A Roleplay Subforum?

[Wicky 11]

Is it possible for there to be a roleplay subforum? It could be used for roleplaying (obviously xD), as it seems to be quite big here (the DCW IRLs). I guess it could be under chatroom or Fan art section, I guess.

[tengaku squared 291]

I personally think DCW IRL is not "big" enough to warrant a roleplay subforum. Although it would be nice, I don't think DCW IRL deserves such special treatment yet.

[Wicky 11]

I personally think DCW IRL is not "big" enough to warrant a roleplay subforum. Although it would be nice, I don't think DCW IRL deserves such special treatment yet.

I think that creating a sub forum will possibly spawn more roleplays, don't you think? I mean, it's just really messy having it all in the Chatroom...

[CarpetCrawler 280]

I think that creating a sub forum will possibly spawn more roleplays, don't you think? I mean, it's just really messy having it all in the Chatroom...

Not even DCTP has a roleplay forum, and they're far bigger and have more roleplaying threads than we do.

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

Actually, I kinda like the suggestion. The chatroom is getting a little messy. XD if there was a subforum, it would be nice.

And I'd like to say something in regards to the replies. Firstly, I don't think we should compare anything with DCTP. DCTP is DCTP and DCW is DCW. I know many people here are on there as well but the forums are still different to me. We do not have to adapt or follow what the other (forum) is doing. It kinda makes me feel like DCW is a subforum of DCTP and it sorta implies that DCTP is a much more powerful forum compared to DCW if you say that. Also, I dont think we should reject the idea completely. Consideration of the idea or suggestion is not going to do any damage. I do still agree that currently, it is still not necessary to make the effort to create a subforum and move the posts, but it is not so 'small' that a subforum cannot be created. I believe the only point here is whether or not it is necessary and not whether it needs special treatment or whether the other forums are doing it or not.

[Black Demon 466]

I personally support this suggestion, even though I'm not a player myself.

I also agree with KKLT that this is not necessarily a matter of special treatment. It's just a re-organization of the forum. Not only that doing so can help clean up the Chatroom section, it's also more convenient for the players and the moderators who are doing patrol duties. A more organized structure is always the better choice for all of us so I don't really see any harm in it. And yes, I know that so far we only have like 6 rounds of DCW IRL or so, and it's not quite necessary at this moment. But the number of rounds will keep increasing and increasing in the future, until the Chatroom section is full of DCW IRL things, and I don't think that anyone would like it that way. I guess it's also not how Chatroom was supposed to be either.

Furthermore, even if a sub-forum is created inside the Chatroom section, it's always gonna be a part of it, it won't actually earn any special standing comparing to other forums in DCW if that's what we're worrying about. Because when a member posts something in it, technically they'll still be posting inside Chatroom, so it isn't really going to change anything, except that the sub-forum will make things more organized and convenient, that's all.

However, with that said, the only one who can add more sub-forums is Maurice (iirc), so it all depends on his decision.

[Wicky 11]

Not even DCTP has a roleplay forum, and they're far bigger and have more roleplaying threads than we do.

... and the matter of fact is that you're comparing DCTP to DCW and they're both two completely different sites altogether, it's like judging to people together which is wrong.

Another reason: When I first joined this site, I didn't know what IRLs are. When I saw them in the chatroom, I read the rules and stuff, but had no idea what it is, until I found the roleplays. And come on, these could no doubt happen to anybody else.

So, having a roleplay subforum would actually clarify what irls are.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

It's Maurice who decides stuff like adding new subforums. I don't know if he monitors most of threads. You'll probably have to get his attention to ask about it.

[CarpetCrawler 280]

... and the matter of fact is that you're comparing DCTP to DCW and they're both two completely different sites altogether, it's like judging to people together which is wrong.

I kinda wish that statement were true sometimes.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Regardless of the comparison of DCTP to DCW here is how I view it...

Pointless. Why?

1) As of current there is only one game that would be put there. A whole subforum for one game doesn't make any sense.

2) What else WOULD you roleplay on DC specific forum? DC? That doesn't seem to be in high demand. DCTP used to have an IRC for DCRP, its pretty much dead now. And everything else? Well can't you go to a roleplay specific forum?

