Who's better off with Shinichi? Haibara Ai or Ran??

[IHKF 23]

Okay, so can you tell me what Ayumi and Conan have in common? Hardly anything. Ran understands Shinichi very well my friend. There have been many instances to that throughout the manga and anime series. Shinichi and Ran care about each other, they LIKE each other! No matter what we talk here, Gosho has made them a couple, whether they are compatible or on, similarities or no, and I have no objection to that. Haibara has shown many a times that she might have a crush on Shinichi, but she wouldn't want things to move forward. She knows very well that Ran and Shinichi like each other and that she can't do anything about it. Shinichi respects her as a good friend, so he wouldn't be thinking of settling with her. Even if they do, they are two mature individuals and will find many topics to talk about, other than Holmes and Scientific stuff. But anyway, Haibara doesn't want to come in-between Shinichi and Ran, so, we can just leave her for now. Ayumi- she likes Conan, Haibara knows that and has hinted it to Conan numerous times. So far, Conan hasn't shown any sort of attraction towards her because he already has Ran in his head. If Ran dies in the end, then I don't think he'll be able to get over it because in the series, he is always clear that Ran's life is more important than his. If that ever happens, then he might stay single or be with Haibara or Ayumi. But, Haibara is a more likely option. Gosho has promised us a happy ending, so I doubt that Shinichi or Ran will die. AyumiXConan is not a bad couple, it's just that Conan doesn't seem to have any sort of feelings for her yet. So, we can't argue about them being a couple until he shows some positive signs. I wouldn't stop you from day-dreaming about them being together, but don't keep your hopes too high because Gosho has decided that Shinichi will be with Ran, whether you like it or not, whether they have similarities or not. Shinichi likes Ran's nature and so he likes her, he thinks she is the ideal woman. That's how his character is, we can't help it.

Same here...

Ayumi and Conan both are into soccer.

They have the same morals.

They want to be detectives.

They both do what they can to protect their loved ones and even strangers.

They both want a spotlight.

They both are observant.

Ayumi is seemingly an only child just as Conan is.

There. And those are just the ones I can think of at the moment.

What does she understand? That he likes to be a detective? His habits? She doesn't get his thought process, she just knows the outcomes. She just knows shallow things. If she knew him more then she would be able to come to a logical conclusion as to why he may be away on a "case" and why it's taking him so long. If you love somebody you usually know what they're thinking. Once again, it's one of those things where they grew up together, everybody expects for them to be together, and then years later at reunion they broke up and are married with different people as their husband/wife. Gosho is a master as surprise, remember. He can easily switch the story around and end it with somebody else. Haibara has never shown that she has a crush on him. It is assumed and interpreted that way by AiCon fans. I can see why they think that but there are easily other explanations as to her behavior and thoughts. Haibara, to me, only considers him to be a friend- somebody that she can rely on for once in her life. They probably wouldn't care to talk about anything besides the DB. They don't have much in common at all. The most I can see them talking about is arguing over their soccer teams. Yes, Conan has shown attraction to her. It just goes unnoticed because everybody is always arguing "AICON!" or "SHINRAN!" so they don't care to think about the third party that is most definitely a suitable option. He has grabbed her hand, grabbed her shoulders, called her name WITHOUT AN HONORIFIC, begged for her to be okay, and overreacted by slamming a helmet hard into a guy's head. Usually Conan would be able to logically find his way to a conclusion while somebody is in danger. but he was so worried about Ayumi in episode 12... well he didn't really think about anything besides saving her. So yes. He has shown attraction. Conan would probably eventually get over Ran's death. There are plenty of widows who have started dating before- people who were married for 3 years or so. He could get over it in time. And by that time Ayumi would be grown up and ready for a committed relationship. I doubt Haibara as a likely option with her relationship with Mitsuhiko going on as well. Okay, so a happy ending means the option of Shinichi and Conan separating would be open and probably the best choice. As I just said above, Conan has shown feelings for her- everybody was too preoccupied with the other couples to notice. I doubt Gosho will just set Ayumi up for destruction. A happy ending means that the nobody will be left heartbroken. Which includes Ayumi-chan. It is not "whether I like it or not" because he has not ended it yet. You can't say that just yet. And I once again say "REUNION!!!!!! THEORY!!!!!" XD

[detective-db 16]

First of all... I wonder y i can't vote...

