Why do some people not like Ran?

[phantomlady1101 59]

Ran is a normal person as is Shinichi. Them taking on such a task is arrogant and dangerous.

Let me put it to you this way... The person has already killed, if Shinichi failed or ran failed then more would be sacrificed. They would kill again if cornered, and has almost happened numerous times before (as in a criminal attempted to do something after). The police threaten with use of force and act on it. Shinichi, nor ran have that luxury. That to me, is arrogant. Idealism is great when you don't put other people's lives on the line.

Edit: Also, there are quite a few people who think like I do... It is called cynicism. I don't like killing, but I respect the fact that in some situations it is necessary. It isn't saying to kill indiscriminately, or to kill a suspect whom obviously poses no threat. However, the mere idea that you, yourself, can save everyone is arrogant, and thinking that without the proper training is dangerous. Unless Ran or Shinichi reveals that they have secretly been training with a Japanese law enforcement or military agency in negotiation, and extraction and applicable submission techniques, it is highly dangerous and probably stupid to face such situations. Ran knows Karate, great, but I'd much rather trust Kazuha who knows Aikido or Kogorou who knows Judo and can SUBMIT and SUBDUE a suspect. Ran can kick and punch, and Shinichi can kick a ball. Neither have what it actually takes to diffuse a violent situation if a suspect decides to become violent. Shinichi has the mental capacity to figure things out, but not the physical prowess. Ran has neither.

So again, for me, yes both Ran and Shinichi are arrogant that they think they can take on that responsibility. Shinichi, luckily enough, at least learned that he CAN'T save everybody. At least twice, once with the Moonlight Sonata case and once with Akemi. However he still harbors that the naivety that he can do something in every situation despite being ill equipped. And the fact that both try, is dangerous.

I should mention this as well. I do not mean for when either put their OWN LIFE on the line to take a literal or proverbial bullet for someone else. That I do respect, because they are putting their own life on the line to prevent the death of another. However, if that person becomes safe and they prevent a police officer from doing their job, that I do not agree with. Situations tend to escalate, and if you prevent someone that has the means to kill to be killed when there was opportunity, who is to say that situation will turn in your favor or it won't escalate to something worse. What if that criminal takes that opportunity to shoot the officer who was going to shoot him? Then you just allowed a hero to die to save a killer. I'm sorry, but I believe in logical resolutions, and blind idealism that Ran and Shinichi sport I can never nor will ever agree with.

Even Holmes himself knew that killing was sometimes necessary and did it twice in memory.

Whether or not you agree, is up to you. But I consider that a grave flaw in her character, as well as Shinichi's.

Umh, everyone has his/her own opinion... But... Yeah, I know, Shinichi/Ran can't save everyone, so you mean, if they knew that, they had better stop saving everyone??? Maybe saving someone is stupid and dangerous, but why don't we try???

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Phantomlady, I've already explained my position clearly, and thus do not see the need to delve deeper. Please reread my posts, the answer to your queries lie within.

Btw, if anyone else thinks I haven't, I'll gladly elaborate, but as of right now I see not the need.

[MadelineLime 45]

Umh, everyone has his/her own opinion... But... Yeah, I know, Shinichi/Ran can't save everyone, so you mean, if they knew that, they had better stop saving everyone??? Maybe saving someone is stupid and dangerous, but why don't we try???

Saving anyone is not the same as saving everyone. If you try to save everyone and you can't, then everyone might die. Sometimes you have to make the call on who lives, and who dies. It's like this: If you had a boat that could only hold so much weight or it would capsize, and you had one adult and one child to potentially help, who would you try and save?

[AJ M. 204]

On the topic of saving people, I will namely pinpoint certain situations where the tactic of preventing one’s death (which will simply be abbreviated as POD) is appropriate or not.

