Who's better off with Shinichi? Haibara Ai or Ran??

[Akazora 293]

what do you mean with that?

?.?

Well, there is a rivalry between DCW and DCTP, both competing to be the greater of the Detective Conan websites.

Moho and Kyuu both were originally from DCTP, if I'm not mistaken, but both have sort of ventured over to DCW.

Moho has apparently completely switched over to DCW, but Kyuu obviously still has strong connections with DCTP.

They're just bantering about which site it better, nothing more than that.

[Kaito Lady 0]

oh, i see...

and its true bout the post dense thing!!!

thats why i keep myself a bit away from there :/

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Well, there is a rivalry between DCW and DCTP, both competing to be the greater of the Detective Conan websites.

Moho and Kyuu both were originally from DCTP, if I'm not mistaken, but both have sort of ventured over to DCW.

Moho has apparently completely switched over to DCW, but Kyuu obviously still has strong connections with DCTP.

They're just bantering about which site it better, nothing more than that.

Considering that I am staff over at DCTP, it's hard for me to completely switch (and I will likely never).

Also, I'll say this, neither is inherently better than the other, so there should be no rivalry (I think the "rivalry" is more of a joke than anything).

Both have their functions, and purpose. If you think about it, this site would not exist without DCTP, or at least it would not be the same. Mainly because DCTP is the main source of English Detective Conan translations, manga and anime alike. DCTP is a great source for getting the translations and getting info about the series in general. We have a lot of fantastic members who bring us news fairly quickly. I'm not sure if it is the same here, as I haven't been here long enough. However, what will always be true is that DCTP will always be the place to find the English translations first.

DCW is probably the best conglomeration of Detective Conan related information on the internet. Including theories (some of which I disagree with). Also I tend to disagree with some things in the Wiki, but it isn't the information itself, it rather how it is worded. Gosho likes to be vague, so there are instances in the Wiki where it is stated as fact, despite the source being rather vague. You can infer that is his intent, but I believe that it should be definite before it is worded like that. However, the fact is that I was using DCW to provide for debates long before I joined, because the Wiki is simply fantastic, and it has a plethora of information on just about every subject you could want.

[tengaku squared 291]

Well, there is a rivalry between DCW and DCTP, both competing to be the greater of the Detective Conan websites.

Moho and Kyuu both were originally from DCTP, if I'm not mistaken, but both have sort of ventured over to DCW.

Moho has apparently completely switched over to DCW, but Kyuu obviously still has strong connections with DCTP.

They're just bantering about which site it better, nothing more than that.

Before we get back on topic, I will note two problems with the above.

1. As most people seem to have said, the rivalry is more or less a joke if anything. It started, I believe, when DCTP members like Chekhov and Parkur came along to DCW (we then nicknamed it the Invasion).
2. I am originally from DCW, and ventured onto DCTP, not the other way around. I mainly come on DCTP because of my Mafia-addiction and general Conan news and episodes.

[Amaranth 52]

I'd like Shinichi to end up with Shiho, but I don't think that's what's gonna happen.

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

I'd like Shinichi to end up with Shiho, but I don't think that's what's gonna happen.

lucky for me im a ranshi so i dont worry about that

[Amaranth 52]

lucky for me im a ranshi so i dont worry about that

Anyway, Shinichi is definitely meant for Ran. ConanAi fans just love to root for the underdog.

[hopes 237]

Ran. If he's Conan, than Ai.

[Kiel95 86]

Anyway, Shinichi is definitely meant for Ran. ConanAi fans just love to root for the underdog.

i actually usually hate rooting for the underdog... shiho/ai is just my favorite dc character and i think she makes an amazing pairing with shinichi/conan... her personality and his... and how they trust each other and such... am i the only one that sees the CHEMISTRY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Kyuu Nye 425]

i actually usually hate rooting for the underdog... shiho/ai is just my favorite dc character and i think she makes an amazing pairing with shinichi/conan... her personality and his... and how they trust each other and such... am i the only one that sees the CHEMISTRY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Nope. It is definitely there. Ran and Shinichi never worked in my eyes... They are too different. If they get married I have a sneaking suspicion that they'll end up like Eri and Kogorou. Yuusaku and Yukiko are pretty different except for one vital thing, they are both eccentric as hell, which means they are both somewhat crazy and thus work well together. Ran is far too reserved and conservative. Gosho made her into the typical Japanese woman, but what Shinichi would need is more the Wester woman, which Yukiko is and what Haibara is. Haibara has an extra trick up her sleeve which is intelligence. In other words the ability to have a conversation on par with Shinichi, and they would be meaningful, not idle banter as they would be with Ran.

