[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 850-852 (Sakura Shrine Murder Case)

[Black Demon 466]

THIS THREAD is used to discuss about SPOILERS. In other words, if you only read the English version and wish to wait for the official release instead of getting spoiled, this is NOT the right place for you!

RULES OF THE SPOILER-ONLY DISCUSSION THREAD:

1. Any kind of spoiler involving the case (pictures, texts, information, full scans...) of any language that is released before the actual English version must be posted HERE. The English translations of the spoilers must also be posted here. Please DO NOT share them at the thread made for English-files readers only, in ANY form (NOT even in spoiler boxes).

2. Any kind of discussion involving the spoilers must be posted HERE. Please DO NOT reveal, give hints or talk about any information or event (that has not yet happened in the English releases) at the thread made for English-files readers only, in ANY form (NOT even in spoiler boxes).

3. Despite being a Spoiler-only thread, EVERY spoiler and discussion involving events that has not yet happened in the English releases STILL has to be put inside Spoiler boxes. When the mentioned file is officially released in English, this is not necessary anymore.

4. NO DIRECT LINK to Original Japanese scans (RAWs) or to ANY English manga scan because we don't want to have any problem with lawyers. (Japanese spoiler pictures are allowed as long as the amount and quality of which are very very far away from a full scan, like the ones we usually have).

Q&A:

1. Why is this whole thing necessary?
A: Please click here.

2. Why do I still have to use Spoiler boxes here?
A: In case some member (who only follows the English files) get confused, misclick, or just simply get in the wrong thread... etc., this rule is made NOT to let spoilers get revealed to them. And since this is quite complicated, confusions are unavoidable, especially for new members.

3. How do I use Spoiler boxes anyway?
A: Just simply type the following:

[spoiler]Text you want to write [/spoiler]

Or more manually:
Step 1: Click the "Special BBCode" icon at the upper-left side of the edit toolbar.

 
Step 2: In BBCode, select "Spoiler".

 
Step 3: Enter the text that you want to put inside Spoiler boxes, then click OK.


4. If the spoiler is not obvious enough to viewers (e.g. one must click a link in order to see it), do I have to use Spoiler boxes?
A: No, using link addresses is also a hiding method. Again the purpose of this is just to protect the spoilers and info. from being viewed by members who do not want to see them (but get in here by accident). However, you should STATE CLEARLY that it's a spoiler, just to make sure.

5. Can I join the discussion in the other thread as well?
A: Of course you can. HOWEVER, as mentioned in the rules above, you MUST NOT reveal, give hints or talk about ANYTHING that spoils.

6. Who are you anyway? Why do we have to follow YOUR rules?
A: Not mine. Chek suggested that it should be this way. Also, the person who create the threads must write the rules clearly on the very first post from now on, whether they want it or not; this applies to every member (not only me).

ANYWAY, everyone should read this whole post carefully before posting or viewing anything. If you are mistaken for not paying attention to it, the creator of the thread, the moderators and every other forum members will NOT take any responsibility.
 

---

Characters to appear in File 850:

Akai (possibly flashback), Haibara, Bourbon, Jodie, Camel, Vermouth.
 
HYPE !!!

[Akazora 293]

It's good to see there is very little downtime between plot related arcs now, because there's a lot that needs to be explained and soon.

[Black Demon 466]

File 850 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2189200523

 

So it turns out that...

Akai, Camel, Amuro, Vermouth are only flashbacks.

 

---

 

For a summary of the plot-related stuffs in this file, everyone can read it at the translation Cbox here.
 
I'll try to do some translations of the important dialogues:

Page 5

 

Jodie: So, what do you want to tell me ?

Conan: You said it before right, that you saw Akai with a burn mark ?

Jodie: Yes, it was from that bank robbery case...

Conan: That was not Akai. He was an accomplice of the Black Organization, a man named Bourbon, in disguise.

Jodie: What ?