3) The moderators are here are not used to moderating role play type forums, as opposed to RP specific threads where the moderators are used to moderating RP related threads. Not one moderator here would know what to start. And the nature of roleplay tends to create tension. You need moderators whom are experienced in such things. It would create a lot of trouble imho. Especially if people get too into character and start taking offense to things that were said about their character by another character.

4) Everything withstanding that, a proper RP forum would need to have separate rules and regulations so that it is fair and fun for all. That way people don't power trip. Again, this creates issues with work load for moderators. (A general set, separate from thread specific rule sets)

5) Maurice runs this site. Considering everything I said, and the fact that he created this for Wiki, not for Roleplay. Why spread the task of this forum even further?

This is just my take. It is more trouble than it is worth and honestly. Keep this website as a discussion and wiki site. That is what makes the most sense. If you want to organize specific RPs I'm sure no one will stop you. You can make a thread here, do live over IRC. It is all up to you. However, creating another forum for mods to worry about is just unfair, and again pointless since it is a small group of people.

[Lovestruck 70]

The moderators are here are not used to moderating role play type forums, as opposed to RP specific threads where the moderators are used to moderating RP related threads. Not one moderator here would know what to start. And the nature of roleplay tends to create tension. You need moderators whom are experienced in such things. It would create a lot of trouble imho. Especially if people get too into character and start taking offense to things that were said about their character by another character.

If you want to organize specific RPs I'm sure no one will stop you. You can make a thread here, do live over IRC. It is all up to you. However, creating another forum for mods to worry about is just unfair, and again pointless since it is a small group of people.

You just pointed it out. Another forum = Extra UNNECESSIRALY work for Mods & Maurice. That's why, I suggest that -if this forum was ever created- that the ones who started the idea have to take it's responsibilty. I don't really know how to explain it, but I'm sure everyone got what I mean.

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

You just pointed it out. Another forum = Extra UNNECESSIRALY work for Mods & Maurice. That's why, I suggest that -if this forum was ever created- that the ones who started the idea have to take it's responsibilty. I don't really know how to explain it, but I'm sure everyone got what I mean.

Don't... Erm really get what you mean. Maybe I don't know since I've never been mod of a forum before, but I don't really get what is the too much extra work to be done after a sub forum is created. It is STILL under the chatroom, same number of threads, just one more level deeper. I can understand all the work required to create that sub-forum (creation requires work, moving requires work.), but essentially, after the creation, it's still under chatroom and the number of threads to be managed is still the same. (unless going down one more level is actually more work for the mods @_@ ) My understanding is, the proposer is suggesting a sub-forum such that it would be more organized, which I feel it would. About the extra managing work... Maybe you'd like to explain.

I don't, however, deny that it is really a lot of work to actually create that sub-forum. I think its nice to have, but not at all necessary.

[Lovestruck 70]

Kyuu mentioned why its extra work. x:

As for what I was saying, that if a subforum was created, there will have to be someone in charge of it -AKA a mod- who'd be responsible for this sub-forum and everything that happens in it.

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

Okay I read it again and I see the point. I guess the way we viewed it was different. Apparently forum specific for role playing and the promoting of roleplaying is the problem. True, to a certain extent, but I feel those reasons are more applicable for sites which do not already have any role playing and are debating whether or not to create one. We already have a form of role playing going on right now under chatroom with no designated moderator (unless you mean chatroom mod) and we are still doing fine. With a new sub-forum, does it mean that there MUST be another mod for it? We had a sub-forum in "Games" too. Its called forum games. Is there another mod for it too?

My point of view is that, there could be a sub forum created, just to make it more organized and we can use it for role plays as well. It will use the rules from the chatroom instead of having its own very special set of rules. If anyone wants to create a role play, they shall manage it themselves just as we have done it currently. Mods might feel obliged to create a perfectly equipped sub-forum, but I think all we really want is just the ease of finding the threads. The newbies may be interested to know that there is such a thing here. It gives us a place to create one so that we dont create it all over the Place. (We do have something like this in games forum too.) That's all. No need for too much complications.

