[Discussion] The Miyano Family

[Black Demon 466]

There has never been any separate thread that discusses about The Miyanos themselves, so I decided to make one.

Known facts about Atsushi Miyano.

Known facts about Elena Miyano.

Known facts about Akemi Miyano.

Known facts about Shiho Miyano.

(I'm sorry, they are too long so I cannot write it down myself).

If anyone have theories or speculations about this topic, they can post it here.

[Amaranth 52]

I'll have to catch up on the episodes I've missed. But Shiho means justice, right?

[Black Demon 466]

I'll have to catch up on the episodes I've missed. But Shiho means justice, right?

If you meant the meaning of the Kanji 志保 , then I don't know =_= I just know that the name "Shiho" might come from "Sherlock Holmes"...

Anyway, has anyone ever wondered why Ai's parents were given such nicknames ? You know, "Mad Scientist" and "Hell Angel" ? "Mad Scientist" is common in fictions, so I don't see any specialty. "Hell Angel", on the other hand, sounds much creepier. Not Lucifer/Satan/Demon/Devil... It's "Hell Angel". Despite the fact that she seems to have a nice personality.

Haibara once described that Elena was known in the Org. as the kind of person "who didn't talk much and acted mysteriously, nobody knew what she was thinking" (Vol 41). That doesn't tell us a thing, many people in the BO also have such personality, not to mention that it is not a suitable thing to call mysterious people. To be called something like "Hell Angel", you need to have a high "evil-degree"...

I've read somewhere in DCTP that the nickname "Hell Angel" of Elena might be given by Vermouth (you know, the "Angel" part...) And it somehow got spread widely within the Organization. Although I'm pretty sure that it was just a behind-the-back-nickname, I think Elena was aware of this...

There could be many reasons why she has got that nickname:

1. Her research was going "against the stream of time", or in other words, "against the will of God", which Vermouth doesn't seem to like. "Hell Angel" probably means Fallen Angel. This theory is the most likely in my opinion, and many people has also come up with it.

2. If the Vermouth theory was correct, then Elena might have been Vermouth's "Angel" in the past (before she met Ran). Elena might be the person whom Vermouth once looked up to, but she ended up betraying her. She might have taken advantage of Vermouth and used her as a guinea-pig for the experiments. Therefore Vermouth held a grudge against her and named her "Hell Angel", which was even worse than "Fallen Angel". But since Sharon has already stated: "No angel has smiled upon me. Not even once.", this theory is rather unlikely.

3. If Elena is actually Vermouth (which I find unlikely), then she is referring to herself as "Hell Angel". Which means that Vermouth might have been a good person in the past (Angel), but for some reasons she "fell" and ended up in "Hell" (BO). This explains why she is always waiting for a "silver bullet" to come and destroy the Org.

P/S: Edited.

[Amaranth 52]

Oh, very informative!

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

If you meant the meaning of the Kanji 志保 , then I don't know =_= I just know that the name "Shiho" comes from "Sherlock Holmes"...

That's the first I've heard of this. I assume you mean it comes from taking the first kana of "Sherlock" and "Holmes"?

To be called something like "Hell Angel", you need to have a high "evil-degree"...

Hell's Angel makes more sense English-wise. Haibara's Japanese translation of the nickname was literally "the angel which fell into hell".(V41-11 pg 12) Gosho's English is iffy, so it is better to use the Japanese sense. Basically instead of implying evilness, the nickname implies Elena is an angel, basically a good person, who fell into hell, The Black Organization. Her behavior on the tapes, all around nice, friendly, and loving, corroborates this. She probably earned the nickname because her goodness seemed out of place among the criminality and darkness or the rest of the Organization.

Also copied from my speculation section about the Miyanos (For the most up to date version see this link.)

Atsushi and Elena Miyano

Atsushi Miyano was a researcher and apparently Ai’s father. Elena Miyano was British and apparently Ai’s mother.(424) According to the anime translation (345), they started the APTX research according to Vermouth. One or both of them worked on the project before Shiho took over.

Atsushi was a “mad scientist” who was unpopular scientifically because his work and theories were not mainstream. Agasa was a distant acquaintance of Atsushi. Elena was known as “hell’s angel” for some unknown reason. It might be because of her apparently nice personality which set her apart from the darkness of the rest of the organization. Elena is probably the foreign half of Ai’s background. She wears glasses and has long hair. Atsushi Miyano’s appearance is unknown.