I’ll start of with Shinichi’s attempt during the end of the Moonlight Sonata case (File 67.13 – 67.17). In this scenario, POD would be appropriate. Although Asai Narumi killed at most 3 men to avenge her father’s death, Shinichi willingly tried to talk her out of suicide, but to no avail. His attempt, however, is agreeable if we consider the morality of justice being served; in this case, committing suicide would be the “easy way out” for Narumi and thus, would not atone for her crimes (like being sent to jail would). Therefore, Shinichi kept that in mind, and although he ultimately failed (which in turn scarred him for life), his act of POD was not selfish in any way because he was given the opportunity to save Narumi’s life and primarily focused on saving her life. However, he cornered her in a way that averted him from doing so. Such cornering a suspect would indeed be selfish had he not made an effort of POD, which leads me to the next case.

When Shinichi prevented the murderer from committing suicide during the Distinguished Family's Consecutive Accidental Death case (File 153.13 – 153.16), POD would again be appropriate. After realizing his mistake during the Moonlight Sonata case, Shinichi saw ahead of time the killer’s future endeavors and successfully prevented her from pursuing suicide. Once again, he was given the opportunity of POD, and despite the fact that the person was a murderer, Shinichi saved her life not for the selfish reasons of being a hero, but for serving justice (which is essentially the reoccurring theme of Detective Conan).

Now for a more controversial example of POD – when Shinichi and Ran saved a serial killer during the end of the New York or Golden Apple case (File 354.8 – 354.14). I’m 50/50 on this one. For one scenario, letting the serial killer fall to his death would not only make it easier for the police to capture him, but would also save lives down the road, let alone Shinichi and Ran’s lives, had the serial killer managed to escape. For the other scenario, saving his life would allow him to serve justice suitably if he was subsequently captured and would possibly change him for the better (as cheesy as it sounds). But considering the fact that Shuichi Akai said, “Every crossing to this street is secured already” when he decided to leave Ran alone, I think it’s fair to believe Ran and Shinichi did the right thing since there would be nowhere else for the killer to escape to. Technically, it wasn’t Shinichi and Ran’s responsibility to let him die; one could counter this by saying it wasn’t their responsibility to save him either, but saving his life would allow higher-ranked officials to determine the serial killer’s fate after his capture. Who knows? Maybe the police department needed him alive for questioning, or maybe he would’ve been sentenced to death anyways, so it could go either way. But because it’s the police department’s responsibility to determine the killer’s fate, not Ran’s nor Shinichi’s, I would say POD is appropriate to a degree. This is probably the only example I can think of when I actually question Ran and Shinichi’s motive, but I don’t think their intentions are anything immoral.

Lastly, when Ran practically sacrificed her life to save Haibara during the end of the Halloween Party case (File 434.6 – 434.9), POD would definitely be appropriate because Ran’s main focus was to protect Haibara whom she believed was still a child. Even if it meant her death, Ran still jumped in front of Haibara and caught Vermouth off guard. There’s not much to say in this scenario since it evidently demonstrates Ran’s selflessness.

In the end, I DO NOT believe that Ran and Shinichi are arrogant for trying to save lives. On the other hand, I DO believe it is selfish to THINK that you can save everyone's life in any circumstance. It's pretty easy to assume that these two have this thought process in mind, but I honestly believe it is the other way around - they KNOW they CAN'T save everyone's life. But it wouldn't be wrong to try to save as much people as they can when given the opportunity to, and so far, every POD example I could think of in the DC series has a legitimate reason behind it; most of which are associated with serving justice. The closest (and probably only) example of when POD is not appropriate is during the New York case when Ran saved the serial killer/Vermouth from falling, but like I said, the killing spree would have ended regardless if she saved him or not because the surrounding streets had been secured by law enforcement. Overall, the ACT of saving everyone is far different from the THOUGHT of being able to save everyone. I apologize for such a long post, but I just wanted to get my point across.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

On the topic of saving people, I will namely pinpoint certain situations where the tactic of preventing one’s death (which will simply be abbreviated as POD) is appropriate or not.

