Arabic...

[snowflake 41]

I know speak Arabic, but with Iraqi accent, sometimes I get annoyed with myself because I'm not used to write Arabic.

EVERYONE speaks with an accent. No one speaks original proper Arabic, and if they did there still are accents or something like that in Arabic.  

Hi, I'm an Arab too and I'm happy because there are some members interested in Arabic.

Thank you snowflake. 

The lover العاشق (el-'ashek)

You're welcome!

Oh XD Judging from your location, you're Egyptian?

[conanshinichi 15]

EVERYONE speaks with an accent. No one speaks original proper Arabic, and if they did there still are accents or something like that in Arabic.   You're welcome!

Oh XD Judging from your location, you're Egyptian?

I gotta be honest, I hate arabic that isn't proper Arabic, it doesn't sound as eloquent and pleseant as Modern Standard Arabic.

But that's just me.

[snowflake 41]

I gotta be honest, I hate arabic that isn't proper Arabic, it doesn't sound as eloquent and pleseant as Modern Standard Arabic.

But that's just me.

Wait, which one do you like?

This one: أمس احنا رحنا المدرسة و كان طفش

Or this one: يا من يعز علينا أن نفارقهم... وجداننا كل شيء بعدكم عدم

I like the second one; original Arabic. Actual Arabic. It's such a rich language with trillions of very precise words and perfectly logical grammar. XD Never mind me. *in love with Arabic*

[TheLover 4]

You are discussing about proper Arabic and accent, in my opinion proper Arabic is better for writing articles, poems and novels, but for speaking accent is more easily, right? Just my opinion *_*

[snowflake 41]

^I think "proper" Arabic is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH prettier. Much. Though it is kinda fun to try and figure out which dialect words come from which original words, or from which language they come from.

[TheLover 4]

OK! I like your opinion, I enjoy figuring out too.

[snowflake 41]

[kanra 0]

i think it'll very useful. then i'm interesting to learn about arabic because it'll benefit when i'm studying abroad. and i'm looking for arabic course, but itso hard to find here. hopefully we'll get along to learn more bout it

[Calia Archer 12]

Hello, I'm Syrian. As a native speaker, I can say that learning Arabic is not easy. It needs a lot of patience, and it's not like any other language as it belongs to the Afro-Asiatic language family. Whereas English, for example, belongs to the Indo-European language family. So there is much much difference. Now for me, I don't have much time to join and teach our friends Arabic as I have to continue my edit for the wiki, but I can give a summary.

 

Actually "Arabic" is a name applied to the descendants of the Classical Arabic language of the 6th century AD. "Classical Arabic" is the language of Qur'an. Nowadays, it's used as a liturgical language of Islam.The literary language is called Modern Standard Arabic. It is currently the official form of Arabic, used in most written documents as well as in formal spoken occasions, such as lectures and news broadcasts. Finally, the spoken language is called Colloquial Arabic. It is a collective term for the spoken varieties of Arabic used throughout the Arab world, which differs radically from the Modern Standard Arabic.

 

So we have three kinds of Arabic Language:

1. Classical Arabic;  Only found when reading Qur'an.

2. Modern Standard Arabic: Is currently the official form of Arabic.
3. Colloquial Arabic: Is the spoken language that contains many dialects

[snowflake 41]

^Did you get that from the Internet?

I... don't... see that as exactly true. "Classic Arabic" isn't really something. It's not just found in reading the Quran. When the Quran first came down that was how people used to speak, and many centuries later they still spoke it. "Modern Standard Arabic" many people might see very different from "Classic Arabic", but it's not. Due to many foreigners joining Islam over the centuries and settling down in Arab countries, what you've called "Colloquial Arabic" has formed over time. But original Arabic, "Modern Standard Arabic", is still used. Why it's different from what you've called "Classic Arabic" is because, unfortunately, lots of Arabs' Arabic has weakened, and so when they speak the original language ("Modern Standard Arabic") it is a lot more basic than the language used in the Quran, which is very rich in language that even people of the prophet's صلى الله عليه و سلم time were surprised.

