[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 859-861 (The Prince of Kicks!)

[Black Demon 466]

THIS THREAD is used to discuss about SPOILERS. In other words, if you only read the English version and wish to wait for the official release instead of getting spoiled, this is NOT the right place for you!

RULES OF THE SPOILER-ONLY DISCUSSION THREAD:

1. Any kind of spoiler involving the case (pictures, texts, information, full scans...) of any language that is released before the actual English version must be posted HERE. The English translations of the spoilers must also be posted here. Please DO NOT share them at the thread made for English-files readers only, in ANY form (NOT even in spoiler boxes).

2. Any kind of discussion involving the spoilers must be posted HERE. Please DO NOT reveal, give hints or talk about any information or event (that has not yet happened in the English releases) at the thread made for English-files readers only, in ANY form (NOT even in spoiler boxes).

3. Despite being a Spoiler-only thread, EVERY spoiler and discussion involving events that has not yet happened in the English releases STILL has to be put inside Spoiler boxes. When the mentioned file is officially released in English, this is not necessary anymore.

4. NO DIRECT LINK to Original Japanese scans (RAWs) or to ANY English manga scan because we don't want to have any problem with lawyers. (Japanese spoiler pictures are allowed as long as the amount and quality of which are very very far away from a full scan, like the ones we usually have).

Q&A:

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1. Why is this whole thing necessary?
A: Please click here.

2. Why do I still have to use Spoiler boxes here?
A: In case some member (who only follows the English files) get confused, misclick, or just simply get in the wrong thread... etc., this rule is made NOT to let spoilers get revealed to them. And since this is quite complicated, confusions are unavoidable, especially for new members.

3. How do I use Spoiler boxes anyway?
A: Just simply type the following:
 

[spoiler]Text you want to write [/spoiler]

Or more manually:
Step 1: Click the "Special BBCode" icon at the upper-left side of the edit toolbar.

 
Step 2: In BBCode, select "Spoiler".

 
Step 3: Enter the text that you want to put inside Spoiler boxes, then click OK.


4. If the spoiler is not obvious enough to viewers (e.g. one must click a link in order to see it), do I have to use Spoiler boxes?
A: No, using link addresses is also a hiding method. Again the purpose of this is just to protect the spoilers and info. from being viewed by members who do not want to see them (but get in here by accident). However, you should STATE CLEARLY that it's a spoiler, just to make sure.

5. Can I join the discussion in the other thread as well?
A: Of course you can. HOWEVER, as mentioned in the rules above, you MUST NOT reveal, give hints or talk about ANYTHING that spoils.

6. Who are you anyway? Why do we have to follow YOUR rules?
A: Not mine. Chek suggested that it should be this way. Also, the person who create the threads must write the rules clearly on the very first post from now on, whether they want it or not; this applies to every member (not only me).

ANYWAY, everyone should read this whole post carefully before posting or viewing anything. If you are mistaken for not paying attention to it, the creator of the thread, the moderators and every other forum members will NOT take any responsibility.
 

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File 859 spoilers:

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1. Sera gets kicked by Makoto for "seducing" Sonoko LOL
2. Conan asks Sera who "-nii" from the last file is but she just smiles.

[Charala97 23]

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Sera has two elder brothers. One is dead and the other is alive. One of her brothers taught her Jeet Kun Do (didn't mention which brother). One of her brothers is very smart and helps her solve cases, she was talking to him in the previous case....(from DCTP)

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Click here to read the translation of the first few pages by Fujiwara from DCTP

I'm glad we are dealing with someone different looking. An identical twin or someone similar would have been a pain in the ass to deal with theory wise.

We know the brother is probably not Amuro because Sera presumably called her middle brother in chapter 800 at the same time Amuro was chatting with Vermouth.

Since Sera doesn't know where her brother is, I guess we can rule out a not-Akai-in-disguise Okiya being the middle brother, because she met him at Shinichi's place (although her reaction to Okiya was notable).

"Sera: During the case the other day he also told me that my deduction was unreliable, … but since you were there to come to the rescue if I was wrong …" It seems we are looking for someone familiar with Conan.