- I think it's Ran because they are childhood friends and childhood friends mostly end up as partners... (just like Heiji and Kazuha) Also, I think that Haibara has her own partner...

[Charala97 23]

Ayumi and Conan both are into soccer.

They have the same morals.

They want to be detectives.

They both do what they can to protect their loved ones and even strangers.

They both want a spotlight.

They both are observant.

Ayumi is seemingly an only child just as Conan is.

There. And those are just the ones I can think of at the moment.

What does she understand? That he likes to be a detective? His habits? She doesn't get his thought process, she just knows the outcomes. She just knows shallow things. If she knew him more then she would be able to come to a logical conclusion as to why he may be away on a "case" and why it's taking him so long. If you love somebody you usually know what they're thinking. Once again, it's one of those things where they grew up together, everybody expects for them to be together, and then years later at reunion they broke up and are married with different people as their husband/wife. Gosho is a master as surprise, remember. He can easily switch the story around and end it with somebody else. Haibara has never shown that she has a crush on him. It is assumed and interpreted that way by AiCon fans. I can see why they think that but there are easily other explanations as to her behavior and thoughts. Haibara, to me, only considers him to be a friend- somebody that she can rely on for once in her life. They probably wouldn't care to talk about anything besides the DB. They don't have much in common at all. The most I can see them talking about is arguing over their soccer teams. Yes, Conan has shown attraction to her. It just goes unnoticed because everybody is always arguing "AICON!" or "SHINRAN!" so they don't care to think about the third party that is most definitely a suitable option. He has grabbed her hand, grabbed her shoulders, called her name WITHOUT AN HONORIFIC, begged for her to be okay, and overreacted by slamming a helmet hard into a guy's head. Usually Conan would be able to logically find his way to a conclusion while somebody is in danger. but he was so worried about Ayumi in episode 12... well he didn't really think about anything besides saving her. So yes. He has shown attraction. Conan would probably eventually get over Ran's death. There are plenty of widows who have started dating before- people who were married for 3 years or so. He could get over it in time. And by that time Ayumi would be grown up and ready for a committed relationship. I doubt Haibara as a likely option with her relationship with Mitsuhiko going on as well. Okay, so a happy ending means the option of Shinichi and Conan separating would be open and probably the best choice. As I just said above, Conan has shown feelings for her- everybody was too preoccupied with the other couples to notice. I doubt Gosho will just set Ayumi up for destruction. A happy ending means that the nobody will be left heartbroken. Which includes Ayumi-chan. It is not "whether I like it or not" because he has not ended it yet. You can't say that just yet. And I once again say "REUNION!!!!!! THEORY!!!!!" XD

Okay Ayumi wants to be a detective.... so? She doesn't understand what Conan's thinking either! Just because they have a similarities, it doesn't mean that she can understand his thinking process completely! And, Ran understands his emotions way better than Ayumi. She knows when he's in trouble, when he's in deep thought. The chemistry between Shinichi and Ran is more deep, more known. Whereas, Ayumi and Conan were never a pair. They have never been potrayed as a couple. Ayumi has feelings for him, but so far he doesn't. I know Gosho can throw tricks, but that is during a case. Since the very beginning, Shinichi and Ran have been together, so I don't think he'll do such a trick that will get them paired with someone else. The chances of that happening are too small.

You say that Haibara might not have feelings for Conan and it is just made my the AiCon fans, agreed, but she does throw hints at times. I am not an AiCon fan so I don't know much about that pairing. I be happier to see her with Mitsuhiko.

