Kleene Onigiri 42 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 P.S Why does my post always get double posted Ghosts are haunting you and doubleposting D:! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! Anyway, I believe in ghosts. But I don#t want Kyuu-chan to quote-spam me XD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
im abcd 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Nope. It's http://www.hungzai.com Ok,will check it out . Ghosts are haunting you and doubleposting D:! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! Anyway, I believe in ghosts. But I don#t want Kyuu-chan to quote-spam me XD Haha,thats seems kinda plausible Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 I actually believe that babies and animals have the power to see the supernatural. I believe it because many friends and my own family have experienced and told me about it. Babies and animals don't lie and they don't exaggerate so we choose to believe it. Of course there cannot be so many coincidences in the world. If no reason can be made, then I choose to believe that there are. Of course if you like, I may share the stories so that someone can find a logical explanation to them and prove that those are just coincidences and explanable~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyuu Nye 425 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Ghosts are haunting you and doubleposting D:! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! Anyway, I believe in ghosts. But I don#t want Kyuu-chan to quote-spam me XD HEY! I have not quote spammed anyone in this yet, other than someone who AGREES with me, and that was a singular quote. Though after I find it, I'm going to link to the DCTP topic so that everyone can read the many walls of text. Which are mostly by Jd- (for anti-Ghosts) and are very good. He basically said what I wanted to in great detail when I didn't have the time or patience to the research necessary for long posts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BK201 31 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Hmm... The world is full of mysteries that even Science cAn't solve/explain... There are questions better left unanswered. Mysteries better left unsolved... I am open to the possibilities of the Supernatural world. It may or may nOt exist, but who knows? I haven't seEn/experienced any supernatural phenOmenOns yet, but it doesn't mean they doN't exist, right? If we are put on the shoes of those who're 'gifted', then we will surely believe in them. In the end, who knows? :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyuu Nye 425 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Hmm... The world is full of mysteries that even Science cAn't solve/explain... There are questions better left unanswered. Mysteries better left unsolved... I am open to the possibilities of the Supernatural world. It may or may nOt exist, but who knows? I haven't seEn/experienced any supernatural phenOmenOns yet, but it doesn't mean they doN't exist, right? If we are put on the shoes of those who're 'gifted', then we will surely believe in them. In the end, who knows? :P Not true, as I said previously, most supernatural phenomena HAS been identified as something quantifiable, which is why most scientists don't concern themselves with studying it. It is a dead-end field (Sorry Ghostbusters, but we still love you). Here are some enlightening links for all you pro-ghost people to visit, including DCTP's version of this topic. First on the list... The Shady Science of Ghost Hunting You can read the first half of it, but really, the real brunt of the article in relation to our discussion starts at "Devices that don't work" and more importantly "Reality Check." Really I think they could have applied the concept of Occam's Razor to add another dimension, but hey, its a good article regardless. Now the next two are Cracked articles, slightly less legitimate, but they do usually do their research and mention many good things. The Creepy Scientific Explanation Behind Ghost Sightings The title says it all.. 10 Famous Unsolved Mysteries Easily Explained by Science Read more: 10 Famous Unsolved Mysteries Easily Explained by Science | Cracked.com http://www.cracked.com/article_19205_10-famous-unsolved-mysteries-easily-explained-by-science_p2.html#ixzz1d2ACJAYL #5 is the point of interest here... It explains actual ghost sightings. Last but not least, DCTP's thread DCTP's Do you believe in ghosts thread Feel free to read both sides, but pay special attention to Jd-'s posts. BTW, that is also where Kleene defends her position AGAINST Jd-. Quite interesting really... Also, that is why I don't feel the NEED to go after Kleene's beliefs, I've already done it once before accompanied by Jd- and Abs. if I recall correctly. Now to those of you who are likely thinking, "BUT KYUU! WHAT ABOUT ALL THOSE GHOST SHOWS WITH VIDEO EVIDENCES!?!?!?!?!" Well... Here are two links that you should likely read up on Pepper's Ghost. Also this is a fun video! More camera trickery! There is plenty of videos, articles, and so fourth that PROVE that it isn't a ghost, but YOU placing a "ghost" there. I would be harsher with my words and tonality, but I'm trying REALLY hard not to be mean with this. If