The Secret Behind Vermouth's Youth!

[Scar Akai 65]

We know that's not the case though. Remember the serial killer was shot in the side? If you look at Yukiko talking to Sharon at the end of the case, she mentions there was an angel for her, while clutching her side where the serial killer was shot.

Okay.... I give up....*salutes* All hail Chek!!!(But is it poss if it was Chris disguising as Sharon throughout the whole case? )

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Okay.... I give up....*salutes* All hail Chek!!!(But is it poss if it was Chris disguising as Sharon throughout the whole case? )

Sure, but it means you are assuming people are in disguise without evidence in order to make the facts suit your theory. Also only Sharon Vineyard would recognize Conan as young Shinichi unless Chris has been disguising as Sharon for 10 or so years.

[Remy 2]

what an amazing guess

you have a wonderful imagination

[Cindy-Chen 82]

Same.

[Scar Akai 65]

Sure, but it means you are assuming people are in disguise without evidence in order to make the facts suit your theory. Also only Sharon Vineyard would recognize Conan as young Shinichi unless Chris has been disguising as Sharon for 10 or so years.

What's your theory of about this(The Secret Behind Vermouth's Youth)?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

What's your theory of about this(The Secret Behind Vermouth's Youth)?

It's in the blue link in my signature, under the section labelled "Vermouth/Chris Vineyard/Sharon Vineyard/Sharon’s mother and Sharon's husband"

[A L 217]

Random Fan desu!

Hmmm, here's a deal.

Magic Kaito is also by Gosho-san.

Pandora grants immortality/ everlasting youth.

KID is in DC.

So Pandora is in DC.

So Vermouth+Pandora= her youth!

Simple enough, I think!

[A L 217]

I suggest the Pandora gem! Vermouth found it and or was given it by Kaito KID I to be protected from the organization!

[Silverbullet-kun 20]

I think she maintains health which makes her look young

[Tsukiko 73]

I think there is a drug like APTX4869 but not excalty the same one... Or something like that.

[Sayomi 17]

I think there is a drug like APTX4869 but not excalty the same one... Or something like that.

Maybe it's just a magical Botox that allows her to have multiple facial expressions.

LOL I'm such a troll. Just kidding. I still stand by my "she's an old hag who drank from Pandora's Gem to become immortal" theory.

[ValleyofFear 1]

The only reason we believe that they are a same person is because Jodie found that the fingerprint on ther father's glasses matched Vermouth's. However, I think it's more likely and realistic if they are different people and Sharon who burned down that house tricked the FBI into thinking that by wiping her prints off of that glasses and put her 9 year old daughter's forged fingerprints on it instead, but made it bigger in size so that they wouldn't think it was from a kid.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

The only reason we believe that they are a same person is because Jodie found that the fingerprint on ther father's glasses matched Vermouth's. However, I think it's more likely and realistic if they are different people and Sharon who burned down that house tricked the FBI into thinking that by wiping her prints off of that glasses and put her 9 year old daughter's forged fingerprints on it instead, but made it bigger in size so that they wouldn't think it was from a kid.

It can't work that way. The first problem is Vermouth didn't know at first Jodie survived; she found out later but couldn't find Jodie because she had gone into witness protection and had taken the glasses with her. Secondly, even though Vermouth later found out Jodie lived, she had no idea Jodie preserved her father's glasses with Vermouth's fingerprint. Vermouth first found out 20 years later when Jodie told her that her fingerprints were preserved. Thus there is not way for her to tamper with them. The fingerprint on the glasses is the genuine article.

For more info see the wiki article discussing how Jodie and Conan discovered Sharon and Chris were the same person, Vermouth

[ValleyofFear 1]

It can't work that way. The first problem is Vermouth didn't know at first Jodie survived; she found out later but couldn't find Jodie because she had gone into witness protection and had taken the glasses with her. Secondly, even though Vermouth later found out Jodie lived, she had no idea Jodie preserved her father's glasses with Vermouth's fingerprint. Vermouth first found out 20 years later when Jodie told her that her fingerprints were preserved. Thus there is not way for her to tamper with them. The fingerprint on the glasses is the genuine article.