No one will come to DCW specifically for a role play and truthfully its totally unnecessary, but you know... the DCW family may like to have one.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Okay I read it again and I see the point. I guess the way we viewed it was different. Apparently forum specific for role playing and the promoting of roleplaying is the problem. True, to a certain extent, but I feel those reasons are more applicable for sites which do not already have any role playing and are debating whether or not to create one. We already have a form of role playing going on right now under chatroom with no designated moderator (unless you mean chatroom mod) and we are still doing fine. With a new sub-forum, does it mean that there MUST be another mod for it? We had a sub-forum in "Games" too. Its called forum games. Is there another mod for it too?

My point of view is that, there could be a sub forum created, just to make it more organized and we can use it for role plays as well. It will use the rules from the chatroom instead of having its own very special set of rules. If anyone wants to create a role play, they shall manage it themselves just as we have done it currently. Mods might feel obliged to create a perfectly equipped sub-forum, but I think all we really want is just the ease of finding the threads. The newbies may be interested to know that there is such a thing here. It gives us a place to create one so that we dont create it all over the Place. (We do have something like this in games forum too.) That's all. No need for too much complications.

No one will come to DCW specifically for a role play and truthfully its totally unnecessary, but you know... the DCW family may like to have one.

 

 

Currently the only RP is DCW IRL. Yes? That is a start and end affair. The only purpose it would serve is to act as an archive for past plays. But you know what? Site search does the same. Since searching for "DCW IRL" will serve as essentially the same thing, if you really need to look up old threads of the RP.

 

As for everything else, that doesn't actually change my point, whether it is DC related or not. There need to be general rules, because it would branch out (in other words universal RPing rules that won't be breached, which would maintain fairness). There would need to be special moderation. There would be constant moving. The needs of RP forums are totally different from most other forums. 

 

There is a reason why most forums don't have RP even though the fandoms clamor for them (and those that really want them, tend to create their own forums specifically for RPing purposes). Because of the work and the drama they bring. Most forums keep it to communal discussion, and all others specify that they are an RPing forum.

 

DCW IRL is fairly contained as far as I can tell, so asking, for perhaps a log area for past RPs I understand more. But a whole other RP subforum? Not so much. However, it would be specific to DCW IRL. The second it expands past that problems occur again. 

There are things to consider if they are long spanning or spread across many threads. First is how to keep track of everyone's character. Character creation is one of the core essences of RPing. Character logs: how to keep track of what each character has done. Further subforums if it does take off. Unless you want the new RP subforum to become clogged and confusing with multiple RPs going on at once. Constant moving of threads, taking out old ones and moving them to inactive (unless of course you have sufficient subforums created). 

Clearly you are only thinking short term, which is ease of use of DCW IRL. Which can easily be remedied by methods previously stated. Long term RP forums take a lot of upkeep. I'm not sure you realize that. If it grows, like you hope it will, it will only become exponentially more trouble as time goes on and it gets more popular. As it stands the RPing community here isn't big enough to warrant a separate subforum. This why Carpet Crawler brought up DCTP (or so I assume). DCTP has just as large, if not a larger RPing community than DCW, yet does fine without an RP subforum. Why? Because it is simply not needed for the amount of RPing that actually occurs, and would only bring more complications. The RPs are self-contained and searchable if you want to go back and read. 

 

Leave it at that. This is simply not needed. In essence, you are asking for the admin and mods to take on additional responsibility and work, just so you can find a few threads a bit easier, Use the search function. It is rather simple. 

 

tl;dr: It isn't like there are many different RPs here. There is only one. Use the search to find old threads, and problem is solved without the creation of a new subforum, which can potentially bring more problems. 

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

Really. Your points are all valid, and im not trying to disagree or try and oppose what you're saying or make you agree with me. Yet I still can't understand the same thing which I'm trying to ... understand - the difference.

 

Maybe my command of the language isn't really enough for me to bring out the idea so let me give an example. You mentioned a sub-forum would require general rules. True. There's basically nothing in the forum that does not follow rules. The chat room has rules as well and the current RP is supposed to keep to the rules while it is in the chatroom. And i believe it is (still) doing fine. Now if we move it to another SUB-forum, which is STILL In chatroom, will there be a need to change the rules? if yes, why?

 

IMO, the thread is still the same, topic, function doesn't change, the way things are done doesn't change. Does it mean that if it stays in the chat room it doesn't need to be managed but it will have to be managed in the sub-forum?