So there's really no such thing as "Classic Arabic" and "Modern Standard Arabic" they're the same thing but the former happens to use richer words and meanings, due to modern people's... ignorance of it.

[Calia Archer 12]

^Did you get that from the Internet?

I... don't... see that as exactly true. "Classic Arabic" isn't really something. It's not just found in reading the Quran. When the Quran first came down that was how people used to speak, and many centuries later they still spoke it.

1. I'm talking about nowadays. Can you find now someone who speaks the language of God !!!??? because I don't think so. So nowadays, you can only find Classical Arabic in Qur'an.
2. Do you really think that when Qur'an first came, people were talking the same!!! If so, why don't we find that in (أحاديث الرسول (ص ?

Inimitability of the Qur'an or "I'jaz-إعجاز" is the belief that no human speech can match the Qur'an in its content and form. The Qur'an is considered an inimitable miracle by Muslims, and thereby the central proof granted to our prophet Mohammad (ص) in authentication of his prophetic status. So how come you say "that was how people used to speak"!!!

 

^"Modern Standard Arabic" many people might see very different from "Classic Arabic", but it's not.

Sorry to tell you that it is different in terms of :

1. Lexis (all the words and phrases of a particular language). There are so many words that aren't used in the Modern Standard Arabic or the Spoken Arabic, which can be only found in Qur'an.
2. Stylistics (the study of style and the methods used in written language). Qur'an is actually considered the finest piece of literature in Arabic language. It's the speech of God.

On the other hand, what has been remained the same is :

1. Morphology (the forms of words-علم الصرف).
2. Syntax (the way that words and phrases are put together to form sentences in a language-علم النحو).

So your opinion is inaccurate or imprecise.

 

^ But original Arabic, "Modern Standard Arabic", is still used

I didn't say it's not. Of course it's used, that's why it's called "Modern", but it's not spoken in our informal everyday conversations. That's why I said "it's used in most written documents as well as in formal spoken occasions, such as lectures and news broadcasts".

 

^language used in the Quran, which is very rich in language that even people of the prophet's صلى الله عليه و سلم time were surprised.

 

^When the Quran first came down that was how people used to speak, and many centuries later they still spoke it.

Comparing between the two quotations above, you actually are contradicting yourself.

[snowflake 41]

• I'm talking about nowadays. Can you find now someone who speaks the language of God !!!??? because I don't think so. So nowadays, you can only find Classical Arabic in Qur'an.
• Do you really think that when Qur'an first came, people were talking the same!!! If so, why don't we find that in (أحاديث الرسول (ص ?

Inimitability of the Qur'an or "I'jaz-إعجاز" is the belief that no human speech can match the Qur'an in its content and form. The Qur'an is considered an inimitable miracle by Muslims, and thereby the central proof granted to our prophet Mohammad (ص) in authentication of his prophetic status. So how come you say "that was how people used to speak"!!!

There IS a decent number of people who know Arabic well enough to understand the Quran without reading تفسير whatsoever. It's not like the Quran came down with words that never existed before. They were words that existed, expressions that existed, and the very few new religious terms in the Quran were derived from words that existed before that. What, did God send a book with new unclear words no one that time had ever heard of? NO. The meaning was very clear to Arabs than because that was the language they spoke. In the Quran, countless times, it says ((آيات بينات)) about the Quran's verses, meaning they are clear to understand and yet are rich and nothing could match them. Plus, if what you're calling MSA and CA are different things, how come there's a single word, فصحى, for them in Arabic?

Only in the Quran can you find rich language? You really should read poetry. Of course in NO WAY do I mean that there is anything richer than the Quran, it's just there's A LOT of poetry before, during, and after the prophet's life. And it is said about the prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم that he ((أوتي جوامع الكلم)), and 'Aisha رضي الله عنها once said something that meant "he spoke in very simple language that really anyone could understand".

The إعجاز in the Quran isn't the individual words themselves; they existed beforehand, and like I said previously any other terms were derived from previously-existing words. It's the way the words perfectly fit together, the way they were used. And, unlike poetry, there was no ضرورة شعرية WHATSOEVER to make the Quran rhyme when it did. The way it told of stories of people or prophets many centuries or millenniums ago that know one or few had heard of before is also called إعجاز, and the way it sometimes told of the future, and the way any scientific information in it is 100% true, though people never scientifically proved it until MUCH afterwards.