For more info see the wiki article discussing how Jodie and Conan discovered Sharon and Chris were the same person, Vermouth

I'd say that my theory is more likely than her taking the drug or saying that she found the pandora. Everything in DC is based on logic (except for those two times when Shinichi and Sherry were shrunk) and pandora is in Magic Kaito only. I'd be disappointed if suddenly they start to bring supernatural things other than the ones already shown.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I'd say that my theory is more likely than her taking the drug or saying that she found the pandora. Everything in DC is based on logic (except for those two times when Shinichi and Sherry were shrunk) and pandora is in Magic Kaito only. I'd be disappointed if suddenly they start to bring supernatural things other than the ones already shown.

You don't have to limit yourself to APTX 4869 or Pandora as possible solutions, and like it or not, the Black Org science qualifies as pure magic with a veneer of biochemistry, and is of recurring importance to the plot.

Personally, I believe there is another compound besides APTX 4869 that hasn’t yet been mentioned that caused Vermouth’s aging problem. Whatever it is, I imagine the purpose of the APTX 4869 project is an attempt to replicate the lost compound's formula. Also, I think that whatever it is, based on the NY case and her planning in advance to change into more youthful roles, stopped Vermouth's aging rather than deaged her.

If the Miyanos based APTX 4869 30 years ago off of her, that means that Vermouth is their guinea pig. She may not have enjoyed that. Also, if Vermouth has become more cynical about her aging condition and the Organization's goals over time, then she would come to dislike Atsushi and Elena who are, in a way, a personification of the Organization's science goals. It would also explain why Shiho knows Vermouth well and is especially terrified of her, despite them being in different lines of work.

[ValleyofFear 1]

You don't have to limit yourself to APTX 4869 or Pandora as possible solutions, and like it or not, the Black Org science qualifies as pure magic with a veneer of biochemistry, and is of recurring importance to the plot.

Personally, I believe there is another compound besides APTX 4869 that hasn’t yet been mentioned that caused Vermouth’s aging problem. Whatever it is, I imagine the purpose of the APTX 4869 project is an attempt to replicate the lost compound's formula. Also, I think that whatever it is, based on the NY case and her planning in advance to change into more youthful roles, stopped Vermouth's aging rather than deaged her.

If the Miyanos based APTX 4869 30 years ago off of her, that means that Vermouth is their guinea pig. She may not have enjoyed that. Also, if Vermouth has become more cynical about her aging condition and the Organization's goals over time, then she would come to dislike Atsushi and Elena who are, in a way, a personification of the Organization's science goals. It would also explain why Shiho knows Vermouth well and is especially terrified of her, despite them being in different lines of work.

Let's assume that your theory is true and that she was given a substance that stopped her from aging 30 years ago by the Miyanos. From that, the most likely story would be that she planned one or two years after that to pretend to be her own daughter. She marries this guy and 28 years later when she came out to the public, when her appearance as a 28 year old would be consistent with her story of being Sharon's daughter. I can understand how you might think this but I say that it is unlikely. For one thing, Chris Vineyard refused to tell her real age to the public and so did Sharon. If Vermouth went through all that trouble to make sure her story of having a daughter made sense, why would she not tell them something that could have erased any possible doubts? If she did say that she was 28 years old after her mother's supposed funeral, then they would completely believe her since Sharon must have married some time around that time (since that's about the time she would've taken the drug and planned this one or two years later).

The other factor is that in order for her to decieve everyone from discovering the truth, she would need to know how to disguise herself. In order for her story to make sense, she would need to look ten years older than how she actually look (20years) when she took lessons from Toichi Kuroba with Shinichi's mother. Why would she bother taking that lesson if she was already an expert? For fun? not likely, To get close to Yukiko? Not it either. There's just no good reason.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

For one thing, Chris Vineyard refused to tell her real age to the public and so did Sharon.

