The Secret Behind Vermouth's Youth!

[Scar Akai 65]

maybe she really took it that can explain why she no that sherry is haibara and conan is shinichi

Yea... That is what a quarter of the DC fans think.

[User 4869 100]

lol. It's really possible that Chris Vineyard killed Sharon so that she can take her place and make it look as if Sharon is Chris though that Sharon is actually her.

Then who kill Jodie's father. Sharon kill and she happen to tell her daughter about that? and use her daughter fingerprint to touch Jodie' father glass without knowing it will survive the fire?

[sroesch 1]

I support the APTX theory too - after all, Vermouth certainly seems to know that Conan is Shinichi... and since none of the other members of the Organization seem to know that, how else would she know unless she herself had gone through the same thing? Also, while Gosho may have said the two are not 'connected', why then does the Phantom Thief keep appearing in DC episodes and movies? And still searching for/stealing large gems (supposedly to keep Pandora from being found by the Organization). I think the BO is looking for immortality - or at least the Boss is - probably wants to be the Criminal Dictator of Earth.

[User 4869 100]

I support the APTX theory too - after all, Vermouth certainly seems to know that Conan is Shinichi... and since none of the other members of the Organization seem to know that, how else would she know unless she herself had gone through the same thing? Also, while Gosho may have said the two are not 'connected', why then does the Phantom Thief keep appearing in DC episodes and movies? And still searching for/stealing large gems (supposedly to keep Pandora from being found by the Organization). I think the BO is looking for immortality - or at least the Boss is - probably wants to be the Criminal Dictator of Earth.

First you shouldn't use movie as reference because it's not canon.

He keep appearing because he's popular, a fan favorite. Doesn't necessary connect to the main plot (didn't say they're not connected either).

[Scar Akai 65]

Then who kill Jodie's father. Sharon kill and she happen to tell her daughter about that? and use her daughter fingerprint to touch Jodie' father glass without knowing it will survive the fire?

I am just saying a possibility.... And they are mother and child.... They might have talked about their experiences and things they have undergone, right?

[sroesch 1]

First you shouldn't use movie as reference because it's not canon.

He keep appearing because he's popular, a fan favorite. Doesn't necessary connect to the main plot (didn't say they're not connected either).

First, sorry if I'm posting a reply twice - still just getting used to using this kind of forum... Second... ouch, guess I've been slapped - that teaches me not to reply or post opinions to anything - from now on, at least for awhile, I'll just read other peoples... or maybe not visit so much anymore...

[User 4869 100]

I am just saying a possibility.... And they are mother and child.... They might have talked about their experiences and things they have undergone, right?

Yes, there are possibility. but that possibility is very low. Since "Christ" only older than Jodie for 1 year. She don't suppose to kill Jodie while Jodie is 4-5 since she only 6 at the time.

First, sorry if I'm posting a reply twice - still just getting used to using this kind of forum... Second... ouch, guess I've been slapped - that teaches me not to reply or post opinions to anything - from now on, at least for awhile, I'll just read other peoples... or maybe not visit so much anymore...

I didn't mean to be harsh. If that insult you I'm sorry. You absolutely can post you comment. But i just disgree with that comment. My posy also just an opinion. But movie is not canon is fact. So it can't reflect Auther in anyway.

[Scar Akai 65]

Yes, there are possibility. but that possibility is very low. Since "Christ" only older than Jodie for 1 year. She don't suppose to kill Jodie while Jodie is 4-5 since she only 6 at the time.

I didn't mean to be harsh. If that insult you I'm sorry. You absolutely can post you comment. But i just disgree with that comment. My posy also just an opinion. But movie is not canon is fact. So it can't reflect Auther in anyway.

I know.... And I'm hoping that that possibility won't be what it will turn out like. But then, I just want to know where you know about that(their ages )?

[User 4869 100]

The little Box under their face which write their name when they being introduce. Vermouth in 174 or 175 (She's 29)and Jodie in 226 (She's 28). Of Cause the Vermouth one was a lie. But I assume this is the age that is know to public. The one Christ give to media but actually she has Sharon's age which is at least 50 (You have to be 50 to have a 29 yeas old daughter). About Jodie is 4-5 at the time I assume by how she look.

[sroesch 1]

Yes, there are possibility. but that possibility is very low. Since "Christ" only older than Jodie for 1 year. She don't suppose to kill Jodie while Jodie is 4-5 since she only 6 at the time.

