Who's better off with Shinichi? Haibara Ai or Ran??

[Sayomi 17]

Maybe..I'm having goosebumps now...

There's nothing wrong with yaoi, in my opinion xD It's cute sometimes But ShinRan still prevails >:DDDD

[Moonlight Magician 98]

There's nothing wrong with yaoi, in my opinion xD It's cute sometimes But ShinRan still prevails >:DDDD

Let's see...

I can't stare it for 5 seconds..

[Patronus Charm 53]

*ran away*

[Aeyra 260]

Let's see...

I can't stare it for 5 seconds..

OMG I've been searching forever for that!!! D:< Where did you find it?!?! Oops... We're getting off topic... Some ConAi come on so I find it less awkward to be addressing random parts of ShinRan.

[Moonlight Magician 98]

OMG I've been searching forever for that!!! D:< Where did you find it?!?! Oops... We're getting off topic... Some ConAi come on so I find it less awkward to be addressing random parts of ShinRan.

Hahaha yeah we're getting off-topic just because of this yaoi thingy... xD

*nods*

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

*rolls eyes* so what do you call your pairing? XD

I dunno. But I like ShinRan and I support ShinRan :P

no!!!! he isn't yours KKLT-san!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

WHY NOT?!?!?!

You've got a point... He's Hakuba Saguru's!

O__O Wait... er..

Let's see...

I can't stare it for 5 seconds..

OH MY GOSH!!! My heart started pumping so fast and my head is screaming!!!!! XD XD THIS IS CHOOO-KAWAII!!!! XD

[Aeyra 260]

It wont let me vote in the poll... So in the meantime, I shall tackle another common reason for Shinichi and Ran not to be together. The intelligence/interests factor. *takes deep breath* (prepare for a rant) Okay, let me reillustrate the situation. Shinichi and Ran have been best friends for ten years, maintaining the friendship through fights and bickering, through the teasing of classmates and the ups and downs of life. They walk to and from school together everyday, they go out together (not as an official couple, though we all know they both want it. XD), and they're so close everybody talks of them as husband and wife. Don't you think they have to have something in common? How can one go through ten years of constant conversation without shared interests and passions, or at the very least the feeling of a connection? It's ridiculous to suggest such because friendship is hard to keep without shared interests and even if they are never mentioned, they most definitely exist. On the intelligence perspective, I'll have to bow to Ai for being smarter than Ran. But who says just because somebody doesn't share your brain power means you can't be together? It's not like Ran can't handle Shinichi's train of thought- I mean, he's not talking about Quantum Physics. (trust me, that stuff is complicated. I got confused just figuring out the fifth dimension, let alone string theory) And Shinichi and Ai don't exactly share the same type of intelligence. Ai is a scientist, and everything is always unchanging, everything must abide the laws of nature and whatnot. She understands how chemicals react to one another, she knows physics to quite an extent (movie 5, need I say more?) and would probably be an honors student. While Shinichi has basic knowledge of Chemistry, it's not like he can really go in depth about it with her, and I don't think Ai is exactly willing to bear listening to Shinichi bragging about his newest solved case, his other hundred solved cases, the ones before that, Sherlock Holmes, soccer, the violin, and all those other random subjects. Shinichi's a pretty diverse guy, and he's always ready for change, and he has to be able to handle 'impossible' murders, it's simply his job. Investigation and the ability of deduction is far from the controlled, balanced science of chemistry. No two things are ever the same, a 'telltale' clue could always just be a red herring. It's never completely certain. So their intelligence is different, and they don't have many shared interests. Correct me if I'm mistaken, it's been a while since I've done a runthrough of the manga, but the only times Conan actually talks to Ai is either a.) about the DB, or b.) about the BO or Ran. I haven't noticed a true, casual, easygoing best friend conversation. I know they're friends, but they differ too much in my eyes to be a couple. And about Ran's intelligence... The girl knows Calculus for god's sake! She can't be that stupid! And even if she is, Shinichi doesn't seem to mind. (typing on an itouch is a pain in the @$$. Forgive any typos as the keyboard is crappy and likes messing up my typing.)

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

It wont let me vote in the poll... So in the meantime, I shall tackle another common reason for Shinichi and Ran not to be together. The intelligence/interests factor. *takes deep breath* (prepare for a rant) Okay, let me reillustrate the situation. Shinichi and Ran have been best friends for ten years, maintaining the friendship through fights and bickering, through the teasing of classmates and the ups and downs of life. They walk to and from school together everyday, they go out together (not as an official couple, though we all know they both want it. XD), and they're so close everybody talks of them as husband and wife. Don't you think they have to have something in common? How can one go through ten years of constant conversation without shared interests and passions, or at the very least the feeling of a connection? It's ridiculous to suggest such because friendship is hard to keep without shared interests and even if they are never mentioned, they most definitely exist. On the intelligence perspective, I'll have to bow to Ai for being smarter than Ran. But who says just because somebody doesn't share your brain power means you can't be together? It's not like Ran can't handle Shinichi's train of thought- I mean, he's not talking about Quantum Physics. (trust me, that stuff is complicated. I got confused just figuring out the fifth dimension, let alone string theory) And Shinichi and Ai don't exactly share the same type of intelligence. Ai is a scientist, and everything is always unchanging, everything must abide the laws of nature and whatnot. She understands how chemicals react to one another, she knows physics to quite an extent (movie 5, need I say more?) and would probably be an honors student. While Shinichi has basic knowledge of Chemistry, it's not like he can really go in depth about it with her, and I don't think Ai is exactly willing to bear listening to Shinichi bragging about his newest solved case, his other hundred solved cases, the ones before that, Sherlock Holmes, soccer, the violin, and all those other random subjects. Shinichi's a pretty diverse guy, and he's always ready for change, and he has to be able to handle 'impossible' murders, it's simply his job. Investigation and the ability of deduction is far from the controlled, balanced science of chemistry. No two things are ever the same, a 'telltale' clue could always just be a red herring. It's never completely certain. So their intelligence is different, and they don't have many shared interests. Correct me if I'm mistaken, it's been a while since I've done a runthrough of the manga, but the only times Conan actually talks to Ai is either a.) about the DB, or b.) about the BO or Ran. I haven't noticed a true, casual, easygoing best friend conversation. I know they're friends, but they differ too much in my eyes to be a couple. And about Ran's intelligence... The girl knows Calculus for god's sake! She can't be that stupid! And even if she is, Shinichi doesn't seem to mind. (typing on an itouch is a pain in the @$$. Forgive any typos as the keyboard is crappy and likes messing up my typing.)

AGREED!!!!

Wait... when did they mention Ran knows Calculus?! O__O

[Aeyra 260]

AGREED!!!!

Wait... when did they mention Ran knows Calculus?! O__O

During the mock exams, Sonoko teased Ran by saying she was looking at Shinichi's empty desk with a pleading expression saying, "Oh Shinichi, help me do this calculus." Which means Ran has taken Calculus. While this isn't that impressive in Japan (90% of students take it in high school compared to 1% in the US) you require brain power to do Calculus. And Ran being calm during her mock finals means she is reasonably confident, and therefore a good student. And quite a mature one on top of that.