Grabbing someone's shoulder, worrying about someone's safety ,calling someone without an Honorific are not signs of attraction according to me. I'd rather take it as a brotherly feeeling towards her. I have always thought that Conan respects Ayumi and Haibara as his sisters. You claim that the 3rd party is more suitable? Well, I don't agree. Ran dying might change his mind, but I still don't feel great about Ayumi being with Conan just like how you can't imagine Haibara or Ran with Conan. Separating Conan and Shinichi as two different people is not very REALISTIC but very CREATIVE. So far, DC has been very realistic, I don't think Gosho would make a climax so contrasting as to make in unreal. This is my opinion. Ayumi is just a little girl, who Conan cares about..... but he is not ATTRACTED to her so far. So, I think it'll be best if you stick to your opinions and I'll stick to mine. I'll stick to ShinRan and you can go on with Ayumi and Conan. But, let me tell you one think, the chances seem to be very dim. I'm not against them, I just don't seem to understand how it's gonna happen. Anyway, this thread is about Ran or Haibara...... so I think we should get back to them.

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

Haha Shinichi is going to end up with Ran.

Unless Ran dies. Which isn't possible. BUT I do have to agree that Ayumi is best ending up with Conan :V

Why?

It is not that I think Conan will end up with Ayumi, or Ran will not end up with Shinichi. I just feel that this is the best outcome. Ran should just find someone else that wouldn't make her cry all the time. I don't know why, but I find Ayumi much more brave and courageous than Ran. She would grow up into a much more loveable and mature and confident girl than Ran is. Shinichi doesn't really have a proper childhood like haibara. That's why I will fully support him growing up again with Ayumi and learn and fix all the problems with his personality. Just like how I would want for haibara to grow up again with my mitsu chan. If Haibara ended up with Conan and with their personalities, I'm afraid they might raise a twisted child if ever they have any... Family warmth is so important...

But best is still different from want. I dunno, just that the shinran scenes had moved my heart quite a number of times and so I support ShinRan.

[IHKF 23]

Okay Ayumi wants to be a detective.... so? She doesn't understand what Conan's thinking either! Just because they have a similarities, it doesn't mean that she can understand his thinking process completely! And, Ran understands his emotions way better than Ayumi. She knows when he's in trouble, when he's in deep thought. The chemistry between Shinichi and Ran is more deep, more known. Whereas, Ayumi and Conan were never a pair. They have never been potrayed as a couple. Ayumi has feelings for him, but so far he doesn't. I know Gosho can throw tricks, but that is during a case. Since the very beginning, Shinichi and Ran have been together, so I don't think he'll do such a trick that will get them paired with someone else. The chances of that happening are too small.

You say that Haibara might not have feelings for Conan and it is just made my the AiCon fans, agreed, but she does throw hints at times. I am not an AiCon fan so I don't know much about that pairing. I be happier to see her with Mitsuhiko.

Grabbing someone's shoulder, worrying about someone's safety ,calling someone without an Honorific are not signs of attraction according to me. I'd rather take it as a brotherly feeeling towards her. I have always thought that Conan respects Ayumi and Haibara as his sisters. You claim that the 3rd party is more suitable? Well, I don't agree. Ran dying might change his mind, but I still don't feel great about Ayumi being with Conan just like how you can't imagine Haibara or Ran with Conan. Separating Conan and Shinichi as two different people is not very REALISTIC but very CREATIVE. So far, DC has been very realistic, I don't think Gosho would make a climax so contrasting as to make in unreal. This is my opinion. Ayumi is just a little girl, who Conan cares about..... but he is not ATTRACTED to her so far. So, I think it'll be best if you stick to your opinions and I'll stick to mine. I'll stick to ShinRan and you can go on with Ayumi and Conan. But, let me tell you one think, the chances seem to be very dim. I'm not against them, I just don't seem to understand how it's gonna happen. Anyway, this thread is about Ran or Haibara...... so I think we should get back to them.

She can understand better than Ran can. XD She can see things from his point of view that Ran can't. She understands why he likes being a detective. She knows the feeling. Ran doesn't. I don't think Ran understands one thing about him. ^^' All she really understands is that Shinichi wants to be a detective and that solving cases means a lot to him. That's as far as those thoughts go. Chemistry? What chemistry? XD

And we cannot determine that Conan doesn't have feelings for her. You cannot say that he does not have feelings for her. He has showed many signs. Look. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T9mZOOy1NI

So no, we can't say he doesn't like her just off the bat. Unless he openly says to Ayumi's face "No, I do not like you" then that cannot be said. XD

The chances are not small. Once again, Gosho is a master of surprise. It's not very uncommon for the couple everybody expects to be together in an anime to not end up together in the end. (I've seen people complain and whine and throw their arms everywhere several times about an anime while reading comments on mixed anime AMV's.)

