Bourbon

[Aeyra 260]

Do you think Ai has been in the presence of Bourbon yet? I haven't noticed her 'shaking' for a while.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Do you think Ai has been in the presence of Bourbon yet? I haven't noticed her 'shaking' for a while.

She's flipped around Okiya, but hasn't been around scar Akai yet so we don't know how she would react to him. She was conveniently written out of the Teito Bank heist (she and Agasa were the only ones stuck outside away from the gaze of scar Akai).

[Glass Heart 34]

I have read the Red Shirts Case again and something strucks me: Subaru Okiya and Scar Akai might be the same person in this chapter.

The fact is that both of them have shown great deductions ability. And there is also some strange elements which could be explain that way:

-Subaru resolved partially the case. But Scar Akai was the one who mailed it to Kogoro.

-Subaru saw the Black Organization members. Scar Akai didn't. Nonetheless, when he went outside, he just mocked them and Gin seemed to identify him as Bourbon.

-Scar Akai disappeared in the crowd. The easiest way Scar Akai could escape Chianti was by returning inside the market (if he goes the opposite way of the crowd, he would have been easy to pinpoint). More interestingly, at the end, Subaru was aware of what Conan had done.

But, in that case, how would Subaru and Scar Akai appeared in the same place at first ? One of the strangest thing of this story was Vermouth's late appearance at the scene, Aoyama's way to tell us she couldn't be Scar Akai.

So, the main question is "Who is really Scar Akai ?".

"There were showing some videos on the news, and someone I used to know happened to appear. Actually, I happened to see him on that floor. Unfortunately, it seems he wasn't who I thought he was, so I didn't talk to him. I've known his face for a very long time. There's no way I could be mistaken."

This sentence implies that:

-Scar Akai might have let himself be filmed "on purpose" (if he really wanted to be invisible, he would have been). Like he wanted to be shown by someone.

-Scar Akai isn't who Subaru thought he was. So he isn't really either the real Akai or Bourbon, and still Gin seems to identify him as Bourbon (but not as Akai).

In fact, I think "Scar Akai" might have been Vermouth in disguise (especially given her short and strange appearance on the scene). It could have be Vermouth's bait to try to identify Bourbon (which keeps his activities a secret even from the other members), and it would work given his hate of Akai and his belief he wasn't dead.

Subaru would have come near the bank to confirm Akai's survival, only to discover it's not the real deal (Vermouth). And he would have been caught in the hostage case, resolving partially the case.

Then, there would have been a change between identities, with Subaru becoming Scar Akai in order to mock the other BO members, while Vermouth stopped Jodie, before she changed back to her usual appearance and met Gin (with Subaru as Scar Akai being fully aware of what she was doing and giving her the little time she needed to return to being Vermouth again and meeting Gin).

Then, "Scar Akai" would have disappeared in the crowd, only for Subaru to appear again in front of Conan.

If this theory is right, Subaru Okiya might really be Bourbon trying to spy on Conan and Haibara, and all that Scar Akai's plot would be Aoyama's way to try to confuse the readers about who is who.

PS: And Sherlock Holmes is also known to be a master of disguise, so maybe Subaru (who is compared to Holmes) could disguise himself without Vermouth's help.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I have read the Red Shirts Case again and something strucks me: Subaru Okiya and Scar Akai might be the same person in this chapter.

But, in that case, how would Subaru and Scar Akai appeared in the same place at first ?

That's the main problem here, along with incidentals like they appear to be oppositely handed.

In fact, I think "Scar Akai" might have been Vermouth in disguise (especially given her short and strange appearance on the scene)...

In fact, I think "Scar Akai" might have been Vermouth in disguise (especially given her short and strange appearance on the scene). It could have be Vermouth's bait to try to identify Bourbon (which keeps his activities a secret even from the other members), and it would work given his hate of Akai and his belief he wasn't dead...

Then, there would have been a change between identities, with Subaru becoming Scar Akai in order to mock the other BO members, while Vermouth stopped Jodie, before she changed back to her usual appearance and met Gin (with Subaru as Scar Akai being fully aware of what she was doing and giving her the little time she needed to return to being Vermouth again and meeting Gin).

Then, "Scar Akai" would have disappeared in the crowd, only for Subaru to appear again in front of Conan.

