Shuukichi Haneda Discussion Thread

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

Two phones is fine, but three? Even for an FBI agent who's faked his death, that's a bit much.

Not only that, but if Gosho shows that he has a third phone out of nowhere, it would also show that Gosho put himself in a corner and had to pull up something out of nowhere to explain it.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Re: this whole phone conversation

 

Keep in mind that tech turnover in DC follows real life time passage, not in-comic time passage because Gosho doesn't want his characters to appear old-fashioned. If they are upgrading phones in line with real-life phone schedules, then there really is no problem. (Although it becomes much harder to match phones.)

 

I'm not convinced that Gosho is being very careful about drawing the phone models. Before making conclusions on Shuu and bro's phones, I think you all should also evaluate the attention-to-detail and art progression of other characters's phones (Ran, Conan, Ai) as controls because we know they aren't switching models all that frequently.

 

Two phones is fine, but three? Even for an FBI agent who's faked his death, that's a bit much.

People who routinely use burners (because they are doing illegal things and trying to evade law enforcement monitoring) may switch as frequently as weekly or monthly. After Amuro's showdown with Okiya, Shuu should probably switch his phone just in case Amuro did some DC magic hacking ahead of the showdown.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Keep in mind that tech turnover in DC follows real life time passage, not in-comic time passage because Gosho doesn't want his characters to appear old-fashioned. If they are upgrading phones in line with real-life phone schedules, then there really is no problem. (Although it becomes much harder to match phones.)

 

I'm not convinced that Gosho is being very careful about drawing the phone models. Before making conclusions on Shuu and bro's phones, I think you all should also evaluate the attention-to-detail and art progression of other characters's phones (Ran, Conan, Ai) as controls because we know they aren't switching models all that frequently.

 

True—the discrepancy between Shuichi's/Subaru's phones in File 843 and File 898 could be merely due to Gosho not caring about the continuity.

 

People who routinely use burners (because they are doing illegal things and trying to evade law enforcement monitoring) may switch as frequently as weekly or monthly. After Amuro's showdown with Okiya, Shuu should probably switch his phone just in case Amuro did some DC magic hacking ahead of the showdown.

 

So that's what they do, huh? Thanks for the info! 

 

So Rei/Tooru can do magic hacking, as well? All he did in File 814 was know Kogoro's password in advance. Wait... what does Scarlet Showdown, as in File 894–File 897 (and File 897 is considered the end of the Bourbon arc—File 898, where we see Shuichi's/Subaru's phone, is considered the start of the Rum arc), have to do with the question of the middle brother's and Shuichi's/Subaru's phone(s)?

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

What truly bothers me about the 2nd brother besides the fact who he is (although most probably to be Shukichi), is the other fact as claimed by Sera herself that the middle brother is 'smart' while the eldest Shuichi is 'strong' comparable. If so, then could be that the 2nd brother actually knows all about his older brother whereabouts and the kind of job he is taking. I mean we are talking about a guy who is smarter compared to a man who is able to think on par with Shinichi, does that mean the 2nd Brother is smarter than both Shuu and Shinichi. If that is the case, then he is a master genius, following that Shuu would try his best to get his brother into the same job he is having. As Shuu like sera would know his brother to be smarter and therefore would have a better chance at exploiting and confronting the BO, unless Shuu is arrogant and cannot give up on himself or that he loves his brother to much than to let him be in danger. But seeing as Shuu is quite smart he would probably know better, but we don't as of the moment ..

[Serinox 127]

First of all, this description comes from Sera, who doesn't know that Shuu is in the FBI apparently and who doesn't know that Shukichi is a legendary Shogi player. Her description could come from their childhood, where Shuu always did the work (strong) and Shukichi always talked a lot (smart). What she says can hardly be a real factor when it comes to judge the true capabilities of each brother.