Conan: It was to verify whether Akai was really dead or not... That's why he showed up with that appearance and wandered near Akai's 

acquaintances. If the FBI had planned to fake his death, then it could have been revealed by people's reactions. However, the person who helped him with the disguise, Vermouth, she disguised herself as Akai on that Bell Tree Express.

Jodie: Then the explosion on the Bell Tree Express was also committed by the Org. ?

Conan: It seems that way...

Jodie: Wait a minute... If the scar-faced man was a member from the organization, then...

 

Page 6

 

Jodie: Shuu... He's really...

If that scar-faced guy shows up next time, I'll grab him, rip off his disguise and make him show his real face.

Conan: I've already known that. And his whereabouts too.

Jodie: What ?

Conan: He calls himself Amuro Tooru, and works at Poirot, the coffee shop near Mouri Detective Agency.

Jodie: W-Why !?

Conan: That's what I want the FBI to investigate. He was supposed to have achieved his objective, but for some reasons he still stayed at Poirot.

Jodie: Objective ?

Conan: Oh, that...

Random man (I don't know how to translate his name because there's no furigana in the Chinese scan): Eh, could you be... ?

 

Page 7

 

RM: That foreign woman who was one of the hostages during that bank robbery case ?

Jodie: Eh ?

RM: Actually, at that time, I was slantingly behind you. The person who used tape to seal your eyes and your mouth was my wife. Did you already forget that ?

Jodie: Ah, yes... I still have some impressions... 

RM: Then could that scarred man sitting next to you be your boyfriend ?

Jodie: No, he's not... What's the matter ?

RM: No, there's nothing... I saw him two or three days ago... 

Conan & Jodie: Eehh ?

Conan: WHERE ? WHERE DID YOU SEE HIM !??

Jodie: ANSWER ME !

RM: Eh !?

 

Page 8

 

(The woman who claimed that there was a thief trying to pick her bag, and later becomes the victim, seems to recognize the random man...)

 

Page 9

 

(Insert random DB conversation)

Jodie: And then ? You still haven't remembered yet ? Where you saw that man...

RM: I was sick yesterday so my memory...

Conan: His voice is pretty husky... 

(Insert random DB conversation)

Jodie: Could it be in front of some canned-coffee selling machine ?

RM: Does he like canned-coffee ?

Jodie: Yes, he often drinks it... He also did that when the org. was about to attack the hospital...

Akai (flashback): I never forget the enemy's face...

 

Page 10

 

Jodie: Shuu...

RM: He must have been really tired... Dropping the coffee can like that... Anyway, that "attack" was... ?

Jodie: No, that's wrong. He and that scarred man are not the same person. 

RM: Hah...

Jodie: Forget it ! If you happen to recall that then contact me OK ?

RM: Alright.

Conan (thinking): That's strange. On the Bell Tree Express, Bourbon has obviously stated that he was sure about Akai's death. Then why did he still disguise as him ? WHY !?

 

Page 11

 

(Insert random DB conversation)

Haibara: The person called Akai whom you two were discussing about... What kind of person is he ?

Conan: What's the matter ?

 

Page 12

 

Haibara: I have the feeling that he really resembles someone that I knew...

Conan: It's probably just your misconception... Also Akai has already... 

[magicbulletgirl 11]

Wow, for serious Conan? That's how you were going to tell Haibara that Akai "died"? I'd like to know the conversations that have taken place between Okiya and Conan in that Conan continues going along with this whole "Akai is dead" farce.

...Because Conan HAS to know right?

But anyway, supposing the Scar!Akai seen 2-3 days ago was Amuro, it must have been near the Mouri Detective Agency because I'm sure someone, somewhere remembers seeing Akai watching the agency from the alley.

I'm sure Amuro has already put two and two together that a child was with the FBI when Rikumichi was "captured." After all, Rikumichi most likely called in and mentioned off the top of his head that a child had been in his room. That call would have taken place before Conan damaged Rikumichi's phone.

Let's not forget that Conan himself has not seen Scar!Akai. He only learned about his existence from the Detective Boys. Amuro might expect Conan to trust him if he presented himself as Akai to Conan.