They really are signs of attention- and calling to somebody by their first name without an honorific in Japan means that the person is very VERY close to you. It should NOT be taken lightly.... and yes. You'd RATHER take it as brotherly feelings because you don't like the couple. XD It's natural, though.

... Dude. He chased after a man in a black suit after just solving a murder that took place on a RIDE in an AMUSEMENT PARK and he was fed a drug- not killed instantly- FED A DRUG and was TURNED INTO A KID. Separating them, while unrealistic, is very likely.

I think that Conan does have romantic feelings towards her. Look at it from Gosho's perspective. If she didn't have a chance then why in the world would he continue to place these moments in there for them?

The chances are not very dim- at all. Separating Shinichi and Conan is the only way to REALLY give everybody a happy ending- and you know how Gosho loves his happy endings.

[AJ M. 204]

@IHKF Wow, you are certainly tenacious when it comes to defending AyuCon. Everywhere I go, you are either bashing on Ran (Haibara even) or stating your case behind the slightest possibility that Conan and Ayumi will be together in the end. It just makes me wonder: do you ever get tired of repeating the same thing over and over again, even though the majority of the DC population thinks otherwise?

Just curious.

[IHKF 23]

@IHKF Wow, you are certainly tenacious when it comes to defending AyuCon. Everywhere I go, you are either bashing on Ran (Haibara even) or stating your case behind the slightest possibility that Conan and Ayumi will be together in the end. It just makes me wonder: do you ever get tired of repeating the same thing over and over again, even though the majority of the DC population thinks otherwise?

Just curious.

I don't bash. If I were bashing...

Then I'd be saying things like "She's stupid. She's ugly. Oh she's a *Bleep*". XD (Look at people bash Kagome and/or Kikyo from Inuyasha sometime. THAT is BASHING. XD) I'm stating flaws in their character and as to why they really shouldn't have as big a fan-base as they do.

Yes. I do get tired of it. Because people don't understand. They don't really see what I'm saying although I try and explain it the best I can, so yes. It does get annoying. I don't know whether or not I'm just not explaining it well enough or what. I've said it many different ways so it's not like I'm saying the EXACT same thing over and over again. :???:

And I'm not the only person to speak like this anyways. Nobody bats an eyelash if it's somebody talking like that about a minor character but when somebody speaks like I am about a protagonist have mercy on their soul. LOL xD

Look, from where I'm standing, every couple has pros and cons and to me, AyuCon has more pros.

I'm pointing out flaws that nobody really notices that don't apply to AyuCon- thus stating an argument for it. XD

I don't mean to sound harsh- and I'm trying to get better at it. That's what counts, right?

[Kyuu Nye 425]

I don't bash. If I were bashing...

Then I'd be saying things like "She's stupid. She's ugly. Oh she's a *Bleep*". XD (Look at people bash Kagome and/or Kikyo from Inuyasha sometime. THAT is BASHING. XD) I'm stating flaws in their character and as to why they really shouldn't have as big a fan-base as they do.

Yes. I do get tired of it. Because people don't understand. They don't really see what I'm saying although I try and explain it the best I can, so yes. It does get annoying. I don't know whether or not I'm just not explaining it well enough or what. I've said it many different ways so it's not like I'm saying the EXACT same thing over and over again. :???:

And I'm not the only person to speak like this anyways. Nobody bats an eyelash if it's somebody talking like that about a minor character but when somebody speaks like I am about a protagonist have mercy on their soul. LOL xD

Look, from where I'm standing, every couple has pros and cons and to me, AyuCon has more pros.

I'm pointing out flaws that nobody really notices that don't apply to AyuCon- thus stating an argument for it. XD

I don't mean to sound harsh- and I'm trying to get better at it. That's what counts, right?

