File 818-824: Mystery Train (NO SPOILER)

[Black Demon 466]

THIS THREAD will be used to discuss the ENGLISH ONLY VERSION. In other words, if you only read early spoilers or the Chinese scanlation and wish to discuss them, this is NOT the right place for you !

RULES OF THE ENGLISH ONLY NO SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD:

1. DO NOT POST any kind of spoiler involving the case (Pictures, Texts, Information, Full Scans...) of any language. Even posting spoilers in spoiler boxes is not allowed.

2. Please DO NOT reveal, give hints or talk about any information or event that has not yet happened in the English releases in this thread.

Q&A:

1. Why is this whole thing necessary ?

A: Click here.

2. Can I join the discussion in the other thread as well ?

A: Of course you can. HOWEVER, as mentioned in the rules above, you MUST NOT reveal, give hints or talk about ANYTHING that spoils in this thread if you do.

[Miss Smiles 105]

Ah! I love the recent one.

[mabel 59]

Ah! I love the recent one.

I agree. Finally, it seemed a BO case hasn't appeared for a while.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

So here are my thoughts on 818. No spoilers for 819 were used for this. (As in I have not looked at them nor have any idea what they are.)

Index - not a spoiler

People to look for

Assumptions about disguises:

Definitely on the train because the plot demands it

Maybe on the train

Possibly on the train

No evidence for being on the train, but may show up later

Recurring Character Observations and Evaluations

Assumptions:

Characters

Not sure if involved yet….

Suspect Observations and Evaluations

General Notes and Literary References

Suspects

Case Evaluation

What’s going on? Someone’s room is wrong.

The train is intentionally set up to make carriage confusion and cabin switching easy.

About the train

People’s movements

The Agasa cabin letter

The murder in “Cabin 7B”

The chase and aftermath

The second letter

My current thoughts

Case Resolution

Black Organization

What do Gin and Vermouth mean?

What is Scar Akai up to?

How is Bourbon going to be caught?

Ideas for the climax at the end.

---

People to look for

Assumptions about disguises:

Rules 2 and 3 are based on the Vermouth arc.

1: The usual theories: Okiya is Akai, Scar Akai is Amuro.

2: Characters who have been disguising as someone will be using the same disguise as they were previously because it would be confusing to switch it up at the end. (I am a bit hesitant about all the theories where people are disguised as characters other than the usual ones they've been doing the whole time because it breaks the pattern Gosho has been setting up.)

3: Extra people disguising are OK as long as it is not the predetermined ones changing.

It would be unusual and confusing for characters to be disguising as people they weren’t.

Definitely on the train because the plot demands it

Sera: seen in 8B with Sonoko, Ran, and Kogoro.

Scar Akai: Seen leaving a D room in an upper level cabin.

Amuro: Presumably as Scar Akai. He may show up as himself later. Guest is possible, but staff also works because of Amuro’s past in being staff. Also Amuro shows up on the poster.

Okiya: Not seen yet. I have a feeling he might turn up in the next chapter or two because it wasn’t necessary to cram him in 818. If Okiya doesn't turn up in the next two chaps, then I will start wondering if he is in disguise. Also he shows up on the poster.

Maybe on the train

Okiya’s lady: the woman who was at Shinichi’s house who left a hair tie and some lipstick is possibly on the train. We don’t have enough clues who she is and Gosho would not have had her appear if she wasn’t relevant. Because we haven’t seen anything of her until now, this is the last chance she has to be relevant. Theories for her identity as far as I am concerned are Yukiko, Fusae Campbell Kinoshita (Agasa’s love – see Chek’s theories or her wiki page), Kir. Other theories worth mentioning that I have less confidence in are Akai/Sera’s mom, Jodie, or a third party.

Possibly on the train

Vermouth: If Vermouth does Scar Akai’s makeup, then she may be on train to help. She could have also been at the station.

Other Black Organization agents: It would make sense for the Organization to consider sending other agents besides Bourbon and maybe Vermouth as contingency and/or in preparation for whatever plan they intends do to get Sherry later if Bourbon (and Vermouth) fail to capture her later.

No evidence for being on the train, but may show up later

FBI: As far as we know they don’t know about the video so wouldn’t know to board. On the other hand, there is the possibility Kir could have tipped them off somehow.

Gin and Vodka: Based on what Gin said, it sounds like they will not be on the train, but they may show up later. Nagoya where the disembarking will take place is a good guess because they want to entrap Sherry.

---

Recurring Character Observations and Evaluations

Assumptions:

1: The usual theories: Okiya is Akai, Scar Akai is Amuro is Bourbon, Sera is a good guy and Akai’s sister.

Characters

Kogoro

8B – first class car

Physical appearance: grey tie suit

Personal effects: lighter, cigarettes, no visible luggage

Ring: Ring on right hand ring finger.

Kogoro is someone in disguise? No clear support for this theory so far. Handedness is okay it seems: pulls cigarette using left hand (happens offhand in prior instances), light with lighter in right.

Not seen later on train in 818. Where is he? He probably wanted to smoke, and there may be a designated spot on the train for that. He may go off to smoke later if he isn’t doing it now. The other option is the bar car for booze and ladies.