[Kiel95 86]

i never said i would give anything but opinion its hard to go against opinion since no matter what you say you can't change my beliefs~ so even with concrete evidence on your behalf, when it comes to my mind, it won't mean anything xD

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

During the mock exams, Sonoko teased Ran by saying she was looking at Shinichi's empty desk with a pleading expression saying, "Oh Shinichi, help me do this calculus." Which means Ran has taken Calculus. While this isn't that impressive in Japan (90% of students take it in high school compared to 1% in the US) you require brain power to do Calculus. And Ran being calm during her mock finals means she is reasonably confident, and therefore a good student. And quite a mature one on top of that.

Yea... In my school everyone takes up calculus ! XD but I'm not living in Japan and yes. You have to have a certain amount of brain power to be good at calculus... XD though we have a cheat formula here to understand calculus XD

[BK201 31]

ConAi/ShinShi GO!

[Kyuu Nye 425]

ARgh.... Third time I've started to reply, stupid brother..

Okay, you are only one opinion out of many, and this reason is not backed by concrete evidence. Not to mention, ShinShi technically does not exist (Shiho is no longer existent, and Shinichi is technically dead), and therefore you are supporting a nonexistent couple. Because you are supporting a nonexistent couple, your opinion is null and void.

Pardon me... but your argument works against ShinRan as well... If Shinichi is technically dead, how can he be around for ShinRan? According to the BO Shiho is still alive and at large, so the way I see it they are on equal ground in that respect.

SO! You're argument fails, because Shiho does exist, she, like Shinichi, took on an assumed name to stay below the BO's radar. So if Shinichi exists for ShinRan, then both Shinichi and Shiho exists for ShinShi. If you argue against one you argue against both, destroying any argument for ShinShi and for ShinRan at the same time.

As for your intelligence and conversation argument...

Shinichi has a logical mind. This can be outlined in the case with Toichi. She believed in ghost and they had a falling out. That would never have happened with Shiho. Logical minds connect much easier. We haven't seen enough of either to really determine "casual conversation." As Shinichi he barely has a chance to talk to her casually, and as conan can you really consider that casual conversation as boyfriend and girlfriend? I think not.

As for science... Shiho is a Ph.D (or so it is inferred)... She is obviously smarter, but shinichi has shown extensive intelligence in chemistry and physics. Probably far beyond Ran's comprehension. If anything they'll teach each other of their respective interests. Something Ran has shown disinterest in NUMEROUS times. Where as Ai seems to have taken an interest in Shinichi's abilities detective work and would probably not mind talking about it with him, because both science and detective work require evidence of findings. Their knowledge bases may be different but they are alike in other ways. And what it comes down to is interest. Where Ran has none, Shiho seems to have some if not an elevated interest. Ran may be "smart" but she cannot compete to Shinichi, and certainly not Shiho who graduated college early with a Ph.D (or so it seems).

[Kiel95 86]

Pardon me... but your argument works against ShinRan as well... If Shinichi is technically dead, how can he be around for ShinRan? According to the BO Shiho is still alive and at large, so the way I see it they are on equal ground in that respect.

SO! You're argument fails, because Shiho does exist, she, like Shinichi, took on an assumed name to stay below the BO's radar. So if Shinichi exists for ShinRan, then both Shinichi and Shiho exists for ShinShi. If you argue against one you argue against both, destroying any argument for ShinShi and for ShinRan at the same time.

As for your intelligence and conversation argument...

Shinichi has a logical mind. This can be outlined in the case with Toichi. She believed in ghost and they had a falling out. That would never have happened with Shiho. Logical minds connect much easier. We haven't seen enough of either to really determine "casual conversation." As Shinichi he barely has a chance to talk to her casually, and as conan can you really consider that casual conversation as boyfriend and girlfriend? I think not.

As for science... Shiho is a Ph.D (or so it is inferred)... She is obviously smarter, but shinichi has shown extensive intelligence in chemistry and physics. Probably far beyond Ran's comprehension. If anything they'll teach each other of their respective interests. Something Ran has shown disinterest in NUMEROUS times. Where as Ai seems to have taken an interest in Shinichi's abilities detective work and would probably not mind talking about it with him, because both science and detective work require evidence of findings. Their knowledge bases may be different but they are alike in other ways. And what it comes down to is interest. Where Ran has none, Shiho seems to have some if not an elevated interest. Ran may be "smart" but she cannot compete to Shinichi, and certainly not Shiho who graduated college early with a Ph.D (or so it seems).

I love you <3 ^^ i know that all of this is correct, and i knew this to begin with, but somehow when it comes to explaining things i epically fail but when i tell it in a story it works out better xD but i'm not gonna write a story every post xD

so, since you can explain, side with shinshi, and are smart, I love you <3 ^^

[Aeyra 260]

Pardon me... but your argument works against ShinRan as well... If Shinichi is technically dead, how can he be around for ShinRan? According to the BO Shiho is still alive and at large, so the way I see it they are on equal ground in that respect.

SO! You're argument fails, because Shiho does exist, she, like Shinichi, took on an assumed name to stay below the BO's radar. So if Shinichi exists for ShinRan, then both Shinichi and Shiho exists for ShinShi. If you argue against one you argue against both, destroying any argument for ShinShi and for ShinRan at the same time.

As for your intelligence and conversation argument...

Shinichi has a logical mind. This can be outlined in the case with Toichi. She believed in ghost and they had a falling out. That would never have happened with Shiho. Logical minds connect much easier. We haven't seen enough of either to really determine "casual conversation." As Shinichi he barely has a chance to talk to her casually, and as conan can you really consider that casual conversation as boyfriend and girlfriend? I think not.

As for science... Shiho is a Ph.D (or so it is inferred)... She is obviously smarter, but shinichi has shown extensive intelligence in chemistry and physics. Probably far beyond Ran's comprehension. If anything they'll teach each other of their respective interests. Something Ran has shown disinterest in NUMEROUS times. Where as Ai seems to have taken an interest in Shinichi's abilities detective work and would probably not mind talking about it with him, because both science and detective work require evidence of findings. Their knowledge bases may be different but they are alike in other ways. And what it comes down to is interest. Where Ran has none, Shiho seems to have some if not an elevated interest. Ran may be "smart" but she cannot compete to Shinichi, and certainly not Shiho who graduated college early with a Ph.D (or so it seems).

God it's taken forever to get a computer. I've been at my friend's house all day. Now time for debate! I love debating! XD

Okay, so Shinichi has a logical mind. Ran believes in ghosts, and Shiho does not. Now somebody explain why Shiho freaked out like Ayumi while they were watching Gomera. And someone explain how someone's beliefs really affect a relationship! I'm pretty sure Ran knows this stuff isn't real, but she can't help but be scared of them. Most of us are frightened of going to a haunted house. (or you're like me and have never gone to one because their parents wouldn't let them and not to mention heard the screaming from inside and stories of the chainsaw man and resolved to never go inside one) And yes, I can see they actually talk quite casually. Gosho Aoyama only shows the parts of the phone calls when they're arguing, but Ran has referenced several casual conversations. In the introduction of Hattori Heiji, Ran describes how Shinichi talks about himself, and never asks about her. Talking about books, soccer, mysteries and what not shows they are more than capable of having casual conversations. Their closeness is also observed in movie 7 when Shinichi teases Ran about not showing her stomach, something most people would be quite uncomfortable with. And with Conan.... Ran talks to him like the person he appears to be, a little kid. That does not count, that's just pointless info on both parts. (Conan, what are you talking about now? Umm.... Kamen Yaiba! Yay! <- that is not talk between teenagers, that's a lame attempt at six-year speech.)

