[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 876-878 (Sera's Hotel Murder Case)

[Black Demon 466]

878 Chinese: http://bbs.aptx.cn/thread-269973-1-1.html

 

The last part (translated by Conan#1):

 

Page 16:

Sera: "Listening device...so it hides inside the temple tips..."

Mystery girl: "So close, so close...since I never seen this pattern... Due to the size of battery, it may last just a short while... this shape with this function is interesting..."

Sera: "Then, are you interested on him now?"

Mystery Girl: "Not to the point can be trusted, if he can't bear it and try to investigate me, then you answer... I am your...little sister outside the territory..."

 

Last page side note: Details Already Known...1) Close Relationship With Sera, 2) Calm Analysing Skill, 3) Frail In Health...?, 4) [Little Sister Outside The Territory]...?? Next Issue Is Heiji Series!!!

[magicbulletgirl 11]

@BlackDemon:

I hope you can provide some clarification. The "bug" Sera and X-chan destroy is not the bug Conan usually uses when eavesdropping. He usually has the "dot" piece when he means to spy on someone and from what I see of the pages (in both 877 and 878) Conan didn't purposefully plant it. Was he carrying the spare glasses in his backpack and did X-chan take them out?

[Black Demon 466]

That's all it says unfortunately. I don't think there is any clarification on where they found the bug (except that it's from a pair of glasses) or whether Conan planted it on purpose or not. But looking at page 15 where he's attempting to listen to something, I highly suspect that he left the bug on purpose (unless Conan somehow predicted that "X-chan" would find his backpack suspicious and took the bug out to examine it, thus did the job for him, before he reclaimed the pack). Since he goes home with his backpack, he must have removed the bug and secretly left it there at some point, assuming that the bug was inside his pack all along.

[75aichan 49]

Agh. Two weeks break. Bourbon is certainly behind this.

 

Why the paranoides Haibara never found bug in Agasa home is beyond me (Evil Okiya planted them). Sera and this little girl can easily. Or is it just Conan just a bad spy.

Akai has more skills concerning spying people than Conan,and he may have more efficient,discreet listening device than the ones made by Agasa...

 

Anyway the theory about the shrunken brother makes sense to me...He could have been forced to take APTX from the BO,and then he tries to hide his identity by deguising as a girl.So when Conan try to investigate on him,Sera will just say it's her "little sister".

The territory thing reminds me Okiya's words...I kinda miss him...

[Black Demon 466]

About the...

 

..."territory" thing, I'm not sure whether it's the same "territory" that Okiya used. I don't have access to the Raw so I can't tell if the Kanjis are the same.

[premiumemo 37]

You know what... If everybody related to Protagonists kept just shrinking wouldn't it be odd....

I mean the drug was created to kill... Now we haven't seen anyone getting murdered by it but getting more and more people shrunk, it might get a little irrational...

[Black Demon 466]

You know what... If everybody related to Protagonists kept just shrinking wouldn't it be odd....

I mean the drug was created to kill... Now we haven't seen anyone getting murdered by it but getting more and more people shrunk, it might get a little irrational...

 

The drug wasn't created to kill, its true purpose is still unknown, the killing is actually its side-effect and the BO was using this side-effect to their advantage against Shiho's will. There was also a list of APTX4869 victims and all of them (except Shinichi) was confirmed to be dead.

 

We still don't know for sure whether this child was also another victim of APTX4869 or not.

[ALAKTORN 170]

Why are the raws so far behind? 877 still isn’t out in Japanese… I so badly want to read the chapters, but I don’t know Chinese. ._.

[ALAKTORN 170]

About the...

 

..."territory" thing, I'm not sure whether it's the same "territory" that Okiya used. I don't have access to the Raw so I can't tell if the Kanjis are the same.

Could “outside the territory” mean “from abroad”?

[ALAKTORN 170]

Just read the raw of chapter 878.

The “outside territory” kanji are 領域外, make of that what you will. But I wanted to mention something else. The child says 答えなさい (kotaenasai) to Sera, and as far as I know, the -nasai conjugation is something mothers always use when speaking to their child, and I don’t recall any brothers or such ever using it. (Although it could be a father I guess, and teachers in schools also use it to students, but I think that’s irrelevant to the child.)