The fact that they have flaws is WHY they have a big fanbase. Perfect characters are boring and 2-dimensional. I think, despite her flaws, Ran is still too much of a mary-sue type character and among other things, like lack of development, is the reason why I dislike her. I like Haibara because she actually has developed (but has ceased in recent chapters, but I hope that will change with more BO arcs and exposure). Yes, she has flaws, but that is what makes her interesting as a character.

No relationship is perfect, all relationships need work. And again things that are not perfect make a more interesting story. It also makes it more realistic.

Not to mention flaws make characters more identifiable, because lets face it, the world isn't perfect, nor are relationships nor are people. Perfect situations are generally unbelievable.

[IHKF 23]

The fact that they have flaws is WHY they have a big fanbase. Perfect characters are boring and 2-dimensional. I think, despite her flaws, Ran is still too much of a mary-sue type character and among other things, like lack of development, is the reason why I dislike her. I like Haibara because she actually has developed (but has ceased in recent chapters, but I hope that will change with more BO arcs and exposure). Yes, she has flaws, but that is what makes her interesting as a character.

No relationship is perfect, all relationships need work. And again things that are not perfect make a more interesting story. It also makes it more realistic.

Not to mention flaws make characters more identifiable, because lets face it, the world isn't perfect, nor are relationships nor are people. Perfect situations are generally unbelievable.

I'm sorry, I meant LACK of flaws. XD lol

Haibara has flaws- but not the kind that make you go "Hey she's really realistic". They're more like "Okay... that was silly. Don't do that. XD" kinds of flaws.

Ran yes, is more of a Mary-Sue character and I don't favor her very much at all. And as I've said before the stoic character and the over-exaggerated strength-wise girlfriend are both overused to the point where it shocks me they have much of a fan-base. XD

That's one of the reasons why I don't like them with Shinichi. It just feels like the author is pushing them together even though they don't fit. ^^'

Every relationship does have flaws- but when there are too many it just makes the relationship unrealistic and impossible. When you have a flaw or two with a couple that has a lot of positives on their side it makes the couple interesting! ^^

[Kyuu Nye 425]

I'm sorry, I meant LACK of flaws. XD lol

Haibara has flaws- but not the kind that make you go "Hey she's really realistic". They're more like "Okay... that was silly. Don't do that. XD" kinds of flaws.

Ran yes, is more of a Mary-Sue character and I don't favor her very much at all. And as I've said before the stoic character and the over-exaggerated strength-wise girlfriend are both overused to the point where it shocks me they have much of a fan-base. XD

That's one of the reasons why I don't like them with Shinichi. It just feels like the author is pushing them together even though they don't fit. ^^'

Every relationship does have flaws- but when there are too many it just makes the relationship unrealistic and impossible. When you have a flaw or two with a couple that has a lot of positives on their side it makes the couple interesting! ^^

Haibara has some of the most realistic flaws in the whole of DC. She is also possibly the most flawed character because of what she went through. Her cynicism, general mistrust of people (to the point where she won't tell people what she's planning), her dark history (which affects her in a negative way, especially since she is probably emotionally destroyed having her entire family killed by the BO (this is linked with my last listing as well)), her lack of a proper childhood, and lets not forget her locking away of almost all real emotion. The only thing that makes her not flawed is her intelligence. She doesn't have any great abilities physically, and her "BO sense" has been called into question several times. Her knowledge of the BO is linked with her criminal activities (oh yeah, that should also probably be counted as a flaw, she is technically a criminal).

And I also said that Ran was a cookie cutout character. Almost all of them are. Haibara is too, though she at least developed some for a while, but her character archetype is pretty well known and often used. Shinichi, Mitsu, Genta, Ayumi, Sonoko... all are cookie cutout characters. Chek even noted that for Ayumi, and it is true. Gosho is using WELL ESTABLISHED character archetypes and not developing them. That has been my biggest contention with this series for a long time.