Atsushi Miyano moved out of the house from the tape case (423-425) thirty years ago to go somewhere for his research. (This is probably related to the org.) He got married in this time period and then visited once later with Elena when Akemi was 4-5 years old. The visit most likely occurred about 20 years prior to the current timeline.

Contradictions about their death story

Both of them died for some reason which Pisco called an accident while Shiho was young. Haibara talks about her father and a little about the accident in chapter 384. Despite what various characters have said, whatever happened to Elena and Atsushi Miyano probably wasn't a sudden death accident. Elena took the time to leave tapes for Shiho, and given the theme of the tapes' content, it suggests Elena was intentionally leaving something behind for her daughter. Most people don't leave such deliberate mementos if they think that they will be alive later. The act of leaving the tapes indicates that Elena knew something would happen or she was about to do something that she might not survive. A situation where death is known to be likely doesn’t seem like it should be called an “accident”.

The contradiction could be resolved if the incident involved a slow death, i.e. there was an accident and then Elena left the tapes as she was dying. Another possibility is that whatever dangerous thing the Miyano's undertook that killed them was kept secret even from other highly ranked BO members like Pisco. Still another possibility is that the Miyano's didn't die, but faked their death (or tried to) in an accident and Elena prepared the tapes before going into hiding.

Elena's Tapes

Elena left four tapes for Haibara. (425 and 427) They are numbered 1-20 with the numbers split into groups of five. The numbers correspond to a message left by Elena for Haibara's same-numbered birthday; Conan listened to the beginning of the #11-15 tape and Elena’s recording was for 11-year-old Shiho. (File 425 p. 17). Conan mentioned that he moved to the 11 through 15 one because there were so many blank ones. I suppose the blank ones were some the earlier tapes (1-5 and 6-10) corresponding to when Ai was young. I wonder why they were blank?

I would like to note that in number 18, Elena talks about if Shiho will regret what she is about to do. My guess is that refers to Shiho taking over the drug research or returning to the org from her studies abroad. I wonder how Elena would have known Ai was taking over the research at that particular age?

Something Elena said about herself at the part of the third tape meant for Ai’s 18th birthday surprised Ai, but we couldn’t hear what it was due to a scene switch. (You are old enough to hear this … I am really…) Two ideas which take into account the information is something that you wouldn't tell someone until they were older and more mature: one was that she was telling Shiho that either Atsushi or Elena was still alive, and another is that one (or both) of her parents wasn't her real parent. (Her original parent(s) was someone significant) The reason I always thought it might have had something to do with the parents was Vermouth's smile when Agasa mentions what they might uncover about them. (Volume 41 chap 10)

Miscellaneous

Elena seemed to be somewhat close to Akemi. For instance, Akemi was taken with Atsushi and Elena to the Miyano's old home. It was also Akemi who got the tapes for Shiho from Elena.

Vermouth said the following at one point: “If you [shiho] want to blame someone, blame your parents who took over this foolish research.” (434) However it is translated differently by the more reliable DCTP in the anime as "Don't hate me, hate your foolish parents for starting this experiment”. (ep 345)

[hopes 237]

I personally think either Vermouth was the guinea pig for APTX4869... Also, when Shiho's mother in the tapes says "I'm really..." I think she was going to say "I'm really not your mother." She wouldn't be able to tell her this when she was a child. I think Vermouth is perhaps her real mother. Vermouth is also American, she was in America for quite a while too. So, that's my crazy theory of her being Vermouth's daughter. Maybe Gin's the father...

[Patronus Charm 53]

i think shiho is adopted...

[hopes 237]

From Vermouth and Gin.

[Patronus Charm 53]

From Vermouth and Gin.

Vermouth and Gin??

[Black Demon 466]

That's the first I've heard of this. I assume you mean it comes from taking the first kana of "Sherlock" and "Holmes"?

Yeah, that's what I meant. I don't know if my source was correct, but it seems to be....

[hopes 237]

Vermouth and Gin??

Yeah. Or at least Vermouth.