 

Furthermore, Shukichi is pretty smart yes, he has an amazing memory and is the best Shogi player alive and the second one ever who managed to achieve all 7 titles. However, that doesn't mean that he is better than Shuichi or Shinichi at solving cases. The two times he investigates with Conan, he manages to solve the mystery roughly at the same time as Conan or slightly after him, which is about the same time Shuichi usually needs to solve cases too. I doubt Shuu would willingly get his brother involved, just because he is as smart as him, there's simply no need. Also, I doubt Shukichi deduced what kind of job Shuichi was doing, at least from what we can tell in the series. Doesn't look like he gave much of a damn about his family and focused on playing Shogi.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

First of all, this description comes from Sera, who doesn't know that Shuu is in the FBI apparently and who doesn't know that Shukichi is a legendary Shogi player. Her description could come from their childhood, where Shuu always did the work (strong) and Shukichi always talked a lot (smart). What she says can hardly be a real factor when it comes to judge the true capabilities of each brother.

 

Furthermore, Shukichi is pretty smart yes, he has an amazing memory and is the best Shogi player alive and the second one ever who managed to achieve all 7 titles. However, that doesn't mean that he is better than Shuichi or Shinichi at solving cases. The two times he investigates with Conan, he manages to solve the mystery roughly at the same time as Conan or slightly after him, which is about the same time Shuichi usually needs to solve cases too. I doubt Shuu would willingly get his brother involved, just because he is as smart as him, there's simply no need. Also, I doubt Shukichi deduced what kind of job Shuichi was doing, at least from what we can tell in the series. Doesn't look like he gave much of a damn about his family and focused on playing Shogi.

True to that, and you are right when it comes to Sera and her judgments. But she is in contact with her 2nd brother if we guess right. And to be able to say thinks on par like Shinichi and Shuu, but also being described as having photographic memory something neither Shinichi nor Shuu has been described as but implied as gives us an edge over the more honed abilities of the 2nd brother..But he might be a key character that his memory bill bring clues to light...we will live and see..

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Actually, Shukichi solved the case in his intro before Shinichi/Conan (File 847–File 849/Episode 731 and Episode 732)—it was his words that ultimately led to Shinichi/Conan solving the case. Masumi could've described Shuichi as strong and Shukichi as smart because Shukichi wasn't exceptional in the physical realm, rather than because Shuichi wasn't as smart as Shukichi. If Shukichi just solved both cases on his own, then Shinichi/Conan would have nothing to do, right? I don't think Gosho wants that. Shuichi/Subaru giving Shinichi/Conan the hint to solve a case—just like Shukichi did—(File 812–File 814/Episode 690 and Episode 691) was followed by an action sequence, and Shuichi/Subaru didn't follow Shinichi/Conan, Ran, Sonoko and Masumi to the scene. Not many people can reason on par with Shinichi/Conan, and let's not forget that Shuichi/Subaru also reasoned on par—not ahead of—with Shinichi/Conan (File 638–File 640/Episode 510 and 511; File 664–File 666/Episode 542 and Episode 543), just like Shukichi did in File 899–File 902/Episode 785 and Episode 786. That's one time ahead of and two times on par with Shinichi/Conan for Shuichi/Subaru and one time ahead of and one time on par with Shinichi/Conan for Shukichi.

 

Gosho keeps dragging this middle brother question on, thus keeping us in the dark about Shukichi's relationship with his family. We don't know about the extent of his knowledge about his brother's or their mother's situation.

 

He probably is the DC equivalent of Mycroft Holmes, though—him wanting to end that match with Tanimori early so he could go to his wife makes him differ from Mycroft, in that respect—he prefers not to engage in the activities that his brother and sister do. If he's kept Yumi waiting so long, then his family probably experienced similar things. Still, their reaction was probably the same as Yumi's—annoyed, exasperated and frustrated, but ultimately, he was worth all that.

[Guest]

He probably is the DC equivalent of Mycroft Holmes,

 

but Akai Shuuichi is the older brother that works for the government in DC >_>

 

*runs away*

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

but Akai Shuuichi is the older brother that works for the government in DC >_>

 

*runs away*

 

 

Shuichi is that Mycroft; Shukichi is the other.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

 

Shuichi is that Mycroft; Shukichi is the other.

That's the thing..if Shuukichi is Mycroft and Shuu is Sherlock.. What is the position of Shinichi.. (Lol all of them have the Sh and Ichi in their names)..we know Shinichi is a lonely child, but we know nothing of the Kudo's family members besides the ones we already know (going off topic)..

