Do you believe in ghosts ?

[Kyuu Nye 425]

@kyuu:- I found something while searching randomly what do you think of this ?

Here are the links story where i read and video Coverage of FOX 31

Story

Video Mar 2008

So a guy says he hears something that can't be captured by recording equipment (which captures sounds even humans can't hear), and a chair moves which can be easily faked on film...

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[aika 23]

So a guy says he hears something that can't be captured by recording equipment (which captures sounds even humans can't hear), and a chair moves which can be easily faked on film...

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As of what i thought it was Fake From the start cuz from MAR 2008 till now there were no reports like that ever found in that restaurant.

Why was all the ridiculous Thing was telecasted "publicity" Cheapskates

[BK201 31]

Yeah, there are MANY hauntings that are oNly fakes. But it does nOt neccesarily mean that all are fake...

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Yeah, there are MANY hauntings that are oNly fakes. But it does nOt neccesarily mean that all are fake...

Problem is no haunting has held up under scrutiny.

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[Sayomi 17]

Ghosts are just there to scare kids and make money off of tourists. That's about it

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

Proof is simple, I don't need pictures or video, those aren't trustworthy. I need measurements taken by accredited instruments that are linked unequivocally with paranormal activity. No such instrument exists. In order for ghosts to be real, and for stories to be true, there must be some energy clustered, and thus readings should be possible. If not then there is no possible way for ghosts to be seen or interact with the environment as suggested by the stories. And there cannot be any other possible explanation for it. And considering that the RELIABLE detection instruments found nothing in supposedly "haunted" areas, I cannot believe ghosts to be true. Ghosts interact and are present in some way in the physical world. They can't move something without being present, that presence should be able to be detected by science. Since it isn't all of that is BS. Science has explained why ghosts don't exist. Really, find me some concrete evidence that isn't from hokey science that can hold up to scrutiny, and I'll be a believer. While we are at it, we'll gain some money.

All believers in ghosts agree on one thing, that ghosts exist as a manifestation of the human spirit (energy) in the living world that can interact and be seen. Go back to that hotel alone and see if you can replicate that spirit, she must still be there, right? Prove me wrong. I have proven to you why I believe to be right using links, scientific evidence, and you have given me anecdotal evidence that could have easily been fabricated to cover something else up, or could have been changed or exaggerated. All it takes a little fear to make people believe, and if there is a naturally occurring frequency of about 18Hz (just below the human detection limit) and the mere inclination that a ghost MIGHT exist to make someone up and leave. Frequency of Fear

Again, if ghosts were real, or any other paranormal then Mr Randi would have been out a million dollars LONG ago. His standards were agreed upon by BOTH sides. In other words, every single person who took part in that challenge believed that they could prove the existence of paranormal phenomena under laboratory conditions. NOT ONE COULD IN 30+ YEARS! NONE! Hell, none even passed the preliminary phase.

I believe no one could do it under laboratory conditions. The situations itself is already rare and random. Even 'those who can see them' only meet them very few times in their entire lifetime. No one knows where a ghost can appear or whether it is there or how long it would be there. Science cannot even explain all the paranormal activities yet. How could someone prove something is there when we don't know what it is? 30 years is still considered short. Also, how many scientists will actually research on ghosts? Most of the scientists are people like you who resist the idea.

People believe they are masses of energy. This is a guess and no one really knows. They are using instruments to measure something that we already know, but if so, we would already have found out the real identity of ghosts earlier on. What we are believing is something which might not be science. So what use would 'scientific' experiments actually proof?

You can stick to your own believe. The world would be scary if ghosts are proven true.

Still, to me, something which hasn't been proven, doesn't mean its not there. When I believe it, I don't necessarily hope it to be there, unlike those who actually challenged to prove it.

[BK201 31]

^ you said what's oN my mind...

[Kyuu Nye 425]

I give up... I'll just refer you back to the DCTP thread and say again to read the debate between Jd- and Kleene... This has been done before... I would c/p Jd-'s responses to what you said, but that takes considerably more effort. Pretty much EVERY argument that you have said has been argued by Jd- in greater length and detail than I have time for.

I should mention that that 30 years is what James Randi has set up and documented all comers to his challenge. You don't really believe that its only been 30 years since people have tried to prove ghosts, right? It has been more like 1000 (probably more) years, and STILL not one shred of reliable evidence.

[aika 23]

I give up... I'll just refer you back to the DCTP thread and say again to read the debate between Jd- and Kleene... This has been done before... I would c/p Jd-'s responses to what you said, but that takes considerably more effort. Pretty much EVERY argument that you have said has been argued by Jd- in greater length and detail than I have time for.

I should mention that that 30 years is what James Randi has set up and documented all comers to his challenge. You don't really believe that its only been 30 years since people have tried to prove ghosts, right? It has been more like 1000 (probably more) years, and STILL not one shred of reliable evidence.