Or if people quarrel and fight in the chatroom, it can be ignored? Does it mean that if the RP in chatroom doesn't need to be Archived if it happened to Grow but in the RP sub-forum it has to? What is the difference?

 

Of course you mentioned the needs of a role play forum are different. Now, this is a sub-forum we're talking about and my understanding is that it isn't actually a full fledged RP forum, but instead, something like a 'category' or 'filter' for a more 'logic' grouping. People don't actually come to DCW for RP and those who only seeks RP will find other role play sites (E.g rpnation).

 

So, by 'needs' of a rp forum, do you mean the player's requirement or the mod's requirement? Like I said, I don't think the players here really require a fully equipped role play forum and i don't think the proposer is asking for that at all. Also, don't think we currently need any archiving or constant move of threads. If a forum is (ever) created, everything's there! Where do we move it? To the archive? What for? We'd probably only need to pin the active threads. Is it for organization purposes? Even without that I believe it will still be much much more organized than our chat room right now. Maybe you're thinking things too big. We're not trying to make DCW into a rp site.

But after reading your post I did understand more as to what you're trying to get at. Let's sum up the one major point I think you're trying to say and see if I understood it correctly. You are afraid that a new sub-forum would trigger a huge thread Growth for role play which would make it troublesome for the future and might likely cause some unforeseen problems. Good way to put it?

 

 

---

EDITS: (Realized i posted everything in a chunk. Added paragraphs. :V)

[tengaku squared 291]

Kyuu said:

Currently the only RP is DCW IRL. Yes? That is a start and end affair. The only purpose it would serve is to act as an archive for past plays. But you know what? Site search does the same. Since searching for "DCW IRL" will serve as essentially the same thing, if you really need to look up old threads of the RP.

 

As for everything else, that doesn't actually change my point, whether it is DC related or not. There need to be general rules, because it would branch out (in other words universal RPing rules that won't be breached, which would maintain fairness). There would need to be special moderation. There would be constant moving. The needs of RP forums are totally different from most other forums. 

 

There is a reason why most forums don't have RP even though the fandoms clamor for them (and those that really want them, tend to create their own forums specifically for RPing purposes). Because of the work and the drama they bring. Most forums keep it to communal discussion, and all others specify that they are an RPing forum.

 

DCW IRL is fairly contained as far as I can tell, so asking, for perhaps a log area for past RPs I understand more. But a whole other RP subforum? Not so much. However, it would be specific to DCW IRL. The second it expands past that problems occur again. 

There are things to consider if they are long spanning or spread across many threads. First is how to keep track of everyone's character. Character creation is one of the core essences of RPing. Character logs: how to keep track of what each character has done. Further subforums if it does take off. Unless you want the new RP subforum to become clogged and confusing with multiple RPs going on at once. Constant moving of threads, taking out old ones and moving them to inactive (unless of course you have sufficient subforums created). 

Clearly you are only thinking short term, which is ease of use of DCW IRL. Which can easily be remedied by methods previously stated. Long term RP forums take a lot of upkeep. I'm not sure you realize that. If it grows, like you hope it will, it will only become exponentially more trouble as time goes on and it gets more popular. As it stands the RPing community here isn't big enough to warrant a separate subforum. This why Carpet Crawler brought up DCTP (or so I assume). DCTP has just as large, if not a larger RPing community than DCW, yet does fine without an RP subforum. Why? Because it is simply not needed for the amount of RPing that actually occurs, and would only bring more complications. The RPs are self-contained and searchable if you want to go back and read. 

 

Leave it at that. This is simply not needed. In essence, you are asking for the admin and mods to take on additional responsibility and work, just so you can find a few threads a bit easier, Use the search function. It is rather simple. 

 

And I will respond:

I was originally against the motion of a subforum for DCW IRL. However, seeing others argue make me feel a bit ashamed that I, who consider myself one of the founders of DCW IRL, so quickly abandoned it. I will briefly explain my views in what I like to call, a "little talk".

 

First of all, you cannot search for DCW IRL. It is impossible, because the search engine will not take queries which contain words of 3 or less characters. However, your point still stands here, because we do have an archive thread already.

 

We do have universal rules that apply to all DCW IRL rounds. Although we know that they need work, they can serve as a general guideline. You also mention "special moderation", and I don't think it is fair for the moderators to "take on additional responsibility and work", but you seem to be ignoring that there are people here that are completely willing and able to moderate these RP threads. I, myself, am willing, and so are other people.