I didn't mean to be harsh. If that insult you I'm sorry. You absolutely can post you comment. But i just disgree with that comment. My posy also just an opinion. But movie is not canon is fact. So it can't reflect Auther in anyway.

Actually, the part of my comment about the author was referring to an earlier post in this subject trail, it wasn't anything I'd known on my own

[Scar Akai 65]

The little Box under their face which write their name when they being introduce. Vermouth in 174 or 175 (She's 29)and Jodie in 226 (She's 28). Of Cause the Vermouth one was a lie. But I assume this is the age that is know to public. The one Christ give to media but actually she has Sharon's age which is at least 50 (You have to be 50 to have a 29 yeas old daughter). About Jodie is 4-5 at the time I assume by how she look.

Are those age mentioned in the manga? And another thing is that it's ChriS Vineyard, not Christ.

[User 4869 100]

Yes

Chris (Sorry I always call her Sharon so I misspell Chris) V.24 File. 9 P. 3 Age 29

Jodie Vol. 27 File. 7 P. 7 Age 28

[Scar Akai 65]

Yes

Chris (Sorry I always call her Sharon so I misspell Chris) V.24 File. 9 P. 3 Age 29

Jodie Vol. 27 File. 7 P. 7 Age 28

Owwww...... So the psychotic theory is now impossible !!!! Hahaha.... But that is if their age known to the public is their real age.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Right now, it isn't clear if Vermouth isn't aging at all or got younger at some point because of an experimental drug. She probably never took APTX4869 because, at the time, the Org believed (and still believes) that APTX was incomplete and that it only worked as a poison. Vermouth would have needed to take something else.

Sharon’s mother may also be Vermouth because she died in a fire on the day Sharon debuted. (vol 35-1 page 2) Sharon may not be Vermouth’s first alias. Vermouth would currently have to be 70-85 if Sharon's mom was also Vermouth as well. This would imply that APTX in its current incarnation isn’t the source of Vermouth’s apparent failure to age. Shiho’s parents and their experiments are too young to account for the timepoint. It would have to be Shiho’s grandparents or something else.

Based on the above info, it could be that something affected Vermouth a long time ago which halted her aging, but the Org has been unable to replicate the effects. Atsushi and Elena Miyano may have created APTX4869 based on Vermouth. Later when Shiho took up the research, she would have had to come into contact with Vermouth which explains why despite being a researcher, she knows Vermouth well enough personally to be terrified.

Note that if Vermouth's aging was halted when she was 20-30 years old, the triggering event would have occurred 50+ years before the current time, matching up with Shiho's quote about how Kudo is part of an Org project that has been going on for over half a century. (file 189, but see the ep 130/131 for a better translation) The project she is mentioning is the Org's immortality project that started with Vermouth and which APTX4869 is a subproject within.

Vermouth's resentment of her condition is probably the reason behind her dislike of all the Miyanos and their “foolish”(434) research. Vermouth's resentment may also be why she seems to want the Black Org brought down - she is tired of it all. I imagine her non-aging is also the reason for the boss's favoritism.

[User 4869 100]

Right now, it isn't clear if Vermouth isn't aging at all or got younger at some point because of an experimental drug. She probably never took APTX4869 because, at the time, the Org believed (and still believes) that APTX was incomplete and that it only worked as a poison. Vermouth would have needed to take something else.

Sharon’s mother may also be Vermouth because she died in a fire on the day Sharon debuted. (vol 35-1 page 2) Sharon may not be Vermouth’s first alias. Vermouth would currently have to be 70-85 if Sharon's mom was also Vermouth as well. This would imply that APTX in its current incarnation isn’t the source of Vermouth’s apparent failure to age. Shiho’s parents and their experiments are too young to account for the timepoint. It would have to be Shiho’s grandparents or something else.

Based on the above info, it could be that something affected Vermouth a long time ago which halted her aging, but the Org has been unable to replicate the effects. Atsushi and Elena Miyano may have created APTX4869 based on Vermouth. Later when Shiho took up the research, she would have had to come into contact with Vermouth which explains why despite being a researcher, she knows Vermouth well enough personally to be terrified.

Note that if Vermouth's aging was halted when she was 20-30 years old, the triggering event would have occurred 50+ years before the current time, matching up with Shiho's quote about how Kudo is part of an Org project that has been going on for over half a century. (file 189, but see the ep 130/131 for a better translation) The project she is mentioning is the Org's immortality project that started with Vermouth and which APTX4869 is a subproject within.