I’ll start of with Shinichi’s attempt during the end of the Moonlight Sonata case (File 67.13 – 67.17). In this scenario, POD would be appropriate. Although Asai Narumi killed at most 3 men to avenge her father’s death, Shinichi willingly tried to talk her out of suicide, but to no avail. His attempt, however, is agreeable if we consider the morality of justice being served; in this case, committing suicide would be the “easy way out” for Narumi and thus, would not atone for her crimes (like being sent to jail would). Therefore, Shinichi kept that in mind, and although he ultimately failed (which in turn scarred him for life), his act of POD was not selfish in any way because he was given the opportunity to save Narumi’s life and primarily focused on saving her life. However, he cornered her in a way that averted him from doing so. Such cornering a suspect would indeed be selfish had he not made an effort of POD, which leads me to the next case.

When Shinichi prevented the murderer from committing suicide during the Distinguished Family's Consecutive Accidental Death case (File 153.13 – 153.16), POD would again be appropriate. After realizing his mistake during the Moonlight Sonata case, Shinichi saw ahead of time the killer’s future endeavors and successfully prevented her from pursuing suicide. Once again, he was given the opportunity of POD, and despite the fact that the person was a murderer, Shinichi saved her life not for the selfish reasons of being a hero, but for serving justice (which is essentially the reoccurring theme of Detective Conan).

Now for a more controversial example of POD – when Shinichi and Ran saved a serial killer during the end of the New York or Golden Apple case (File 354.8 – 354.14). I’m 50/50 on this one. For one scenario, letting the serial killer fall to his death would not only make it easier for the police to capture him, but would also save lives down the road, let alone Shinichi and Ran’s lives, had the serial killer managed to escape. For the other scenario, saving his life would allow him to serve justice suitably if he was subsequently captured and would possibly change him for the better (as cheesy as it sounds). But considering the fact that Shuichi Akai said, “Every crossing to this street is secured already” when he decided to leave Ran alone, I think it’s fair to believe Ran and Shinichi did the right thing since there would be nowhere else for the killer to escape to. Technically, it wasn’t Shinichi and Ran’s responsibility to let him die; one could counter this by saying it wasn’t their responsibility to save him either, but saving his life would allow higher-ranked officials to determine the serial killer’s fate after his capture. Who knows? Maybe the police department needed him alive for questioning, or maybe he would’ve been sentenced to death anyways, so it could go either way. But because it’s the police department’s responsibility to determine the killer’s fate, not Ran’s nor Shinichi’s, I would say POD is appropriate to a degree. This is probably the only example I can think of when I actually question Ran and Shinichi’s motive, but I don’t think their intentions are anything immoral.

Lastly, when Ran practically sacrificed her life to save Haibara during the end of the Halloween Party case (File 434.6 – 434.9), POD would definitely be appropriate because Ran’s main focus was to protect Haibara whom she believed was still a child. Even if it meant her death, Ran still jumped in front of Haibara and caught Vermouth off guard. There’s not much to say in this scenario since it evidently demonstrates Ran’s selflessness.

In the end, I DO NOT believe that Ran and Shinichi are arrogant for trying to save lives. On the other hand, I DO believe it is selfish to THINK that you can save everyone's life in any circumstance. It's pretty easy to assume that these two have this thought process in mind, but I honestly believe it is the other way around - they KNOW they CAN'T save everyone's life. But it wouldn't be wrong to try to save as much people as they can when given the opportunity to, and so far, every POD example I could think of in the DC series has a legitimate reason behind it; most of which are associated with serving justice. The closest (and probably only) example of when POD is not appropriate is during the New York case when Ran saved the serial killer/Vermouth from falling, but like I said, the killing spree would have ended regardless if she saved him or not because the surrounding streets had been secured by law enforcement. Overall, the ACT of saving everyone is far different from the THOUGHT of being able to save everyone. I apologize for such a long post, but I just wanted to get my point across.

You are doing the same thing as PL. You are confusing wanting to save anyone than thinking it is your job to save everyone.

And it is arrogant, at least I think so. They are only teenagers. If they were older and had the proper training, I might think differently, but that is not the case here.

In the Shirigami case, what would have happened if, instead of checking the gun he tried to pull the trigger out of anger? Arrogance would have been his downfall in that situation. And it could have resulted in his death as well as anyone else in that room. The entire situation could have ended badly.