[Lolime 4]

Hopefully this is just me, but I feel like Gosho's been focusing too much on Masumi lately and somehow 'forgetting' Okiya and Bourbon. Gosho's been mentioning Masumi as the biggest-character-since-Haibara in an interview (sorry but I really forget which interview and it's aorund 2012 if I'm not mistaken, but I'm sure you'll find it on this site or through googling though) but still, I'm being suspicious to whether this's gonna be another red herring, false flag, or something like that :s

[75aichan 49]

Hopefully this is just me, but I feel like Gosho's been focusing too much on Masumi lately and somehow 'forgetting' Okiya and Bourbon. Gosho's been mentioning Masumi as the biggest-character-since-Haibara in an interview (sorry but I really forget which interview and it's aorund 2012 if I'm not mistaken, but I'm sure you'll find it on this site or through googling though) but still, I'm being suspicious to whether this's gonna be another red herring, false flag, or something like that :s

Yeah I read that too,I guess it's true...But I'm quite surprised that she's a bigger character than Akai or Vermouth,according Gosho's word.

Anyway it's not a reason to give her so much spotlight...I'm getting an overdose of Sera lately XDXD

We almost forgot Okiya,and Conan isn't even worried about Bourbon,that's a shame...

 

 

@Alaktorn:it's really interesting,so the child could also be Sera's mother who took APTX...I personally prefer that theory... but it seems that the brother is more likely the child.

[PetePete 8]

Wouldn't that mean she tried it after 'if' forced. If she/he was forced i think the black organization would start wondering why bodies after taking this pill started disappearing dont you think?

[MeitanteiSonoko 7]

File 875-878 Spoilers:

 

After File 878, or after the last page of it to be precise, it became obvious that our mysterious little lady aren’t regular Junior High girl. Well, it was obvious since very beginning, but now it’s officially confirmed. OK, so who is she? The most popular theory for the moment is that she is Masumi-san’s mother shrunken by the APTX4869 (or similar) drug. Me and a lot of other fans came to this conclusion right after File 876. But there was not enough facts back than. Now there’s much more. So, let’s look at them.

 

 

• In Files 775-777 Masumi got and deleted photo of Haibara Ai.

• In File 875 it was shown that mysterious girl have the same eyes with Masumi and Shūichi.

• In File 876, when Sonoko asked Masumi about if her mother still in America, Masumi answered «Yeah…» like she was supposed to tell a lie, while wasn’t ready for such a question.

• In File 876 Masumi said she have no other relatives aside of mother and two brothers, one of which is «dead».

• In File 877 Conan described mysterious girl as a Junior High student.

• In File 878 mysterious girl coughed, while she was in bed on photo.

• In File 878 mysterious girl showed that she have a knowledge about electronics and told that she saw some wireless listening devices before.

• In File 878 Masumi asked mysterious girl if she like Conan or not, while blushing.

• In File 878 mysterious girl told Masumi to tell Conan that she’s her little sister to hide the truth about her.

What can we get from that? We can get that theory about mysterious girl being Masumi-san’s mother is probably true. Masumi knew that Conan is Shinichi from very beginning and she was sure, while even Ran, who was his closest friend, aren’t sure. Masumi knew that it’s too dangerous to keep Ai's photo on her PC. Masumi wasn’t sure when she told Sonoko that her mother still in America. Girl coughed, while, as we know, APTX4869 antidote works when person have cold (maybe it’s somehow related to the shrinking part too). Girl looks too smart for a regular Junior High student. While it’s pretty obvious that Masumi like Shinichi since a long ago and she always blushing near Conan, question about if mysterious girl liked Conan, or not may be like a question to mother about if she like daughter’s fiancé, or not. And, the most important, mysterious girl decided to pretend to be a sister, therefore, she isn’t. So, she’s not a sister, while she have the same eyes with Masumi and Shūichi. The most logical conclusion – she is their mother.

 

But it’s only the beginning. Because it’s time to build some fresh theories! Since there’s a big question – how in the world information about Silver Bullet project leaked from Kuro no Soshiki (The Black Organization). And the most interesting theory for me is that APTX4869 itself aren’t leaked, but was made by Masumi-san’s mother. Mysterious girl looks smart enough to be a scientist. And if we imagine that she’s a scientist who works on Silver Bullet project outside of Kuro no Soshiki, we can get a very interesting picture of events. Because if Akai / Sera family got the information about Silver Bullet project for a long time already, then this family may be part of something really big. Bigger than FBI. Why? Let me explain.

 

 

If Akai / Sera family was deep in the Silver Bullet thing, then Akai-san’s work for FBI may be a part of their plan. What plan? To get closer to James Black, who’s my favorite candidate to be Ano Kata (That Person), mysterious boss of Black Organization. About James Black being Ano Kata, please, read this entry in my blog. The whole thing may be planned by the family from very beginning. If James is Ano Kata, or at least very important member of Organization, then family can make Akai-san enter FBI to be closer to him.