All the new semi-relevant male characters introduced in the Bourbon arc that are between 16 and 35 are: (35 chosen because we don't know Akai's age and 35 is probably a good guess for the upper limit)
Yamato Kansuke - Nagano officer (35)
Enomoto Sugihito - Poirot waitress Azuha's brother (28)
Morofushi Taka'aki (Koumei) - Nagano officer (35)
Ares Ashley - Minerva's tennis coach (30)
Amuro Tohru - Bourbon (29)
Onda Ryouhei - Kogoro imposter (21)
Haneda Shuukichi - Yumi's semi-ex-boyfriend (28)

I would axe Enomoto, Ares, and Onda for not being smart enough to give case advice. Amuro is out for phone call reasons. That leaves the two Nagano officers and Shuukichi. All three know Conan well enough and are smart enough to advise on cases. The two Nagano officers have had their pasts decently expounded upon, but I suppose that does not rule them out.

If we have to choose a known character, Shuukichi seems the most likely. He's identifies Conan's intelligence immediately. He is also busy collecting titles to the point where he secluded himself from Yumi, so he may not have told Sera what he has been up to as well. Akai could easily be lying about his age (27) as Okiya, but Shuukichi's 28 is something to think about.

Edit: reread Shuukichi's chapter:
• Shuukichi was noted by Yumi to be pale white, which Akai is.

Double edit: There is a plausible way for the second brother to be a new character. During the yet-to-be seen episode where Shinichi and Sera met somewhere with waves, Shinichi might have met the middle brother as well. If there was a case (likely because DC) and Shinichi did a good job as a kid, then the brother might have remembered Shinichi or kept up with his detective progress. If, when Sera calls the brother, she talks about Shinichi instead of Conan because she knows Conan's true identity, then the brother could say leave it up to Shinichi. It's not a great idea, but it's workable.

[Charala97 23]

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I think Sera's brother is someone who will be shown having a double tooth! They may not look alike, but they may have this one thing is common.... though its a BIG GIVEAWAY! I'm sure Gosho will try to lure us into thinking that her brother is someone like Shuukichi Haneda and in the end, it may be someone else.

[75aichan 49]

  On 5/18/2013 at 5:07 AM, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

Click here to read the translation of the first few pages by Fujiwara from DCTP

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I'm glad we are dealing with someone different looking. An identical twin or someone similar would have been a pain in the ass to deal with theory wise.

We know the brother is probably not Amuro because Sera presumably called her middle brother in chapter 800 at the same time Amuro was chatting with Vermouth.

Since Sera doesn't know where her brother is, I guess we can rule out a not-Akai-in-disguise Okiya being the middle brother, because she met him at Shinichi's place (although her reaction to Okiya was notable).

"Sera: During the case the other day he also told me that my deduction was unreliable, … but since you were there to come to the rescue if I was wrong …" It seems we are looking for someone familiar with Conan.

All the new semi-relevant male characters introduced in the Bourbon arc that are between 16 and 35 are: (35 chosen because we don't know Akai's age and 35 is probably a good guess for the upper limit)

Yamato Kansuke - Nagano officer (35)

Enomoto Sugihito - Poirot waitress Azuha's brother (28)

Morofushi Taka'aki (Koumei) - Nagano officer (35)

Ares Ashley - Minerva's tennis coach (30)

Amuro Tohru - Bourbon (29)

Onda Ryouhei - Kogoro imposter (21)

Haneda Shuukichi - Yumi's semi-ex-boyfriend (28)

I would axe Enomoto, Ares, and Onda for not being smart enough to give case advice. Amuro is out for phone call reasons. That leaves the two Nagano officers and Shuukichi. All three know Conan well enough and are smart enough to advise on cases. The two Nagano officers have had their pasts decently expounded upon, but I suppose that does not rule them out.