But Science Wasn't reliable or that good 1000 years ago was it now ?

[Kleene Onigiri 42]

I give up... I'll just refer you back to the DCTP thread and say again to read the debate between Jd- and Kleene... This has been done before... I would c/p Jd-'s responses to what you said, but that takes considerably more effort. Pretty much EVERY argument that you have said has been argued by Jd- in greater length and detail than I have time for.

I should mention that that 30 years is what James Randi has set up and documented all comers to his challenge. You don't really believe that its only been 30 years since people have tried to prove ghosts, right? It has been more like 1000 (probably more) years, and STILL not one shred of reliable evidence.

And also stated in that discussion, you can't have prove that something doesn't exist.

You can only explain a seeing of a ghost as fake. But that's not proof that they don't exist at all.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

But Science Wasn't reliable or that good 1000 years ago was it now ?

Doesn't matter, because it is progressive. People tried to prove ghosts in the 19,20 and 21st centuries. Are you saying during those 300 years science is still unreliable, and that they couldn't effectively test for ghosts?

@Kleene: The problem is that they do exist if they are real, they interact with the physical world. Considering that you are saying they don't exist, which is why they can't be proven... well then... They don't exist at all. Is that so hard of a concept to grasp? If they exist they interact with the physical world they can be proven. If they don't exist they don't interact with the physical world, they do not exist at all. Hence there is nothing to prove because there is nothing there in the first place.

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

I give up... I'll just refer you back to the DCTP thread and say again to read the debate between Jd- and Kleene... This has been done before... I would c/p Jd-'s responses to what you said, but that takes considerably more effort. Pretty much EVERY argument that you have said has been argued by Jd- in greater length and detail than I have time for.

I should mention that that 30 years is what James Randi has set up and documented all comers to his challenge. You don't really believe that its only been 30 years since people have tried to prove ghosts, right? It has been more like 1000 (probably more) years, and STILL not one shred of reliable evidence.

Well, I doubt this topic was set up intending for a debate. Read the topic. (Though I think a debate on this topic is still within topic)

Also, I was never a 'debate' kind of person, so if you were wishing for a better one, I am so sorry to have disappointed you.

What I have been saying is why I believe that they exist, and my own experiences which lead me to believe.

I have been reiterating that you can choose not to believe if you don't want to.

You don't have to make everyone take your stand and agree with you.

But as for me, I think that there's nothing really impossible in this world. What may seem impossible now may not be in future. There may not be evidences now doesn't mean that there won't be in future. I don't think that idea is impossible. So I am going to believe they exist.

[aika 23]

Doesn't matter, because it is progressive. People tried to prove ghosts in the 19,20 and 21st centuries. Are you saying during those 300 years science is still unreliable, and that they couldn't effectively test for ghosts?

In 300 hundread year many invention and discoveries were made most in tech not many scientists would have wasted their time on ghost i presume.

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

ghosts dont believe that people exist either :V

Also kyuu is putting on an awesome debate

as for me ghost do not exist

[Kyuu Nye 425]

In 300 hundread year many invention and discoveries were made most in tech not many scientists would have wasted their time on ghost i presume.

You are kidding right? Please tell me that is a joke... You are saying scientists NEVER tested for ghosts EVER?! You obviously have never met a scientist then. We WANT to understand everything. So if there was a possibility of ghosts existing, it would have been tested to death, which it was. Which is why there are scientific reasons why people think they see and "feel" ghosts. The amount of testing on the paranormal is probably more than anything else because it is the most widely claimed thing in the world, and the one thing never proven.

[aika 23]

You are kidding right? Please tell me that is a joke... You are saying scientists NEVER tested for ghosts EVER?! You obviously have never met a scientist then. We WANT to understand everything. So if there was a possibility of ghosts existing, it would have been tested to death, which it was. Which is why there are scientific reasons why people think they see and "feel" ghosts. The amount of testing on the paranormal is probably more than anything else because it is the most widely claimed thing in the world, and the one thing never proven.

I never Said "never ever" just that not many scientists would have tried to proof as it was not proven by many.

People tend to go where there is money and scope for the field. not many out there sponsoring to test to see ghosts Exsistence.

[Parkur 165]

i win this thread

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

You are kidding right? Please tell me that is a joke... You are saying scientists NEVER tested for ghosts EVER?! You obviously have never met a scientist then. We WANT to understand everything. So if there was a possibility of ghosts existing, it would have been tested to death, which it was. Which is why there are scientific reasons why people think they see and "feel" ghosts. The amount of testing on the paranormal is probably more than anything else because it is the most widely claimed thing in the world, and the one thing never proven.

No really, I dont think he meant never.