While I believe Shiho is more than intelligent enough to achieve a Ph. D, it has never been proven she has one. But intelligence is not much a key factor in a relationship as how well people get along. Whenever Shinichi and Shiho talk, you can tell neither of them ever break their own barriers, and chat in a guarded matter, as if they both still don't trust each other. It's a natural instinct. Shinichi, consciously or not, blames Shiho for the poison that's thrown his life completely off track. Shiho is trying to shake off the scars of the Black Organization, and for some unexplainable reason still hasn't told Shinichi everything. I know she fears for him and all that, but this means she doesn't trust him enough to tell him valuable information that could completely change the flow of the game, whether for good or for bad. I don't think they can ever completely break down the walls between them because there's just too much pain involved for both of them, and while having each other means they can understand it, having each other means those scars can never disappear, because a living remnant will always be right beside them, and it's nothing they can ever forget. However, if they go with different people and heal that way, they can become whole again.

And Ran can listen to Shinichi talk about detective stuff, otherwise how would she possibly have survived being his best friend for ten years? From watching the recent London arc, it's obvious she went over to visit him a lot, and listened to him talk about cases because he was reading a medical dictionary and probably talked to it with her later. He doesn't need someone who can discuss it right back to him, he just needs someone to listen to him rant all day, or they'd probably both be driven nuts. I don't need two medical dictionary fantards in my manga. And as in life, intelligence does not matter as long as they can understand each other (which they can.)

And now for my favorite part... Why Shinichi isn't dead for Ran, and for Ran only!!! (yes, I've always wanted someone to broach this subject with me! *goes crazy with excitement*) Everybody else has already accepted his appearance, everybody else basically has shoved him, Shinichi, right out of their heads. He's as good as dead, because he's only a mere memory, or for people like Heiji and Shiho, he's just an occasional stranger who shows up every once in a while. They've accepted Conan, the teenager in the kid's body. Ran is the only one who's clinging to Shinichi, the teenager who''s a teenager, and as long as he exists in her memories, and can find solace in her never ending belief and hope that he can return to her one day, he's alive. She's the only one keeping Shinichi alive, keeping the fading ghost present, the only one able to see him. That's part of their magical relationship- they won't stop believing in each other. If Ran were to disappear, Shinichi would believe in her, and even if she died, she would be alive for him so to speak. Shinichi is only a memory, but he's Ran's memory. He's alive for her. (and now I must stop because I think my mom's coming home. *frantically looks around* Bye! (and thanks for reading my... 837 word rant.)

[Kyuu Nye 425]

God it's taken forever to get a computer. I've been at my friend's house all day. Now time for debate! I love debating! XD

Okay, so Shinichi has a logical mind. Ran believes in ghosts, and Shiho does not. Now somebody explain why Shiho freaked out like Ayumi while they were watching Gomera. And someone explain how someone's beliefs really affect a relationship! I'm pretty sure Ran knows this stuff isn't real, but she can't help but be scared of them. Most of us are frightened of going to a haunted house. (or you're like me and have never gone to one because their parents wouldn't let them and not to mention heard the screaming from inside and stories of the chainsaw man and resolved to never go inside one) And yes, I can see they actually talk quite casually. Gosho Aoyama only shows the parts of the phone calls when they're arguing, but Ran has referenced several casual conversations. In the introduction of Hattori Heiji, Ran describes how Shinichi talks about himself, and never asks about her. Talking about books, soccer, mysteries and what not shows they are more than capable of having casual conversations. Their closeness is also observed in movie 7 when Shinichi teases Ran about not showing her stomach, something most people would be quite uncomfortable with. And with Conan.... Ran talks to him like the person he appears to be, a little kid. That does not count, that's just pointless info on both parts. (Conan, what are you talking about now? Umm.... Kamen Yaiba! Yay! <- that is not talk between teenagers, that's a lame attempt at six-year speech.)

While I believe Shiho is more than intelligent enough to achieve a Ph. D, it has never been proven she has one. But intelligence is not much a key factor in a relationship as how well people get along. Whenever Shinichi and Shiho talk, you can tell neither of them ever break their own barriers, and chat in a guarded matter, as if they both still don't trust each other. It's a natural instinct. Shinichi, consciously or not, blames Shiho for the poison that's thrown his life completely off track. Shiho is trying to shake off the scars of the Black Organization, and for some unexplainable reason still hasn't told Shinichi everything. I know she fears for him and all that, but this means she doesn't trust him enough to tell him valuable information that could completely change the flow of the game, whether for good or for bad. I don't think they can ever completely break down the walls between them because there's just too much pain involved for both of them, and while having each other means they can understand it, having each other means those scars can never disappear, because a living remnant will always be right beside them, and it's nothing they can ever forget. However, if they go with different people and heal that way, they can become whole again.

And Ran can listen to Shinichi talk about detective stuff, otherwise how would she possibly have survived being his best friend for ten years? From watching the recent London arc, it's obvious she went over to visit him a lot, and listened to him talk about cases because he was reading a medical dictionary and probably talked to it with her later. He doesn't need someone who can discuss it right back to him, he just needs someone to listen to him rant all day, or they'd probably both be driven nuts. I don't need two medical dictionary fantards in my manga. And as in life, intelligence does not matter as long as they can understand each other (which they can.)

And now for my favorite part... Why Shinichi isn't dead for Ran, and for Ran only!!! (yes, I've always wanted someone to broach this subject with me! *goes crazy with excitement*) Everybody else has already accepted his appearance, everybody else basically has shoved him, Shinichi, right out of their heads. He's as good as dead, because he's only a mere memory, or for people like Heiji and Shiho, he's just an occasional stranger who shows up every once in a while. They've accepted Conan, the teenager in the kid's body. Ran is the only one who's clinging to Shinichi, the teenager who''s a teenager, and as long as he exists in her memories, and can find solace in her never ending belief and hope that he can return to her one day, he's alive. She's the only one keeping Shinichi alive, keeping the fading ghost present, the only one able to see him. That's part of their magical relationship- they won't stop believing in each other. If Ran were to disappear, Shinichi would believe in her, and even if she died, she would be alive for him so to speak. Shinichi is only a memory, but he's Ran's memory. He's alive for her. (and now I must stop because I think my mom's coming home. *frantically looks around* Bye! (and thanks for reading my... 837 word rant.)

I'm going to try and keep this short and concise.

First paragraph response:

First off... Movie 7 WAS NOT written by Gosho, therefore anything that happened within it is completely moot. It is not canon. The whole thing about Ran being the only one clinging to Shinichi is CLEARLY not true. Sonoko still teases her about him, and remember the Desperate Revival? Yeah, he seemed real forgotten with him having the entire auditorium cheering for him. Not to mention

when Sera appeared everyone mentioned how she was a female Kudou.