Ran

8B – first class car

Physical appearance: Striped blouse and short skirt

Personal effects: No visible luggage

Ring: right hand ring finger

Ran is someone in disguise? No clear support for this theory so far.

In 8B room with Sera and Sonoko, having tea.

Sonoko

8B – first class car

Physical appearance: grey dress, headband, high socks

Personal effects: No visible luggage

Ring: right hand ring or index finger I think

Sonoko is someone in disguise? No clear support for this theory so far.

She wants to hide a letter for Kaito Kid in cabin 8. She is currently in 8B room with Ran and Sera, having tea.

Agasa

6D – “normal” car

Physical appearance: Jacket, collared shirt, pants. Initially wearing hat on platform but removed later.

Personal effects: duffel bag, snacks for the DB

Ring: Not visible

Agasa is someone in disguise? No clear support for this theory so far.

Sera

?? - In 8B room with Ran and Sonoko, but from the way she talked about visiting on page 15, it sounds like she might be in another room…

Physical appearance: fuzzy collar jacket, over shirt, pants. Initially wearing usual brim hat on platform but removed later in room.

Personal effects: no luggage visible.

Ring: Not visible, not able to make call on right hand

On platform Ai does not give the patented BO reaction but does react to Sera by putting up hood.

In Mouri’s room, she is looking at a card, presumably for the mystery? If so, then Kogoro’s room or Sera’s may have been given a fake card as well for some reason.

Scar Akai

?? – seen leaving a D cabin in a carriage frontwards of 7 or 8

Physical appearance: Fedora, some sort of unusually buttoned high collar suit, slacks. No gloves it seems. The hat is noticeably different; a fedora. Probably changed from cap to fedora because of train’s semiformal dresscode – a cap wouldn’t cut it. Same goes for Scar Akai’s normal jacket.

Personal effects: none visible, no known luggage

Ring: Not visible

Is heading in the direction of the front of the train.

Regarding Scar Akai's scar looking different, Gosho is not very consistent in drawing it, even within a single case.

Conan

6D – “normal” car

Physical appearance: The usual bowtie suit

Personal effects: Assume full compliment of gadgets, no known luggage

Ring: not visible on either hand while running on train

Haibara

6D – “normal” car

Physical appearance: jacket with hood

Personal effects: sick mask (is it the voice changing one?)

Ring: Right hand ring finger, not visible on right hand while running later on train

Ayumi

6D – “normal” car

Physical appearance: frilly dress, headband

Personal effects: no known luggage

Ring: not visible on right hand when running on train

Genta

6D – “normal” car

Physical appearance: overalls?

Personal effects: no known luggage

Ring: not visible on left hand while running on train

Mitsuhiko

6D – “normal” car

Physical appearance: collared shirt and pants

Personal effects: no known luggage

Ring: not visible on train

General comments

It seems most people took the rings off when they got on the train…

------

Not sure if involved yet….

Kaitou Kid

Not likely to show up this case; it would be too complicated. Also the target is a month out. The Mystery of the Blue Train / Death on the Nile anyone?

Vermouth

If Vermouth does makeup for Bourbon, then she may be on train or elsewhere. She probably will need to be in disguise in this case, and may share a room with Bourbon.

Gin and Vodka

Nothing out of ordinary here for them. I don’t think they are going to be on the train although they should show up in the end. More on them later in the Black org section…

---

Suspect Observations and Evaluations

General Notes and Literary References

This case is an obvious homage to Agatha Christie’s Murder on the Orient Express and there are many parallels between the case and suspects and this novel. The name puns listed are courtesy of HADAA. In light of the novel and its conclusion, it would be wise to suspect that multiple suspects that seem unconnected could be culprits, especially because the unusually large number of them. Also, the staff should not be exempt from suspicions. Virtually all the suspects in the novel lied about their identities and roles, so this should be taken into consideration.

All the suspects seem to do this every year and so know each other well enough. Most of the suspects reacted to Kogoro announcing himself. Usually cases with this are ones where all the suspects have something to hide, although they may not necessarily be the murderer.

Suspects

Murobashi Etsuto

HADAA says: Monsieur Bouc (not a suspect)? + Rachett (victim) (rachietto→etto→etsuto→etsuto)

39 ♂– dead???

Cabin 7B (his usual cabin is 8B)

Physical description: a grouchy and fat man, one of the taller of the suspects, light skin, with a high collared outfit. Appears to have removed his jacket when we was shot.

Personal Effects: A light colored briefcase with pockets

Ring: Can’t tell about ring, the picture unclear but doesn’t seem to be on right hand initially. In murder pictures, it doesn’t seem to be on right hand or the thumb-middle of left hand either.

Reacts strongly to Kogoro announcing. Apparently dies in what Conan thinks is 7B.

Noto Taisaku

Colonel Arbuthnot (Colonel=taisa)

52 ♂

Cabin 8A - first class car

Physical description: A big man, with broad face and cheekbones. He has a diagonal scar on his right cheek. Tallest of the suspects. Light skin. He has a beard and mustache. He had thin lines under his eyes. Suit.