Chris's "real" age was listed (29), so it isn't like she refused to give her age out (although it may be fake). We don't know how old Sharon is supposed to be, but that doesn't mean she refused to give it out.

If Vermouth went through all that trouble to make sure her story of having a daughter made sense, why would she not tell them something that could have erased any possible doubts? If she did say that she was 28 years old after her mother's supposed funeral, then they would completely believe her since Sharon must have married some time around that time (since that's about the time she would've taken the drug and planned this one or two years later).

In order for me to reply to this, I need to know who "them" and "they" are here. Vermouth's audience matters to how I explain this.

The other factor is that in order for her to deceive everyone from discovering the truth, she would need to know how to disguise herself..... when she took lessons from Toichi Kuroba with Shinichi's mother. Why would she bother taking that lesson if she was already an expert? For fun? not likely, To get close to Yukiko? Not it either. There's just no good reason.

The need to disguise may be the reason she went into acting in the first place, but that doesn't mean she is an expert to begin with. As for becoming Toichi's apprentice, Vermouth could want to improve on her disguise abilities for work, but it is also important to consider that the older Sharon gets, the more involved the aging makeup will need to be, assuming Vermouth is not aging and is maintaining a 20-30 year old face.

As long as Sharon is supposed to look 40s or younger, she will simply need to maintain minor makeup to add superficial streaks and lines, made even simpler as she is an actress who is expected to look younger than her current age. That said, once Sharon reaches the age of ~50, her makeup routine is going to need to get a lot more advanced to account for the expected effects of aging which start to accelerate. We can ballpark Sharon's would be current age somewhere between 45 and 65, with 50-60 most likely, based on how she looks and Gosho's common childbearing age range. That means twenty years ago, when Sharon started with Toichi, she is anticipating the approaching age where her makeup would be expected to get a lot more involved, and she is making sure she has a few years under her belt with Toichi so she is advanced enough by the time she starts needing it.

In order for her story to make sense, she would need to look ten years older than how she actually look (20years)

We have no idea if whatever Vermouth took (but this applies to APTX 4869 as well) works by subtracting ten years from someone's current age, vs say, turning a person into prepubescent child no matter their starting age, or affecting different people differently.

Keeping all this in mind, we can now construct a timeline for Vermouth...

~probably 30-35 years ago - Sharon debuts on screen, her parents die in a fire (Sharon's age ≈ 15-25),

30 years ago - Sharon pretends to be pregnant with Chris (Sharon's age ≈ 20-30), she wins an Oscar, her husband dies.

30 years ago - the Miyanos are called in to research

~20 years ago - Sharon started with Toichi (age ≈ 30-40)

~20 years ago - Vermouth killed Jodie's father with a 20-30 year old face

~10 years ago - Chris is old enough to switch into as a role, Chris goes independent from Sharon (age = 19)

< 1 year ago - Sharon dies (age ≈ 50-60)

< 1 year ago - Chris comes out into public besides movies and publicity interviews. (age = 28)

Looking at that timeline, something unusual should stand out. The Miyanos came in around the exact time Sharon faked being pregnant (29 years + 9 months). If one tries to take into account the time needed for the Miyanos to build trust in the organization and to make a breakthrough in their anti-aging serum, Vermouth's aging problem seems to have occurred before the Miyanos even get there. This means whatever happened to Vermouth was not related to Atsushi and Elena's APTX 4869. Instead, it is more likely the inverse situation occurred: Elena and Atsushi were called in to research Vermouth.

We also need to consider what happened to Sharon when she took whatever it was that halted her aging. Lets assume that it took some time, lets say 5 years, for Vermouth to figure out she was not aging and for the Org to find the Miyanos and recruit them in reaction to this.

If we assume a type of drug that doesn't cause any deaging but just stops aging, then that means we have a total time of 35 years since Vermouth's aging incident. Unless we consider a drug that makes you older and stops you aging, that means Sharon should be older than 55 at least in order to have a minimum 20 year old face.

It also means that Sharon would have had to start getting into high level show business immediately (less than 5 years after finding out) to acquire the necessary disguise skills. She would also have to kill her parents who could possibly notice the discrepancy eventually.