Vermouth's resentment of her condition is probably the reason behind her dislike of all the Miyanos and their “foolish”(434) research. Vermouth's resentment may also be why she seems to want the Black Org brought down - she is tired of it all. I imagine her non-aging is also the reason for the boss's favoritism.

1 There a possibility that she want to commit suicide. But the timeline doesn't match up if she use APTX 4869 since it probably exist after Shiho's take the project (Given that Pisco know enough).

2 Didn't Sharon say Shiho's parent "start" this experiment. May be we should rule out that possibility.

3 I never connect Sharon's mother and 50 years project together. Good point.

4 Why did she shot herself to preserve Boss's secret. Maybe fear of retaliation? Maybe the conversation (Did they actually talk or just mailing) with boss that time contain some important information that only Sharon know. Or else she should just let Conan have it and pretend she know nothing about it and say information leak from another place. Mail number might be not that important t since a "red-shirt" like Kusuda know it. Akai and Jodie seem not surprise when they learn about the address (Eisuke's incident) Given that Akai also an BO operative and probably know it. Or it's just Sharom can't find a way to overpower Conan and escape.

[Scar Akai 65]

1 There a possibility that she want to commit suicide. But the timeline doesn't match up if she use APTX 4869 since it probably exist after Shiho's take the project (Given that Pisco know enough).

2 Didn't Sharon say Shiho's parent "start" this experiment. May be we should rule out that possibility.

3 I never connect Sharon's mother and 50 years project together. Good point.

4 Why did she shot herself to preserve Boss's secret. Maybe fear of retaliation? Maybe the conversation (Did they actually talk or just mailing) with boss that time contain some important information that only Sharon know. Or else she should just let Conan have it and pretend she know nothing about it and say information leak from another place. Mail number might be not that important t since a "red-shirt" like Kusuda know it. Akai and Jodie seem not surprise when they learn about the address (Eisuke's incident) Given that Akai also an BO operative and probably know it. Or it's just Sharom can't find a way to overpower Conan and escape.

1.Even so, the BO would have realised if their high ranking member turned younger won't they?

2.Maybe the Grandparents started by doing the research but the actual creation of it was started by her parents.

4. The FBIs haven't learn about the email address. (Based on podcast 7)

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

1 There a possibility that she want to commit suicide. But the timeline doesn't match up if she use APTX 4869 since it probably exist after Shiho's take the project (Given that Pisco know enough).

1.Even so, the BO would have realised if their high ranking member turned younger won't they?

This is the other reason Vermouth taking APTX4869 doesn't make sense; if they knew APTX4869 deaged people, the Org would have figured out how Shiho escaped.

2 Didn't Sharon say Shiho's parent "start" this experiment. May be we should rule out that possibility.

Atsushi and Elena Miyano may have started the APTX4869 project but the general project may have been started by someone else.

4 Why did she shot herself to preserve Boss's secret. Maybe fear of retaliation? Maybe the conversation (Did they actually talk or just mailing) with boss that time contain some important information that only Sharon know. Or else she should just let Conan have it and pretend she know nothing about it and say information leak from another place. Mail number might be not that important t since a "red-shirt" like Kusuda know it. Akai and Jodie seem not surprise when they learn about the address (Eisuke's incident) Given that Akai also an BO operative and probably know it. Or it's just Sharom can't find a way to overpower Conan and escape.

Vermouth seems like she wants the Black Org to be brought down, but for some reason is unable to do so or does not want to do so herself. Rather than directly attacking the Org, she seems to have decided to give Shinichi and Shiho a fair and fighting chance to take he Org down and is helping them by keeping their secret and using her influence to keep them from being killed. (She saved Conan from being shot by Gin and co and Mouri Detective agency.) As for why she isn't completely loyal to the Org, it could be that over time her views and perspective have changed so she no longer sees eye to eye with the Org's mission. (Because of her anti-aging condition?) She could also be held “hostage” in some way.

Maybe the conversation (Did they actually talk or just mailing) with boss.

That conversation was by text message.

[Scar Akai 65]

That conversation was by text message.

Text message?So it isn't email?

[User 4869 100]

erh. I think it's the same, in term of communication. Japanese usually call it e-mail but i wander if it actually text meesage.