[User 4869 100]

 I'm sure someone, somewhere remembers seeing Akai watching the agency from the alley.

 

Hey, that was from when real Akai stalks the agency after mouri cases record was stolen by Vermout

[Stopwatch 36]

I'll try to organise my thoughts somewhat now.

Random guy's voice was described as 'husky'. It's obvious he apparently has a cold, but that was still pointed out in particular. Aoyama often uses 'husky' voices as a sign that someone is trying to disguise their voice, but isn't very good at it. Also, he uses the sick excuse to get out of giving exact details on some information.

So, because of this and various other reasons I'm now going to go through I think that RM is actually Amuro disguised by Vermouth pretending to be one of the hostages in order to get reactions from Jodie.

I'll start out with the reasons why random guy must be lying about certain things. As BD pointed out in the cbox: "The victim recognizes him (or at least reacts to him), but it's not the other way around". Amuro wouldn't know the people the real RM does. He would be intending to get the reactions then get away and so there would be no need in his mind to need to know that information. The victim obviously knows something about 'RM' or she wouldn't react to him.

Then of course, 'RM' knew things it shouldn't be possible for him to know, such as Akai dropping the coffee can. This bit is odd, even if it does prove 'RM' isn't the real random hostage guy. A spy who was keeping track on the FBI wouldn't mention someone thing as small as Akai dropping a can, so it could only really be someone who was actually there (or saw it some other way?) who knew it. I'm not yet sure where this fits in, but it should be useful later.

Now, the real thing that gives away he's lying is that he apparently claims that the woman wrapping Jodie up in the hostage case was his wife. The people wrapping others up were supposed to be on their own in order for the robber's plans to work so if the woman was random guy's wife then she would have been with him, not wrapping Jodie up. Him saying this though, gives him an out. By pretending his wife was the one wrapping up Jodie he can say information about what happened during the bank case without coming off as suspicious for knowing it and paying attention to certain details. Amuro would obviously know about SA being near Jodie because, well, he was there.

Last thing I'll mention (though this is just from memory so I could be wrong) is that Amuro doesn't seem to creep Haibara out like the other BOs do which could explain her non-reaction to RM.

Anyway, this seems like another hunt for reactions, aimed at Jodie, but I'm not ruling out Conan.

Yeah, I don't know about a few things and how they would fit in (though Haibara seems to recognise Dai by the canned coffee thing and it seems others had paid attention to it too which I find interesting), but those were my general impressions.

Although, I also saw Akai as a possibility for a few reasons, but I put that at a much lower probability than Amuro.

[Aries Bless 18]

Let's think about the facts.

- The Scar Akai, Mr. 35 year(lets call him that, until we know his name. The age is the only thing we can use to seperate a character from the others) saw, can not be Vermouth, because she can copy any voice. There will be no need for her to make it husky.

- That means that the Scar Akai must be Amuro.

- If Amuro took the Akai-disguise again that means that he has began his reseach after Akai again.

Theories:

- If Mr. 35 year was sick that day he saw Scar Akai, so he may have see him from the window in his home or maybe on his way to a doctor or when he was at a store to buy medicin or a mask. So where does that man lived and what is the most liking way for him to get to a doctor or a store?

- Mr. 35 year asked 'does he like canned-coffee?'. Why? Would it be because he had seen Scar Akai drink something else? Something that is opposite to coffee?

- The place where Amuro shows up as Akai may be near the bank or Beika Departement, I can't think of a reason why.

- It could be possible that mr. 35 years is Bourbon in a new disguise(or may be hired by him), who has observed Conan and the other and now try to gets some informations out of Jodie.

 

So what do you think? I think that Jodie should be more careful about what she says. I know that she is sad about Akai's death, but she should still be careful or Akai would be dissapointed, right?

[Aries Bless 18]

New theory:

 

Maybe that man had never see Scar Akai. It could be a lie to have Jodie and Conan to talk to him, so he had a alibi for the time of the murder. That's something you should think about. 