Personally, I have a different take on the theory. I think Vermouth's natural face looks more like she is 25-30, which would put Sharon by necessity up to 60-65, which is too old for how Vermouth is making Sharon up to look. Furthermore, the choice of using a fire to kill one's parents can be used to make the bodies and all personal effects nigh unidentifiable, given the forensics of the time. The timing of the deaths, the day Vermouth achieved high popularity with an Oscar and would put her parents under scrutiny, very much matches up with how Sharon died when Chris debuted.

I think it is possible that Vermouth is in fact Sharon's mother as well, making her about 80-85 years old, and on her third generation of disguise. She stopped aging 55-60 years before the current timeline. It works well within the timeline of what we know.

[ValleyofFear 1]

Chris's "real" age was listed (29), so it isn't like she refused to give her age out (although it may be fake). We don't know how old Sharon is supposed to be, but that doesn't mean she refused to give it out.

In order for me to reply to this, I need to know who "them" and "they" are here. Vermouth's audience matters to how I explain this.

The need to disguise may be the reason she went into acting in the first place, but that doesn't mean she is an expert to begin with. As for becoming Toichi's apprentice, Vermouth could want to improve on her disguise abilities for work, but it is also important to consider that the older Sharon gets, the more involved the aging makeup will need to be, assuming Vermouth is not aging and is maintaining a 20-30 year old face.

As long as Sharon is supposed to look 40s or younger, she will simply need to maintain minor makeup to add superficial streaks and lines, made even simpler as she is an actress who is expected to look younger than her current age. That said, once Sharon reaches the age of ~50, her makeup routine is going to need to get a lot more advanced to account for the expected effects of aging which start to accelerate. We can ballpark Sharon's would be current age somewhere between 45 and 65, with 50-60 most likely, based on how she looks and Gosho's common childbearing age range. That means twenty years ago, when Sharon started with Toichi, she is anticipating the approaching age where her makeup would be expected to get a lot more involved, and she is making sure she has a few years under her belt with Toichi so she is advanced enough by the time she starts needing it.

We have no idea if whatever Vermouth took (but this applies to APTX 4869 as well) works by subtracting ten years from someone's current age, vs say, turning a person into prepubescent child no matter their starting age, or affecting different people differently.

Keeping all this in mind, we can now construct a timeline for Vermouth...

~probably 30-35 years ago - Sharon debuts on screen, her parents die in a fire (Sharon's age ≈ 15-25),

30 years ago - Sharon pretends to be pregnant with Chris (Sharon's age ≈ 20-30), she wins an Oscar, her husband dies.

30 years ago - the Miyanos are called in to research

~20 years ago - Sharon started with Toichi (age ≈ 30-40)

~20 years ago - Vermouth killed Jodie's father with a 20-30 year old face

~10 years ago - Chris is old enough to switch into as a role, Chris goes independent from Sharon (age = 19)

< 1 year ago - Sharon dies (age ≈ 50-60)

< 1 year ago - Chris comes out into public besides movies and publicity interviews. (age = 28)

Looking at that timeline, something unusual should stand out. The Miyanos came in around the exact time Sharon faked being pregnant (29 years + 9 months). If one tries to take into account the time needed for the Miyanos to build trust in the organization and to make a breakthrough in their anti-aging serum, Vermouth's aging problem seems to have occurred before the Miyanos even get there. This means whatever happened to Vermouth was not related to Atsushi and Elena's APTX 4869. Instead, it is more likely the inverse situation occurred: Elena and Atsushi were called in to research Vermouth.

We also need to consider what happened to Sharon when she took whatever it was that halted her aging. Lets assume that it took some time, lets say 5 years, for Vermouth to figure out she was not aging and for the Org to find the Miyanos and recruit them in reaction to this.

If we assume a type of drug that doesn't cause any deaging but just stops aging, then that means we have a total time of 35 years since Vermouth's aging incident. Unless we consider a drug that makes you older and stops you aging, that means Sharon should be older than 55 at least in order to have a minimum 20 year old face.