[Scar Akai 65]

yea... Coz in the translated files, the translators say email. But I have been wondering why Anokata's email is made up of numbers..

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

yea... Coz in the translated files, the translators say email. But I have been wondering why Anokata's email is made up of numbers..

It's a phone number. I don't know why email address was used in translations back then. Conan specifically says if Takagi traced it and found it belonged to a land line, they could get the boss's address. Then again, I have no idea why Conan would think it was a landline. Most landlines don't receive text messages as far as I know, but then again this is the tech-feature-loving Japan we are considering.

[DetectiveSherry 2]

Sharon’s mother may also be Vermouth because she died in a fire on the day Sharon debuted. (vol 35-1 page 2) Sharon may not be Vermouth’s first alias. Vermouth would currently have to be 70-85 if Sharon's mom was also Vermouth as well.

I doubt of Vermouth having three identities for public. If she's really Sharon's mother and swiched to Sharon as her public form (owing to immortality effect), then why does she have to take another public form as Chris?

I believe that's because she turned younger at this point and thought it convenient to be at the same age as she is at public.

Also, according to the quoted theory, it follows that "Sharon" hadn't existed right? But it's weird that a star appears out of nowhere and there has to be an recognized existance(real person) before that.

So I'm guessing that Sharon at the age of around 50 is Vermouth's true identity, I mean she is what Vermouth is to be if nothing happened regarding her aging.

What do you think?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I doubt of Vermouth having three identities for public. If she's really Sharon's mother and swiched to Sharon as her public form (owing to immortality effect), then why does she have to take another public form as Chris?

I believe that's because she turned younger at this point and thought it convenient to be at the same age as she is at public.

Also, according to the quoted theory, it follows that "Sharon" hadn't existed right? But it's weird that a star appears out of nowhere and there has to be an recognized existance(real person) before that.

So I'm guessing that Sharon at the age of around 50 is Vermouth's true identity, I mean she is what Vermouth is to be if nothing happened regarding her aging.

What do you think?

She would take a public form as Chris for a few reasons, one is that disguising as an older and older person is harder and requires more makeup, the risk of a revealing accident increases. (Rain, fans touching face, something falls on her head, etc) Second, and perhaps more importantly is that Sharon has picked up heat from the FBI (Much later edit: Why would Jodie pay attention to Sharon's funeral otherwise?) The FBI correctly figured out Sharon was Vermouth (Much Later edit: Until Jodie found out, they may not have known Vermouth's codename or even if she was Jodie's father's killer), but by becoming Chris, suddenly she is now too young to have committed the crime 20 years ago. The FBI is going to need to start over again and build a strong case that they are the same person before they can haul her off. Jodie's investigation has made that possible now and Vermouth wasn't counting on her doing as well as she had.

The second part of your objection doesn't make much sense to me because basically "Chris" hadn't existed, and had gone from an extremely secretive lifestyle, only appearing for interviews and acting movies, to a public one as soon as Sharon died. Why couldn't Sharon appear the same way? The "real person" who existed before Sharon was Sharon's Mom who died on the day of Sharon's debut. Not all stars are born from stars if that is what you mean. If Sharon's mom was not an actor as well (she may have been), Vermouth is, according to Hattori, gorgeous and she acts well. As Sharon, she could have made it under her own power to stardom.

[Orangeburst 19]

The little Box under their face which write their name when they being introduce. Vermouth in 174 or 175 (She's 29)and Jodie in 226 (She's 28). Of Cause the Vermouth one was a lie. But I assume this is the age that is know to public. The one Christ give to media but actually she has Sharon's age which is at least 50 (You have to be 50 to have a 29 yeas old daughter). About Jodie is 4-5 at the time I assume by how she look.

That's a NICE one!

Well, before I can post my theory I need answers...

How old was Sharon in episode 286-288 when they were in New York?

Well, let's say...if she took APTX 4869, then she would become ten years younger. And then Sharon said that she haven't seen Chris for ten years. That means when Chris "appeared", Sharon already took the drug. Then in the NY case, that would be ten years later, Sharon(who already took the drug ten years before) became 10 years older, back to her age when she took the drug. And Chris, at that time, was never heard. So, Sharon took APTX 4869 again then acted as Chris (that's the time when Sharon "died") until now. I'm not really sure, but it may be wrong or what.

[Cheesus 6]

yes but APTX is not known to the Organization that it shirnks you.