The timing makes this impossible for two people to play the three roles. When Okiya knocks over Jodie, scar Akai is just going outside. Scar Akai is now stuck in the crowd in front of the door. Before scar Akai can squirm out of the crowd, Vermouth pulls up in front of Gin's car while scar Akai is still in the crowd with Chianti watching him through the scope. If Vermouth is disguised as Okiya, in that too short span of time she couldn't manage to leave the same door and push through the crowd, take off all her disguise where she couldn't be seen, hop on a motorbike, and get over to Gin. Furthermore, she would have to put all her disguise back on somewhere privately, ditch the motorbike, get back through crowd, and figure out Conan's gift card plan, in a very short span of time. Even if the timing made this possible, why bother taking all the disguise off just to chat with Gin for a second? Couldn't she have called him during the red shirts case?

All these disguise changes you are proposing aren't going to be very private. Also, Vermouth and scar Akai couldn't anticipate that there would be a messy case that would get them trapped, so why would they be carrying (multiple?) spares of disguises of each other? It seems too contrived to be possible, unless they were somehow psychic and knew the red shirts case was going to happen.

[phantomlady1101 59]

I also believe Bourbon is Saburu Okiya, I believe in Haibara's feeling!!!!

[Akazora 293]

Whomever Bourbon is, I'd say his identity will be revealed really soon (in the manga). We're approaching the 800 chapter mark, and that's usually when there's a serious BO arc. I don't think Gosho would hold the revelation of his identity for too long, so chapter 800ish sounds about right.

But if I had to guess someone, it would be scar Akai.

[tengaku squared 291]

But if I had to guess someone, it would be scar Akai.

My guess points to scar Akai, Okiya, or Sera.

[Akazora 293]

My guess points to scar Akai, Okiya, or Sera.

I doubt that he's Sera.

So many people love Sera already, it would be a crime for her to be a BO member. Sort of like how Gosho must bring Akai back to life soon, or else everyone will hate him.

[Vermouths best 0]

I'm completely alone in my theory (which means it's probably incorrect, heh) but it seems like every time Haibara starts shaking, a police person seems to be confidently around. My guess is that Bourbon has nothing to do with Subaru Okiya or Scar Akai and is, instead, a policeman.

[Glass Heart 34]

It could simply be that the Black Organization is in fact part of another organization, which could confuse her.

For example, if what we know as the Black Organization is the "assassination unit" of the KGB (it's just an example), and if Subaru is a KGB agent of another unit who is hunting down the BO unit which could have turned renegade, the simple fact that he has the same "aura" (as a KGB agent) that the BO could explain why Haibara's senses are confused.

But in fact, I begin to wonder if Bourbon is not Akai himself (who would have infiltrated the BO again in a fake identity). It's strange that he appears some time after Akai's supposed death.

[Akazora 293]

Glass Heart, I love your theory! That's a really nice theory. The only problem is if that's the case then we have to try and see if the "Boss" is the boss of just that small unit or the whole company in general.

[TheBlackTac 70]

I believe that Subaru is Bourbon.

[tengaku squared 291]

I believe that Subaru is Bourbon.

Chek won't like that...see what happened when IdentityUnknown suggested the same thing:

IdentityUnknown is hit with a rancid halibut for saying Okiya is Bourbon!

Convert, or the fish beating will continue!

[IdentityUnknown 216]

Chek won't like that...see what happened when IdentityUnknown suggested the same thing:

...

You just have to post that everywhere, don't you? And I'm not really afraid of fish.

[Glass Heart 34]

I believe that Subaru is Bourbon.

Aoyama suggests too much Subaru to be Bourbon for it to be true (the bottle of Bourbon and all that). Nevertheless, the character knows clearly much more than he tells.

As for Scar Akai, I think he couldn't be Bourbon either for the same reason: Gin suggests too strongly he is Bourbon for it too be true.

And there is also some strange elements if Scar Akai is Bourbon:

-The "I hate X so I take his face" has already been done by Aoyama in a major case, and I can't depict him repeating himself on the trick of another major case.

-The "almost" complete deductions. If Scar Akai is Bourbon (the Holmes of the BO), then why Aoyama would make his deductions "almost" complete ? Given the context (the case was already solved when we learn about these deductions), it would have been much more shocking and threatening if his deductions would have perfectly matched Conan's.