Now, as for the arguing thing and everything else that you said... You know Kogorou and Eri? Yeah, they clearly still love each other, but ARGUE CONSTANTLY. What happened to them? Oh right, they separated! Honestly, the parallels between Eri and Kogorou, and Ran and Shinichi are astounding. If you cannot see that, I'm surprised.

Ran can listen, but she COMPLAINS constantly that he is so self centered. That is NOT healthy for a relationship, at all. I don't care if he is a detective, it doesn't work. Even with their "barriers" up, Shiho and Shin speak on equal terms and far more mutually. And I have stated this before in this same thread... There is no reason for Shinichi to keep anything from Ran because he himself barely knows anything, and she has already nearly gotten herself killed by the BO. Had it not been for Vermouth caring about her, she'd be dead. Where as Shiho probably doesn't say anything because he hasn't the tools to fight them. Lets say for the sake of argument she does tell him and he goes to the FBI and tells them "This little girl name Haibara Ai who used to be Shiho Miyano AKA Sherry told me XYZ about the BO, and we should act on it because I'm really Shinichi, a high school detective and I can help you." How do you THINK they would react? That sounds INSANE (partially because it is). The only one who MIGHT believe him is Jodie because she'd jump on that as the explanation of Vermouth's youth.

Third Paragraph:

So... she is basically Watson for Shinichi... Sits there and allows him to talk and bounce ideas off her. Occasionally being a moral guide. That doesn't sound like a romantic relationship... That sounds like a really good friend who has been friends with you for so long they cannot imagine not being friends with you anymore so they just but up with all of the annoyances. I know Gosho has made it quite clear that the reason is that of mutual love, but I'm sorry... that seems really sad.

Fourth:

Please see the first paragraph's argument. Your argument still fails because I don't think Shinichi has ever looked at her as Haibara Ai since he learned of her identity, same way Shiho doesn't look at Shinichi as Conan. And you bring up a great point... Everyone HAS accepted Conan, INCLUDING Ran. I've said this before, even IF it is for the right reasons, do you REALLY think she'll accept that, especially since she NEARLY DIED because of this lack of information? She'll complain "Shinichi didn't you trust me with the truth?" or something of the like.

I'll end by saying that they actually BOTH suck for Shinichi, and he is still better off marrying his father's library. I think between the two, Shiho is better for him.

PS: I never said that she had a Ph.D, only said that it was was implied, which it was.

[BK201 31]

whew.. awesome debate... I go for Shiho! Wooooh!

[Aeyra 260]

I'm going to try and keep this short and concise.

First paragraph response:

First off... Movie 7 WAS NOT written by Gosho, therefore anything that happened within it is completely moot. It is not canon. The whole thing about Ran being the only one clinging to Shinichi is CLEARLY not true. Sonoko still teases her about him, and remember the Desperate Revival? Yeah, he seemed real forgotten with him having the entire auditorium cheering for him. Not to mention

when Sera appeared everyone mentioned how she was a female Kudou.

Now, as for the arguing thing and everything else that you said... You know Kogorou and Eri? Yeah, they clearly still love each other, but ARGUE CONSTANTLY. What happened to them? Oh right, they separated! Honestly, the parallels between Eri and Kogorou, and Ran and Shinichi are astounding. If you cannot see that, I'm surprised.

Ran can listen, but she COMPLAINS constantly that he is so self centered. That is NOT healthy for a relationship, at all. I don't care if he is a detective, it doesn't work. Even with their "barriers" up, Shiho and Shin speak on equal terms and far more mutually. And I have stated this before in this same thread... There is no reason for Shinichi to keep anything from Ran because he himself barely knows anything, and she has already nearly gotten herself killed by the BO. Had it not been for Vermouth caring about her, she'd be dead. Where as Shiho probably doesn't say anything because he hasn't the tools to fight them. Lets say for the sake of argument she does tell him and he goes to the FBI and tells them "This little girl name Haibara Ai who used to be Shiho Miyano AKA Sherry told me XYZ about the BO, and we should act on it because I'm really Shinichi, a high school detective and I can help you." How do you THINK they would react? That sounds INSANE (partially because it is). The only one who MIGHT believe him is Jodie because she'd jump on that as the explanation of Vermouth's youth.

Third Paragraph:

So... she is basically Watson for Shinichi... Sits there and allows him to talk and bounce ideas off her. Occasionally being a moral guide. That doesn't sound like a romantic relationship... That sounds like a really good friend who has been friends with you for so long they cannot imagine not being friends with you anymore so they just but up with all of the annoyances. I know Gosho has made it quite clear that the reason is that of mutual love, but I'm sorry... that seems really sad.

Fourth:

Please see the first paragraph's argument. Your argument still fails because I don't think Shinichi has ever looked at her as Haibara Ai since he learned of her identity, same way Shiho doesn't look at Shinichi as Conan. And you bring up a great point... Everyone HAS accepted Conan, INCLUDING Ran. I've said this before, even IF it is for the right reasons, do you REALLY think she'll accept that, especially since she NEARLY DIED because of this lack of information? She'll complain "Shinichi didn't you trust me with the truth?" or something of the like.

I'll end by saying that they actually BOTH suck for Shinichi, and he is still better off marrying his father's library. I think between the two, Shiho is better for him.

PS: I never said that she had a Ph.D, only said that it was was implied, which it was.

Where have you been all the times I wanted a debate partner? This debate ROCKS! LOLZ to marrying the library. (The both suck argument is why for me, HeiShin is second. If Heiji were a girl, I'd switch in an instant. Scratch that, Shinichi's girl in that relationship. Okay, let's get a bit more serious, and I'll try to ignore the stabbing pain in my thigh. Forgive me if I write ow in random intervals and miss things, because scrolling through the editor on an iTouch is not easy.

I meant the true, inner Shinichi. How do I put this... Let's say Shinichi is a famous pop star, and Ran is his best friend. He disappears without an explanation, and the rest of the world freaks out in the beginning, but eventually forgets. There will be people who remember the music (his deduction genius), but only his family and this best and other close friends will remember the person inside. Instead of just some supermegafoxyawesomehot (I've been watching too much APVM...) detective who appears on TV a lot and is like- one of the smartest people on planet earth, Ran can remember all the times they hung out the together, the papery scent of aging books in his library as they laugh over lunch, she will remember who warm his arms felt when he wrapped them around her in New York, she can go back to all those times they got into trouble as innocent Kid's, concerned with nothing but the next time they could play, she can hear his violin, watch him practice in the study, giggle as he misses notes. She can remember back to that soccer game, where Shinichi missed the penalty shot, seeing the disappointment, but no shame, she'll remember teasing him and rolling her eyes when he got caught up in his Sherlock Holmes novels, gleefully illustrating with hands and words the adventures, the mystery, the drama. She knows more than just the cover. My point is (traveling back to pop star example), if Shinichi reappeared and I dunno, sang his hit song of course people will remember the superficial version. It's like if Justin Bieber went away for a year and came back. We wouldn't really miss him all that time, but we'll notice when he comes back. That's my argument for issue 1. (and it came out sounding like a story... Aeyra you idiot, save it for your writing!)