For Ran... There is one case in the manga that I can not forgive

The suicide bomber case... The Police confirmed that it wasn't a deadman switch, and could have taken him out and ended the entire situation. What if Ran or Shinichi failed? Not only would have EVERYONE died, but people in the vicinity of the blast radius would have too. There were several sticks of C-4. That isn't a small blast ya know. That is arrogant and dangerous to think that you can stop that situation without casualty. I agreed with Sera's point of view in that entire case.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I think Sera was practically right, but at the same time I don't think Shinichi and Ran were wrong for wanting the ideal ending. They risked a lot in the process, but this is par for the course for them in terms of their behavior. Both pursue the ideal of justice to the point of risking a lot, including themselves and others, in the process because they think they might be good enough to get the perfect outcome. Character flaws make things interesting, especially if one day Gosho decides to have one of the idealism plots backfire.

It's annoying enough that Conan is right all the time without help or support from the other characters. We don't need him to always act properly too. Because of this, I don't hate them for trying, no more then I hate Kogoro for being a self-centered drunk slob (he's my favorite character), or Ai being untrusting to the point of useless with even "safe" Black Org info (like the true intention of APTX) after Shinichi has proven himself to have some discretion as long as he can't use the info immediately.

In a way, their behavior makes sense because the average villain in DC has an unrealistic pattern of behaving that allows Shinichi's idealistic plots to work. The villains pretty much always wait for the detective to finish (they can attack afterwards but that's where the footballs come in), and when faced with proper evidence they break down, become useless, and confess.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

I think Sera was practically right, but at the same time I don't think Shinichi and Ran were wrong for wanting the ideal ending. They risked a lot in the process, but this is par for the course for them in terms of their behavior. Both pursue the ideal of justice to the point of risking a lot, including themselves and others, in the process because they think they might be good enough to get the perfect outcome. Character flaws make things interesting, especially if one day Gosho decides to have one of the idealism plots backfire.

It's annoying enough that Conan is right all the time without help or support from the other characters. We don't need him to always act properly too. Because of this, I don't hate them for trying, no more then I hate Kogoro for being a self-centered drunk slob (he's my favorite character), or Ai being untrusting to the point of useless with even "safe" Black Org info (like the true intention of APTX) after Shinichi has proven himself to have some discretion as long as he can't use the info immediately.

In a way, their behavior makes sense because the average villain in DC has an unrealistic pattern of behaving that allows Shinichi's idealistic plots to work. The villains pretty much always wait for the detective to finish (they can attack afterwards but that's where the soccer balls come in), and when faced with proper evidence they break down, become useless, and confess.

I don't think it is wrong for Ran or Shinichi to want it, but they also act on it. Ran technically interfered with police, which is, last I checked, illegal. Naturally the police can't blame her, because they have to assume that she was forced to by the perpetrator. I do think it is arrogant that they think they can always do it, without the proper training to do anything properly.

It is a character flaw, which was kinda the point... right? I think that is what my point was. That their blind idealism is a character flaw. And, yes, to me, it would make it worth while if it backfired down the line. But I, for some reason, don't foresee Gosho doing that. That thought really bothers me. I hope I am proven wrong though.

That said, it is still a character flaw, and a big one imho.

[AJ M. 204]

You are doing the same thing as PL. You are confusing wanting to save anyone than thinking it is your job to save everyone.

And it is arrogant, at least I think so. They are only teenagers. If they were older and had the proper training, I might think differently, but that is not the case here.

In the Shirigami case, what would have happened if, instead of checking the gun he tried to pull the trigger out of anger? Arrogance would have been his downfall in that situation. And it could have resulted in his death as well as anyone else in that room. The entire situation could have ended badly.

For Ran... There is one case in the manga that I can not forgive

The suicide bomber case... The Police confirmed that it wasn't a deadman switch, and could have taken him out and ended the entire situation. What if Ran or Shinichi failed? Not only would have EVERYONE died, but people in the vicinity of the blast radius would have too. There were several sticks of C-4. That isn't a small blast ya know. That is arrogant and dangerous to think that you can stop that situation without casualty. I agreed with Sera's point of view in that entire case.

I have no idea what you meant when you said, "You are confusing wanting to save anyone than thinking it is your job to save everyone." But just in case, I will reiterate what I said so you understand what I'm arguing for.