It also means that Sharon would have had to start getting into high level show business immediately (less than 5 years after finding out) to acquire the necessary disguise skills. She would also have to kill her parents who could possibly notice the discrepancy eventually.

Personally, I have a different take on the theory. I think Vermouth's natural face looks more like she is 25-30, which would put Sharon by necessity up to 60-65, which is too old for how Vermouth is making Sharon up to look. Furthermore, the choice of using a fire to kill one's parents can be used to make the bodies and all personal effects nigh unidentifiable, given the forensics of the time. The timing of the deaths, the day Vermouth achieved high popularity with an Oscar and would put her parents under scrutiny, very much matches up with how Sharon died when Chris debuted.

I think it is possible that Vermouth is in fact Sharon's mother as well, making her about 80-85 years old, and on her third generation of disguise. She stopped aging 55-60 years before the current timeline. It works well within the timeline of what we know.

I am very impressed with your theory. I could not find one thing that doesn't add up. Now I'd like you to read what I've found recently as an attempt to support my theory.

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed but the reason why I even came up with this theory is because when I saw Vermouth's photo in her wiki page, I noticed that she was holding the phone with her left hand but the person who burnt down Jodie's house was without a doubt a right handed person. What's more. Sharon Vineyard was right-handed and when Vermouth disguised herself as Dr. Araide, she was definitely left-handed. At this point I thought that there's no way that Sharon and Chris were the same person. Gosho wouldn't make a mistake like that. However, I was very disappointed to find that the real Dr. Araide was left- handed when he was first introduced in the series. I thought then that Vermouth was just being left handed so she wouldn't give away her identity. Just to make sure I checked the file when the real Araide appeared after the haunted ship case and I noticed something that gave me goosebumps. He was RIGHT-HANDED! It's not like I'm 100% but he was definitely using that hand to whisper to Conan, point, and talk to the cell phone. That's just too many coincidences for me. There's not a single doubt in my mind that he was LEFT-HANDED when he was first introduced. That complicated things. The only other thing is weather Chris Vineyard is right-handed or left-handed. What I found was that most of the time when she isn't disguised as Araide, she used her right hand but there were several occasions when she used her left such as to poor drinks to herself and talk to the cell phone. There was something else interesting. In the manga, she used her right hand to tear off the Araide mask in the haunted ship case but in the Anime, she uses her left. She did handle her gun with her right hand but that might be because it was more convienient for her to grab it when it was on the left side of her jacket. During that episode, i thought that she had a pretty good aim and draw yet Jodie and Akai were both able to shoot faster than her. I noticed that when she shot the gas tank, she used her left hand. Usually, right handed people can't aim well with left hand, even more so when shooting backwards only using mirror while injured.

All this is just too much to be purely coincidence. Gosho wouldn't make those little detail without any reason and saying that they're both handed sounds a bit too weak. My theory is that after Sharon Vineyard burnt Jodie's house, she hears that her body wasn't found and realizes that she must have taken the witness protection program from the FBI since her father was one. Chris takes advantage of this and however reason Jodie was able to get a sample of Vermouth's fingerprint was on purpose. She uses a virus like Nightbaron to hack into the FBI's data base and change the fingerprints. She knew that the fingerprints they found would be from Sharon's right hand so she would have to pretend to be righthand as well when she is actually left-handed.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Valley, just to be safe, can you check to make sure the Araide's introduction case that you read wasn't flipped so it is read left to right instead of the usual Japanese right to left? The most common version floating around on the net is flipped to English style so the handedness of everyone in it is reversed.

[ValleyofFear 1]

Valley, just to be safe, can you check to make sure the Araide's introduction case that you read wasn't flipped so it is read left to right instead of the usual Japanese right to left? The most common version floating around on the net is flipped to English style so the handedness of everyone in it is reversed.