 

I think that the RP forums you are talking about have long spanning RPs that indeed, require high amounts of maintenance. DCW IRL has rounds that are limited to 30 days (though we do tend to be lenient at this point, because there isn't a regular flow yet).

 

I think I understand the concern that if DCW IRL does indeed expand, we'll have complications. But you also mentioned that DCW IRL is self contained, and then you mention long spanning and across several threads, which gives me an idea. If you require all RPs to adhere to DCW IRL current standards: 30 days, 8 member limit, etc, the problem, at least to me, seems to be resolved. There no longer is the need for character logs of what each individual character does, because people are able to look through about 5-6 pages (which I believe is the average) of posts and remember what they did. Character information is traditionally kept in the OP, where it is easy to access.

 

The current system established with DCW IRL is that, as of now, only one round is able to proceed at a time. In time, if we get more interested people, we may raise that limit and allow multiple simultaneous rounds. Though, of course, we won't go rampant and allow 30. In that scenario, we would limit the amount of rounds that go at a time, so we don't have this confusion and mess, or at least it's decreased (having three threads is easier than trying to go through ten).

 

You again mention the constant moving of threads and "retiring" old threads to a subforum, which I believe is again concerns about having an additional workload on the moderators. And I say again, that there are people willing to make DCW IRL succeed. It's a budding idea, sure, and we may fail, but you must consider there are people willing to move the threads and moderate them, therefore taking that strain off the other moderators, who would be able to moderate the forum as a whole. They will take that "exponential trouble" you mention and they will take it in place of the global moderators.

 

Your final argument is that we don't have a large RPing community and the subforum is therefore entirely unnecessary. This is true, for the former, at least. And it's not just because we want to "find topics easier." It's not just for organization purposes. I believe that if people see a subforum for DCW IRL, it will get far more attention that it does right now just lingering in the Chatroom. This may result in increased activity. Maybe it won't.

 

And like KKLT said, we are not going to try to make DCW an RP site. It'll probably never be chiefly RP. Most people come here, and I acknowledge this, for the discussion. But I also wonder, if a newcomer participates in a single DCW IRL round, which requires 30 days of activity, and they will likely not just focus on DCW IRL, but the forum as a whole, could that increase activity as a whole for the entire forum? This is entirely speculation, and I have no facts to back this up, but again, it's a thought. Like this whole argument is.

 

I'm actually a bit touched that there are people that may be genuinely interested in seeing DCW IRL prosper. Am I seeing things? I sure hope not. And a subforum is probably one of the best ways to do so.

 

I want to see DCW IRL expand. It is like a child to me. I beg you, beseech you, implore you, please at least consider a subforum. But if it is not meant to be, I will understand.

 

This concludes my little talk.

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

No Moho. You are not seeing things. =X

I myself do want to see it grow as well. You're not alone. If you are, there will never be this topic at all. :V

[CarpetCrawler 280]

Or you could just make a directory thread that links to the other DCW IRL threads. Problem solved.

 

/Magic Kaito doesn't even have its own subforum guys

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

Or you could just make a directory thread that links to the other DCW IRL threads. Problem solved.

 

/Magic Kaito doesn't even have its own subforum guys

A directory thread? Can explain how this works? What will happen to the current threads then? (Sorry if I didn't manage to understand. Not used to these kinds of terminology.)

Oh yea. We don't.

(which seems pretty weird that nobody is asking for it, especially when it's so related to DC. O.o)

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Yes you can search for it. Use quotes, try it. I know it's possible because I did it. I really think the problem with a lot of users is that they don't effectively know how to utilize search queries.

And the issue of expansion is very real, mainly because of something called " Google" if you add a sub forum for role play it can and will show up on Google. Causing expansion that you may not expect. This thread merely discussing the idea already shows up!

You have an archive thread that links to everything, making it easier to find. An entire sub forum is just superfluous.

[CarpetCrawler 280]

Basically one thread that has links to every past DCW IRL thread, like an archived list of them.

[IdentityUnknown 216]

Basically one thread that has links to every past DCW IRL thread, like an archived list of them.

I think there is one (it's under the moderator thread for DCW IRL).