Now the constant complaining factor. I'm a teenager who has had a crush on a guy for ages. I'll always tease him sarcastically, poking fun when he goes on his rants. (and his rants are about quantum physics and nuclear bombs. I learn something new every time. *rolls eyes*) I'm not as close as Ran is to Shinichi, so I'll put my brother into the mix. My brother and get into an average of about three or more heated arguments today about how we've been pissing each other off, and it doesn't make us incompatible, in factfor some reason, our shared verbal abuse makes us extremely close. We can like- read each other's mind and know how to cheer each other up, cover up for each other, and basically be partners in crime. I also remember this great fanfic I read once, talking about how no arguments actually is really unnatural. And it is. You'd have to be the same person to never argue. (and even then there's problems, I contradict myself. A lot.) I'm not saying Shinichi and Shiho never argue, though when they do it's always something to do with the BO or the antidote or how stupid and reckless Shinichi is. And Shinichi is a stuck-up pompous prat, you can't really deny that. At least, he was until shrinking really made his ego run downhill. I can just see Shinichi bragging about his deductions like Tamaki of OHSHC about his looks. Shinichi and Ran are not Ran's mom and dad. Those two freaking acted like they hated each other's guts most of the time. I don't see Shinichi and Ran pulling each other's hair out daily, do you? Besides, Shinichi's not some crazy, wannabe detective like Kogoro. He's more passionate, and Ran's more understanding. They counteract each other very nicely.

Ah yes, the "tell her the truth already, d@#%^+!" part. I'm pretty sure I already made my standing on this point clear, and I don't feel like repeating myself. I can't remember what I said really, I was watching K-pop all day with my friends. I think the gist of my argument was that it's not Ran blabbing that's the true problem, but himself. Ran is the last wall that he's created for himself. It's quite obvious he'd like the truth to come out. List: Heiji, Eisuke, um.. Actually I forget... Oh well, these two are the only ones I was going to discuss anyways. Heiji appears reasonably early on, when Conan is still relatively clueless about what he's facing. He believes he'll be able to found a way out of it quickly (whether he's conscious of it or not) and is reluctant to tell anyone, especially after Agasa's warning. However, since Heiji is a genius (and totally awesome! XD APVM!), he figures it out and weaseled the truth out of poor lil' Conan. Conan's warmed up to him, and is reasonably willing to call on Heiji when he needs help. This was breaking down the first wall, telling the first person who didn't need to know. (I know Hattori was threatening him, but if Conan were more composed at the time, he might just have found a way out of it. Maybe. But I'm not complaining, I like HeiShin. XD) Eisuke is a major point for Shinichi. All Eisuke wanted (at least pretended) was to want to talk to Shinichi about bringing Ran to the US. It was part wanting to keep Ran with him(and making sure he wasn't stuck with Kogoro for the next ten years), part thinking Eisuke was entitled to the info seeing his sister was part of the BO, and part plain desperateness to share his secret. (after all, the more you spread the pain, you can halve the feeling each time. I forget where I heard that, but it fits nicely here) So as you can see, Shinichi is becoming much more open and less guarded. But telling Ran... That's the last step, the final move in his plan. To him, telling Ran is announcing that he's done with hiding, that he can't stand another minute of Conan. Like it or not, Agasa's words have stuck with him. "You must not tell anyone, especially not Ran-kun!" He's still abiding Agasa's rule from that first day, sometimes tempted to cross the line, but withdrawing every time for different reasons. (these reasons include cowardice and something that turns tides of deductions (Vol. 4, train bombing case)) He doesn't want to tell Ran until he beats the BO, and for reasons I've mentioned above and others I'm too lazy to remember.

And now for Shiho and the 'why she doesn't tell her all she knows' part. (my arm is starting to hurt from typing on my iTouch...) She does want to protect him, that's true. I'll fully admit that I'm almost definite she's in love with him. That's why I think she wants him stay as Conan, the only way she'll ever have him. The longer they can evade the BO, the more she can shed the dark memoirs of her shadowy past, the more she can relax in the light of a second chance, reliving childhood. Sure it's a stressful, life-threatening childhood, but for her, she's got a second chance at life. She has the boy she loves beside her, depending on her (even if to get a cure to his ailment so he can get back to Ran and pour out his heart to her), she has friends who trust her and treat her like a human (I think she was treated more like a robot or a doll at the BO- controllable and easily tossed around). She knows if she tells him, there'sa chance that he'll die, taking him out of her life, or there's the chance that he'll leave to be with Ran. Right now she's as close to her idea of a good life as she's ever been, and taking Conan out of it would plunge her world under again. She's selfish enough to want to keep him, but she's not cruel enough to want to pry him away from Ran once he turns back into Shinichi. That's how I see her psychology. Summary: She wants to keep Conan in her life really badly.

Okay, more Shiho. More technically, Haibara Ai. Before I start, I want to make something clear. My view on this topic seems to differ from absolutely everyone. I see Conan and Shinichi as separate people, and Shiho and Ai as separate people. Don't ask why, it's really long and complicated, and this argument doesn't need the extra paragraph. Okay, let's look at it this way first. Has Shinichi ever called Haibara Miyano? If my memory serves me correctly, I don't think he has. Ai calls him Kudo-kun in her head, but I want to point out she never knew Shinichi. Shinichi is a vibrant young detective/soccer-obsessed man with his whole life ahead of him, views untainted with the evil he faces now. Conan is a different persona, a persona that's different from the true him. Ai only knows the Conan who's weighed down by pressure, who's bored and sick of school, the Conan who wants to take revenge on the BO. Sure he's still obsessed with mysteries and soccer, but it's simply not the same. Shinichi doesnt want to be Conan, why should he? He's fighting so hard so he can regain his old life (and stop evil, but I dong care so much about that part ) Shinichi has everything to go back to. It's still there, as long as he can beat the BO and get the antidote. Shinichi is revivable. Shiho is not. Shiho is Sherry, Sherry is an important scientist for the BO. She can't go back, and the things that made Miyano Shiho who she was have disappeared. She doesn't have a sister to protect, she doesn't have a poison to create, she doesn't have a life to look forward to, she has lost lives on her hands, her parents are long dead, she has Gin harassing her. She had one future, and that is gone. But now, with the defeat of the BO, she has everything. She doesn't need to antidote, and frankly, she'd be better off without it. She's already in a closely knit group of friends, and there's no reason to leave them. She's their nonchalant mother hen. (oxymoron but whatever!)

What I meant by accepting Conan was this. For those who know his secret, Shinichi has been replaced by Conan. For those who don't know but are close, Shinichi and Conan coexist. For Ran in particular, her *struggles for word* perspective is different from everyone's. Shinichi is not just a ghost for her, he's still the guy he was, and she knows he's maturing, that he's gone and she doesn't know where he is, but he's still an important part of her, a part that has to be there. Conan is her adopted brother.,He has made a niche for himself in her heart, but he hasn't burrowed himself nearly as deep as Shinichi. Ran 'knows' *cough**hack**cough* that Conan will leave to be with his parents one day, so he could leave and while there would be a hole, that hole can be easily patched up. The hole Shinichi would leave is so much greater, and I don't think it could ever be mended entirely. Ran isn't very strong emotionally (probably from all those terrifying fights she witnessed her parents having as a child. It must be terrible to have the two people who are supposed to be your constants in youth fighting, maybe because of you. She had to handle that pain alone, and I think it scarred her. Maybe. Ask me in a few years after I take AP Psych.) so friends are a big part of her. They were her support when she couldn't depend on her parents. Shinichi was probably the person she leaned on when she needed a shoulder to cry on as a kid.

