to solve it, Ma'am, before we do.

[anonymously anonymous 34]

I always love to read Chekhov's theories. .. they are so convincing ... and I know that they are definitely true...

Anyway

I still can't think of the possibility of what the BO was actually created for...

But I have this feeling that its not so evil... it might be evil but I think not that much..

And about APTX it maybe like many others have said for deaging... I do not fully support this idea because there must be something hidden around it and it doesn't sound fully complete.. but until the time I have made a theory of my own (not necessarily made by me but any other theory I might think fit) I might as well vote for it ...

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

I doubt it have anything to do with superstitious belief, unless it have something to do with detectives....Otherwise I'm starting to disbelieve the unlikely goal for an organization as serious as the BO who's willing to spend so much money.. 

[Akazora 293]

Has anyone brought up the possibility of human cloning?  Cloning is still a touchy subject of debate even today and it was definitely even more controversial back when DC was initially serialized.  Since many attempts at cloning have been stifled by the produced clones dying prematurely, due inherited short telomeres from the original organism, could one of the drugs created by the Organization have been made to elongate damaged telomeres?  If this were the case, an aging prodigy at the piano could have his telomeres elongated and then have that "young" DNA used to make a clone who lives to a ripe old age.  Perhaps Vermouth, being skilled at acting and the art of disguise, has already had her telomeres elongated which is why she doesn't look as old as she should be and Vermouth ver. 2.0 is growing up as we speak!  

[Kenzi 146]

Has anyone brought up the possibility of human cloning?  Cloning is still a touchy subject of debate even today and it was definitely even more controversial back when DC was initially serialized.  Since many attempts at cloning have been stifled by the produced clones dying prematurely, due inherited short telomeres from the original organism, could one of the drugs created by the Organization have been made to elongate damaged telomeres?  If this were the case, an aging prodigy at the piano could have his telomeres elongated and then have that "young" DNA used to make a clone who lives to a ripe old age.  Perhaps Vermouth, being skilled at acting and the art of disguise, has already had her telomeres elongated which is why she doesn't look as old as she should be and Vermouth ver. 2.0 is growing up as we speak!  

There's a lot of ethical issues that come with cloning (not that the Organization would care). As far as I'm concerned, I don't think the purpose of the Black Organization is to create clones. In order to make an exact clone of someone/something, years of nurturing would have to be invested into said clone--which has to originate as an embryo (DC has a more realistic premise so 3D-printed clones isn't very likely). Even then, the mindset of the clone could vary much differently from the parent since the environment the clone is raised in likely won't mimic the exact circumstances that the parents originally developed in (almost like siblings who have completely dissimilar personalities). Looks won't matter if the clone acts contrastingly to the parent--especially since it's difficult to have full control on how a infant's brain develops. If Vermouth was a supposed candidate for this experiment, there would also be a significant age gap between her and her clone unless they happened to be raised/created at the same time (like twins). But if this was the case, the Organization should be more concerned with creating twins rather than clones. Then there would also be the issue of hiring surrogate mothers and dealing with the low success rate that goes along with cloning as well as a bunch of other factors that may result in some rage quitting.

 

Plus, I don't think the Organization really has any use for cloning. 

(I think that may be what you're trying to address? Or am I completely off mark?)

 

I think a drug used to elongate the telomeres is a very plausible purpose for the Organization, although I don't think they'll be utilizing it for the sake of cloning--but rather for extended lives (to help with the continuation of another ongoing project O:) or possibly immortalization.

 

I can't remember if the shortening of telomeres is directly correlated to the aging process (in terms of appearance), but if it isn't, a drug used to elongate telomeres won't explain why Vermouth has been able to keep her youthful image for all these years. Then again, the Organization could also be thinking of creating a drug that prevents change in appearance (something that controls wrinkles and melanin levels, maybe). 

 

EDIT: Fixed a few typos

Edited November 13, 2014 by Kenzi

[Akazora 293]

Quote in spoilers to reduce size.