Shuukichi would probably know about his brother's life but may choose to not engage since he knows that Shuu knows Shin hi therefore being in a safe hands he relies on them to help each other..leaving him unnecessary, yet for a character that is as smart as Shin and Shuu but with no engagement of hunting the BO (as of yet) is kind of frustration and lousy.. But now that I think about it..Kudo Yuusaku who is supposedly the smartest character does not engage that much on the hunt except maybe for disguising as Okiya..

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

But now that I think about it..Kudo Yuusaku who is supposedly the smartest character does not engage that much on the hunt except maybe for disguising as Okiya..

 

That's right.

 

As for Shukichi's awareness of his family's situation (especially that of his brother and mother)... we'll have to wait until it's confirmed that he's the middle brother. Since I've been convinced that Shuichi/Subaru is the one who's been in contact with Masumi, with her telling everyone that Shukichi's the one she's been in contact with, what Shukichi knows is still in question.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

That's right.

 

As for Shukichi's awareness of his family's situation (especially that of his brother and mother)... we'll have to wait until it's confirmed that he's the middle brother. Since I've been convinced that Shuichi/Subaru is the one who's been in contact with Masumi, with her telling everyone that Shukichi's the one she's been in contact with, what Shukichi knows is still in question.

Although I might disagree on Shuuichi pretending as Shuukichi.. I agree on Shuuichi's awareness as of now...

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I disagree on Shuuichi pretending as Shuukichi...

Why? Gosho could've simply showed us it was Shukichi who was in contact with Masumi. Instead, he shows us a bunch of strong hints—you know, strong hints like the ones he showed us before... the ones that tried to make us think Jodie was Vermouth (270–428/227–344), Andre was a BO spy (599–603/497–500), or Subaru was Bourbon (638–821/510–702). Why not just show him putting Yumi on hold in File 929 and show him actually talking to Masumi? Instead, it just implies that Shukichi put Yumi on hold so he could talk to Masumi—what's the point of that if not to try to throw us off?

 

Since Shuichi is supposed to be dead, and, thus, shouldn't be talking to Masumi at all, who better to pretend to be than their own brother, someone who could speak with Masumi, and, thus, no one would question it—plus, she could just rattle off things about Shukichi if she's asked about him. She's got no reason to tell Shinichi/Conan that she's really in contact with Shuichi—Shuichi hasn't told her where he is or what he's doing, which is why she doesn't know that he's working with Shinichi/Conan, leaving her no reason to tell him.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

Why? Gosho could've simply showed us it was Shukichi who was in contact with Masumi. Instead, he shows us a bunch of strong hints—you know, strong hints like the ones he showed us before... the ones that tried to make us think Jodie was Vermouth (270–428/227–344), Andre was a BO spy (599–603/497–500), or Subaru was Bourbon (638–821/510–702). Why not just show him putting Yumi on hold in File 929 and show him actually talking to Masumi? Instead, it just implies that Shukichi put Yumi on hold so he could talk to Masumi—what's the point of that if not to try to throw us off?

 

Since Shuichi is supposed to be dead, and, thus, shouldn't be talking to Masumi at all, who better to pretend to be than their own brother, someone who could speak with Masumi, and, thus, no one would question it—plus, she could just rattle off things about Shukichi if she's asked about him. She's got no reason to tell Shinichi/Conan that she's really in contact with Shuichi—Shuichi hasn't told her where he is or what he's doing, which is why she doesn't know that he's working with Shinichi/Conan, leaving her no reason to tell him.

The one thing supporting this is in the newest chapters in which Conana starts to deduce Sera's relation to Shuu. But as to why it is because Shuu is trustful of Conan but still have doubts, while Shukichi seems more trsuting of Conan and therefore he is more the type to say ' if it is him then it is all right'..

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Shuu is trustful of Conan but still have doubts

Explain, if you would.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

Explain, if you would.

He did complain about Conan's presence when taken away by Vermouth and Shuu was about to shoot her but called his name in annoyance, he did trust Conan with backing his plan to go undercover as dead. Yet Conan who does trust Shuu doesn't reveal his identity to him, and Shuu likewise trusts Conan but within a limit as he does't even tell Conan about Sera and his 2nd brother. 