[IHKF 23]

Haibara has some of the most realistic flaws in the whole of DC. She is also possibly the most flawed character because of what she went through. Her cynicism, general mistrust of people (to the point where she won't tell people what she's planning), her dark history (which affects her in a negative way, especially since she is probably emotionally destroyed having her entire family killed by the BO (this is linked with my last listing as well)), her lack of a proper childhood, and lets not forget her locking away of almost all real emotion. The only thing that makes her not flawed is her intelligence. She doesn't have any great abilities physically, and her "BO sense" has been called into question several times. Her knowledge of the BO is linked with her criminal activities (oh yeah, that should also probably be counted as a flaw, she is technically a criminal).

And I also said that Ran was a cookie cutout character. Almost all of them are. Haibara is too, though she at least developed some for a while, but her character archetype is pretty well known and often used. Shinichi, Mitsu, Genta, Ayumi, Sonoko... all are cookie cutout characters. Chek even noted that for Ayumi, and it is true. Gosho is using WELL ESTABLISHED character archetypes and not developing them. That has been my biggest contention with this series for a long time.

Yes, the not trusting people is the "That was silly, don't do that XD" flaw I was referring too. XD Her dark past does not count as a flaw- we all have things we regret doing and she was forced. And locking away emotions is what makes a stoic character- which is not really all that realistic. XD

She was forced into doing what she did and did not do it of her own accord- which is what would make it a flaw. "It's always the quiet ones"- Slade from Teen Titans to Raven when she revealed her secret dark past. Raven was the stoic character. XD The fact that she had a dark past makes her even closer to what she is titled.

Some characters are less cut-outs than others. If Ayumi was exactly what she was a "cut out" of then she would have an older brother whom she calls "Nee Nee" and she follows around all of the time, she would be easier to entertain and she would make sex jokes even though she doesn't mean to. XD Kazuha would live right next door to Heiji and have a special promise that they made in some special place. Genta... no. No. He's a cut-out character. He definitely is. XD Just a less common one.

Mitsuhiko would wear glasses, be easily irritated, have his nose in a book way more often than he does, he would also be less than interested in girls. Heiji would constantly be challenging Shinichi to a deduction match and not work with him, he would also be guessing cup sizes and hitting on the ladies. LOL

So not everybody is a picture perfect cut out. Haibara and Ran are probably the closest to cut-outs there are except for Shinichi and Sonoko. XD Funny how the minor characters are closer to being realistic than the main ones...

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Yes, the not trusting people is the "That was silly, don't do that XD" flaw I was referring too. XD Her dark past does not count as a flaw- we all have things we regret doing and she was forced. And locking away emotions is what makes a stoic character- which is not really all that realistic. XD

She was forced into doing what she did and did not do it of her own accord- which is what would make it a flaw. "It's always the quiet ones"- Slade from Teen Titans to Raven when she revealed her secret dark past. Raven was the stoic character. XD The fact that she had a dark past makes her even closer to what she is titled.

Some characters are less cut-outs than others. If Ayumi was exactly what she was a "cut out" of then she would have an older brother whom she calls "Nee Nee" and she follows around all of the time, she would be easier to entertain and she would make sex jokes even though she doesn't mean to. XD Kazuha would live right next door to Heiji and have a special promise that they made in some special place. Genta... no. No. He's a cut-out character. He definitely is. XD Just a less common one.

Mitsuhiko would wear glasses, be easily irritated, have his nose in a book way more often than he does, he would also be less than interested in girls. Heiji would constantly be challenging Shinichi to a deduction match and not work with him, he would also be guessing cup sizes and hitting on the ladies. LOL

So not everybody is a picture perfect cut out. Haibara and Ran are probably the closest to cut-outs there are except for Shinichi and Sonoko. XD Funny how the minor characters are closer to being realistic than the main ones...

This is a pointless debate... Just wondering... How is not trusting people "That's silly, don't do that" flaw? I'm sorry, but I don't think you've ever been stabbed in the back. Her past has given her no reason to trust anyone at any point. And there are *plenty* of people whom have locked away their emotions for one reason or another, and it is usually trauma... You know like being forced to make a drug to murder, and finding out that your entire family is gone most likely due to murder. (Ok, I haven't known anyone with that exact situation, but one of my oldest friend's parents met an untimely end in a traffic accident. I saw him after I graduated HS (he moved away to live with his god parents). He locked away almost all emotion, his godparents told me that he may never have real emotions again because facing the pain of losing his parents like that might send him over the edge.) So it isn't stoicism, and there are plenty of cases like that.