If we have to choose a known character, Shuukichi seems the most likely. He's identifies Conan's intelligence immediately. He is also busy collecting titles to the point where he secluded himself from Yumi, so he may not have told Sera what he has been up to as well. Akai could easily be lying about his age (27) as Okiya, but Shuukichi's 28 is something to think about.

Edit: reread Shuukichi's chapter:

• Shuukichi was noted by Yumi to be pale white, which Akai is.

Double edit: There is a plausible way for the second brother to be a new character. During the yet-to-be seen episode where Shinich and Sera met somewhere with waves, Shinichi might have met the middle brother as well. If there was a case (likely because DC) and Shinichi did a good job as a kid, then the brother might have remembered Shinichi or kept up with his detective progress. If, when Sera call the brother, she talks about Shinichi instead of Conan because she knows Conan's true identity, then the brother could say leave it up to Shinichi. It's not a great idea, but it's workable.

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Even if I think the same as you when I read the translation,I really hope it's not Shuukichi.

 

I don't like his behaviour,he reminds me too much Eisuke,which is not good XDXD

 

Moreover it's a bit too easy for me,the name Shuukichi is almost identical to Shuuichi,and he appeared very recently.I would be disappointed if that was him,I think I would like him to be a new character from Shinichi's past.

I wonder if we can use Gundam references to guess who he is...

Concerning Akai,I thought he was 27 or 28 like Jodie,but as you said he could have lied about his age.I guess he's 29 like Amuro

INow we know that Akai and Sera looks like their mother,I hope she'll appear soon^^

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

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Regarding the case, the suspect was drowned and his legs are soaking wet. What if one of the suspects filled up an umbrella and laid him facedown in it after he was drugged (and sleeping in a car like Makoto was doing). The vic's legs got wet because he was in a puddle. The umbrella was then dumped out and carried away. The victim was then moved into the toilet.

[magicbulletgirl 11]

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So let me see if I have this straight. Okiya/Akai=Dead eldest brother who taught her JKD (has to be because he blocked Ran). And right now we're trying to figure out who the "smart" 2nd oldest brother is...

 

At this point I'm betting on new character. It's getting close to that time of year Gosho does something big. We've all thought backwards and forwards how Okiya is Akai - to think that maybe instead Okiya impersonated his older dead brother during mystery train is just getting too convoluted. Oh wait, it's Gosho :V

 

But in all honestly, I think it's unlikely that both of Sera's siblings practiced JKD.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

  On 5/20/2013 at 7:32 AM, magicbulletgirl said:

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So let me see if I have this straight. Okiya/Akai=Dead eldest brother who taught her JKD (has to be because he blocked Ran). And right now we're trying to figure out who the "smart" 2nd oldest brother is...

At this point I'm betting on new character. It's getting close to that time of year Gosho does something big. We've all thought backwards and forwards how Okiya is Akai - to think that maybe instead Okiya impersonated his older dead brother during mystery train is just getting too convoluted. Oh wait, it's Gosho :V

But in all honestly, I think it's unlikely that both of Sera's siblings practiced JKD.

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I thought about the possibility that Okiya is impersonating Akai, but I don't think that works. The Okiya that we know seems to be Shuuichi Akai. The evidence is...

• Sera says the middle brother doesn't look like the eldest brother (Akai) or her. The Okiya we know from the train had the Akai-like eyes.

• The Okiya we know talks to Haibara like he knows her and her sister while on the train, mentioning how he can predict their moves. Middle brother would have had to be acquainted with them too.

• The Okiya we know has the Org vibe. If Okiya were the middle brother, he would have had to be in the Black Organization too. The Okiya we know also recognizes the senior Black Org members (Gin’s Porsche and Chianti) and gives Amuro a good glare when getting off the train. The middle brother would also have to be highly ranked to know them.

• Ran feels like she met the Okiya we know from somewhere, and she gets that feeling even though Okiya and Akai are superficially pretty different looking. Ai also feels Dai is like the Okiya we know.

• The Okiya we know has all of Akai's habits: left handed, similar expressions, likes bourbon, smokes, etc.