Ran and Shinichi may be meant for each other in Gosho's eyes, but they are not ideal for each other. Haibara/Shiho on the other hand is not meant for Shinichi in Gosho's eyes, but they are ideal for each other. Perhaps that was his goal for when he introduced her into the series to make a topic for fans to discuss and debate over. A lot of writers have done that, including Rowling in the creation of Neville Longbottom's character in Harry Potter, because both he and Potter fulfilled the conditions for the prophecy.

[Kiel95 86]

Nope. It is definitely there. Ran and Shinichi never worked in my eyes... They are too different. If they get married I have a sneaking suspicion that they'll end up like Eri and Kogorou. Yuusaku and Yukiko are pretty different except for one vital thing, they are both eccentric as hell, which means they are both somewhat crazy and thus work well together. Ran is far too reserved and conservative. Gosho made her into the typical Japanese woman, but what Shinichi would need is more the Wester woman, which Yukiko is and what Haibara is. Haibara has an extra trick up her sleeve which is intelligence. In other words the ability to have a conversation on par with Shinichi, and they would be meaningful, not idle banter as they would be with Ran.

Ran and Shinichi may be meant for each other in Gosho's eyes, but they are not ideal for each other. Haibara/Shiho on the other hand is not meant for Shinichi in Gosho's eyes, but they are ideal for each other. Perhaps that was his goal for when he introduced her into the series to make a topic for fans to discuss and debate over. A lot of writers have done that, including Rowling in the creation of Neville Longbottom's character in Harry Potter, because both he and Potter fulfilled the conditions for the prophecy.

i've decided... i love you you know how to put what i want to say into words that i cant xD yaaay <3 i love you Kyuu~chan <3

[Amaranth 52]

This is one of the hottest debate topics. Lol. No, I'm serious!

[Patronus Charm 53]

idk... Shiho and Shinichi look good together...

i haven't really thought about ShinRan looking good together...

but i'm ShinRan... and i might go for ShinShi...(nearly)

[Kiel95 86]

idk... Shiho and Shinichi look good together...

i haven't really thought about ShinRan looking good together...

but i'm ShinRan... and i might go for ShinShi...(nearly)

coooonveeeeert <3 you know you want too

[Aeyra 260]

coooonveeeeert <3 you know you want too

Don't! The Dark side is lying about having cookies!!!!!!!!!!

[Sayomi 17]

Well have you ever seen this much love in any other relationship, like, ever? What kind of 17 year olds would be so devoted to each other? I mean, it's possible but a lot of teenagers are pretty volatile with their love lives and don't exactly settle on one person for... forever. Someone as talented and beautiful and kind as Ran could get any kind of guy she wants, but she's got her heart set on the deduction maniac who disappeared and makes her cry all the time. Ran is so faithful and cares about Shinichi so much, and Shinichi returns those feelings right back. He has a bunch of fangirls around Japan, but he doesn't even care about them and only thinks about his childhood friend who beats him up all the time with her awesome karate xDDD The love they have for each other is just so... KYAA XD (I don't even have an adjective to describe how cute their relationship is :3)

[Kiel95 86]

Don't! The Dark side is lying about having cookies!!!!!!!!!!

woahwoahwoah!!! when did we say we have cookies?!?

we have sushi, and cake, and chinese food... yum :3 oh and lastly... we. have. CHOCOLATE!!!!

[Kyuu Nye 425]

woahwoahwoah!!! when did we say we have cookies?!?

we have sushi, and cake, and chinese food... yum :3 oh and lastly... we. have. CHOCOLATE!!!!

[insert mandatory "the cake is a lie" joke here]

Also @sayomi: The problem is that they are still teenagers. Honestly... Also the fact that they fight constantly, and actually do have a pretty volatile relationship is pretty evident of their incompatibility. I stated previously that Gosho purposefully made her into the typical Japanese woman. That is not a good match up for Shinichi.