Oh great, now the acceptance thing. Can I do it later? I've been typing for a whole hour, iTouchs are slow and bothersome and it's almost midnight. I really am impressed by your passion for ConAi/ShinShi. It reminds me of me and DraMione. Completely unexpected, non-canon couple, but I still love it to bits. Let's just not tear each other to bits. (I'm not saying we are, but controlled debates can flame up if not watched) I'll make my arguments so that ShinRans agree and ConAis at least get the gist, and you'll just be the other way around. Healthy discussion is good for all!

[Moonlight Magician 98]

Phew what a long post I will read that later.

[Kiel95 86]

everything is so long >///< it kills me to try to read... so... simply... WHOEVER SIDES WITH SHINSHI IS MY NEW LOVE! <3 ~~~ ^^ now then, have a safe and happy debate, and try not to rip each other to shreds, but Kyuu... WIN <3 love u xD

[BK201 31]

Excellent argument, Aeyra!

BUT I still Go for ConAi/ShinShi!

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

Yea ... My head... I can't believe you guys are in such a heated debate over conai or shinran... What is so logical about love?! I don't think it can be explained so easily with logic or facts. Basically all it boils down to is whether or not they love each other?!?? I still support shinran!

[Aeyra 260]

Yea ... My head... I can't believe you guys are in such a heated debate over conai or shinran... What is so logical about love?! I don't think it can be explained so easily with logic or facts. Basically all it boils down to is whether or not they love each other?!?? I still support shinran!

Definitely! I know that both of our arguments are pointless because emotion is something that is neither fact or opinion, but rather unreadable and mysterious. It's just so fun to write that much! Over 2,700 words! (and I could have put that time into writing my DraMione fic... *pouts* I wish there were more DraMione in this world... It's my fandom right now. Basically my ranting is just digging into the recesses of my mind and finding things I found useful for story ideas. My brain is an interesting place, I think i got lost.)

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Where have you been all the times I wanted a debate partner? This debate ROCKS! LOLZ to marrying the library. (The both suck argument is why for me, HeiShin is second. If Heiji were a girl, I'd switch in an instant. Scratch that, Shinichi's girl in that relationship. Okay, let's get a bit more serious, and I'll try to ignore the stabbing pain in my thigh. Forgive me if I write ow in random intervals and miss things, because scrolling through the editor on an iTouch is not easy.

I meant the true, inner Shinichi. How do I put this... Let's say Shinichi is a famous pop star, and Ran is his best friend. He disappears without an explanation, and the rest of the world freaks out in the beginning, but eventually forgets. There will be people who remember the music (his deduction genius), but only his family and this best and other close friends will remember the person inside. Instead of just some supermegafoxyawesomehot (I've been watching too much APVM...) detective who appears on TV a lot and is like- one of the smartest people on planet earth, Ran can remember all the times they hung out the together, the papery scent of aging books in his library as they laugh over lunch, she will remember who warm his arms felt when he wrapped them around her in New York, she can go back to all those times they got into trouble as innocent Kid's, concerned with nothing but the next time they could play, she can hear his violin, watch him practice in the study, giggle as he misses notes. She can remember back to that soccer game, where Shinichi missed the penalty shot, seeing the disappointment, but no shame, she'll remember teasing him and rolling her eyes when he got caught up in his Sherlock Holmes novels, gleefully illustrating with hands and words the adventures, the mystery, the drama. She knows more than just the cover. My point is (traveling back to pop star example), if Shinichi reappeared and I dunno, sang his hit song of course people will remember the superficial version. It's like if Justin Bieber went away for a year and came back. We wouldn't really miss him all that time, but we'll notice when he comes back. That's my argument for issue 1. (and it came out sounding like a story... Aeyra you idiot, save it for your writing!)

Now the constant complaining factor. I'm a teenager who has had a crush on a guy for ages. I'll always tease him sarcastically, poking fun when he goes on his rants. (and his rants are about quantum physics and nuclear bombs. I learn something new every time. *rolls eyes*) I'm not as close as Ran is to Shinichi, so I'll put my brother into the mix. My brother and get into an average of about three or more heated arguments today about how we've been pissing each other off, and it doesn't make us incompatible, in factfor some reason, our shared verbal abuse makes us extremely close. We can like- read each other's mind and know how to cheer each other up, cover up for each other, and basically be partners in crime. I also remember this great fanfic I read once, talking about how no arguments actually is really unnatural. And it is. You'd have to be the same person to never argue. (and even then there's problems, I contradict myself. A lot.) I'm not saying Shinichi and Shiho never argue, though when they do it's always something to do with the BO or the antidote or how stupid and reckless Shinichi is. And Shinichi is a stuck-up pompous prat, you can't really deny that. At least, he was until shrinking really made his ego run downhill. I can just see Shinichi bragging about his deductions like Tamaki of OHSHC about his looks. Shinichi and Ran are not Ran's mom and dad. Those two freaking acted like they hated each other's guts most of the time. I don't see Shinichi and Ran pulling each other's hair out daily, do you? Besides, Shinichi's not some crazy, wannabe detective like Kogoro. He's more passionate, and Ran's more understanding. They counteract each other very nicely.

Ah yes, the "tell her the truth already, d@#%^+!" part. I'm pretty sure I already made my standing on this point clear, and I don't feel like repeating myself. I can't remember what I said really, I was watching K-pop all day with my friends. I think the gist of my argument was that it's not Ran blabbing that's the true problem, but himself. Ran is the last wall that he's created for himself. It's quite obvious he'd like the truth to come out. List: Heiji, Eisuke, um.. Actually I forget... Oh well, these two are the only ones I was going to discuss anyways. Heiji appears reasonably early on, when Conan is still relatively clueless about what he's facing. He believes he'll be able to found a way out of it quickly (whether he's conscious of it or not) and is reluctant to tell anyone, especially after Agasa's warning. However, since Heiji is a genius (and totally awesome! XD APVM!), he figures it out and weaseled the truth out of poor lil' Conan. Conan's warmed up to him, and is reasonably willing to call on Heiji when he needs help. This was breaking down the first wall, telling the first person who didn't need to know. (I know Hattori was threatening him, but if Conan were more composed at the time, he might just have found a way out of it. Maybe. But I'm not complaining, I like HeiShin. XD) Eisuke is a major point for Shinichi. All Eisuke wanted (at least pretended) was to want to talk to Shinichi about bringing Ran to the US. It was part wanting to keep Ran with him(and making sure he wasn't stuck with Kogoro for the next ten years), part thinking Eisuke was entitled to the info seeing his sister was part of the BO, and part plain desperateness to share his secret. (after all, the more you spread the pain, you can halve the feeling each time. I forget where I heard that, but it fits nicely here) So as you can see, Shinichi is becoming much more open and less guarded. But telling Ran... That's the last step, the final move in his plan. To him, telling Ran is announcing that he's done with hiding, that he can't stand another minute of Conan. Like it or not, Agasa's words have stuck with him. "You must not tell anyone, especially not Ran-kun!" He's still abiding Agasa's rule from that first day, sometimes tempted to cross the line, but withdrawing every time for different reasons. (these reasons include cowardice and something that turns tides of deductions (Vol. 4, train bombing case)) He doesn't want to tell Ran until he beats the BO, and for reasons I've mentioned above and others I'm too lazy to remember.