Personal Effects: Long, skinny bag over right shoulder with strap on right shoulder.

Ring: not visible in 818

Reacts strongly to Kogoro announcing

8B is Kogoro

Andou Satoru

Count Andrenyi

41 ♂

Cabin 8C - first class car

Physical description: A greasy, slim man with a thin face. Fairly short. Glasses and “Hitler mustache”. Light skin. Tie suit with high collar.

Personal Effects: Very large black briefcase over left shoulder, smaller one over right. A person could almost fit in that big briefcase, although it could not be carried over his shoulder like that. He says it is very heavy and has a large “solid gold” frame inside. It seems like such a thing would be very difficult to carry over one’s shoulder. He seems to be related to art appraisers as he had a painting someone else determined to be a forgery that he was returning to his client.

Ring: Don’t see ring on left hand.

Reacts strongly to Kogoro announcing.

Komino Natsue

Natalia Dragomiroff.

75 ♀

Cabin 8D - first class car

Physical description: A very skinny, old wheelchair bound woman with light wrinkled skin, a hat with feather, and veil. Looks like mourning clothes. Has a chain of pearls with ornate clasp?

Personal Effects: A wheelchair that does not seem to have much space for hiding large things. I don’t see anything unusual about the wheelchair. No visible luggage.

Ring: On right hand ring finger.

Relations: Sumitomo Hiruka is her assistant or is she something else? They share the same room.

Reacts strongly to Kogoro announcing

Sumitomo Hiruka

Hildegarde Schmidt

37 ♀

Cabin 8D - first class car

Physical description: A severe looking woman who is medium tall? Broad shoulders? She has tweaked hair like Rena on sides and curls in back that fall to upper neck. Plain jacket suit.

Personal Effects: No visible luggage.

Ring: Don’t see ring on either hand, but hard to make out

Relations: She is the wheelchair pusher for 75 year old lady from the same room. Is she more to Komino Natsue?

Reacts to Kogoro announcing

Idenami Mari

Mary Debenham

33 ♀

Cabin 8E - first class car

Physical description: A lady-type who seems to be the shortest of the suspects excluding the old lady. She has long curly hair. She is wearing a light colored wide hat, large hoop earrings, a necklace, and a suit.

Personal Effects: No visible luggage.

Ring: not visible in 818

Reacts strongly to Kogoro announcing

Bushy brows conductor

♂

Physical description: Left hand watch, super thick eyebrows, hat and suit. Fairly tall seeming. Gestures with left hand

Personal Effects:

Ring: N/A

Relations: Knows the suspects fairly well since they ride the train every year. He calls them mystery connoisseurs.

If the conductor is the same one, he was seen nearby Scar Akai.

Murderer

Physical description: Black pants, grey hoodie over hat, sunglasses and sick mask, gloves, and shoots right handed. He doesn’t look very thin or fat. Does look like has dark skin, but could be from shade of hood. No reaction from Ai. His physical appearance might be said to mirror Christie character’s description of Ratchett’s attacker (who was incidentally a fabrication) as a small man, with dark skin and a womanish voice. Capable of running and losing the detective boys in the train so he must know the place or have a hiding spot set up.

Personal Effects: Gun, silencer

Ring: unsure

Runs towards front of train.

---

Case Evaluation

What’s going on? Someone’s room is wrong

For full analysis with pretty useful pictures please refer to this handy-dandy personal page on the wiki: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User:Chekhov_MacGuffin/Latest_case

Somehow in the course of things, Agasa and Kogoro wound up in cars that were next to each other rather than with one in between them. This means that someone boarded the wrong cabin, or while the cabin was vacant, a culprit moved their stuff to an adjacent car. It is unclear whether Kogoro or Agasa is the one in wrong cabin. There are four general possibilities...

Agasa's cabin was relocated from 6D to 7D

After the kids were lured from the cabin by the letter, Agasa was lured out as well afterwards and everything was moved from cabin 6D to cabin 7D. Agasa returned, and thought 7D was really 6D. Conan misjudged the cabins and went to Kogoro's 8B by accident, and then saw Agasa coming out of 7D and became confused.

Pros:

Cons: This does not mesh with Conan's evaluation that he went back the right number of rooms to what he thought 7B was.

The DB plunked down a bunch of snacks which would be hard to properly cleanup and move to exact spots.

Agasa was tricked in boarding 7D instead of 6D

Agasa and entourage were tricked into boarding 7D instead of 6D. Since the numbers are on the outside of the carriages, they would have to be distracted somehow or mixed up inside the train before getting to their room. No one visited each other's cabins and noticed the mixup. Kogoro and entourage were lured out. The victim went into 8B and met with the suspect. The detective boys were called. Because the detective boys were supposed to be in 6D, they thought carriage 7 was next to them, which was really carriage 8, and so went to 8B thinking it was 7B. The murder was thus in 8B, Kogoro's room, and not 7B like they thought. The body was then removed after the detective boys left, possibly to the real 7B or 6B (Agasa's intended cabin), and things were cleaned up before Kogoro and entourage returned.

Pros: Conan’s room count would be correct.