 

I hope the english translate are going to be releast soon.

[PandoraDCFan 0]

If the man isn't Akai in disguise, he could tell the police everything Jodie said to him.

 

The police would like to hear more about an scar faced man and the attack at an hospital.

[Black Demon 466]

851 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2201162534

[Wildheart888 170]

Huh...I wonder who the pregnant woman at the end is...(Have we seen her before?)

[Akai1412 0]

I'll try to organise my thoughts somewhat now.

Last thing I'll mention (though this is just from memory so I could be wrong) is that Amuro doesn't seem to creep Haibara out like the other BOs do which could explain her non-reaction to RM.

.

This struck me as odd, because I'm sure Haibara has had the BO reaction from Amuro before. Chapter 800 when Subaru was driving to catch up to the woman who kidnapped Conan, she felt a strong presence "coming from behind" and Amuro was quickly speeding up behind them. I'm certain the reaction came from him. I'm not completely sold on the masked man being Amuro, unless of course Haibara is becoming less able to detect a member of BO,

[Stopwatch 36]

I was right. Wow. :x

(Btw, in file 800 Vermouth and Sera are also around, though it's possible Amuro also has an on-off switch like Okiya I guess?)

[Black Demon 466]

852 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2213767055

 

So basically this is the amount of information that...

Bourbon has learnt after file 852:

 

Things that Jodie and Conan revealed to him (not in order):

- Jodie and Conan's strong reaction when he said that he had seen "Scar Akai", and Jodie's later revelation that "Akai and the man with the burn scar are not the same person" indicating that they both have figured out that "Scar Akai" was a disguise. So he would most likely know that his cover has been blown by now.

- Because of the things above, it is now confirmed that Conan is definitely involved with Akai and the FBI. (But wait, this is not the most interesting part yet...)

- Akai likes coffee and has dropped a coffee can at the hospital (I'm not sure if this is important though).

 

Things that he heard by bugging Jodie:

- Jodie recalled the cellphone moment at the hospital. So now not only does Bourbon know that Conan is aware of the organization's existence and directly assisted the FBI in capturing Rikumichi, but he also discovered that both Rikumichi's and Akai's fingerprints were on Conan's cellphone.  While in 851 Jodie didn't specifically say it out loud that "Shuu picked up the phone" (it was only her flashback), but she did say that "And then, that phone, Shuuichi...", which is enough to figure out that Akai must have done something to the phone thus left his fingerprints. 

 

Since the bug was on Jodie, I'm not sure if he has also overheard the conversations between Conan and Haibara. Probably not.

 

Others

- Bourbon most likely knows who "Agasa" is by now. And he probably also noticed Haibara. 

 

Well, even though Bourbon and Vermouth did mess up at some points and Conan can use those clues to uncover them, but by that time it would have already been too late. Also, even if Conan finds out that the man is Bourbon in disguise later, it will still be pointless since he has already revealed enough fatal information to him.

 

Some translations by Henry1:

p15:

pregnant woman(pw): This is a surprising development that the man you dressed up had been robbed by a thief

man: I was thinking why that man didn't have a wallet. But, borrowing the man's back five-yen coin was a good choice...

pw: But you decided to go and give his wallet back to him.

man: if he make a big fuss later it would be bad right? There were bank card and driver's license in it as well...

pw: you should thank me... when you decided to put the listening device on that FBI cat's sleeve while she held on to your arm... (tough to translate exactly here)

I brought that device back for you

 

p16

pw: And then? (It is then revealed pw as vermouth and the man as Amuro) did you get any good info from that cat?

Amuro: Yes I got a lot. I also got some surprising insider information.

Vermouth: The info in the conversation, can you let me listen it?

Amuro: yes, when I get some proof I will tell you immediately. But let me say this first, that youngster(Conan) is a dangerous man.

[Detective Max17 1]

What did Vermouth mean by the truth concerning US (The Black Organization)?