And now for Shiho and the 'why she doesn't tell her all she knows' part. (my arm is starting to hurt from typing on my iTouch...) She does want to protect him, that's true. I'll fully admit that I'm almost definite she's in love with him. That's why I think she wants him stay as Conan, the only way she'll ever have him. The longer they can evade the BO, the more she can shed the dark memoirs of her shadowy past, the more she can relax in the light of a second chance, reliving childhood. Sure it's a stressful, life-threatening childhood, but for her, she's got a second chance at life. She has the boy she loves beside her, depending on her (even if to get a cure to his ailment so he can get back to Ran and pour out his heart to her), she has friends who trust her and treat her like a human (I think she was treated more like a robot or a doll at the BO- controllable and easily tossed around). She knows if she tells him, there'sa chance that he'll die, taking him out of her life, or there's the chance that he'll leave to be with Ran. Right now she's as close to her idea of a good life as she's ever been, and taking Conan out of it would plunge her world under again. She's selfish enough to want to keep him, but she's not cruel enough to want to pry him away from Ran once he turns back into Shinichi. That's how I see her psychology. Summary: She wants to keep Conan in her life really badly.

Okay, more Shiho. More technically, Haibara Ai. Before I start, I want to make something clear. My view on this topic seems to differ from absolutely everyone. I see Conan and Shinichi as separate people, and Shiho and Ai as separate people. Don't ask why, it's really long and complicated, and this argument doesn't need the extra paragraph. Okay, let's look at it this way first. Has Shinichi ever called Haibara Miyano? If my memory serves me correctly, I don't think he has. Ai calls him Kudo-kun in her head, but I want to point out she never knew Shinichi. Shinichi is a vibrant young detective/soccer-obsessed man with his whole life ahead of him, views untainted with the evil he faces now. Conan is a different persona, a persona that's different from the true him. Ai only knows the Conan who's weighed down by pressure, who's bored and sick of school, the Conan who wants to take revenge on the BO. Sure he's still obsessed with mysteries and soccer, but it's simply not the same. Shinichi doesnt want to be Conan, why should he? He's fighting so hard so he can regain his old life (and stop evil, but I dong care so much about that part ) Shinichi has everything to go back to. It's still there, as long as he can beat the BO and get the antidote. Shinichi is revivable. Shiho is not. Shiho is Sherry, Sherry is an important scientist for the BO. She can't go back, and the things that made Miyano Shiho who she was have disappeared. She doesn't have a sister to protect, she doesn't have a poison to create, she doesn't have a life to look forward to, she has lost lives on her hands, her parents are long dead, she has Gin harassing her. She had one future, and that is gone. But now, with the defeat of the BO, she has everything. She doesn't need to antidote, and frankly, she'd be better off without it. She's already in a closely knit group of friends, and there's no reason to leave them. She's their nonchalant mother hen. (oxymoron but whatever!)

What I meant by accepting Conan was this. For those who know his secret, Shinichi has been replaced by Conan. For those who don't know but are close, Shinichi and Conan coexist. For Ran in particular, her *struggles for word* perspective is different from everyone's. Shinichi is not just a ghost for her, he's still the guy he was, and she knows he's maturing, that he's gone and she doesn't know where he is, but he's still an important part of her, a part that has to be there. Conan is her adopted brother.,He has made a niche for himself in her heart, but he hasn't burrowed himself nearly as deep as Shinichi. Ran 'knows' *cough**hack**cough* that Conan will leave to be with his parents one day, so he could leave and while there would be a hole, that hole can be easily patched up. The hole Shinichi would leave is so much greater, and I don't think it could ever be mended entirely. Ran isn't very strong emotionally (probably from all those terrifying fights she witnessed her parents having as a child. It must be terrible to have the two people who are supposed to be your constants in youth fighting, maybe because of you. She had to handle that pain alone, and I think it scarred her. Maybe. Ask me in a few years after I take AP Psych.) so friends are a big part of her. They were her support when she couldn't depend on her parents. Shinichi was probably the person she leaned on when she needed a shoulder to cry on as a kid.

Oh great, now the acceptance thing. Can I do it later? I've been typing for a whole hour, iTouchs are slow and bothersome and it's almost midnight. I really am impressed by your passion for ConAi/ShinShi. It reminds me of me and DraMione. Completely unexpected, non-canon couple, but I still love it to bits. Let's just not tear each other to bits. (I'm not saying we are, but controlled debates can flame up if not watched) I'll make my arguments so that ShinRans agree and ConAis at least get the gist, and you'll just be the other way around. Healthy discussion is good for all!

Ok… I’m going to take this on by saying how much do we actually know about Shinichi’s friends? The only friends that we know about in that grade level are Ran, Sonoko, Shinichi and that psycho girl who spread rumors. However, it has been shown that Shinichi has had plenty of other actual friends, and has even alluded to them when wishing he could return back. Ran is basically his best friend, but she is not his only friend. At the very least he has his former soccer club buddies, just because he isn’t a part of the club anymore, does not mean that they are no longer his friends and don’t worry that he has been gone for so long. Gosho does this because he doesn’t want to overload us with a bunch of useless characters, something DC already has enough of. He figures that he only needs the main cast to develop the characters he already has. And it is a good choice, more characters means more to develop and more confusion for the reader. So it is not fair to assume that Ran is the only one who remembers the “real” Shinichi. Also, he only played violin in M12 (please refer back to my previous post about only using evidence from manga canon), So my point is that you cannot assume just because Gosho doesn’t want to introduce any of Shinichi’s friends that they do not exist. He has only introduced one, but has referenced several others. It would be pretty silly of Gosho to introduce Shinichi’s friends as well because HE IS NEVER AROUND. What is scarier in my opinion is that Ran seems to have only one friend. Hell

Kazuha was able to bring several friends to that building that should have been visited by Heiji, but wasn't even though Kazuha could have been killed by a mysterious guy sending cryptic messages

, but I have never seen Ran with anyone more than Sonoko or Kazuha, and Kazuha is more of a casual friend than a close friend (though they do have a lot in common).

There is a difference between complaining and teasing and seemingly blocking out entirely. Ran doesn’t seem just to be sarcastically making fun of him, she seems thoroughly disinterested tuning him out completely at times (I specifically remember the first chapter on the rollercoaster). Now I’m not saying she isn’t being tsundere, but at times she clearly isn’t. Now granted I’m sure that is fine, but it still isn’t ideal. And we also see Shiho/Ai messing with him too, and that is far more apparent than Ran’s complaining and what we can only assume are sarcastic remarks to Shinichi’s ramblings. Ai, even in the presence of the DBoys pays attention and gives either counterpoint or significant input (or screws with him). She does the same thing only much more intelligently. And again, we only see a limited basis, but it is clear when she messes with him she is messing with him on an adult level not a child level, which is why when she does in the presence of the DBoys Ayumi usually seems confused, so we can assume those times she is acting as Shiho would not Ai. Unfortunately for all ShinShis Conan and Ai are never alone in a casual setting or under normal circumstances. The last that I can recall was when he was walking home with her after they first met. And all she did was play with him, which was before she developed feelings for him.