[Kiel95 86]

[insert mandatory "the cake is a lie" joke here]

Also @sayomi: The problem is that they are still teenagers. Honestly... Also the fact that they fight constantly, and actually do have a pretty volatile relationship is pretty evident of their incompatibility. I stated previously that Gosho purposefully made her into the typical Japanese woman. That is not a good match up for Shinichi.

the more i read your comments, the more i love you <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

[insert mandatory "the cake is a lie" joke here]

Also @sayomi: The problem is that they are still teenagers. Honestly... Also the fact that they fight constantly, and actually do have a pretty volatile relationship is pretty evident of their incompatibility. I stated previously that Gosho purposefully made her into the typical Japanese woman. That is not a good match up for Shinichi.

To be fair to Ran here, it's not all happy in the Ai camp either. Both lie to each other and neither trusts the other. It really stands out when you read several plot related chapters in a row. Haibara pitches a fit pretty much every time Conan goes out to stop the Org from doing bad things, and Conan tries to hide what he has learned or ditch Haibara (or lock her in Agasa's basement) whenever he gets a lead. At least Ran trusts Shinichi, even if he doesn't give her that benefit.

Conan hiding stuff - list not complete

33-8 hiding news of stolen files – Haibara says that kind of behavior is “strangling” her and Ran.

Not telling Haibara about info Agasa learned about Vermouth on web page.

Not telling her about Itakura’s diary.

Knocks Haibara out with wrsitwatch and locks her in Agasa's basement before confrontation with Vermouth

582 Conan not wanting her to come investigate Eisuke Hondou’s father. Tells her to stay in the car.

Not telling Ai about finding Kir. 48-10

Not telling her about Bourbon or scar Akai

Not telling her about Akai living next door (for a good reason though because of the Akemi incident)

Ai hiding stuff - list not complete

Lots and lots of black org related stuff obviously. – purpose of APTX and other things like that.

The true name of the org: multiple times she has said “the people you call the men in black” as in the scene where she pretends to shoot Conan. This implies she knows another name for them.

Another BO presence at the Haido city hotel until after the fact. (Vermouth)

Haibara saved the floppy from the Haido City Hotel and doesn’t tell Conan about it. You can see a bloody disk in the stack during the events of desperate revival. (25.9/251 pg8 and ep188)

Age of project. (189)

There is room for feelings between Conan and Ai if some things change. The most obvious way to change Haibara’s character. First, to gain Conan’s trust that she won’t attempt a sacrifice routine if she encounters a difficult org situation, Haibara needs to be stronger in the face of her enemies i.e. not want to avoid all situations with them. Also, while she has been trending in this direction, Haibara needs to not dress up her actions driven by her sense of righteousness with claimed motivations like getting APTX, or keeping her cover safe. On the opposite side, Conan could change to appreciate more that Haibara's time in the Org had forced her to be closed, cold, untrusting, and paranoid, and also that Haibara frequently doesn’t often say what she really means or thinks. He could also try to be more trusting of her, and try to keep her abreast of his thoughts and the current situation, even if it means Haibara worries.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

To be fair to Ran here, it's not all happy in the Ai camp either. Both lie to each other and neither trusts the other. It really stands out when you read several plot related chapters in a row. Haibara pitches a fit pretty much every time Conan goes out to stop the Org from doing bad things, and Conan tries to hide what he has learned or ditch Haibara (or lock her in Agasa's basement) whenever he gets a lead. At least Ran trusts Shinichi, even if he doesn't give her that benefit.

Conan hiding stuff - list not complete

33-8 hiding news of stolen files – Haibara says that kind of behavior is “strangling” her and Ran.

Not telling Haibara about info Agasa learned about Vermouth on web page.

Not telling her about Itakura’s diary.

Knocks Haibara out with wrsitwatch and locks her in Agasa's basement before confrontation with Vermouth

582 Conan not wanting her to come investigate Eisuke Hondou’s father. Tells her to stay in the car.

Not telling Ai about finding Kir. 48-10

Not telling her about Bourbon or scar Akai

Not telling her about Akai living next door (for a good reason though because of the Akemi incident)

Ai hiding stuff - list not complete

Lots and lots of black org related stuff obviously. – purpose of APTX and other things like that.