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

Why? Gosho could've simply showed us it was Shukichi who was in contact with Masumi. Instead, he shows us a bunch of strong hints—you know, strong hints like the ones he showed us before... the ones that tried to make us think Jodie was Vermouth (270–428/227–344), Andre was a BO spy (599–603/497–500), or Subaru was Bourbon (638–821/510–702). Why not just show him putting Yumi on hold in File 929 and show him actually talking to Masumi? Instead, it just implies that Shukichi put Yumi on hold so he could talk to Masumi—what's the point of that if not to try to throw us off?

 

Since Shuichi is supposed to be dead, and, thus, shouldn't be talking to Masumi at all, who better to pretend to be than their own brother, someone who could speak with Masumi, and, thus, no one would question it—plus, she could just rattle off things about Shukichi if she's asked about him. She's got no reason to tell Shinichi/Conan that she's really in contact with Shuichi—Shuichi hasn't told her where he is or what he's doing, which is why she doesn't know that he's working with Shinichi/Conan, leaving her no reason to tell him.

Btw, do you think that Sera knows Akai is Subaru? Or do you just think that Sera knows Akai is alive but has no idea were or who he is now?

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Conan who does trust Shuu doesn't reveal his identity to him, and Shuu likewise trusts Conan but within a limit as he does't even tell Conan about Sera and his 2nd brother. 

 

Of course Shinichi/Conan doesn't reveal his identity—everyone who now knows the truth, except Agasa, had to figure it out on their own—he's paranoid enough not to tell anyone in the FBI... though the fault is on Jodie and James for not making the connection, at this point. After all, they know that Ai Haibara is Sherry—they know that she shrunk. Just basic knowledge about Shinichi Kudo on either of their parts would give them an explanation as to why Conan Edogawa is so smart, and why he, a seven-year-old, is going after the BO.

 

The thing about the Bourbon arc was that the protagonists who know about and are fighting the BO were keeping info from each other, including info that might've been more helpful if it wasn't hidden. 

 

When you think about it, all Masumi has done, since she arrived, has brought questions—most of these still remain unanswered. She didn't play much of a role in Mystery Train or any at all in Scarlet Showdown. Plus, according to Gosho, she doesn't know about the BO. In other words, the effect she's had so far hasn't warranted Shuichi/Subaru telling Shinichi/Conan—and that's ignoring that Shinichi/Conan has made the connection, himself. Just as Shinichi/Conan tries to keep those close to him out of the loop, Shuichi/Subaru has done the same. Since he didn't tell Shinichi/Conan about his quite frankly vital suspicions that Bourbon was a spy much earlier, why would he have reason to bring his family into this? He doesn't know about MG; Shukichi is probably out of the loop, too, just as much as Masumi.

 

It's not a lack of trust, in respect to his family—its the fact that his family has little relevance (for now) and it's a Bourbon arc precedent.

 

Btw, do you think that Sera knows Akai is Subaru? Or do you just think that Sera knows Akai is alive but has no idea were or who he is now?

 

She only knows he's alive—he wouldn't tell her where he was or what he was doing.

 

Remember her line in File 859/Episode 744? "It seems that he's in the middle of an important job right now and won't even tell me where he is..."

 

But that's the line about her middle brother, right? It is—she's pretending that her older brother, who's supposed to be dead, is her middle brother, Shukichi (Shuichi's/Subaru's and MG's reaction to Shukichi's victory in File 902/Episode 786 and Masumi's description of her middle brother in File 929 are the biggest signs of there being an actual middle brother, and that brother being Shukichi), who she doesn't have to make up; she doesn't create her middle brother ex nihilo—he already exists. She tells the truth about his physical appearance, but makes it seem that he's the one off doing something important, and advises her in cases over the phone. Add to this the additional fact we just learned in File 938.

 

Shuichi is the one who inspired Masumi to become a detective, not Shukichi.