And there is also one very important element: Bourbon is a new member of the BO, but for some reason he hated Akai prior to that.

But there is also another possibility that I never really considered but which could still exist: Bourbon and Scar Akai might be a trap set-up by Gin to determine for sure if Kir is not a mole, to ensure that she didn't fake Akai's death and that she didn't tip the FBI.

I mean Bourbon would really be Scar Akai and having good detective reasoning, but he would in fact be under Gin's direct orders (or at least supposed to be, because he could turned out to be more independant that Gin envisioned, such explaining his attitude at the end of the Beika Store bombing case). Gin seems to imply they don't get along, but he might lie even to his other fellow BO members to make it more true.

And, even in that case, Scar Akai could still really turn out to be Akai himself (he could have joined the BO again in a fake identity), Conan and him setting an even bigger trap to Gin.

[Miss Smiles 105]

well I have theory and guesswork:

after I read about the case of red shirt's message, I realize the blonde speak in riddle about prey he saw got away. After Akai is known as dead, Takagi does have his finger print and so do Shinichi's. My guess, Conan plan to draw police to Black Organization, or he wouldn't accept Subaru to live in his house.

I also feel Akai play role of Bourbon, Bourbon play Akai. The message Jodie received is from fake Akai, I believe it's the trick to get FBI in trouble. I think Jodie has been roleplay by Vermouth, plan to ruin FBI by associating herself with Bourbon but halt by real Akai. I think the real intention is Bourbon want to confuse Gin Akai is alive, and somehow Gin stick to his own word Akai is dead and spare Rena's life.

I believe Conan deliberately slipped to show a bit of Shinichi's side, I think he's up to his sleeve. I think he suspecting Takagi know his identity, but with his bowtie he somehow confused Takagi. I think it's his agenda, to make himself known in front of Akai and Takagi, and directing here and there to get Black Organization recognized by the police and FBI. And it lead to event, something like police car chase or action. I think Conan going to pull out his stunt soon, and real Akai may make appearance with his blonde hair. I think Akai did dye his hair to make himself believable.

This is what I thought, and it's my guess work.

[IdentityUnknown 216]

Discuss Bourbon in here. What's your theory on this person?

My theory is that "Scar Akai" is Bourbon, and he's trying to lure out Shuu, who he knows is still alive, by pretending to look like him and hoping that he'll notice. Now, this may mean that Okiya is... the real Shuu? I don't know, that's just what I think.

What do you guys think?

What do I think? I think Chek would kill me if I said that Okiya = Bourbon.

Super-mod-power-abuse-to-reply-to-comments-without-bumping-the-discussion-with-offtopic-banter!!!: Chekhov says I would simply hit you with more fish.

O.o

You get my point.

To be truthful *glances at Chekhov* I really haven't got a solid thesis. *Chekhov glares* In fact, I think it's perfectly possible that Scar Akai is Bourbon *Chekhov smiles*. But that's all I'm saying. *Chekhov is (somewhat) satisfied*

[Akazora 293]

What do I think? I think Chek would kill me if I said that Okiya = Bourbon.

She would.

I have no real theory for Bourbon, but something tells me he might be Scar Akai.

I'm sure it's probably someone else, maybe someone that hasn't even appeared yet.

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

Bourbon is Okiya

Okiya is Akai

So I think he joined again the BO to get more info

[KudoKun18 6]

^ Nice theory. But, do you think the Black Organization will fall for the same trick twice? For me, they are too witty to be fooled by the same man twice. Well, not if Akai is really that damn good.

Aoyama really made the "guessing game" interesting by making both Akai and Bourbon connected very well to the drink Bourbon, both being their favorite.

Maybe, your theory has something to do with the fact that Akai loved to drink Bourbon. And once again, he joined the Black Organization and in some ways, named after that alcohol. His aim is to once again spy for the FBI.

But, what's a bit complicated about your theory is the fact that Akai is still alive and is still "Akai" by the time Kir revealed that B.O. activated a new member in the name of Bourbon. I don't think B.O. would be that foolish to fall for the same trap Akai did, whole they are on a hot pursuit of Rena, who is under the watch of FBI, who still had Akai by then.

I'll stick to the famous theory. Akai is disguised as Okiya SUbaru. Conan knows it as this was part of he and Akai's plan. Scar Akai, which I strongly believe is Bourbon, is trying to pinch the nerve, so to speak, of the FBI and make things complicated for them.