Cons: Conan would be unlikely to be taken in by the necessary distraction.

A distraction or confusing move was not mentioned or implied either.

Kogoro was tricked into boarding 7B instead of 8B

Kogoro and entourage were tricked into boarding 7B instead of 8B. Since the numbers are on the outside of the carriages, they would have to be distracted somehow or mixed up inside the train before getting to their room. Kogoro, Sonoko, and Ran were lured out of the cabin, leaving it empty. The victim and a culprit came into the cabin before Conan and the detective boys arrived, and the shooting and chase ensued. Ran and Sonoko then returned to their cabin. Conan then barged in and was mistakenly told he was in 8B.

Pros: Conan’s room count would be correct.

Cons: A distraction or mixing up was not mentioned.

Kogoro's taking over room 8B from the victim was unannounced to the potential culprit, so they would have insider info or be very fast on their feet to pull off a workable distraction ploy especially if the victim was not explicitly cooperating because the victim may attempt to go to 7B too. Also outsiders think Kogoro is intelligent which would make them more wary of failing.

Kogoro's cabin was relocated from 8B to 7B

This version is a bit more complex because there are several possibilities. I strongly recommend referring to the personal wiki page mentioned above (http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User:Chekhov_MacGuffin/Latest_case).

1. The murder happened before the room switch. Kogoro and entourage could be lured out of their 8B cabin before or after the murder. The contents of Kogoro's cabin were then relocated to 7B. The victim's things and body(?) were relocated to another room, possibly the now empty 8B.

2a. The murder happened in the middle of the room switch. Kogoro and entourage were lured into leaving their 8B cabin. A suspect grabbed Kogoro's luggage and took it to 7B and met the victim. A suspect put the luggage in the victim's room. The detective boys arrived and the murder took place. After the detective boys left, a suspect finished the switch by relocating the victim's luggage and the body(?) to another room, possibly the now empty 8B.

2b. The murder happened in the middle of the room switch. Kogoro and entourage were lured into leaving their 8B cabin. The victim who desired 8B instead of 7B perpetrated or helped perpetrate the switching. The victim grabbed Kogoro's luggage and took it to 7B. A suspect helped and then tricked him or took advantage of the situation. The detective boys arrived and the murder took place. After the detective boys left, a suspect finished the switch by relocating the victim's luggage and the body(?) to another room, possibly the now empty 8B.

3a. The murder happened after the room switch. Kogoro and entourage were lured into leaving their 8B cabin. The victim was lured into leaving his 7B cabin. A suspect switched the contents of 7B and 8B. The victim was called back in time for the murder. The detective boys arrived and the murder took place. The victim's body(?) was relocated to another room, possibly the now empty 8B.

3b. The murder happened after the room switch. Kogoro and entourage were lured into leaving their 8B cabin. The victim who desired 8B instead of 7B perpetrated or helped perpetrate the switching of 7B to 8B. A suspect helped and then tricked him or took advantage of the situation. The detective boys arrived and the murder took place. The victim's body(?) was relocated to another room, possibly the now empty 8B.

Pros: Conan’s room count would be correct.

Explains the victim's reaction to the detective boys tromping in.

Cons:

The train is intentionally set up to make carriage confusion and cabin switching easy.

The only way to tell which carriage you are in is to look from the outside, making the cars ambiguous. This is likely plot intentional to make the trick work.

About the train

See the personal wiki page for a diagram of the train: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User:Chekhov_MacGuffin/Latest_case

They are modeled off of the Venice Simplon-Orient-Express: http://www.orient-express.com/web/vsoe/the_train.jsp

The Bell Tree mystery train is a nonstop luxury express from Tokyo to an unknown destination, in this case Nagano, with a mystery feature for the passengers. It runs once a year and has been running for many years. It is owned by Suzuki conglomerate.

There are an unknown number of carriages, but there are at least 8. Each carriage is marked with a number on the side, but not on the inside, so it is unclear which carriage one is in without asking.

Each has 5 rooms lettered A to E with E being more towards the front of the train and A towards the back (right to left ordering). Cabin 8 is a luxury first class car, but 6 and 7 seem not to be although they are “comparable”.

Doors to each cabin feature a key, and chain lock, and a letter plate. The plate could possibly be switched, but I see no evidence for it. The things above door in the hallway are possibly a light for room service?

People’s movements

818

Conan and the DB go from 6D to 7B per the request of the letter

Conan and the DB chase the suspect from 7B towards the front of a train to an unknown carriage.

After talking to the conductor, Conan takes off towards 7B and winds up going to 8B by mistake.

Somewhere between a front carriage and 7B, the DB pass scar Akai leaving a D room. Scar Akai heads towards the front of the train.

Conan and the DB leave 8B and go back towards where 7B should be but are cut off by Agasa leaving 6D.

The Agasa cabin letter

The fake letter sent to room 6D suggests that someone wanted witnesses to see the murder in 7B. The murder waiting for them to enter adds to this hypothesis. It is unclear whether the DB were targeted randomly or specifically; Ran only mentioned they were in car 6 where the suspects could overhear. Kids are easy to dupe which may explain them being targeted. The time was carefully specified at 10 minutes from the drop so the arrival of the children could be controlled if other specifically parts of the trick were delicately timed.