 

Does she really know about Shukichi's whereabouts or what he's doing? Her reaction to MG watching Shogi and her being creeped out by MG's reaction to it have people thinking she doesn't. However, we only see her go "Shogi?" upon seeing what MG is watching, and we only see her go "What's with that creepy reaction?" to MG's reaction. We don't know her subsequent thoughts—for the former, she could've thought about Shukichi in a subsequent thought bubble, and for the latter, it could be that she's just not used to MG being so jubilant that it's a really jarring moment for her. There's also the possibility that she doesn't know that Shukichi is not only a pro shogi player, but the pro shogi player.

 

Right now, I stand by the theory that Shukichi is Masumi's and Shuichi's/Subaru's brother, but that Shuichi/Subaru is the one in contact with Shukichi, and Masumi is telling everyone that she's in contact with Shukichi. If Masumi made up a middle brother—if she and Shuichi were the sole siblings, if Shuichi/Subaru and MG are just fans of Shukichi's, and if Masumi's made-up description of her likewise made-up middle brother to Yumi just happened to be like Yumi's description of Shukichi—then Shukichi pretty much becomes the male equivalent of Naeko. I'll only approve of this turning out to be the case if Shukichi's going to play a role in the main plot, in spite of not being the middle brother.

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

She only knows he's alive—he wouldn't tell her where he was or what he was doing.

 

Remember her line in File 859/Episode 744? "It seems that he's in the middle of an important job right now and won't even tell me where he is..."

 

But that's the line about her middle brother, right? It is—she's pretending that her older brother, who's supposed to be dead, is her middle brother, Shukichi (Shuichi's/Subaru's and MG's reaction to Shukichi's victory in File 902/Episode 786 and Masumi's description of her middle brother in File 929 are the biggest signs of there being an actual middle brother, and that brother being Shukichi), who she doesn't have to make up; she doesn't create her middle brother ex nihilo—he already exists. She tells the truth about his physical appearance, but makes it seem that he's the one off doing something important, and advises her in cases over the phone. Add to this the additional fact we just learned in File 938.

 

Shuichi is the one who inspired Masumi to become a detective, not Shukichi.

 

Does she really know about Shukichi's whereabouts or what he's doing? Her reaction to MG watching Shogi and her being creeped out by MG's reaction to it have people thinking she doesn't. However, we only see her go "Shogi?" upon seeing what MG is watching, and we only see her go "What's with that creepy reaction?" to MG's reaction. We don't know her subsequent thoughts—for the former, she could've thought about Shukichi in a subsequent thought bubble, and for the latter, it could be that she's just not used to MG being so jubilant that it's a really jarring moment for her. There's also the possibility that she doesn't know that Shukichi is not only a pro shogi player, but the pro shogi player.

 

Right now, I stand by the theory that Shukichi is Masumi's and Shuichi's/Subaru's brother, but that Shuichi/Subaru is the one in contact with Shukichi, and Masumi is telling everyone that she's in contact with Shukichi. If Masumi made up a middle brother—if she and Shuichi were the sole siblings, if Shuichi/Subaru and MG are just fans of Shukichi's, and if Masumi's made-up description of her likewise made-up middle brother to Yumi just happened to be like Yumi's description of Shukichi—then Shukichi pretty much becomes the male equivalent of Naeko. I'll only approve of this turning out to be the case if Shukichi's going to play a role in the main plot, in spite of not being the middle brother.

Everything you said makes sense, but why would Masumi lie to everyone and tell them that her middle brother is the one talking to her? If Akai was contacting her after Mystery Train then she wouldn't have told them that he was dead to begin with, instead of telling them that he's dead and that she's talking to her middle brother? Also, assuming it's Akai who's talking to her, does that mean he knows that Shinichi is the wizard? Since he asked her if she already met him. 

[Serinox 127]

After all, they know that Ai Haibara is Sherry—they know that she shrunk.

The thing is: they don't know, at least from what we can tell. They know that Ai is apparently Sherry, because Vermouth called her that, but we have no evidence that they know that Sherry is supposed to be an 18 year old teenager. Jodie questions Vermouth, whether Ai and the woman from the picture on her dart board could really be the same person, but she never gets a straight answer; she also doesn't figure why Vermouth calls Conan "Cool Guy", a nickname that is proper for someone of his age in Jodie's eyes, instead of "Cool Kid". We know that Akai knows, but we can't say the same for Jodie; Akai already figured out that Ai is Shiho before the confrontation with Vermouth, yet he didn't tell Jodie.