• The Okiya we know has the promise to a gender specific "her" which regards Haibara's wellbeing. Akemi was with Akai. If the middle brother were acting on Akai’s behalf, then Okiya would have a promise to him instead.

• Yukiko, the disguise artist, has been over at the Kudo house somewhat regularly (825).

• The Okiya we know probably left the warning message on the coaster for Jodie at the dept store, which means that the middle brother would have to know the FBI as well.

• The Okiya we know knew how to work Conan’s tracker glasses despite them looking pretty ordinary. Akai saw the glasses several times.

That said, Okiya Subaru may be the middle brother, it’s just that Akai stole his appearance. If that is the case, then Sera may being lying to Conan about not knowing where he is and pretending not to know him in the Kudo house.

[magicbulletgirl 11]

I waited all day to read that reply and I got Chek-ed XD *definition: left with nothing to say*

 

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No in all seriousness, for me the only factor is how Yukiko has been helping Okiya. Once that's cleared up, I feel we'll know more about the situation. If Sera's words are truth, and not a red herring, knowing more about Okiya will only help. Shame he hasn't shown up as much lately.

[Black Demon 466]

@Chek: I've just asked Fujiwara in the Cbox because there seems to be ambiguity in Sera's words regarding the phone call.

 

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She told Conan: "During the case the other day he also told me that my deduction was unreliable… but since you were there to come to the rescue if I was wrong…"

 

But this can very well be understood that the second part was Sera's own comment and not her brother's, like: "Hey, my bro told me that I suck. But I don't care because you were there and you could help me out."; and not "....he also told me that my deduction was unreliable AND THAT you could correct me since you were there" like we usually interpret.

 

Fuji said that "The Japanese version has a certain ambiguity about it in that sense, but it goes more in the direction of 'But I thought that since you were there …'" Therefore, the second brother doesn't necessarily have to know about Conan's ability, he may not even know him at all. (Or he may, but we can't tell for sure atm). So he could be anyone.

 

I personally think that this way of interpretation makes more sense because Conan would at least have reacted when knowing that her brother, whom he has never met, knows that he is intelligent enough to correct Sera's deduction. That's also why he wondered if Sera knew his identity as Shinichi.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

  On 5/21/2013 at 12:37 PM, The Black Demon said:

@Chek: I've just asked Fujiwara in the Cbox because there seems to be ambiguity in Sera's words regarding the phone call.

 

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She told Conan: "During the case the other day he also told me that my deduction was unreliable… but since you were there to come to the rescue if I was wrong…"

 

But this can very well be understood that the second part was Sera's own comment and not her brother's, like: "Hey, my bro told me that I suck. But I don't care because you were there and you could help me out."; and not "....he also told me that my deduction was unreliable AND THAT you could correct me since you were there" like we usually interpret.

 

Fuji said that "The Japanese version has a certain ambiguity about it in that sense, but it goes more in the direction of 'But I thought that since you were there …'" Therefore, the second brother doesn't necessarily have to know about Conan's ability, he may not even know him at all. (Or he may, but we can't tell for sure atm). So he could be anyone.

 

I personally think that this way of interpretation makes more sense because Conan would at least have reacted when knowing that her brother, whom he has never met, knows that he is intelligent enough to correct Sera's deduction. That's also why he wondered if Sera knew his identity as Shinichi.

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Nice info! It doesn't change a whole lot though in terms of speculation. New characters have always been on the table. For known characters, there aren't a whole lot of highly intelligent young male characters who have appeared during the Bourbon arc. We have Shuukichi and Amuro (and maybe a "real" Okiya that Akai disguised as) and that's about it.

[Glass Heart 34]

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Is it possible that Sera-san's brother might be inspector Komei ?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

  On 6/9/2013 at 11:38 AM, Glass Heart said:

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Is it possible that Sera-san's brother might be inspector Komei ?

 

Koumei is 35 I think. Akai would have to be older, and he doesn't seem that old. Haneda Shuukichi, a "real" Okiya (not Akai-Okiya), or a new character makes the most sense to me right now. There isn't real evidence that can rule out Koumei though, only hunches.