[justwantanaccount 125]

Yeah, that's what I meant. I don't know if my source was correct, but it seems to be....

Can you give the link, if your source is on the web? I've never heard of that, either, but it would be interesting if it was true.

[hopes 237]

I'd like to see the source as well...

[Black Demon 466]

Can you give the link, if your source is on the web? I've never heard of that, either, but it would be interesting if it was true.

If only I can remember that damn page... Guess I'll have to Google it again...

Good new: Found one (but not the one I'm looking for) !

http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/Yukiko/info.html

VERY BAD new: Even this person is not sure of what he/she said, and the source of this information came from someone called "frankchn" Therefore, no fact has been confirmed. The odd thing is that this rumor was spread really widely not a long time ago, that even I have thought that it was real.

P/S: I also tried to dig up some of Gosho's interviews to find some informations about this, but failed. Can somebody help me do that ?

[hopes 237]

Aw, really? DX Darn it. But... I didn't think so.

[justwantanaccount 125]

P/S: I also tried to dig up some of Gosho's interviews to find some informations about this, but failed. Can somebody help me do that ?

Here's the list of interviews I could dig up through Japanese anime news and blogs. I've managed to get the raws of a few of them on the list and I've translated them, but to get more I'd have to buy some of the magazines listed on there, which I'm willing to do once I start earning my own money (but not now). Of the ones I've read or heard about through the Japanese blogs, none of them talked about what puns were used to come up with the characters' names - so the puns are fan speculation for the most part, I think, unless someone can give me evidence to the contrary.

Oh man, I'm getting off-topic - anyways, it's a cool idea that Shiho's name might come from Sherlock Holmes! Although, I'd have to say that Shiho is a fairly common name in Japan, but - who knows, right?

[Black Demon 466]

Here's the list of interviews I could dig up through Japanese anime news and blogs. I've managed to get the raws of a few of them on the list and I've translated them, but to get more I'd have to buy some of the magazines listed on there, which I'm willing to do once I start earning my own money (but not now). Of the ones I've read or heard about through the Japanese blogs, none of them talked about what puns were used to come up with the characters' names - so the puns are fan speculation for the most part, I think, unless someone can give me evidence to the contrary.

Wow, thanks... You really are an expert when it comes to interviews :-D

I personally think either Vermouth was the guinea pig for APTX4869... Also, when Shiho's mother in the tapes says "I'm really..." I think she was going to say "I'm really not your mother." She wouldn't be able to tell her this when she was a child. I think Vermouth is perhaps her real mother. Vermouth is also American, she was in America for quite a while too. So, that's my crazy theory of her being Vermouth's daughter. Maybe Gin's the father...

But why would Vermouth tried to hunt Sherry down and kill her, even though it's not the Boss' order ? Or did you mean that she doesn't know that's her daughter ?

Also, Vermouth's expression when she was burning Sherry's photo and said "I found you..." was really creepy, as if she was a wolf which wanted to eat its prey immediately... It means that her grudge against Sherry must be something more than just a hatred towards the traitor (while Vermouth herself doesn't seem to be loyal to the Org. at all).

Maybe love-triangle LOL

[hopes 237]

Yes, I think it's either a love triangle or Vermouth is her daughter. I think Vermouth knows, but Shiho doesn't.

[Black Demon 466]

I've just come up with a wild theory.

Akemi might be Atsushi's daughter with Vermouth (?), and Shiho is Elena's daughter with Anokata (if the boss' male of course). I think that this theory explains a lot...

First, it explains why The Boss never ordered anyone to hunt down Haibara and kill her, despite the fact that she can spoil lots of information to the FBI/CIA/everyone (Please note that Bourbon's Sherry-hunting mission has not yet to be surely confirmed, as it's highly hinted that his target was Akai instead). In the Haido Hotel case (Vol 24), Gin noticed that Sherry has a "personal guardian". He didn't know about Conan back then, so he probably thought that Sherry has some kind of connection with the FBI/CIA/police/whatever... Gin's suspicion has been confirmed in the Ding Dong Dash case (Vol 48-49), that Sherry DOES have something to do with the FBI. Though it seemed like Kogoro was just a bait set up for them, the bug he found under Kir's shoe clearly "belongs to Sherry" (which means that Sherry has been helping the FBI). It is likely that Gin has reported this detail to Anokata...