 

The confrontation in the harbor with Vermouth make it seem very likely that Jodie knows, I know. But here's the big BUT: we have never got any 100% confirmation that she knows and if Detective Conan told us something recently, then it is even something seems incredibly likely, it can't be safely assumed unless it's undoubtedly confirmed. I assumed that Conan knew that Sera is Akai's sister until earlier this year and when I asked everyone shrugged and said "But he should know, right?". Well, turns out in the recent chapters that he didn't same know. I also read about people being shocked about learning that Jodie didn't know that Conan is Shinichi in the Scarlet Return. As of now, Jodie doesn't know Ai's identity is what I'm saying.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

As of now, Jodie doesn't know Ai's identity is what I'm saying.

 

Of course Shinichi/Conan doesn't reveal his identity—everyone who now knows the truth, except Agasa, had to figure it out on their own—he's paranoid enough not to tell anyone in the FBI... though the fault is on Jodie and James for not making the connection, at this point.

 

I'm not disputing what is clearly a fact—Jodie doesn't know that Conan = Shinichi. The same likely goes for James.

 

What I am saying is that there's not much in the way of her figuring it out.

 

James says in File 677/Episode 563, "Bourbon's target is likely that little girl known as Sherry." We then see Shiho/Ai—not Shiho. They know she's shrunk—that's clearly an adult on the dartboard, and there's no way a seven-year-old was a codenamed member of the Organization.

 

With this in mind, it wouldn't take Jodie and James such to realize that Conan Edogawa is Shinichi Kudo.

[Serinox 127]

Again, we have no evidence that they know. They call her little girl, they assume Bourbon is after her because she is connected to the FBI and not because of what she could know as a rogue agent and the picture in the backround when Jodie and James talk in 677 is Ai, not Shiho. Yes, they could know and they probably should know, but as I stated, what characters could and should know is often not what they actually do know.

[75aichan 49]

Again, we have no evidence that they know. They call her little girl, they assume Bourbon is after her because she is connected to the FBI and not because of what she could know as a rogue agent and the picture in the backround when Jodie and James talk in 677 is Ai, not Shiho. Yes, they could know and they probably should know, but as I stated, what characters could and should know is often not what they actually do know.

Exactly.They don't know that Ai is a shrunken adult,they only know that the BO call her Sherry,and she's connected to them in some way.But they don't know about her real situation.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

they could know and they probably should know

That's what I'm saying—that's it.

 

They don't know that Ai is a shrunken adult, they only know that the BO call her Sherry,and she's connected to them in some way. But they don't know about her real situation.

You mean that it's never really been addressed whether they know or not.

 

You'd think—again, you'd think, not know—that Shuichi would've told the others about her appearance (Shiho's). It's still unconfirmed whether the FBI knows that Ai Haibara is Akemi's sister.

 

Why would Masumi lie to everyone and tell them that her middle brother is the one talking to her?

Because Shuichi is supposed to be dead. This information leaking to the BO would be very bad—that goes without saying.

 

If Akai was contacting her after Mystery Train then she wouldn't have told them that he was dead to begin with, instead of telling them that he's dead and that she's talking to her middle brother?

Could you rephrase this, if you don't mind?

 

Also, assuming it's Akai who's talking to her, does that mean he knows that Shinichi is the wizard? Since he asked her if she already met him. 

The wizard is probably Shinichi/Conan—if Masumi told her brother about this wizard right after meeting him (right after the Shinichi/Ran/Masumi flashback), he could've deduced who he'd become, in the ten years or so since his sister had seen him, upon meeting Shinichi/Conan, or learning his identity (File 813).

[Serinox 127]

That's what I'm saying—that's it.

No, that's not what you were saying. You were saying:

 

 

 After all, they know that Ai Haibara is Sherry—they know that she shrunk.

 

We then see Shiho/Ai—not Shiho. They know she's shrunk

 

Which I'm arguing is not the case. I wasn't talking about them knowing Conan's identity, I'm talking about them knowing Ai's.