Proving ghosts are there is really difficult, since it defies the main procedures of science and how theories are formulated. Spontaneous cases like this is difficult to repeat and reproduce. I doubt the scientists have NEVER EVER found ANY small evidences like you said. It just wasn't proven to be conclusive. Theories are easier to disproved than proved. Do you think it takes tens or thousands of years to produce someone called Newton out of billions of people to discover gravity and the rest of the people didn't realize that things were falling down instead of up? They just didn't research on it. Either that or explanations weren't made into theories. Also, what made Newton's laws stay for hundred's of years before Einstein's laws override his? Science actually builds itself up from foundation and anything that doesn't follow this foundation will be difficult to be proven.

But do you think people or the government would put their money into somewhere like this where results don't really benefit the society? I doubt that. So it isn't really like searching for UFO's and searching the universe for a planet which can support life forms. This area is not so much supported and there would be less people researching on it.

[Kleene Onigiri 42]

Doesn't matter, because it is progressive. People tried to prove ghosts in the 19,20 and 21st centuries. Are you saying during those 300 years science is still unreliable, and that they couldn't effectively test for ghosts?

@Kleene: The problem is that they do exist if they are real, they interact with the physical world. Considering that you are saying they don't exist, which is why they can't be proven... well then... They don't exist at all. Is that so hard of a concept to grasp? If they exist they interact with the physical world they can be proven. If they don't exist they don't interact with the physical world, they do not exist at all. Hence there is nothing to prove because there is nothing there in the first place.

You said Science has proven that ghost don't exist. Now you said that there is nothing to prove since there is nothing, thus there can't be prove.

That's what I said I said in general, if something doesn't exist at all, you can't prove it.

You can't prove that something doesn't exist. You can just prove that something does exist. (Or prove that something doesn't exist in a limited area. Like proving, that there is nor Iron in that bottle. Doesn't mean iron doesn't exist at all)

The only thing is, that you weren't able to prove something (yet). But that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist at all.

That's why there are theories to help out in such situations. Actually, most higher chemistry, Physics etc. are theories. But theories aren't proofs. They are theories D:

[aika 23]

No really, I dont think he meant never.

Proving ghosts are there is really difficult, since it defies the main procedures of science and how theories are formulated. Spontaneous cases like this is difficult to repeat and reproduce. I doubt the scientists have NEVER EVER found ANY small evidences like you said. It just wasn't proven to be conclusive. Theories are easier to disproved than proved. Do you think it takes tens or thousands of years to produce someone called Newton out of billions of people to discover gravity and the rest of the people didn't realize that things were falling down instead of up? They just didn't research on it. Either that or explanations weren't made into theories. Also, what made Newton's laws stay for hundred's of years before Einstein's laws override his? Science actually builds itself up from foundation and anything that doesn't follow this foundation will be difficult to be proven.

But do you think people or the government would put their money into somewhere like this where results don't really benefit the society? I doubt that. So it isn't really like searching for UFO's and searching the universe for a planet which can support life forms. This area is not so much supported and there would be less people researching on it.

That's exactly what i wanted to say.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

You said Science has proven that ghost don't exist. Now you said that there is nothing to prove since there is nothing, thus there can't be prove.

That's what I said I said in general, if something doesn't exist at all, you can't prove it.

You can't prove that something doesn't exist. You can just prove that something does exist. (Or prove that something doesn't exist in a limited area. Like proving, that there is nor Iron in that bottle. Doesn't mean iron doesn't exist at all)

The only thing is, that you weren't able to prove something (yet). But that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist at all.

That's why there are theories to help out in such situations. Actually, most higher chemistry, Physics etc. are theories. But theories aren't proofs. They are theories D:

I want to reply, but if I do, it will be so very condescending and mean, I shall refrain. And it is really in reply to those last two sentences... Really... I just cannot. I'm sorry but I am done... I cannot carry on this debate... It will make me want to kill something/someone. Hey! Maybe if I do we can prove if ghosts exist! Ghosts are supposed to appear after a violent death right?

[aika 23]

I want to reply, but if I do, it will be so very condescending and mean, I shall refrain. And it is really in reply to those last two sentences... Really... I just cannot. I'm sorry but I am done... I cannot carry on this debate... It will make me want to kill something/someone. Hey! Maybe if I do we can prove if ghosts exist! Ghosts are supposed to appear after a violent death right?

let me write my will before kyuu kill me or anyone else grant the dying wish kyuu.

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

I want to reply, but if I do, it will be so very condescending and mean, I shall refrain. And it is really in reply to those last two sentences... Really... I just cannot. I'm sorry but I am done... I cannot carry on this debate... It will make me want to kill something/someone. Hey! Maybe if I do we can prove if ghosts exist! Ghosts are supposed to appear after a violent death right?

No wait!!!

Ghosts do exist! Look!

<<

[CarpetCrawler 280]

And now the thread has been locked. No one is going to change anyone's mind and arguing about this is useless.