In the end, I DO NOT believe that Ran and Shinichi are arrogant for trying to save lives. On the other hand, I DO believe it is selfish to THINK that you can save everyone's life in any circumstance. It's pretty easy to assume that these two have this thought process in mind, but I honestly believe it is the other way around - they KNOW they CAN'T save everyone's life. But it wouldn't be wrong to try to save as much people as they can when given the opportunity to... Overall, the ACT of saving everyone is far different from the THOUGHT of being able to save everyone.

What would make the difference if they were older and "had proper training"? Sure it would enable them to diffuse a dangerous situation more efficiently, but would that make them less, so to speak, "arrogant"? Training would indeed give them more bragging rights, I guess you could say, but whether or not they have the tools to save a person, wouldn't it be arrogant to think you can save everyone in either situation? (Disregarding the fact that I believe they know they can't save everyone)

You have to admit, trained or not trained, Shinichi was smart to utilize the whole "dropped your bullets" trick, which was a clever way to catch the killer off guard and kick the gun out of his hands (which looked quite professional to me). I don't think you need any formal training if you are able to predict the murderer's every move like a game of chess. Shinichi's greatest weapon is his brain, which is sometimes all you need in order to deter the killer's actions (with the use of psychology). And we could throw the "what if" card in any scenario, but considering how well his tactic turned out, I don't think it's necessary.

You didn't receive the memo? Ran is a bad girl now and wants to troll every situation that comes her way. She's officially a newborn rebel. (That was my failed attempt to redeem myself for forgetting to mention that in my argument) I just watched that episode yesterday, let alone read the manga chapter, so I can't believe I completely neglected it as an example... This is the only case that I said: "What the hell are you doing Ran?!" I'll admit that she was stupid here, but if we take into account all of the other scenarios, including the ones that I previously mentioned, Shinichi and Ran are not selfish for trying to save as much people as they can WHEN THEY ARE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO. If they were handed the chance to prevent one's death for the sake of justice, then why not? It would be a whole different story if they went about seeking and searching for opportunities to stop criminals and save lives like a comic book superhero. But no, in every case where they did save a person, they were granted the opportunity, not on their own will. So IMO, it's not selfish.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

AJ, I'm going to respond with two definitions...

Arrogant: Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

If thinking you can diffuse any situation when you are a teenager without the proper training or experience is not arrogant, then please, tell me what is. Their selfishness may be part of it, but the fact that they don't have the proper training or abilities to actually do such things makes their actions in those situations arrogant.

Conversely... Selfish: (of a person, action, or motive) Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

They are not doing it for their own profit, and I don't think Ran is doing it for her own pleasure (though Shinichi probably is, darn mystery freak ). They both lack consideration for others, but that is not enough to categorize it as selfish, imo as they are really doing it for the benefit of others despite what others want.

Shinichi's actions towards the BO are selfish, but that is not what we are talking about here.

[dz. 0]

AJ, I'm going to respond with two definitions...

Arrogant: Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

If thinking you can diffuse any situation when you are a teenager without the proper training or experience is not arrogant, then please, tell me what is. Their selfishness may be part of it, but the fact that they don't have the proper training or abilities to actually do such things makes their actions in those situations arrogant.

Conversely... Selfish: (of a person, action, or motive) Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

They are not doing it for their own profit, and I don't think Ran is doing it for her own pleasure (though Shinichi probably is, darn mystery freak ). They both lack consideration for others, but that is not enough to categorize it as selfish, imo as they are really doing it for the benefit of others despite what others want.

Shinichi's actions towards the BO are selfish, but that is not what we are talking about here.