I'm not going into the rest. It was a mistake coming into this thread again. Think what you will. But 90% of the characters in DC are cookie-cutout characters, that includes the DBoys and the MPD. In fact I can't think of any character in DC, at this moment, that I haven't seen at least a few times elsewhere. It is why I hate DC. I've said this before, but the only reason I'm still here is the community and the hope that I will one day see the resolution of the BO (and a few of the mysteries).

[IHKF 23]

This is a pointless debate... Just wondering... How is not trusting people "That's silly, don't do that" flaw? I'm sorry, but I don't think you've ever been stabbed in the back. Her past has given her no reason to trust anyone at any point. And there are *plenty* of people whom have locked away their emotions for one reason or another, and it is usually trauma... You know like being forced to make a drug to murder, and finding out that your entire family is gone most likely due to murder. (Ok, I haven't known anyone with that exact situation, but one of my oldest friend's parents met an untimely end in a traffic accident. I saw him after I graduated HS (he moved away to live with his god parents). He locked away almost all emotion, his godparents told me that he may never have real emotions again because facing the pain of losing his parents like that might send him over the edge.) So it isn't stoicism, and there are plenty of cases like that.

I'm not going into the rest. It was a mistake coming into this thread again. Think what you will. But 90% of the characters in DC are cookie-cutout characters, that includes the DBoys and the MPD. In fact I can't think of any character in DC, at this moment, that I haven't seen at least a few times elsewhere. It is why I hate DC. I've said this before, but the only reason I'm still here is the community and the hope that I will one day see the resolution of the BO (and a few of the mysteries).

No debate is ever pointless unless it goes nowhere.

It's a flaw that could easily be fixed- one major even t could trigger that flaw to go away. It isn't a flaw that will always be with her- it will slowly disappear over time. The flaws I'm talking about flaws that a person can hide but can't change. A person who is irritable can work on that issue but they will always have it. Those kinds.

And those people ted to get help or start creeping down a dark path with drugs or alcohol. Most people won't just hide their feelings.

When you have somebody who hides their feelings and acts the way she does, then yes. That is a big part of stoicism. People recognize a stoic character MAINLY by their lack of emotion. A deep sadness and mystery of what they're feeling is the real pull of a stoic character.

Yes they are cut-outs but to a far lesser degree than what you're implying. XD The BO are also the stereotypical bad guys. (Dark colors, fangs, evil glares, guns, mystery of the boss... yeah.) DC is just not your kind of show then, is it? XD lol

I personally had fun debating (I like it to debate when it comes to anime, what? That's one of MY flaws. )with you but if this is how the debate ends so be it. :grin:

[Kyuu Nye 425]

DC is just not your kind of show then, is it?

Just quickly... If that is your definition of a pointless debate, then yes, this is a pointless debate, since neither side will make a concession or cede the point.

In regards to what I quoted... nope. I like development. The mysteries is what kept me going for so long and the overall community. I have thought about dropping DC several times in lieu of just sticking to literary mystery. But for now I'm still here.

[IHKF 23]

Well I meant that they just kept going in circles arguing the exact same point over and over again.

"Hot dogs are better!"

"No, Hamburgers!"

"Hot dogs!"

"Hamburgers!"

That kind. XD

Oh yes, development. I love development too. :grin: (More specifically character development.)

Which is why Ran annoys me more than Haibara. =w=

I hope you don't leave here even if you do drop DC! D:

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Well I meant that they just kept going in circles arguing the exact same point over and over again.

"Hot dogs are better!"

"No, Hamburgers!"

"Hot dogs!"

"Hamburgers!"

That kind. XD

Oh yes, development. I love development too. :grin: (More specifically character development.)

Which is why Ran annoys me more than Haibara. =w=

I hope you don't leave here even if you do drop DC! D:

That is an argument, not a debate.

[IHKF 23]

That is an argument, not a debate.