you consider that first link I posted and the fact that it explains that those ghost hunting devices don't work, combine it with the two Cracked articles, and throw it into the mix with Pepper's Ghost, EVERY SINGLE LAST GHOST SIGHTING IS EXPLAINED! And if they aren't there is something called "lying," because lets face it, every ghost story is anecdotal and is NEVER replicated. As for there being phenomena that is unexplainable by science, sure there are things that are left unknown by science, but none of them are supernatural, because EVERY supernatural phenomena is ANECDOTAL and NOT REPRODUCIBLE. The things that I know science can't explain, and my genetics professor jokingly said that those things were "magic." And when you think about it that is not entirely untrue. The natural world IS magical when you think about it, but not because it is supernatural, but because it can do things that humans have been unable to replicate, or cannot figure out as of yet despite countless hours of research and grant money put into solving the issue. None of that means that they aren't unexplainable, but that we don't have the tools necessary to explain them yet. But again, feel free to prove me wrong and collect that one million dollar bounty, and remember to check the log of applicants. Enjoy this long information filled post. Naturally you are entitled to believe what you want, but until you can prove it, don't try and convince anyone that ghosts exist, because there is NO evidence of them existing, but plenty of evidence DISPROVING ghost SIGHTINGS and ghost RELATED phenomena (please note that I never said science disproved ghosts, as stated, it hasn't and probably won't because there are more important things to study and no one will fund that research) Now I'll believe in ghosts when someone can show me some hard evidence of them existing, I have the same policy with ALL supernatural things. I don't discount any possibilities, but I don't believe anything until I can see tangible evidence of it. tl;dr: All signs point to ghosts NOT existing. The possibility remains, but until science can prove it, they don't. Funny thing about that is if science does prove it, not only will it not be supernatural, but a name will be affixed to it that will likely not be ghost because it will be connected to a natural phenomena. But as it stands all "evidence" of ghosts and supernatural phenomena hasn't stood up to even the slightest scrutiny. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BK201 31 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 *nosebleeds* great argument, kyuu directed to nO oNe in particular: some 'mysteries' might be explained by science, but are we sure that that's just it? What if there's a mOre 'supernatural' explanation behind it? Science disproving these 'supernatural' thing-ies doesn't really mean they dOn't exist right? And i believe that as loNg as there are people who believe them, they will exist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyuu Nye 425 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 *nosebleeds* great argument, kyuu directed to nO oNe in particular: some 'mysteries' might be explained by science, but are we sure that that's just it? What if there's a mOre 'supernatural' explanation behind it? Science disproving these 'supernatural' thing-ies doesn't really mean they dOn't exist right? And i believe that as loNg as there are people who believe them, they will exist. Still explained by science, in some way or another... Likely through theoretical science, but it is still explained. And as I said, I don't discount any possibilities, but once explained not only are they no longer supernatural... And yes, science is usually quite certain of its findings once properly analyzed. It is always subject to revision, but usually the basis of the study that was proven still holds true. Also... Just because I want to say it here before anyone else beats me to it... The truth about ghosts is... THEY ARE REALLY CYBERMEN FROM A PARALLEL UNIVERSE WHOM ARE TRYING TO PASS THROUGH TO OUR UNIVERSE! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BK201 31 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 anyway, isn't there a branch of science that studies the paranormal...? If ghosts aren't true, them Good. If they exist, then it's still Good. It all dEpends on you, really. To those who have experienced it, they exist, while to those who haven't, they're just a figment of oNe's imagination. It's a never-ending bAttle between Facts/Science and Experience/Traditions/beliefs, really. and in the end, WHO KNOWS? :V (i'm loving this phrase already :V) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyuu Nye 425 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 anyway, isn't there a branch of science that studies the paranormal...? If ghosts aren't true, them Good. If they exist, then it's still Good. It all dEpends on you, really. To those who have experienced it, they exist, while to those who haven't, they're just a figment of oNe's imagination. It's a never-ending bAttle between Facts/Science and Experience/Traditions/beliefs, really. and in the end, WHO KNOWS? :V (i'm loving this phrase already :V) You have seen too much ghost related things, especially the