The murder in “Cabin 7B”

Not too many details of 7B room are clear. The door wasn’t chained.

The victim yells at the detective boys not to enter. This is strange because he has a pretty bad personality, so warning people seems unexpected when they have the chance to distract his would be murderer. It could be that the victim didn’t know he was going to be shot right then because he knew the covered murderer and didn’t realize he was in a plot. It could also be that the victim didn’t want the DB to see into the room. Finally, the murderer could have told him he will be killed when people come in, but why wouldn’t the victim attempt to fight back and save himself?

I assume the victim actually died from the gunshots, but until we re-find the body I will reserve judgment because of other Christie novels like Death on the Nile where faked death tricks occurred. Fake gunshots could happen especially since we might see a reference back to Akai’s faked death in this case.

The chase and aftermath

The murderer made the DB run around towards the front of the train and presumably get thoroughly disoriented with their cars. Conan seemed to keep track of how many they had been down however, so he thought he returned to the right 7B room. I am going to guess Conan is likely right. It is likely that the murderer was not counting on Conan being that perceptive so the DB would not be able to identify the room later.

The second letter

Sera is looking at a card in the Mouri room, presumably for the mystery? If so, then Kogoro’s room or Sera’s may have been given a fake card as well for some reason as part of the plan. I am guessing it will be Mouri’s room. If their room was switched, luring them out is necessary and this letter could be the lure.

My current thoughts

More than one person may be involved in this plot, especially if one culprit was running around leading the DB while the other was cleaning up the body. The large number of suspects supports this idea as long as there isn’t a serial murder.

At this stage, I think it is likely Mouri’s room is the one that is wrong, with later switching rather than wrong boarding topping the list. Conan feels he didn’t miscount cars, so it would seem he ran back to the room he originally thought was 7B which is the one with Ran, Sonoko, and Sera in it now.

Other factors in support for Kogoro’s room being the messed up one are: 1) The suspects are also closer to Kogoro’s room and more familiar with it because they have been riding that carriage for years running. 2) The Mouris’ movements are less certain than the DB’s. 3) Kogoro is not in the room, so either he got distracted or left which may indicate some meddling. The second letter Sera has may also be important in this. Kogoro probably wanted to smoke, and there may be a designated spot on the train for that. He may go off to smoke later if he isn’t doing it now. The other option is the bar car for booze and ladies.

If the victim wanted to reclaim his 8B room, he may have been helping his own will-be-murderer with the cabin switch, explaining why he yelled at the detective boys because he was in the middle of doing it and didn’t want them to notice.

Ran and Sonoko had a teaset. Either they room serviced or left to get some. Sera came by later as well so there is also something to look into there.

Kogoro taking over the 8B cabin was unexpected, so the murderer’s plan would have to be adapted on the fly unless the victim agreed to help somehow.

Case Resolution

Sonoko’s hidden letter for Kaitou Kid is likely to be vital to the case because of the room mixup. She wanted to hide it in the first class car 8 for Kid to find. If it isn’t where she expected it will be clear Kogoro’s room was moved.

---

Black Organization

What do Gin and Vermouth mean?

Gin: Yeah... if we can just stop her getting off en route, it’s a jail of moving steel. Just like hunting down deer, if we get her to flee in fear, she will likely expose herself to the barrel of the gun.

Vermouth: You know why I deliberately leaked this information to you, right?

Gin: You don’t want me to interfere until that metal snake has returned to its burrowing hole, right?

Vermouth is asking Gin to delay any attack made on Sherry. This means there is something or someone aboard the train that is important or should not be interfered with. Bourbon is likely, as it would be bad if Gin attempted something like bombs while Bourbon was on board doing his thing. Also because Vermouth made the request, Bourbon is even more likely as he seems to be in cahoots with her and not at all with Gin who needs informing.

What is Scar Akai up to?

He was heading towards the front of the train from an unknown D room. This is the direction away from the action so far, so his goal isn’t clear unless he is looking for someone or checking the place out. This doesn’t necessarily mean the D room was Scar Akai’s. For all we know, he not-so-accidentally barged into someone else’s room to investigate. Agasa is in a D room, although I would think Haibara would notice after the turnaround Scar Akai came out of the room Agasa was in even if she was confused about the rooms. Sera’s room is also unknown at this point, and a possibility.

How is Bourbon going to be caught?

Conan and Haibara are not aware of the Shiho video being sent or seen so everything that will happen is going to mostly be a surprise to them.

It is possible Amuro will get hoisted on his own unique cap, which Conan does know about in connection to Scar Akai. Amuro would have to show up in person or this to work, either as a guest or staff. Also Okiya has yet to make a move.

Ideas for the climax at the end.

Bombs are classic BO technique although they have been done before with the Shinkansen case.

If we look at what Gin said literally about hunting techniques, they might try to prevent Shiho from leaving the train and then look for her. This would work by loading the Nagano platform with disguised Black Org agents of any level, or setting up snipers, or something like that, whose aura will terrify Shiho into staying on the train. Then the Black Org will send people aboard to check every room until they find her, just like hunters flushing animals from the underbrush. This would make for some pretty sweet drama like the locker scene.