My point was saying the same thing over and over again (argument-wise) and getting no-where. Just going in circles. XD

[AJ M. 204]

I don't bash. If I were bashing...

Then I'd be saying things like "She's stupid. She's ugly. Oh she's a *Bleep*". XD (Look at people bash Kagome and/or Kikyo from Inuyasha sometime. THAT is BASHING. XD) I'm stating flaws in their character and as to why they really shouldn't have as big a fan-base as they do.

Yes. I do get tired of it. Because people don't understand. They don't really see what I'm saying although I try and explain it the best I can, so yes. It does get annoying. I don't know whether or not I'm just not explaining it well enough or what. I've said it many different ways so it's not like I'm saying the EXACT same thing over and over again. :???:

And I'm not the only person to speak like this anyways. Nobody bats an eyelash if it's somebody talking like that about a minor character but when somebody speaks like I am about a protagonist have mercy on their soul. LOL xD

Look, from where I'm standing, every couple has pros and cons and to me, AyuCon has more pros.

I'm pointing out flaws that nobody really notices that don't apply to AyuCon- thus stating an argument for it. XD

I don't mean to sound harsh- and I'm trying to get better at it. That's what counts, right?

It's not that people don't understand what you're saying; it's the fact that you have an opinion, and they have an opinion, so it's a matter of perception. I, for one, do not agree with most of your arguments about AyuCon, but that doesn't mean I didn't understand where you're coming from. I just wanted to inform that you have shed your light on DCW about your AyuCon preference several times enough, and you can't convince everyone no matter how much effort you put into it (especially since the subject is about pairings and is generally opinion-based). Though, I admire your tenacity.

Well, I think this discussion has been off-topic long enough. But someone should definitely make a "character development" thread because I have much to say about that. *cough* kyuu *cough*

In attempt to bring this discussion back OT, I would like to say, Ran, her horn, and her cookie-cutter characterization for the win!

[Parkur 165]

I have thought about dropping DC several times in lieu of just sticking to literary mystery. But for now I'm still here.

Just do what I do, drop the anime and manga but check back in on the rare occasion something good happens, works for me

[IHKF 23]

It's not that people don't understand what you're saying; it's the fact that you have an opinion, and they have an opinion, so it's a matter of perception. I, for one, do not agree with most of your arguments about AyuCon, but that doesn't mean I didn't understand where you're coming from. I just wanted to inform that you have shed your light on DCW about your AyuCon preference several times enough, and you can't convince everyone no matter how much effort you put into it (especially since the subject is about pairings and is generally opinion-based). Though, I admire your tenacity.

Well, I think this discussion has been off-topic long enough. But someone should definitely make a "character development" thread because I have much to say about that. *cough* kyuu *cough*

When you debate about anything you are debating to change another person's opinion. Obviously what I am saying is failing to do that. *Sighs*

I don't even want people to be AyuCon- I just want for it to be on the same level as AiCon- taken like that. That's why I still present my argument time and time again. Not to persuade people to be AyuCon, but to look at them as an equally opposing couple to whatever Conan or Haibara couple they support. *Shrugs*

That character development thread would become a personal favorite of mine- I'm sure.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Why must I always make the threads...? -sigh-

Fine... I'll get on it... But it will be bear bones starting off... I have scattered all my posts about character development all over DCW and DCTP... And I am not retyping all of that material. ><

[IHKF 23]

Why must I always make the threads...? -sigh-

Fine... I'll get on it... But it will be bear bones starting off... I have scattered all my posts about character development all over DCW and DCTP... And I am not retyping all of that material. ><

Good luck. XD

[detectiveRJB 15]

Ai is better Ran!

[Nathan Edogawa 0]

I don't think that Haibara/Shiho likes Shinichi.She just admires him because he's been protecting her n stuff.

Ran really loves Shinichi.

[IHKF 23]

I don't think that Haibara/Shiho likes Shinichi.She just admires him because he's been protecting her n stuff.

Ran really loves Shinichi.

I'd be inclined to disagree with that but I agree with what you said about Haibara.

I don't think Ran loves him. I think it's just a crush. They are only teenagers, first of all, second of all... oh I had my argument for this somewhere... now where did it go? XD