Ghostbusters... As far as I know, no legitimate college offers it outside of the movies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BK201 31 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Ohh, really... I've read it soMewhere, or maybe it's just my imagination. :P also... If your doOr sudDenly opened itself, then you say, 'it's just the wind.', but is it? If the wind is dEad when that happened, you say, 'it's just a vibration or soMewhere aloNg those lines and [insert scientific explanation here]', but is that all there is to it? :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyuu Nye 425 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Ohh, really... I've read it soMewhere, or maybe it's just my imagination. :P also... If your doOr sudDenly opened itself, then you say, 'it's just the wind.', but is it? If the wind is dEad when that happened, you say, 'it's just a vibration or soMewhere aloNg those lines and [insert scientific explanation here]', but is that all there is to it? :P Doors don't "just open." If the door was initially ajar, and it is say a closet, likely it was the aircon or heat creating negative pressure that opened it. Hell, it wouldn't need to be a closet, that can happen with any door. There are other explanations other than "wind" to explain why things happen. Then you have the spring in the latch that could push the door open. "You see, but you do not observe. The distinction is clear." In order to understand one must first observe. Most people are not willing or do not know how to observe and they miss the simple explanations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BK201 31 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Ah, yes. Simple explanations. But what if there is mOre to it? "What you see, isn't really always what it is..." anyway, it's 1:45 in the dawn here and i still got classes tomorrow, so i got to sleep now. Ja, kyuu! It's really nice talking with you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyuu Nye 425 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Ah, yes. Simple explanations. But what if there is mOre to it? "What you see, isn't really always what it is..." anyway, it's 1:45 in the dawn here and i still got classes tomorrow, so i got to sleep now. Ja, kyuu! It's really nice talking with you That frame of mind is wrong. At that point you start over thinking and affixing fictional reasons to satisfy your own preconceived notions on WHY something is occurring instead of observing and deducing the actual cause, as simple as it may be. Or it could be very much not be simple and instead be a combination of things that is quite complex. Like the added presence of stress and your psyche tricking you into thinking you are seeing or hearing something that isn't there. There are such things as visual and auditory hallucinations. However, such occurrences are quite explainable in some form or another. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Of course many things can be explained as hallucinations. But if two or three people happen to hallucinate the exact same thing? Is that a coincidence? We aren't saying things like, the door opens by itself, or windows slide open by itself, or the house shakes or stuff like that. Of course, there are people who link them to ghosts and stuff but most of them are just thinking too much and those incidents are easily explainable by Science. You can choose not to believe in what people say they have seen. But when it actually happens, its hard not to believe. Your friends see it but you don't. That's the scary part. >__< Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsukiko 73 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 I don't believe in ghosts. dot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyuu Nye 425 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Of course many things can be explained as hallucinations. But if two or three people happen to hallucinate the exact same thing? Is that a coincidence? We aren't saying things like, the door opens by itself, or windows slide open by itself, or the house shakes or stuff like that. Of course, there are people who link them to ghosts and stuff but most of them are just thinking too much and those incidents are easily explainable by Science. You can choose not to believe in what people say they have seen. But when it actually happens, its hard not to believe. Your friends see it but you don't. That's the scary part. >__< Did I mention something about preconceived notions? I think I did. Usually when those stories overlap the story is set and they are seeing what they are expecting to see. Whether it is due to stress from being in the "haunted" area, a certain natural frequency, or your mind tricking you into seeing what you want to see. The human brain can do many great things including making you believe something is there when its not. Again, science has proven all of these as possibilities, and unlike ghosts, can be reproduced in a controlled setting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Did I mention something about preconceived notions? I think I did. Usually when those stories overlap the story is set and they are seeing what they are expecting to see. Whether it is due to stress from