 

When I first started DCW IRL, I wasn't aiming to cause trouble, just have something fun to do on the side. Personally speaking, I would hope it wouldn't get too messy and while a subforum would definitely be nice, I don't think that it's something we should put a lot of effort into at the moment. Generally speaking, we have enough roleplayers to fill most of the ranks (not including special rounds) and having a roleplaying subforum (in my opinion) will not change too much. We try to explain roleplay as much as possible, though to really understand you actually have to participate (like many things in life). I think that those who are curious will try it if other members are encouraging.

 

Since we're only doing one round at a time, there's really no need in a subforum at this point. All we would see would be old DCW IRL rounds (which thanks to Moho, can be found in a compiled thread). Perhaps the reason why DCW IRL seems to crowd up so much of the chatroom is due to the fact that there are rarely any new threads created in the chatroom other than DCW IRL threads.

 

If we ever got into roleplaying to a greater extent with several rounds at the same time (or more, or a great deal of unmoderated threads), then organization would be more key. I'd say that until we've reached a point where DCW IRL has expanded past the "one round a time, 8 players per round" stage, we should put this matter to rest.

 

Again...my point is, it would be nice. It actually would. But again...DCW wasn't built as an RP website and I think that if DCW IRL gets too big, it should be moved to somewhere separate. I don't think nor want DCW IRL to become the only purpose of DCW...DCW is a wiki forum at heart, not RP forum.

 

I love that DCW IRL made a lot of you guys happy and entertained all of you, but I don't want to cause trouble for DCW either. Forcing DCW to become something other than what Maurice set out to do would be trouble.

 

If you guys are really interested in RPing, you could always try out a site called HexRPG. I know, it won't be the same. DCW is a community, a tight-knit one. But I'm not sure taking RPing to another level will help that.

[tengaku squared 291]

I think that I, with a few others, blew what would be a simple matter a bit too large. I agree with IU that we should probably put this matter to rest until DCW IRL becomes more active, at which point where having a subforum may be of increased benefit.

 

We can let DCW IRL expand on its own in the chatroom without having an additional subforum, though I still believe that having a subforum may increase activity not only for DCW IRL, but DCW as a whole. The reason why I do not want to move to a separate forum is because I remember a similar RP forum that was created by DCW members, and according to my knowledge, it died. Although DCW started out a wiki website, what could be bad about also allowing a unique RP element? There's still a wiki and there will always be wiki editors.

 

But I digress. I know I sound like a diehard by continuing to argue even though I started out retracting my support, but DCW IRL matters a lot to me. It matters to a lot of people, and I hope everyone understands that DCW IRL may soon become just as important as the wiki. Ah, that's just speculation.

[Kaitou Kid Legendary Thief 197]

Basically one thread that has links to every past DCW IRL thread, like an archived list of them.

 

I see. I think you meant an archive. Moho mentioned that in his thread. We have something like this already, and indeed each previous thread is easier to find this way (If you meant that we are looking for a particular thread.). Maybe I was a little ambiguous when I casually mentioned something about ease in finding threads. What I really wanted to explain in that point is, that we just wanted something simple, and not a very complexed or powerfully equipped kind of role-play sub-forum. Besides that, this isn't really the point of us wanting to creating a sub-forum. The actual point is probably to make it much more noticeable, also a more organized chat room (and probably a little more additional happy people :V).

 

As for the Role playing expansion problem...... hmm... I thought that letting it grow was one of the original intention...?  =|

 

By the way if you type role play detective conan in google, DCW IRL doesn't actually show up. What shows up is, another wonderful thread by Chelsea for an external Role playing forum, which regrettably, isn't visited much any more, despite being the very first result on the list. A separate forum solely for DC Role play isn't easily going to survive unless there is already a huge pool of members. This was tried twice(or more?). And twice failed. I guess people don't actually search for Detective conan role playing. :V There are a few more sites on the results page, but all of them are either dead or......  It is actually pretty amazing that DCW IRL actually managed to survive for so long despite only having one game at a time with only 8 players. As of now, honestly, I believe the chat room has the highest activity in DCW nowadays and (i believe) DCW IRL is one of the contributors. It is pretty much supported by a few of the regulars now, but it would be nice if it can be given a chance to grow.