Look, I don't think anyone is arguing your opinion is invalid, just that your depiction of the character is incorrect. DC obviously has plot-holes, however the sense of justice in the protagonists is a main theme of the story and shouldn't be considered a "flaw", even in characterization. As for the climax of every episode when there's the apprehension of the criminal, whether with Shinichi or Ran, I really don't think it's fair to judge either of them in the sense that arrogance drives their ambitions. Along with their judicatory mindset, obviously comes their good in human nature. They're only trying to save lives to the best of their ability. For example, as Conan, the only way he can stop antagonists is with a some special gear, I don't think anyone is expecting a 4 feet kid to fly across rooms like he's Goku. As for Ran, Karate is a very respected combat sport and IMO, Karate suits her role very well. If you have watched or have any experience with MA or MMA, you'd know that in most situations, striking is much more proficient and effective than submissive combat. Furthermore, you talk about the age and experience of the character being the main reasons of their "arrogance", but tbh if you consider the role of the character, especially Ran's, her actions seem rather altruistic rather than arrogant. Just sayin' brah

[AJ M. 204]

Well, I suppose the argument is fair on either side and solely depends on personal belief. If we look at the two extremes, a misanthropist like Kyuu would see the arrogance and the naivete behind the idea of being able to save everyone's life, while a philanthropist like myself would focus more on the aspects of justice and preserving human rights. So I think both extremes have valid points.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Look, I don't think anyone is arguing your opinion is invalid, just that your depiction of the character is incorrect. DC obviously has plot-holes, however the sense of justice in the protagonists is a main theme of the story and shouldn't be considered a "flaw", even in characterization. As for the climax of every episode when there's the apprehension of the criminal, whether with Shinichi or Ran, I really don't think it's fair to judge either of them in the sense that arrogance drives their ambitions. Along with their judicatory mindset, obviously comes their good in human nature. They're only trying to save lives to the best of their ability. For example, as Conan, the only way he can stop antagonists is with a some special gear, I don't think anyone is expecting a 4 feet kid to fly across rooms like he's Goku. As for Ran, Karate is a very respected combat sport and IMO, Karate suits her role very well. If you have watched or have any experience with MA or MMA, you'd know that in most situations, striking is much more proficient and effective than submissive combat. Furthermore, you talk about the age and experience of the character being the main reasons of their "arrogance", but tbh if you consider the role of the character, especially Ran's, her actions seem rather altruistic rather than arrogant. Just sayin' brah

AJ.M wasn't saying that my opinion was invalid, rather mislead. Unless I was reading his responses wrong. However, I didn't see it this way, and thus elaborated my position of arrogance. Ran and Shinichi are naive, which is where their arrogance stems. Thinking they can save everyone in every situation. I cited that one case where Ran prevented the police from doing their job, on the off chance the crazy person would be stopped, or that he wouldn't react differently when tricked. Ran and Shinichi gambled, which could have killed everyone. Again, these ideals are fine when not blind, but Ran and Shinichi clearly have blind idealism. Whether or not it stems from altruism, them thinking they can always do something, in my opinion is arrogant, which stems from their naivety from being teenagers. It is quite common for teenagers to think they are untouchable, and it is a dangerous mindset to have. Also, even the most altruistic person does not always act when they are unable or do not posses the ability.

"Any expierance with MA or MMA"? I have 16 years of MA experience under my belt, with 10 of those years teaching. I have done a number of martial arts and participated in tournament matches in straight Karate, TKD and MMA. That being said... Allow me to explain why I know that most Karate is not the most effective, nor really all that well respected in the MA world. Karate, in its purest form, was a straight forward MA that was effective and useful. Over the years though, like TKD, it became a style mainly for use in competition. A number of techniques that were extremely effective irl, were not really taught, or even phased out of the popular styles like Shotokan, Goju and Shito. Shotokan especially got hit hard by this sports movement. When styles based upon rules move into the real world, instincts go towards moves that wouldn't be illegal in the ring which limits the practitioner greatly. Now, for Ran in particular, she practices, quite obviously, a sports style of Karate. Japanese Karate clubs almost always focus on the sports aspect of Karate, or the spiritual aspect. Ever ask a Karate practitioner what style they practice? I have, and most don't have a bloody clue. Perhaps it would be different in Japan, but because of Karate's spread and scope, its not really well respected in the MA world, not like it once was before its surge of popularity due to movies.