The true name of the org: multiple times she has said “the people you call the men in black” as in the scene where she pretends to shoot Conan. This implies she knows another name for them.

Another BO presence at the Haido city hotel until after the fact. (Vermouth)

Haibara saved the floppy from the Haido City Hotel and doesn’t tell Conan about it. You can see a bloody disk in the stack during the events of desperate revival. (25.9/251 pg8 and ep188)

Age of project. (189)

There is room for feelings between Conan and Ai if some things change. The most obvious way to change Haibara’s character. First, to gain Conan’s trust that she won’t attempt a sacrifice routine if she encounters a difficult org situation, Haibara needs to be stronger in the face of her enemies i.e. not want to avoid all situations with them. Also, while she has been trending in this direction, Haibara needs to not dress up her actions driven by her sense of righteousness with claimed motivations like getting APTX, or keeping her cover safe. On the opposite side, Conan could change to appreciate more that Haibara's time in the Org had forced her to be closed, cold, untrusting, and paranoid, and also that Haibara frequently doesn’t often say what she really means or thinks. He could also try to be more trusting of her, and try to keep her abreast of his thoughts and the current situation, even if it means Haibara worries.

That may be all well and good... But you are missing an important point... They may be telling lies to each other, and keeping secrets... BUT! As it is right now... Conan/Shinichi is living a lie with Ran. Ran may trust him now, but how long will that trust last if she ever finds out about Conan being Shinichi? And clearly Shinichi doesn't trust Ran with the truth. Whether or not it will protect her is unknown, because if the BO is as ruthless as they are made out to be, the mere fact that Conan/Shinichi is living with them means that they'll probably go after them anyway. Perhaps its because she might go to the police, but then that would be not telling her because he doesn't trust her. So we are back at square one...

[Ranger 11]

As much as I love to invoke anger into ShinRan fans, I'll try to be..less volatile. There is definitely trust issues on both sides, Ai and Conan are both keeping pivotal secrets from each other (more so Ai with plot-related B.O. stuff..which will eventually unravel), and of course the premise of the series, Shinichi and Ran, with Shinichi "living a lie".

However, can you really name any shared interests between Ran and Shinichi? While you can argue that opposites attract in this case, the only thing that Ran and Shinichi have is the childhood friend bond.

You have to be quite stubborn to ignore the fact that Ai and Conan share similar tastes, traits, experiences (the whole "I'm a kid" shtick), and somewhat even-level intelligence.

I'm an AiConan fan, but I'm a reasonable one: the point of the entire show, is for Conan to become Shinichi again, and to reunite with Ran. You have to be a stubborn, cloud-minded person to not realize that this will happen. It's going to happen. The only way for an AiConan ending to even possibly come into fruition is some sort of OVA alternate ending that Gosho might make to squeeze out some more bucks, and even so, it probably won't be canon.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

That may be all well and good... But you are missing an important point... They may be telling lies to each other, and keeping secrets... BUT! As it is right now... Conan/Shinichi is living a lie with Ran.

It's a more serious lie, but it's one done for reasons Shinichi thinks is good - he thinks Ran is going to jump in and get herself killed. He really has no reason to lie to Haibara because she knows the situation, and neither she to him. They basically don't cooperate against the BO when they could be stronger together. That's worse.

Ran may trust him now, but how long will that trust last if she ever finds out about Conan being Shinichi?

Given her faith in Shinichi so far she will manage.

And clearly Shinichi doesn't trust Ran with the truth. Whether or not it will protect her is unknown, because if the BO is as ruthless as they are made out to be, the mere fact that Conan/Shinichi is living with them means that they'll probably go after them anyway. Perhaps its because she might go to the police, but then that would be not telling her because he doesn't trust her. So we are back at square one...

I said as much in the original post, but one sided mistrust is better than mutual mistrust.

However, can you really name any shared interests between Ran and Shinichi?

Sports and they like many of the same people. They also have a similar set of ideals (justice, determination, and all).

Haibara and Conan don't share many interests either if you think about.

While you can argue that opposites attract in this case, the only thing that Ran and Shinichi have is the childhood friend bond.

She trusts him and they both have a similar set of values which is important for any long term relationship.