Sorry to tell you that it is different in terms of :

• Lexis (all the words and phrases of a particular language). There are so many words that aren't used in the Modern Standard Arabic or the Spoken Arabic, which can be only found in Qur'an.
• Stylistics (the study of style and the methods used in written language). Qur'an is actually considered the finest piece of literature in Arabic language. It's the speech of God.

On the other hand, what has been remained the same is :

• Morphology (the forms of words-علم الصرف).
• Syntax (the way that words and phrases are put together to form sentences in a language-علم النحو).

So your opinion is inaccurate or imprecise.

-Lexis: Of course, people's فصحى language has weakened because of the very common use of عامية (colloquial Arabic). But if you go back to old literature, you'll find lots of vocabulary used that is also used in the Quran. Also, though this doesn't exactly count, some خطباء might use language from the Quran, or take expressions from it.

-Stylistics: I have nothing against that; it IS, of course, the finest piece of literature by far, and no piece of literature could surpass the Quran.

My argument here isn't that the Quran isn't the finest, most precise, or richest piece of Arabic literature; it is. What I'm trying to say is it makes no sense to consider the Quran on its own a whole different form of te language, reasons stated above.

Comparing between the two quotations above, you actually are contradicting yourself.

Like I said above, I meant in the first quote that the usage of Arabic, the figurative language, the rich yet comprehensible language and examples, and its telling of الغيب (events in the past or future no one knew then that only God knew) is what surprised them.

In the second quote I'm just saying that, unlike now, people wouldn't need تفسير or anything to understand the Quran; the words and vocabulary used in it was nothing new. It's just the usage of Arabic, the expressions, etc that made it unmatchable.

Again, I mean in NO way that ANYTHING or any text is like the Quran; I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to consider it a whole form of language on its own.

[Calia Archer 12]

There IS a decent number of people who know Arabic well enough to understand the Quran without reading تفسير whatsoever. It's not like the Quran came down with words that never existed before. They were words that existed, expressions that existed, and the very few new religious terms in the Quran were derived from words that existed before that. What, did God send a book with new unclear words no one that time had ever heard of? NO. The meaning was very clear to Arabs than because that was the language they spoke. In the Quran, countless times, it says ((آيات بينات)) about the Quran's verses, meaning they are clear to understand and yet are rich and nothing could match them. Plus, if what you're calling MSA and CA are different things, how come there's a single word, فصحى, for them in Arabic?

Only in the Quran can you find rich language? You really should read poetry. Of course in NO WAY do I mean that there is anything richer than the Quran, it's just there's A LOT of poetry before, during, and after the prophet's life. And it is said about the prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم that he ((أوتي جوامع الكلم)), and 'Aisha رضي الله عنها once said something that meant "he spoke in very simple language that really anyone could understand".

The إعجاز in the Quran isn't the individual words themselves; they existed beforehand, and like I said previously any other terms were derived from previously-existing words. It's the way the words perfectly fit together, the way they were used. And, unlike poetry, there was no ضرورة شعرية WHATSOEVER to make the Quran rhyme when it did. The way it told of stories of people or prophets many centuries or millenniums ago that know one or few had heard of before is also called إعجاز, and the way it sometimes told of the future, and the way any scientific information in it is 100% true, though people never scientifically proved it until MUCH afterwards.

-Lexis: Of course, people's فصحى language has weakened because of the very common use of عامية (colloquial Arabic). But if you go back to old literature, you'll find lots of vocabulary used that is also used in the Quran. Also, though this doesn't exactly count, some خطباء might use language from the Quran, or take expressions from it.

-Stylistics: I have nothing against that; it IS, of course, the finest piece of literature by far, and no piece of literature could surpass the Quran.

My argument here isn't that the Quran isn't the finest, most precise, or richest piece of Arabic literature; it is. What I'm trying to say is it makes no sense to consider the Quran on its own a whole different form of te language, reasons stated above.