Though this is in response to the longest paragraph, there isn’t much to say about it. Everyone who has figured it out FORCED it out of him (why Takagi wasn’t able to do the same is unknown to me). Ran was never smart enough to figure a ploy to force it out of him. She never really tried; she just waits for him to tell her. She just allows Conan ample time to figure a way to trick her, and he always does. I don’t think she wants to know because of what it might mean (also I think she might feel the sudden urge to kill him). And clearly Agasa’s words did not stick with him, because he was about to do it if it wasn’t for Shiho talking him out of it with a gun (granted a fake one) at his head. But he still should have told her… Instead he is constantly giving her a complex by finding new and interesting ways to make her doubt herself. And again, if he doesn’t tell her, he should realize by now that she’ll get involved whether she knows or not. He is no longer protecting her. In order to protect her he should tell her and move to Agasa’s. If he doesn’t I can only assume it is for selfish reasons like “I want to be close to Ran despite her not knowing.” She’d really be dead because of the secrets he is keeping. He would be stupid to not realize otherwise. On the other hand Shiho and he have very well calculated secrets, and contrary to popular belief, secrets are required for healthy relationships. You don’t need to tell everything, and some secrets are better kept. Especially if they have to do with an organization that WILL KILL the second you get close.

I don’t think she wants Conan specifically… She just wants friends. Surely if she becomes Shiho again (and either attends HS or gets a job) she’ll make new friends. Either way she’ll need someone who knows what she went through and that someone is best to be Shinichi. She can’t stay as a child because she has NOTHING proving the existence of Haibara Ai. The FBI COULD set her up with witness protection, but I think she’d rather be with Shinichi and take the risk rather than start over. So in the end, though I think Gosho will ignore that huge loophole she technically has to return to being Shiho.

I actually agree with your view of Co/Shin and Shi/Ai. Ai and Conan are merely characters played by their adult counterparts. However I disagree on one major point... Shinichi's growth as a character is stinted. For a while he looked like he was getting it, taking the time he was allotted as an adult and making the best of it. He did this progressively better, UNTIL London. Granted he made a huge step forward with his relationship with Ran, but he took a MAJOR step back in his overall character development. Up until then he assumed that the prototype antidote was unstable and lasted for an unknown amount of time, and he slowly started to resist asking for more lest he REALLY needed it. Now he is back to square one asking Haibara for an unlimited supply. This is basically saying to me that he no longer cares about returning to Ran permanently (bear with me on this). Shinichi is a really smart guy, so I know he hasn't forgotten about Haibara's warning about resistance to the antidote, and I'm sure he realizes the overall stakes on it. So by going back to that point he is basically saying "I don't care if I can never return to Shinichi so long as I can be with Ran as long as I can now." Where as the smart thing to do would have been to figure a way to dodge Ran's forcing him to confess and return to status quo, and bide his time again until he could be sure that the antidote would fully restore him. That would have been [to use your word] the "mature" thing to do. Instead he decided to act like a child [perhaps, despite my normal stance on the topic, Conan is actually BAD for Shinichi... an interesting notion... I think I'll expand about that tomorrow in a new topic] and decided that the prototype incomplete antitodes were enough and he should be given an unlimited supply to do with what he will despite the grave risks. It is honestly ridiculous... It looks as if Gosho decided to advance the romance and revert the development of the character.

Last paragraph is the same argument as the first. We don’t know anything about Shinichi’s friends other than they exist. To make brash assumptions about them is just wrong. They could be just as worried as others. His parents don’t mind only because he is basically staying at the house of the person they assume to be his future wife, but I don’t think they’d mind him hooking up and marrying Shiho instead so long as he is happy. Also, I don’t think you give enough credit to Ran… She is VERY strong emotionally. Just because a person cries does not make them weak, but the opposite. The person who can cry is usually stronger emotionally because they aren’t afraid to show their feelings and let them out. Doing so allows them to work through their feelings more effectively and not end up with a complex that will land them in a psychologists office.

[To answer your initial question... CLEARLY I was at DCTP all this time <3]

PS: The fact that you wrote ALL OF THAT on an iTouch frightens me...

[Aeyra 260]

[Reserved for a more lengthy reply] I'm not going to do my full reply just yet, because there is a lot to say... I will point out this though....

I actually agree with your view of Co/Shin and Shi/Ai. Ai and Conan are merely characters played by their adult counterparts. However I disagree on one major point... Shinichi's growth as a character is stinted. For a while he looked like he was getting it, taking the time he was allotted as an adult and making the best of it. He did this progressively better, UNTIL London. Granted he made a huge step forward with his relationship with Ran, but he took a MAJOR step back in his overall character development. Up until then he assumed that the prototype antidote was unstable and lasted for an unknown amount of time, and he slowly started to resist asking for more lest he REALLY needed it. Now he is back to square one asking Haibara for an unlimited supply. This is basically saying to me that he no longer cares about returning to Ran permanently (bear with me on this). Shinichi is a really smart guy, so I know he hasn't forgotten about Haibara's warning about resistance to the antidote, and I'm sure he realizes the overall stakes on it. So by going back to that point he is basically saying "I don't care if I can never return to Shinichi so long as I can be with Ran as long as I can now." Where as the smart thing to do would have been to figure a way to dodge Ran's forcing him to confess and return to status quo, and bide his time again until he could be sure that the antidote would fully restore him. That would have been [to use your word] the "mature" thing to do. Instead he decided to act like a child [perhaps, despite my normal stance on the topic, Conan is actually BAD for Shinichi... an interesting notion... I think I'll expand about that tomorrow in a new topic] and decided that the prototype incomplete antitodes were enough and he should be given an unlimited supply to do with what he will despite the grave risks. It is honestly ridiculous... It looks as if Gosho decided to advance the romance and revert the development of the character.

[To answer your initial question... CLEARLY I was at DCTP all this time <3]

PS: The fact that you wrote ALL OF THAT on an iTouch frightens me...

It frightens me too... ... ... I spent an hour typing it and I'll have to go it tomorrow to fix all my typos and holes. I kept forgetting which topic I was on. I've always thought Conan was making Shinichi more into a child, and that he's becoming less and less mature as time goes on. I think he realizes that the permanent antidote may never be created and that he wants to confess before it's too late. Also, he could die any day now, so he also has to take that into consideration. *smiles* DCTP? I don't remember if my account was ever approved... And I like this forum better, it feels cleaner in a way. I like your views, it's really expanding my own perspective. I'm not a fan of ConAi/ShinShi or whatever now (and I don't believe I ever will be, I have pride issues. I'm a pretty stubborn person, and sometimes I manipulate myself. Strange, right?) it's nice to see the London scene from the eyes of a ShinShi that's not a "NOOOOO!". I really enjoy this conversation, I really do. Can't wait for your longer post tomorrow! Hopefully, my reply will be shorter. All the time i set aside for writing my story slipped away... Oh well, this was fun too! Go Team ShinRan!