You have to be quite stubborn to ignore the fact that Ai and Conan share similar tastes, traits, experiences (the whole "I'm a kid" shtick), and somewhat even-level intelligence.

Experience and intelligence yes, but tastes and traits no.

[Akazora 293]

The more and more I read all the arguments for AiCon, I get more and more scared.

As a devoted ShinRan, I'm sticking to my guns until I die.

I respect all the AiCons and their arguments, but I really can not accept Shinichi running off with Shiho.

As people have mentioned before, Shinichi and Ran were just meant to be. Can Shinichi eventually fall in love with Shiho if given enough time? Well, of course, anyone can theoretically fall in love with anyone. But Shinichi and Ran share something more than just love. It's hard to explain, but sort of think of it this way. Shinichi and Shiho can only share a relationship similar to that of two fitting Lego pieces. Shinichi and Ran on the other hand share a relationship similar to that of two fitting magnetic Lego pieces bonded with super glue.

The connection of the Lego pieces represents love.

The magnetic force and super glue is that small little something special that holds it together.

Just my view point on things.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

It's a more serious lie, but it's one done for reasons Shinichi thinks is good - he thinks Ran is going to jump in and get herself killed. He really has no reason to lie to Haibara because she knows the situation, and neither she to him. They basically don't cooperate against the BO when they could be stronger together. That's worse.

Given her faith in Shinichi so far she will manage.

I said as much in the original post, but one sided mistrust is better than mutual mistrust.

Haibara and Conan don't share many interests either if you think about.

And she trusts him.

Experience and intelligence yes, but tastes and traits no.

And you don't think creating a drug that was supposed to kill is good enough reason for Conan to not trust Ai? Or being previously part of a huge crime syndicate and not knowing how loyal she may be to them still? Honestly, they have more reason to be distrustful of each other than Shinichi has to be distrustful towards Ran.

The distrust they have between each other is founded on each other's past. Likely Ai feels that if she tells Shinichi anything he will either get himself killed or many more people killed by using it to attack the BO. Go back to the whole Pandora's box reference she made before to the Boss's mail box or phone number or whatever that is... Her knowledge of the Org is the same, Pandora's box that shouldn't be opened (or so she probably thinks). We are also assuming that she knows more than she may actually know. We don't know exactly what she knows or how high her clearance was in the org. She may only know about things within the science division.

Shinichi it is a simple matter of Ai being PART OF THE ORGANIZATION THAT TRIED TO KILL HIM. And has killed many others. Not only that, but she was brought up within the org, so he has no idea how warped her mind is. For all he knows she could be biding her time until she can turn him in and reclaim her place in the org by taking down the FBI and their greatest threat at the same time.

On the other hand... Shinichi has NO reason to be distrustful of Ran. He could say that he did it to protect her, but again, based on everything he has seen and done with the FBI against the BO, he should have realized by now that it likely wouldn't do much good. Especially since she has already nearly gotten herself KILLED by the BO without knowing anything. He should know that it is likely that she would get involved even if she doesn't know anything. The first time she was lucky that it was Vermouth as the adversary, but if the next time she runs out to help Conan or Ai, she could be faced with Gin who will kill her on the spot. He is not protecting her from the BO, just making her charge in blind. He is, at this point, merely justifying his lies to her. And I suspect if she finds out, she will feel the exact same way.

As for interests, their interests are different but their goals are the same. In other words, scientists attempt to understand the world through experimentation, and detectives try to find the truth. Basically both are doing the same thing in their own right. On top of that, Shinichi would probably like Shiho to teach him more about science so that he could become more like his hero Sherlock Holmes. Granted, neither Shiho nor Ran share many overlapping interests with that detective maniac that is Shinichi. If you want that compatibility, he might be better off marrying his father's library and be done with it, since that is the only thing we have seen in the series that shares all of his interests. And traits...? Really Shiho's traits were built for her by the BO. She might be able to change that. As for tastes... Have we really seen what Shiho's tastes are? We don't know much about her childhood. Gosho isn't anywhere NEAR done developing Haibara. Where as Ran was done developing from the start.

@Holmes: What you feel is the same thing that Gosho made you feel. Which is why, I know that Shinichi and Ran will be together in the end. Gosho has made that abundantly clear. I just feel that Shiho is more suited to Shinichi.