Now as for effectiveness in the real world. You brought up MMA and cited how effective strikes are as opposed to grappling and submission. In MMA, find me a champion that doesn't know at least some BJJ or other grappling art, and I'll show you 10 others that are BJJ black belts or other grappling black belts. That aside, allow me to cite some martial arts used my military and paramilitary organizations... Krav Maga, MCMAP, Systema, Hapkido, Jujutsu... All of those focus on striking for one purpose, and one purpose only... to bring the person down to the ground and finish them. Why? Because in the real world, most fights are not finished in one move, or even a series of strikes, unless the practitioner is really lucky. Submissions, grappling, locks... all of them are focal points of training in all of those martial arts. Most police agencies also focus on submission style techniques as a form of finishing a fight as opposed to striking. Why? Because submissions and throws are simply more effective than strikes. In grappling you control your opponents movements, which is advantageous is stopping a violent situation. Also, because grappling relies on leverage, it requires far less strength to be effective. Finally, if someone broke into Ran's circle of defense, she'd be done. It is as simple as that. Any determined person can do it too, no real skill is necessary. Karate practitioners are useless on the ground or in extreme close quarters.

Now, there are nonsport styles of Karate that do work better, but the lack of grapling severely limits its effectiveness. I'm thinking mostly of Kyukushin. If you find a school that focuses not on competition, but on the art, then it is also a bit different. However, again, for Ran this does not seem to be the case.

If you want to delve more into this, feel free to head to the martial arts thread. I'd be happy discuss martial arts with you there. It would also be nice to see the thread revived by someone new.

Well, I suppose the argument is fair on either side and solely depends on personal belief. If we look at the two extremes, a misanthropist like Kyuu would see the arrogance and the naivete behind the idea of being able to save everyone's life, while a philanthropist like myself would focus more on the aspects of justice and preserving human rights. So I think both extremes have valid points.

Fair enough my good man. Was a pleasure as always. Though, these are characters of extremes as they are pretty much tropes of character archetypes. So I suppose the angle is up to interpretation. I will say this, I do believe Gosho intends your view. However, I do not see it as a realistic view, but an idealistic view that is not possible in the scope of the real world.

[MadelineLime 45]

... DC obviously has plot-holes, however the sense of justice in the protagonists is a main theme of the story and shouldn't be considered a "flaw", even in characterization.

Why exactly can't this be a flaw? He's put people's lives in danger countless times because he wants to stumble on a way out that means nobody gets killed. That's a huge character issue, especially given than he's so amazing at figuring out mysteries, puzzles, and problems. That actually gives him some balance. He should never be, nor considered, perfect at everything, without regard.

Whether intended or not, Gosho has given a great example where arrogance to think you can always fix everything in life, (especially dangerous situations with a criminal who is backed against a wall and needs an outlet to flee, and also has a gun/bomb), can be a very dangerous mindset.

[ConanEdogawa1990 0]

Hi, I really do love Ran because she's smart, pretty, etc. But, let me just say one thing about her, from episode 6, she had somewhat figured out that Conan and Shinichi are one in the same but, Although Conan figures ways to prove her wrong. The reason why He does that is because if the BO ever found out that Conan\Shinichi is alive. Well, let me put it this way. He just wants to protect her. If anything were to happen to his friends and family. Even her, He'll just blame himself. I love everything about her.

[ConanEdogawa1990 0]

Well, peeps, forgot to say yesterday that if there's anyone who should be killed of DC, it's Gen and Vodka

[Antiyonder 10]

Although Conan figures ways to prove her wrong. The reason why He does that is because if the BO ever found out that Conan\Shinichi is alive. Well, let me put it this way. He just wants to protect her. If anything were to happen to his friends and family. Even her, He'll just blame himself. I love everything about her.

 

That particular reasoning loses effectiveness when you look at Episode 425.  Gin suspects Kogoro to be onto the Organization and seeks to kill him.  When Conan shows up, he's prepared to kill him too.

 

And just to clarify, to Gin, I'm pretty sure he sees Conan as nothing more than a 6/7 year old boy, but is willing to kill him due to association with their target.

 

As such, if Gin and Vodka find out he's Conan, then Kogoro and Ran are going to be targets whether they know or not, simply because he lives with them.