being in the "haunted" area, a certain natural frequency, or your mind tricking you into seeing what you want to see. The human brain can do many great things including making you believe something is there when its not. Again, science has proven all of these as possibilities, and unlike ghosts, can be reproduced in a controlled setting. What happens if there is nothing to preconceived? Two different people who have no idea what each other have seen told two different sets of people about the incident and it turned out to be exactly the same. Not as in overlap, but exactly the same. The weird thing is, only two of them are able to 'see' what they saw and no one else could. The rest could 'preconceive' what they are told, like what you said, but coincidences don't occur on an everyday basis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyuu Nye 425 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 What happens if there is nothing to preconceived? Two different people who have no idea what each other have seen told two different sets of people about the incident and it turned out to be exactly the same. Not as in overlap, but exactly the same. The weird thing is, only two of them are able to 'see' what they saw and no one else could. The rest could 'preconceive' what they are told, like what you said, but coincidences don't occur on an everyday basis. Find me a non-anecdotal example please. This is all theoretical. I have heard of stories like that, but they are never first person accounts that were documented completely separately, they are always a THIRD party telling the story or told in hind sight. This allows for fabrication. I have seen more than enough UM to know that people quite often fabricate things, or exaggerate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Find me a non-anecdotal example please. This is all theoretical. I have heard of stories like that, but they are never first person accounts that were documented completely separately, they are always a THIRD party telling the story or told in hind sight. This allows for fabrication. I have seen more than enough UM to know that people quite often fabricate things, or exaggerate. I'll tell you what happened tomorrow. Its over midnight here and Im not sure I would like to think about it. And tell you the truth I am the THIRD party because I didn't actually go and see it. But I doubt they would lie about what they saw because we had to bear heavy consequences and they are not the kind of people who would exaggerate. Let's continue tomorrow morning~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyuu Nye 425 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 I'll tell you what happened tomorrow. Its over midnight here and Im not sure I would like to think about it. And tell you the truth I am the THIRD party because I didn't actually go and see it. But I doubt they would lie about what they saw because we had to bear heavy consequences and they are not the kind of people who would exaggerate. Let's continue tomorrow morning~ That is anecdotal kklt. Besides, by you knowing those involved it creates a bias. There are also several factors to consider when determining story validity as well, and my guess is you broke all three. First is first hand experience, second is time span since the incident (the more time, the more fabrication occurs, whether you intended it or not), and third is of there is possibility of bias. There are more, but those are basic. I've been well trained as a skeptic, so I wish you luck convincing me. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aika 23 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 I guess it happens more in Asia than other places. Until Science is able to explain everything, I would think that I'd rather believe in it than not. Yep more in indian villages or used to be. as for i rather believe it till sciences explains it all too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyuu Nye 425 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 Yep more in indian villages or used to be. as for i rather believe it till sciences explains it all too. I request that you go back and read my lengthy post and all links within it. You'll be surprised at how much science has explained. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aika 23 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 I request that you go back and read my lengthy post and all links within it. You'll be surprised at how much science has explained. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk It sure has explained many things and many possibilities I don't deny that. As for my post about in indian villages it was mostly about people being possessed by something or acting like being possessed. For supernatural things science has not explained everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
im abcd 0 Report post Posted November 7, 2011 I request that you go back and read my lengthy post and all links within it. You'll be surprised at how much science has explained. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk You sure do strongly oppose the idea of ghosts don't you ? ......I wish everybody had the same sense of things Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