Ai is sick so another antidote may be in the works….

[75aichan 49]

*Is impressed by Chekhov wall of text*

Bombs are classic BO technique although they have been done before with the Shinkansen case.

If we look at what Gin said literally about hunting techniques, they might try to prevent Shiho from leaving the train and then look for her. This would work by loading the Nagano platform with disguised Black Org agents of any level, or setting up snipers, or something like that, whose aura will terrify Shiho into staying on the train. Then the Black Org will send people aboard to check every room until they find her, just like hunters flushing animals from the underbrush. This would make for some pretty sweet drama like the locker scene.

Ai is sick so another antidote may be in the works….

I guess (and I hope) this is what's going to happen.^^

I wonder how Sherry will escape if the BO send many members to hunt her.

Maybe the FBI will be there after all.

[dcfan4869 18]

What an awesome analysis of the case Chek!!! +1

And about the switch of Mouri's room being highly possible rather than Agasa's, you should also note how all of the snacks and bags are perfectly in tact in room 6D. Like the labels are still facing the right way and the placements in regards to each other are consistent. It's most likely that Mouri's room was switched since we haven't seen how his room looked before the incident.

[angelranchan 56]

wow oh whoah~ +1

as I thought..maybe bombs may be involve

Conan's ring.. cannot base on the cover? the cover of file 818 is in right..

maybe ???

[Detective Kudo 28]

Edited: (no idea where all the codes came from)hey anyone count the number of cars on the last picture of 818, i believe there are more than 8 cars, counting the food car there should be about 9. which would mean the trick was that no one was ever in their right spots in the first place.

for what i think is suppose to happen...

Gin and Vodka will no doubt be waiting for Sherry after the ride. I'm sure Bourbons job is to get her to pop out in fear so she can be killed. I wouldn't be suprised, for plots sake, f someone ends up using the antidote or changing back somehow.Scar Akai is probably meant to lure Sherry out and will probably capture Seras attention an may reveal he is a fake an be followed up by the real Akai. Using Gins analogy. Some animals wait for their prey to capture its prey. In other words the hunter becomes the hunted and gets caught capturing their own prey. No doubt Kir will assist later on.

By the way: did anyone notice Vermouth's phone changed since the last time we saw her when conan was kidnapped. Back then it looked like she was using an iphone, now it looks more simple. I wonder if she is using multiple phones for maybe different people she may be pretending to be.

[Akazora 293]

Chapter 819 is now out!

My thoughts on events right before Murobashi Etsuto is found dead:

Noto Taisaku --

- seems frustrated as his bell doesn't seem to be working

- difficult to see inside the room, but nothing looks suspicious

- closes door same time as Etsuto

- closes door before Idenami complains about sound

Murobashi Etsuto --

- peeks out of room to see what the commotion is about

- is talking to someone on his cellphone

- holding phone in left hand

- closes door same time as Taisaku

- closes door before Idenami complains about sound

Idenami Mari --

- complains about a sound (cellphone?) from inside her room

- has tea kettle and cup set out on table

- refuses to let conductor inside room

Komino Natsue and Sumitomo Hiroka --

- both exit room just as conductor is distracted by Idenami's sound problem

- head off in opposite direction unnoticed

- difficult to see anything in room

Andou Satoru --

- enters hallways while Idenami is still complaining

- enters hallway asking what's the matter after Komino and Sumitomo seem to have left

- closes door behind him after entering hallway

- difficult to see anything in room

My thoughts on actual discovery of body:

- (pg. 15) [upper left] third link from left on chain seems thinner than rest of the links

- (pg. 15) [bottom left] same link mentioned above is the one that breaks

- teacup set out on table in front of Murobashi, but no kettle is in sight

- teacup seems to be empty and handle is facing right, indicating Murobashi drank from his right hand

- note, gun is also in right hand and that cellphone was used in left hand

- cellphone used previously not visible

- pistol grip seems to be accurate

- a small, black object seems to be on seat opposite to Murobashi

Overall thoughts:

I'm terrible at deductions, so I have absolutely no idea who it could have been. I really doubt Noto and Idenami are the culprits, because they seemed truthfully frustrated at the broken bell and the sound respectively. I'm suspecting Komino and Sumitomo as well as Andou. The two ladies seemed to have cleared the hallways awfully fast, which brings me to suspect they might have entered another room in the hallway. Andou also closes the door to his room and walks toward the conductor and Idenami, which isn't something you'd do if you were just wondering what the commotion was. That's pretty much all I can get from this.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

I have a thought for the trick for the locked room, but not sure who could pull it off (read: haven't thought of it).

Most chain door locks are welded together, and it would take far more than a 7 year old and a teenage girl, no matter how much martial arts she does, to break apart a chain link like that, and with the positioning of the one that broke, I don't think it is a coincidence.

The chain link in the middle of the opening broke, so my theory is that the culprit cut out a chain link, and then used another open link to close the chain up after the crime was committed from the outside. Depending on the gauge of the metal, it could have possibly been done without any tools.