 

So if anything, coming clean with his secret or moving out and distancing himself from them would be more effective means to protect them.  At this point, he doesn't even need Kogoro in regards of being able to get a lead on the organization either.  If he needs help in finding them, he has the option of a much better detective in Heiji (who actually is aware of said group), or his father's connection to Interpol.

 

Frankly the only reason the status quo is preserved is the questionable reason of how Ran finding out about Shinichi would either lessen the drama or limit potential story ideas.

[Patronus Charm 53]

I've never given much thought about Ran and the romance in DC in general aside from it's okay, it's tolerable but things do change. I think Ran is basically the romance in DC, which I admit to have developed a dislike as I see it more because I see less relevance to her character and the romance as well. I understand however that she is supposed to be Shinichi's biggest motivation to get back to his original self but I find it less believable now perhaps because of the slow development. She's one ideal girl but she's too ideal to the point that she bores me. How about a believable flaw or maybe an impressive feature about her that no one has expected from her yet? I even had this thought that Ayumi is just a 7-year-old version of Ran and yet I see Ayumi as a better character than her.

[Antiyonder 10]

^^^Well I could be exaggerating, but I think that's owed to the fact that as a Detective Boy, Ayumi's actually doing something of importance with her screentime, whereas Ran for all of her screentime really is there just for the sake of well, being there.

[detectivezheyran 3]

I disagree,she has her flaws:

-she is too naive and often easily manipulated due to her selflessness

-She puts on a guise to hide her insecurity and flaws

-She isn't up front and honest and seems to lack something significant when Kudo isn't around. My thoughts are that they cover each others weaknesses. Kudo protects her from naivety, manipulation, and releases her from that "perfect" guise. Whereas she humbles Kudo and his ego as well as protect him physically with martial arts. That's the best part of their relationship.

I agree with the character development statement Kyuu said to the extent that DC moves slowly in general so plot and character development for the main characters will move like a snail. The other characters are more filler and thus have more development. However, i think things will move faster compared to the past.

i totally agree!!!and what is wrong if she's perfect?she being perfect makes you guys hate her?!...then why not ask Gosho-sensei to have Ran reveal all her flaws?

[Kenzi 146]

i totally agree!!!and what is wrong if she's perfect?she being perfect makes you guys hate her?!...then why not ask Gosho-sensei to have Ran reveal all her flaws?

Sorry to bash on this, but I completely disagree.

 

Being perfect is a flaw in itself. It's boring, predictable, and it gets old real fast.

 

Not saying that Ran is perfect, because she does have a fair amount of flaws.

[detectivezheyran 3]

Sorry to bash on this, but I completely disagree.

Being perfect is a flaw in itself. It's boring, predictable, and it gets old real fast.

Not saying that Ran is perfect, because she does have a fair amount of flaws.

ohw well...we have our own opinions....so i guess we should respect each other's opinion right?

[Akazora 293]

Ran is the type of girl that would be great as a real life girlfriend because she's so loyal, but as an anime/manga character she's kind of flat.

 

In my opinion she's neither likable nor dislikable.

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

She's kinda boring really and too one-sided character. It's probably because she is not given that much limelight. That leaves her character and personality unexplored at lengths. Same with Kazuha. If you'll see, her only purpose in the story is to give purpose for Shinichi to hunt down the BO. I don't dislike her but Gosho needs to give her more depth, storywise. The only time where I felt her presence in the episode is on the episode in the first season where she tries to corner Conan into submitting that he is Shinichi.

Sonoko even beats her in terms of the depth of personality. The only description that I can give to Ran is she's the girl that Shinichi likes and she does Karate. She's hard at the outside but soft in the inside. She also cries too much.

[Scotch 0]

I find that she's boring, cries a lot, I find her annoying and she resorts to violence too fast except when she should use it and gets in the way much more often then she helps.

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

Well I kinda like her character in the first episodes before the DC universe expanded so much. Her involvement in the plot is more enticing at that time but I think as the series wore on, things changed lol. Her plot is poorly written, now. She became too predictable. It's like 50% of the time when she shows up, it's most likely that she'll say that she misses Shinichi or she hopes that she is strong enough or something between those lines. (or probably she'll do her Karate gimmicks)