 

But where did the family learned about Silver Bullet project? Another bold assumption – from Miyano family. If Masumi-san’s mother (let’s call her like this for now, OK?) is a scientist, she may know Miyano family for a long time and we don’t know much about Miyano family’s death. Pisco said about accident, but there was no details. If Miyano family was about to leave the organization and shared information about Silver Bullet with friends, then everything makes sense. Or even more – Miyano family knew that they’ll be killed, shared information about Silver Bullet project with their trusted friends and asked to help them to get their daughters out from Organization. Akai-san’s contact with Akemi-san may be not just to enter Organization, but to get both sisters out eventually. Remember, he was often around both Akemi and Shiho as Rye. It fits surprisely well.

To make it short, we may have a family that plays with both FBI and Kuro no Soshiki. Family, deeply involved with Silver Bullet drug and probably connected with Miyano family.

[ALAKTORN 170]

Your theory is really interesting, MeitanteiSonoko.

The latest Sherry’s Soliloquy image says that she resembles the mysterious child, could that be a hint to mean they’re related?

I’ll be waiting for Chekhov’s rebuttal…

[75aichan 49]

Your theory is really interesting, MeitanteiSonoko.

The latest Sherry’s Soliloquy image says that she resembles the mysterious child, could that be a hint to mean they’re related?

I’ll be waiting for Chekhov’s rebuttal…

Maybe Sherry means the mysterious girl looks like her in terms of her behaviour,and not physically...

[ALAKTORN 170]

^Well, that’s hard to say.

[PetePete 8]

The only problem I have with the James Black theory is that Gin states the drug has never been tested on humans yet, and they said Akai joined the fbi like 4 years prior so...

[MeitanteiSonoko 7]

PetePete, 

 

There's a Vermouth with her endless youth, so I can't see how that's a problem ^^;;

[PetePete 8]

Haha that is true.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Your theory is really interesting, MeitanteiSonoko.

The latest Sherry’s Soliloquy image says that she resembles the mysterious child, could that be a hint to mean they’re related?

I’ll be waiting for Chekhov’s rebuttal…

I'm not going to do much additional work on the child identity problem until some more clues come up. It's been analyzed to death by a bunch of people already. The main reason the mother theory is as popular as it is is because we only have one female Akai we haven't seen, the child looks like a girl, and is wearing girls clothes. (And maybe talks femininely, but I haven't seen the raw text.) Normally that would be pretty indicative of gender, but we already have had one Akai family trap already who thinks it is acceptable to pretend to be male when it is convenient. (See bathroom use in Blush Mermaid.)

Regarding the mother theory in general, if I assume that the child is the mother shrunken, then it really bothers me that the clues presented so far only consist of appearance (big boobs, looks like Shuuichi and Masumi), location (America, which would be a lie in this context), and possible history (maybe met Ran in the past). Usually mystery people whose identities we don't know yet are doing things rather than just existing in the story. Bourbon was activated and put on a mission about Sherry, Vermouth has something she wants to look into in Japan so she isn't going back to America, the boss is contacting his subordinates and ordering them about. Doing things is usually what differentiates suspects from clues that are people (in this case the mom would be a hint about what to expect the middle brother to be like).

If I had to pick an APTXed Akai family member theory (instead of another non-shrinking theory), I'd choose the brother over the mother despite the girl look. The brother is doing things in Japan (contacting Masumi). It continues the trend of misleading-looking Akais. The cough bothers me for the same reason. Why have the child be sick at all? In Detective Conan, coughing like that typically implies a rough voice, so it will sound gender ambiguous when the anime rolls around, or to anyone listening in on bugs. When flipping back to the Makoto case when Sera texts her brother, I noticed again that the hand on the phone looks like the style Gosho uses to draw young people vs older males like Okiya and Amuro. That's merely my impression rather than an objective observation; I didn't bring it up back then because Gosho's not perfectly consistent with hand styles and there was no reason to suspect the brother could be a child at that point.

Re MeitanteiSonoko's theory about the Silver Bullet and a Miyano connection, there is no evidence. We haven't heard about anyone other that Elena and Atsushi working on Silver Bullet, nor anything about Silver Bullet being used on someone (excluding APTX 4869 here). That doesn't mean it didn't happen, but without evidence, one story is as good as any other.