But this is just a possibility...

[Akazora 293]

I have a theory on how Murobashi Etsuto was killed. It's not that good, but here goes...

I'm suspecting the murderer is Andou Satoru. He and Murobashi were planning on doing something that required the conductor not to see them in action. Andou was in Murobashi's room when Noto and his bell caused the first disturbance. I'm not entirely sure why the bell was giving Noto problems to start, but I'm guessing Andou had set it up without telling Murobashi. Just as Andou and Murobashi had called a hidden cellphone in Idenami's room to cause their disturbance, they heard Noto complain with the conductor outside, so Murobashi poked his head out into the hallway to make sure their plan wasn't being disturbed. He told Andou, who was in his room, that everything was fine and that the conductor seemed to make a mistake. This is when Andou committed the murder. Andou had forced the disturbance with Noto and the conductor previously to distract Murobashi enough so he could pull out a silenced pistol. Because they were the only two in the room, it would be difficult for Andou to pull a pistol out of his jacket without Murobashi noticing and putting up a resistance. Now, Andou had the pistol out and was aiming it from behind his back. When Murobashi unexpectedly sat down to the left of Andou, Andou fired the gun. The blood stains on the wall of the room suggest the gun was at a relatively low height compared to Murobashi's head because the blood splattered at an upward angle, and if Andou was aiming from behind his back then that would be possible. As Murobashi was shot, he dropped the cellphone that called Idenami's room on the ground and accidentally disconnected the call. This was why the sound in Idenami's room seemed to stop just before the conductor got to her room. Hastily, to set up the distraction again, Andou called Idenami's room once more to start up the sound. Meanwhile, he placed the gun in Murobashi's right hand to make it seem like a suicide and, when he was sure the conductor was distracted with Idenami's complaints, exited the room with the cellphone in his pocket unnoticed and proceeded to set up the chain in a fashion Kyuu suggested to make it seem like a locked room murder. He quickly entered his room, hearing Conan and the gang approaching, re-exited his room just as the group reached Murobashi's room, and pretended to be concerned with Idenami's problem and that he was in his room the whole time.

That's my not-so-great theory. If anyone has anything to add, feel free. I know I have a lot of holes in my deduction, but it's the best I can do with what we have.

[TML 18]

I have a hunch that regardless of what initially happens to Ai, by the time the dust settles at the end of this arc, she will emerge as a free girl with her secret still safe from Gin, Vodka, and the other high-ranking members of the BO who do not yet know of her current situation. In other words:

-If she is captured, she will (1) escape from captivity, or (2) be rescued by a sympathetic party (as when Conan rescued her from the Haido City Hotel), or (3) be released.

-If she attempts to die deliberately, her attempt will be thwarted by a sympathetic party (this has happened twice, by Conan on the bus and by Ran in front of Vermouth).

-If someone discovers her secret, that person will either be removed from the picture entirely (i.e. killed or captured, like Pisco) or become a confidant (like Vermouth).

Does anyone else share this hunch?

[User 4869 100]

I have a hunch that regardless of what initially happens to Ai, by the time the dust settles at the end of this arc, she will emerge as a free girl with her secret still safe from Gin, Vodka, and the other high-ranking members of the BO who do not yet know of her current situation. In other words:

-If she is captured, she will (1) escape from captivity, or (2) be rescued by a sympathetic party (as when Conan rescued her from the Haido City Hotel), or (3) be released.

-If she attempts to die deliberately, her attempt will be thwarted by a sympathetic party (this has happened twice, by Conan on the bus and by Ran in front of Vermouth).

-If someone discovers her secret, that person will either be removed from the picture entirely (i.e. killed or captured, like Pisco) or become a confidant (like Vermouth).

Does anyone else share this hunch?

Could not happen any other way!

I believe she will again take antidote to separate herself from her friend. She may not seek death aggressively but if she going to face any BO she want to come out as Sherry. This will prove (to BO) that Boubon and Vermouth's information is not false (Mean Sherry did get on the train and Vermouth saw her, although Ai don't know this.) I don't sure what will happen to Amuro (under theory that he is Bourbon). He should not dies yet because his plot with Wataru Date is not yet come to play and he's quite popular and can be a new fan favorite.

[Oga Junior 0]

i cant read this until the end especially i skip the case evolution and read the case related to bo, good analysis

[Miss Smiles 105]

I've been avoiding spoiler. i know you'll be surprised, I'm returning, I find my old reason is stupid because I was afraid I'll be distracted, but it's not the case when I'm working while reading. I just don't have confidence if my mind is here while I working, but, I admit I was surprised; it's not that serious because recently I found out I can hold many plates while writing poetry and fan fiction. I can't believe myself can still hold on.

Anyway, back to case, I'll stick to spoiler free for hunger of English version. So many things happen in case, I've perk up a bit and able to concentrate during work, DC did increase my IQ. XD I guess that's reason I able to do things effectively in real life. Credit to Gosho.

[Black Demon 466]

820 and 821 English are BOTH out, have fun discussing !