If this theory is indeed true, I would love to see who's plan will succeed, Conan and Akai's plan or Bourbon's witty plan?

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

^ Nice theory. But, do you think the Black Organization will fall for the same trick twice? For me, they are too witty to be fooled by the same man twice. Well, not if Akai is really that damn good.

Aoyama really made the "guessing game" interesting by making both Akai and Bourbon connected very well to the drink Bourbon, both being their favorite.

Maybe, your theory has something to do with the fact that Akai loved to drink Bourbon. And once again, he joined the Black Organization and in some ways, named after that alcohol. His aim is to once again spy for the FBI.

But, what's a bit complicated about your theory is the fact that Akai is still alive and is still "Akai" by the time Kir revealed that B.O. activated a new member in the name of Bourbon. I don't think B.O. would be that foolish to fall for the same trap Akai did, whole they are on a hot pursuit of Rena, who is under the watch of FBI, who still had Akai by then.

I'll stick to the famous theory. Akai is disguised as Okiya SUbaru. Conan knows it as this was part of he and Akai's plan. Scar Akai, which I strongly believe is Bourbon, is trying to pinch the nerve, so to speak, of the FBI and make things complicated for them.

If this theory is indeed true, I would love to see who's plan will succeed, Conan and Akai's plan or Bourbon's witty plan?

He can fool the BO if he change his personality and disguise as another person

BO wont suspect Okiya as Akai since they already saw in their own eyes that Akai died

so there is 50% possibility that he can fool BO

I think they did not meet Bourbon when he joined and waited for the right time to appear in the BO

so I say Conan gave Akai a voice changer and Akai called the BO and asked if he can join and agreed

then at the time he was assassinated he jumped out of his car and disguise and came to the BO

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

He can fool the BO if he change his personality and disguise as another person

BO wont suspect Okiya as Akai since they already saw in their own eyes that Akai died

so there is 50% possibility that he can fool BO

I think they did not meet Bourbon when he joined and waited for the right time to appear in the BO

so I say Conan gave Akai a voice changer and Akai called the BO and asked if he can join and agreed

then at the time he was assassinated he jumped out of his car and disguise and came to the BO

Akai in disguise might be able to make it through the lower levels, but do you think that he could fool Gin (and Vermouth too) who seems to personally know Bourbon? Gin in particular seems to be good at picking out people in disguises. If Okiya reminds Ran, who only met Akai three times, of someone familiar, isn't it possible he may give people in the BO the same feeling? They might notice he was left handed and put two and two together. I just don't think the executive agents are dumb enough to fall for Akai in disguise.

Also your plan would require Akai to get a codename ridiculously quickly. It would be even more suspicious if some genius guy who hated Akai for some strange reason just happened to appear and then rocketed up the ranks like he knew how to do everything already.

[KudoKun18 6]

Akai in disguise might be able to make it through the lower levels, but do you think that he could fool Gin (and Vermouth too) who seems to personally know Bourbon? Gin in particular seems to be good at picking out people in disguises. If Okiya reminds Ran, who only met Akai three times, of someone familiar, isn't it possible he may give people in the BO the same feeling? They might notice he was left handed and put two and two together. I just don't think the executive agents are dumb enough to fall for Akai in disguise.

Also your plan would require Akai to get a codename ridiculously quickly. It would be even more suspicious if some genius guy who hated Akai for some strange reason just happened to appear and then rocketed up the ranks like he knew how to do everything already.

This is exactly my reply to @Detectie Kaitou.

I mean, they're the notorious Black Organization. If a simple, unconscious-about-the-situation Ran felt something about Okiya, why wouldn't the B.O. feel the same. Plus, there are some glaring similarities about Okiya and Subaru.

About using Conan's voice changer to make look like Akai infiltrated the B.O. once again, as what @Chekjov MacGuffin said, it would be very improbable to get a codename so quickly for Rena to relay the info that fast after he was released by Conan and Akai's plan.

So yeah, I'm still sticking with Akai-is-Okiya-only rule. :grin:

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

So my deductions are wrong

Anyways Ill restick to Scar Akai theory

[KudoKun18 6]

^ Well, we never know. Your "improbable" deduction might be what Aoyama is exactly thinking. ;-)