There's a lot of ethical issues that come with cloning (not that the Organization would care). As far as I'm concerned, I don't think the purpose of the Black Organization is to create clones. In order to make an exact clone of someone/something, years of nurturing would have to be invested into said clone--which has to originate as an embryo (DC has a more realistic premise so 3D-printed clones isn't very likely). Even then, the mindset of the clone could vary much differently from the parent since the environment the clone is raised in likely won't mimic the exact circumstances that the parents originally developed in (almost like siblings who have completely dissimilar personalities). Looks won't matter if the clone acts contrastingly to the parent--especially since it's difficult to have full control on how a infant's brain develops. If Vermouth was a supposed candidate for this experiment, there would also be a significant age gap between her and her clone unless they happened to be raised/created at the same time (like twins). But if this was the case, the Organization should be more concerned with creating twins rather than clones. Then there would also be the issue of hiring surrogate mothers and dealing with the low success rate that goes along with cloning as well as a bunch of other factors that may result in some rage quitting.

 

Plus, I don't think the Organization really has any use for cloning. 

(I think that may be what you're trying to address? Or am I completely off mark?)

 

I think a drug used to elongate the telomeres is a very plausible purpose for the Organization, although I don't think they'll be utilizing it for the sake of cloning--but rather for extended lives (to help with the continuation of another ongoing project O:) or possibly immortalization.

 

I can't remember if the shortening of telomeres is directly correlated to the aging process (in terms of appearance), but if it isn't, a drug used to elongate telomeres won't explain why Vermouth has been able to keep her youthful image for all these years. Then again, the Organization could also be thinking of creating a drug that prevents change in appearance (something that controls wrinkles and melanin levels, maybe). 

 

EDIT: Fixed a few typos

DC is rooted in logic, but there are still a lot of crazy and silly aspects like with Conan's gadgets and with APTX 4869's side effect.  There is a lot of potential with cloning, as unethical as it may be depending on your stance.  Clones can have their organs used to save others, clones of expert assassins or scientists can grow up to keep the Organization self-sustaining, and if you want to delve into the world of science fiction a person could live forever by having his memory transplanted into his clone.  If a Vermouth clone were to be made, I wasn't thinking she'd be identical to the real Vermouth and act as a body double of sorts, but rather that clone Vermouth would grow up and be trained into a strong member of the Organization skilled at disguises and acting.  The reason why they couldn't just try to make twins would be because the unborn child doesn't have any proof of potential.  Vermouth had already demonstrated her immense skill set once she had grown into an adult, and it was only then that it would be logical to start growing a clone of her, from the embryo up of course.

 

This is a quote from an article that pops up when you Google "telomeres":

 

A telomere is a repeating DNA sequence (for example, TTAGGG) at the end of the body's chromosomes. The telomere can reach a length of 15,000 base pairs. Telomeres function by preventing chromosomes from losing base pair sequences at their ends. They also stop chromosomes from fusing to each other. However, each time a cell divides, some of the telomere is lost (usually 25-200 base pairs per division). When the telomere becomes too short, the chromosome reaches a "critical length" and can no longer replicate. This means that a cell becomes "old" and dies by a process called apoptosis. Telomere activity is controlled by two mechanisms: erosion and addition. Erosion, as mentioned, occurs each time a cell divides. Addition is determined by the activity of telomerase.

Since "apoptoxin" takes it's root from "apoptosis" could it have been a drug to prevent cell death?  Perhaps it's a "toxin" not because it was intended to kill people but because it was intended to "poison cell death", a double negative.

 

From what I can gather about telomeres, there's still a lot we don't know about them.  I don't think they've been directly related to physical aging by a scientific study yet, but given the Gosho-verse tends to falsify a few things for the sake of the plot I wouldn't be surprised if telomeres were given that function.

[tengaku squared 291]

If a Vermouth clone were to be made, I wasn't thinking she'd be identical to the real Vermouth and act as a body double of sorts, but rather that clone Vermouth would grow up and be trained into a strong member of the Organization skilled at disguises and acting.  The reason why they couldn't just try to make twins would be because the unborn child doesn't have any proof of potential.  Vermouth had already demonstrated her immense skill set once she had grown into an adult, and it was only then that it would be logical to start growing a clone of her, from the embryo up of course.