For now, the only two suspicious persons to show their interest in Ai are Okiya & Sera. While Okiya hasn't made any move, Sera seems to have more interests in Conan... Though it's too early to say something, I think that whoever they are, their missions were not to kill Sherry (This is a second thought, so never mind my votes in the Sera thread )

Secondly, it explains Akemi and Shiho's different fates within the Org. If my theory is correct, then there might be a love-triangle (Anokata-Vermouth-Atsushi) LOL In other words, Anokata hates Atsushi, therefore hates his daughter (Akemi). Meanwhile, Anokata made sure that his own daughter (Shiho) is trained to be an excellent scientist, and has high ranking (unlike Akemi). Anokata probably got rid of Atsushi and spread the rumor that it was an accident (though I cannot explain why Elena died). Akemi, on the other hand, is much harder to kill, since she is his favorite woman's daughter, and if he had killed her with no reason, Sherry would have been pissed-off and gave up the project. Anokata could not come up with a suitable motive to get rid of her, until one event... Yes, Akai's betrayal.

And finally, if you've read all the above, you'll understand many of Vermouth's mysterious actions. Because of her daughter's death (current timeline) or mental pain (in the past), she held a serious grudge against Akai & Shiho (while she didn't even do anything to her). If I'm not mistaken, in the NY case, Vermouth was trying to lure out Akai (and kill him) on her own agenda, not the boss' order. Have you ever wondered why she was always waiting for a "silver bullet" to come, while Akai was still alive ? Comparing to Conan (who is only good in deductions), Akai also has skills and experiences, and he knows the Org. very well. It doesn't make sense when Vermouth waited for a "silver bullet", while still wanted to kill him at the same time (and it's before she met Shinichi). The reason behind it might be personal grudge... As for Shiho, the reason why Vermouth wanted to kill her so bad (that she flied all the ways from the US to Japan just to do this), was probably because she and her daughter were treated so unfairly (and maybe also because of her APTX-project). While Akemi earned nothing within the Org., Shiho had everything (educations, a whole lab, high-ranking...). While Akemi ended up dead trying to save her, Shiho's life is getting better and better (with Conan, Agasa, DB...).

And please notice that in Western countries, people usually call their child something like "my sweet angel", "my small angel"... Ran resembles Akemi + Vermouth named Ran "Angel", does that ring any bell ?

Problems about this theory:

- There is still no evidence about Anokata's gender, except for his/her interest in Vermouth, which may point out that the boss is male.

- It does not explain Elena's death.

- It does not explain Vermouth's unnatural youth and why she called the Miyano's project "foolish".

- If Bourbon's mission is really Sherry-hunting, then this theory doesn't stand well.

[Vi Graythorn 50]

i think there sisters and the dad started the project first, and Vermouth was a genie pig to an earlier test which becomes non aging

[Black Demon 466]

I really wonder why has Gosho never drawn Atsushi Miyano in canon, unlike his wife ? Could it be too big as a hint that Gosho decided not to portrait him (despite having mentioned him sometimes), like it would reveal that the whole Miyano family look nothing alike ? Or that Atsushi is actually a character that has already been featured (like Agasa, Kogoro, Gin...) ?

P/S: I've edited a few things on the poll, but it doesn't really change people's votes

[detectiveRJB 15]

I think both astushi and Elena parent are Akemi and Shiho.I think both them spy from CIA and MI6.Astushi Was CIA.Elena Was MI6.They are possible more children.We not know they marry before.

[Black Demon 466]

I think both astushi and Elena parent are Akemi and Shiho.I think both them spy from CIA and MI6.Astushi Was CIA.Elena Was MI6.They are possible more children.We not know they marry before.

Why do you think they're from CIA and MI6?

[Wildheart888 170]

Hmmm...confused with where you got to know their names....if I read that part I dont remember Gosho mentioning their names.....O.o

[Black Demon 466]

Hmmm...confused with where you got to know their names....if I read that part I dont remember Gosho mentioning their names.....O.o

Atsushi's name was first mentioned in volume 38 - chap. 2 - page 7 (ep. 312).

Elena's name was first mentioned in volume 39 - chap. 6 - page 6 (ep. 329).