James Black has a good alibi against being the boss. In Kir's introduction case, when Gin asked the boss by phone for permission to kill Kogoro, James was driving the car with Jodie and Conan in it. He couldn't text Gin back without Jodie and Conan noticing.

[User 4869 100]

Say James is high rank BO member but not the boss. The alibi part is out, but his "failure to act on critical intelligence, contradictory behavior" still applied.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Say James is high rank BO member but not the boss. The alibi part is out, but his "failure to act on critical intelligence, contradictory behavior" still applied.

Besides, it's not Gosho's style to do "the good guy was really a bad guy" plots. Gosho truly loves logical outcomes. You see it in the way he sets up his cases and his Black Organization arcs. In order to make a surprising conclusion, Gosho gives his characters weird traits like "super secretive even with allies" or special abilities like disguise and puts them in odd situations instead of the having them act in a way that isn't logical.

Gosho never makes the answer to a case hinge on something that someone did "just because." Gosho's strict adherence to logical action is why the AO Secret of the High Sales is well remembered and highly rated by fans. Gosho would never write an illogical case like that (except maybe as a joke), so when it happens it's shocking.

There's going to be a perfectly logical reason why someone felt the need to create a super-secret elite criminal organization made of strange people researching bizarre age altering compounds. In order for it to be logical though, the person who created the Organization is going to have to be someone with weird characteristics in a weird situation. (My favorite no evidence story right now is that the boss was in love with someone, like Shinichi is with Ran, but the boss had some lab accident that caused him to shrink and stop aging. He can't be with the person he loves (like Conan and Ran now), so he starts trying to research a recreation of the drug to give to her so she can be like him. He doesn't have the money though and no one would believe a kid, so he starts a criminal organization for research funds.)

[ALAKTORN 170]

(And maybe talks femininely, but I haven't seen the raw text.) Normally that would be pretty indicative of gender, but we already have had one Akai family trap already who thinks it is acceptable to pretend to be male when it is convenient. (See bathroom use in Blush Mermaid.)

I’ve got something to say about this…

When the child used the -nasai conjugation (typical mother behaviour), she was talking alone with Sera, so there would be no reason to “act” to hide something, right? If it turns out that was a red herring, it’d be pretty stupid in my opinion. So if the child is actually her brother, it may be possible that it’s a character trait for him to be using -nasai with his sister (although I’ve never seen that before), and on that note I’ve got a question: can somebody ask the translators if in their interactions so far, the brother has used -nasai conjugations before? Alternatively, if someone told me when their interactions happened, I could go check the raws myself.

Tomorrow I might be able to discuss this with my Japanese teacher, she’s also following the manga.

[PetePete 8]

James Black has a good alibi against being the boss. In Kir's introduction case, when Gin asked the boss by phone for permission to kill Kogoro, James was driving the car with Jodie and Conan in it. He couldn't text Gin back without Jodie and Conan noticing.

 

Also Ai never felt any fear or reaction around James neither, you know how she can "pick up" the feeling of a BO member nearby? He was outside the door when Ai was talking to Jodie, nothing happened.

 

With your Kaitou Kid scenario about how the original Kid was trying to send a warning to Kudo seems wrong to me, remember Kudo's father DID read the note after Shinchi showed him the challenge after saying lets go to the beach and then responded with a ! 

 

BUT BACK TO THE TOPIC!

 

Chekhov i actually like the middle brother scenario you brought up. If this girl/guy is in junior high and took the pill, wouldn't it only regress them by 10 years, that would make that girl younger then her actual son Akai wouldn't it? Think of the max age then add 10 to it, seems unlikely for that age to be a mother, but as a middle brother between Akai and Masumi, seems very likely. Also by the way that translation seems, that kid speaks in a serious tone, similar to Ai maybe? Remember on that soliloquy remember she said she either looks like me or is like me I'm not exactly sure, maybe there's a connection besides her taking the pill?

By the way:

 

 

File 875-878 Spoilers:

After File 878, or after the last page of it to be precise, it became obvious that our mysterious little lady aren’t regular Junior High girl. Well, it was obvious since very beginning, but now it’s officially confirmed. OK, so who is she? The most popular theory for the moment is that she is Masumi-san’s mother shrunken by the APTX4869 (or similar) drug. Me and a lot of other fans came to this conclusion right after File 876. But there was not enough facts back than. Now there’s much more.

Where did you find this copy of translated text at?

 

The part when the child says "This one is different from what I've seen before" does the child mean as a listening device, or compared to the last listening device he used? If the child means compared to that last listening device used then its pretty safe to say that the child knows who Conan really is, just as Masumi knows who he is.