[Uncle Sporkums 123]

After holding out for a while, I pretty much agree now with the theory that the mysterious lady is Yukiko. She must've helped Shuichi with his disguise and as someone mentioned, she's either figured out or has been told that Scar Akai is her old friend Sharon and she addressed her as such in the unheard dialogue which surprised her.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Vermouth who is currently Scar Akai this time around (Scar Akai needs a voice this time I guess so it had to go this way) reacting to the hat lady makes Yukiko extremely likely to be the hat lady. It looks like the lady might have said something to Scar Akai/Vermouth too, and Yukiko never got the opportunity to call out Vermouth for the fake death of Sharon/friendship betrayal/whatever you want to call it in the Vermouth arc.

It's good to see confirmation that Sera is Akai's sister and Elena's tapes come back around again.

I'll try to work out the case if real life doesn't keep demolishing me... I wonder if it wasn't a shot from the door while the room was locked, negating the need to go in the room at all. It seems we have enough info to solve it now because of Conan's smile.

I hope Sera doesn't have a brain meltdown now and forget about her suspicions of Okiya. Also Vermouth is going to have to pretend to be left handed.

I assume Okiya mailed Haibara pretending to be Vermouth to flush her out and drag her off to safety. If Haibara tries to take the antidote now again, things could get really crazy. It would remove the risk of having Amuro run into her as she is and ruin the child disguise, but paints a massive target on her back. There is also the question of Ran and the db running into her too. I am not going be surprised if she takes it anyway because of how she reacted in the Vermouth arc and the way things are going now.

[Uncle Sporkums 123]

Vermouth who is currently Scar Akai this time around (Scar Akai needs a voice this time I guess so it had to go this way) reacting to the woman would make Yukiko extremely likely. It looks like the lady might have said something to him/her too, and Yukiko never got the opportunity to call out Vermouth for the fake death of Sharon/friendship betrayal/whatever you want to call it in the Vermouth arc. It's good to see confirmation that Sera is Akai's sister and Elena's tapes come back around again.

I assume Okiya mailed Haibara pretending to be Vermouth to flush her out and drag her off to safety.

Yeah, I agree that that's why Vermouth has to play him this time. That's right, I wonder if anything more will be seen of Yukiko and Sharon's confrontation soon, or if we'll have to wait 50 more files.

Nice idea about Okiya sending Ai the Vermouth message.

[Black Demon 466]

What I don't understand is why would Vermouth be disguising as Scar Akai. I just cannot think of any suitable motive. Wouldn't it be more convenient for her if she just played the role of some random passenger ? Unless she intentionally wants to face Sera and fool her but the purpose of which is also unclear if that's the case.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

What I don't understand is why would Vermouth be disguising as Scar Akai. I just cannot think of any suitable motive. Wouldn't it be more convenient for her if she just played the role of some random passenger ? Unless she intentionally wants to face Sera and fool her but the purpose of which is also unclear if that's the case.

Normally Amuro would be doing it, but this time I guess they decided to give Scar Akai a voice which only Vermouth could do. Perhaps they are starting to execute a use-Masumi-to-lure-out-Akai-and-therefore-Sherry type plan which requires Scar Akai to have a voice rather than be mute? Vermouth can't really do everything as she wants because Amuro, who is presumably more loyal to the Black Org than she, is watching. Vermouth has to pretend like she doesn't know Ai is Shiho and concoct a plan looking for a 18 year old.

[leokiko 2]

Why is the scar different then?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Why is the scar different then?

I still chalk it up to art variation, but if you insist upon it being different you could say Vermouth did it differently applying the mask to herself versus when she did it for Amuro.

[leokiko 2]

I still chalk it up to art variation, but if you insist upon it being different you could say Vermouth did it differently applying the mask to herself versus when she did it for Amuro.

There's no problem on being different, since there is no one on the train that has seen Scar Akai(Amuro), but randomly changing like this is annoying. Your two points are pretty vague, I hope Gosho at least explains it.

[75aichan 49]

I assume Okiya mailed Haibara pretending to be Vermouth to flush her out and drag her off to safety. If Haibara tries to take the antidote now again, things could get really crazy. It would remove the risk of having Amuro run into her as she is and ruin the child disguise, but paints a massive target on her back. There is also the question of Ran and the db running into her too. I am not going be surprised if she takes it anyway because of how she reacted in the Vermouth arc and the way things are going now.

That's what I thought too,since he said he is able to read all her moves,so it wouldn't be surpriseing if it was Okiya.

Anayway I really hope Ai will take the antidote,that will spice up the things even more,and it's better for her,in order to not involve her friends and to hide the de-aging effects of APTX.I can't wait to see Gin hunting Sherry with Okiya around^^ I wonder if the BO will find Okiya's real identity...if that's the case Kir will be in danger.

Concerning Elena's tapes,I have to say I'm a bit disappointed,I was hoping something bigger...after reading the file I had a hope that Ai's mom could be alive and hidden somewhere in order to achieve the drug,but I don't think that would happen.

Now we only know that the drug is called Silver bullet,maybe that will be useful in the future.

oh and seeing Ai crying makes me sad I really feel bad for her...