This gives the statement that Vermouth is considered the boss's favorite a whole new meaning. :V

 

It's unfortunate that there's not too much to go on besides a few vague ideas.

[Kenzi 146]

DC is rooted in logic, but there are still a lot of crazy and silly aspects like with Conan's gadgets and with APTX 4869's side effect.  There is a lot of potential with cloning, as unethical as it may be depending on your stance.  Clones can have their organs used to save others, clones of expert assassins or scientists can grow up to keep the Organization self-sustaining, and if you want to delve into the world of science fiction a person could live forever by having his memory transplanted into his clone. 

Organs from clones can be used to save others, but the process itself takes up too much time and labor--plus, it's also wasteful of resources if the clone is only used to donate to the parent. Assuming that the clone has to be developed from the embryo, it would take years before the organs from the clone mature. I feel like they'd be better off growing it through stem cells or through 3D-printing. Having memories transplanted into clones seems a bit extreme for DC. There are still too many complicated ethical issues that go along with this approach--the Organization must be pretty relentless if this is how they plan to gain immortality. Even so, I don't think Gosho will implement something this drastic into their schemes.

 

If a Vermouth clone were to be made, I wasn't thinking she'd be identical to the real Vermouth and act as a body double of sorts, but rather that clone Vermouth would grow up and be trained into a strong member of the Organization skilled at disguises and acting.  The reason why they couldn't just try to make twins would be because the unborn child doesn't have any proof of potential.  Vermouth had already demonstrated her immense skill set once she had grown into an adult, and it was only then that it would be logical to start growing a clone of her, from the embryo up of course.

Ohh, I see what you mean by cloning now. But why do you think the Organization would want to utilize this method to "perfect" their members? If anything, I think this means that there's another underlying project that we probably haven't touched on yet. How would the Organization benefit from immortality? Is it so they can complete more scientific discoveries? If so, why? Why would all the members in the Organization take an interest in this?

It's a bit concerning how little information Gosho has given us in terms of their purpose.

 

Since "apoptoxin" takes it's root from "apoptosis" could it have been a drug to prevent cell death?  Perhaps it's a "toxin" not because it was intended to kill people but because it was intended to "poison cell death", a double negative.

 

From what I can gather about telomeres, there's still a lot we don't know about them.  I don't think they've been directly related to physical aging by a scientific study yet, but given the Gosho-verse tends to falsify a few things for the sake of the plot I wouldn't be surprised if telomeres were given that function.

Oh my gosh...I never thought of the apoptoxin that way O:

 

I don't really mind Gosho tweaking science as long as it's still backed up by logic. The only thing that concerns me is how/why the project(s) motivates the Organization members, and how Gosho plans to illustrate it.

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

Well, it's really difficult to know what the goal is, since there are many statements about it and they're not explained, not to mention it's very confusing because they contradict each other, Gosho said it's not immortality, but Shiho's name was in the guestbook of people who want immortality on the mermaid island, and I remember Gosho said in one interview that it is foreshadowing something, then there is the whole program thing, and the revival of dead people, but Haibara said that the purpose of the drug is something most people wont care about and it isn't important, if we assume Silver Bullet is Aptx4869 or a previous version of it, then Elena called it a dream drug, and a terrifying drug, I honestly think that whatever the goal of both the drug and program development is only a step for the Boss's goal, which means it's not the goal, but rather a way to achieve the goal. 

[Rye 122]

I read this article and immediately thought of the Black Org. XD I thought I'd share it, since it seems to be one of the plausible goals of the organization.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

If my hunch is correct, I think the Org was meant to cure diseases. Thus named their project Silver Bullet, as easy as their goal may be. It was suprisngly that other side effects had caught up, such as increase in stamina and in capacity and so on as seen in Gin and Vermouth. However few like Vermouth did not age because of the side effects to this 'Super Soldier' syndrome, but with the efforts of Sherry on the project and naming it APTX4869 which had further effects such as deaging as seen in both Shinichi and Sherry.