Like I said above, I meant in the first quote that the usage of Arabic, the figurative language, the rich yet comprehensible language and examples, and its telling of الغيب (events in the past or future no one knew then that only God knew) is what surprised them.

In the second quote I'm just saying that, unlike now, people wouldn't need تفسير or anything to understand the Quran; the words and vocabulary used in it was nothing new. It's just the usage of Arabic, the expressions, etc that made it unmatchable.

Again, I mean in NO way that ANYTHING or any text is like the Quran; I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to consider it a whole form of language on its own.

Please pay attention to the word: Nowadays. I'm speaking about now, because the whole comparison is between "Modern Standard Arabic" and "Classical Arabic".

The language of Qur'an is classified "Classical" because it's considered as ancient. Whereas, the written or formal language, which is used nowadays is classified "Modern Standard" because of the development it took with the passing of time through the years.

So what I want to reach in the end is that nowadays, reading a holy story in a book is not like when you read that story in Qur'an. Period

[snowflake 41]

Definitely not. No story can be told like it was on the Quran.

AAAH. My point here is that it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO CLASSIFY THE QURAN AS A FORM OF LANGUAGE ON ITS OWN LIKE YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR FIRST POST HERE. Reasons mentioned in previous posts.

Both are called فصحى. And there probably isn't a word for that in English.

Like always, in this case I'm sick of arguing because I'm pretty sure I'm right. XD (I'm being sarcastic here)

Argument closed.

[Calia Archer 12]

In the second quote I'm just saying that, unlike now, people wouldn't need تفسير or anything to understand the Quran

I would like you to restate "Reasons mentioned in previous posts" but without mixing between the ancient times and now, because you said yourself in the quote above of yours "unlike now" which means nowadays we need interpretations-تفسير in order to understand Qur'an better. Therefore, Modern (Standard-فصحى) Arabic is not like Classical Arabic. Of course they are both standard (فصحى) but the reason why I classified them is mentioned above.

 

Lexis: Of course, people's فصحى language has weakened because of the very common use of عامية (colloquial Arabic). But if you go back to old literature,

 

Your whole argument was comparing between the Qur'an's language and people's language at that time, which isn't what I've been talking about the whole time.

So please understand, or restate your reasons above if you're not convinced yet.

Of course I'm not arguing here, I'm just trying to be clear with you so that i can understand what you want. There's been misunderstanding here because your reasons are based on something I wasn't arguing about.

 

P.S: I read your posts over and over again carefully in order to understand what you want, so please do the same because you didn't understand me.

[snowflake 41]

^Sure.

What I was trying to get to is that you said Classic Arabic is only found in the Quran, which I do not think is true.

Nowadays, sure, it's true that فصحى has changed greatly. But there are people who study Arabic or religion who know what you're calling "Classic Arabic" very well and are able to use it. So I think that "Modern Standard Arabic" is just a weaker build of فصحى, while "Classic Arabic" is the more original, stronger, and rarer one nowadays.

So I guess I can understand if they were regarded more like branches of فصحى.

[Calia Archer 12]

Thank you. Now we reached a sharing point.

And if you want to say فصحى in English, you can use "standard". It's the best word to explain that (in case if someone asks you about it ^^)

Thanks

[snowflake 41]

^Oh. Thank you.

[al-mousawi 1]

سناوفليك وكودو ران-سان... عمل رائع

[anonymously anonymous 34]

I would like to help those who are interested too, because I am an arab.

[Green Ghost 0]

سلام

اسمي زهراء و انا من استرالية

i just saw this forum and im thinking way to go!!!

glad to know that people want to learn arabic.

 

im not the best when it comes to rules but i am a fluent speaker of this language....

if you have any questions just ask!!!

[C O N A N 0]

جميل جدًا ومجهود مبارك إن شاء الله في نشر لغتنا  
 

[melody.wild.no.1 0]

hey im from Australia as well nice to meet you lol ;p

[bnnoo 0]

Hi..

I am arabic too, nice to meet you both

I am syrian girl

السلام عليكم

انا عربية ايضا، سعيدة بلقائكم

انا فتاة سورية

[alyeyad 0]

.................................