Good point. But if that's the case, then it's even more suspicious now isn't it? Why would Vermouth use her left hand when disguising as him? Actually, I think you just cleared many things that I wasn't sure about. I should thank you. It suppots my theory more that Vermouth is really left handed. Come on, this is the first real evidence I ever got to support my theory so cut me some slack.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Good point. But if that's the case, then it's even more suspicious now isn't it? Why would Vermouth use her left hand when disguising as him? Actually, I think you just cleared many things that I wasn't sure about. I should thank you. It suppots my theory more that Vermouth is really left handed. Come on, this is the first real evidence I ever got to support my theory so cut me some slack.

I'm not known for theoretical slack-cutting. Considering Vermouth most often handles guns right handed when she has a choice about which hand to use, that's a pretty strong indicator she is right handed. So far whenever a character has a choice about which hand to use a gun in, they go for the dominant hand, unless there is a specific reason they can't. Certainly Vermouth can handle with both though.

Characters sometimes use their off hands for various tasks, especially cellphone and communications device handling. You can look at trends here: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User:Chekhov_MacGuffin/Handedness

If you like I can add Vermouth to the list.

Later Edit: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User:Chekhov_MacGuffin/Handedness#Vermouth

[ValleyofFear 1]

I'm not known for theoretical slack-cutting. Considering Vermouth most often handles guns right handed when she has a choice about which hand to use, that's a pretty strong indicator she is right handed. So far whenever a character has a choice about which hand to use a gun in, they go for the dominant hand, unless there is a specific reason they can't. Certainly Vermouth can handle with both though.

Characters sometimes use their off hands for various tasks, especially cellphone and communications device handling. You can look at trends here: http://www.detective...ffin/Handedness

If you like I can add Vermouth to the list.

Unless I'm mistaken, the only time we've ever seen Vermouth actually shoot a gun was in the haunted ship case when she shot at Calvados with her right hand which could be counted as unavoidable since he was at her right side, and she uses her left hand to shoot at the gas tank. She probably just handled the gun with her right hand as it was convienient for her to tale the gun from Jodie with her left hand as it was in her right hand, then place it into her right hand. She might have done it as to not give away her identity. Besides, you still didn't explain why Vermouth was using her left hand when disguised as Araide as he is, now I know, clearly right handed.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Unless I'm mistaken, the only time we've ever seen Vermouth actually shoot a gun was in the haunted ship case when she shot at Calvados with her right hand which could be counted as unavoidable since he was at her right side, and she uses her left hand to shoot at the gas tank. She probably just handled the gun with her right hand as it was convienient for her to tale the gun from Jodie with her left hand as it was in her right hand, then place it into her right hand. She might have done it as to not give away her identity. Besides, you still didn't explain why Vermouth was using her left hand when disguised as Araide as he is, now I know, clearly right handed.

Aiming counts too. It looks like the list is going be necessary anyway if I am going to convince you.

[kirite 23]

I'm just joking but it would be amusing if we found Vermouth never took the APTX/pandora/plastic surgery at all but is just very good at make up and skin care. Olay regenesis anyone? Haha

Jodie: W-why? Why do you look the same all these years?

Akai: Hmm it doesn't look like a mask.

Vermouth: How rude! This is my natural face D<! You know how many hours I have to sit in front of the mirror in the morning for this look?! And this body doesn't come by itself you know!

The only reason why I think this is because of Yukiko really. Can you really say Vermouth and Yukiko doesn't look the same age still? The art style doesn't show age progression at all. If this wasn't BO related I'm sure Gosho will make a gag out of this.

With that said, if you're driving a car and shooting a gun at the same time, would you use your dominant hand for shooting or for driving ^^;? It could be that Akai is even more impressed because she wasn't using her dominant hand. It would be amusing if both her hands are dominant and she switches them every few days just to throw people off.

[tengaku squared 291]

With that said, if you're driving a car and shooting a gun at the same time, would you use your dominant hand for shooting or for driving ^^;? It could be that Akai is even more impressed because she wasn't using her dominant hand. It would be amusing if both her hands are dominant and she switches them every few days just to throw people off.

Personally, I'd use my dominant hand for shooting. But that's my preference.

Vermouth is ambidextrous? \o/