Mary Discussion Thread

[Black Demon 466]

Since this most likely won't be revealed any time soon, I'm making a discussion thread regarding the recently introduced middle-school girl's identity, motives, role in the plot... etc. Anyone who has any speculations about this character can post their comments here.

Spoilers should be covered with spoiler tags of course.

NOTE: Since Conan assumes that this character is female, I used the pronouns "she", "her" for convenience (instead of "they", "them", "he/she", "him/her"....), however she may very well be a male in disguise.

P/S: If anyone wants to add another specific option to the poll above, you can tell me or another moderator.

[j.v233 8]

Maybe that girl is also shrunk by the drug. She seems like a smart and intelligent girl:-? Kids at her age are usually not as sharp as her

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Crossposting ideas from this thread for reference, but I'm not committing to any theory without more evidence as of 01/06/14. My vote is just a weak hunch at this point. This poll is amazing by the way.
Original post, 27 October 2013
Update 22 November 2013
Minor Update, 6 January 2014

 

Theory is out of date, it was last updated 6 January 2014!

Index
Known facts about the child
Speculation
....Conan suspected Masumi was warning someone to hide in the text to her brother
....Conan suspects there is something important about the child
....Conan's assumption that the child is a girl should be taken with a grain of salt
....Reason why Masumi would show Conan the child's picture
Theories about the identity of the child
....Facts about Masumi's family
....Detailed Breakdown of various identity theories
........Masumi lied about the number of siblings she has or the relatives that she has
........Masumi doesn't know the child is a blood relative of hers
........The child is not considered part of Masumi's family by Masumi
........The child is an offspring of one of Masumi's older brothers
........The child is in fact one if her family members, implying they were shrunken somehow.
............The middle brother shrunk
............Masumi's mother shrunk
............Akai Shuuichi shrunk

  Reveal hidden contents

Known facts about the child:
• Conan thinks the child is female. Outfit appears to be a high-neck pleated top, hoodie jacket, and hat. A pleated top, assuming that is what it is, is considered female-only clothing in Japan as far as I know.
• Child has neck length, blond, curly hair. It's noted to resemble Char Aznable's.
• Middle school aged-looking according to Conan, so approx 12-15 years old. Height is intermediate between Conan and Ran.
• Has eyes like Akai Shuuichi.
• Highly likely to have been hiding in Masumi's bedroom. Masumi preventing Conan from entering the bedroom and the child was later shown emerging from her room later (876).
• Conan thinks Masumi showed the child's picture to him intentionally, although the purpose is unknown.

Some notes about the facts
• Wearing a hat indoors is somewhat secretive, but also common for Akai family.

Speculation

Conan suspected Masumi was warning someone to hide in the text to her brother
Conan seems surprised that Masumi would so quickly cancel a meeting with her brother (876: pgs 4), especially after Masumi noted earlier that she has no idea what the brother has been doing of where he has been. (859: pgs 6-7) Conan gets the suspicious "..." watching Masumi text her brother happily, suggesting that she is doing something he finds suspect. Conan then decides to pry around the apartment, something Masumi in turn was alert to. Since the child in the photo was shown on the bed, Conan may have just been intending to match the patterns with his memory of those he saw on the phone picture to ascertain where the photo was taken. That said, I think Conan is assuming Masumi's text was a warning to stay hidden, especially after he was blocked from the bedroom.

Conan suspects there is something important about the child
Conan chases after the child in the crowd in a hurried and almost panicked fashion. The last time he did that sort of thing was when Scar Akai appeared and when he thought Bourbon might have gotten some serious information. That doesn't imply the child is evil, but certainly suggests that Conan thinks the child is important enough to track down immediately and get emotional about. Bugging the room pretty much confirms Conan's intentions as well as his belief that the child is not bad because he risked his bug being found and traced back to him.

Conan's assumption that the child is a girl should be taken with a grain of salt
Conan could very well be correct about the child being a girl. That said, Masumi already fooled Conan into thinking she was male. Androgyny might be a recurring theme for the Akai family. Even though the child appears in girl's clothes, if the child is a boy in hiding (wearing a hat indoors suggests this may be the case) then they may be using their androgynous appearance as a simple disguise.

Reason why Masumi would show Conan the child's picture
Conan thinks Masumi deliberately showed him the picture of the child in 875. Masumi has also been relatively free with information regarding her family. It may be that she is inviting Conan to make a deduction about the child's identity.
If Conan is wrong about why Masumi wanted him to retrieve her phone, I can only think of a few other options. Maybe she wanted his fingerprints? If that is the case, couldn't she have gotten them already from something else he touched? Maybe she left the camera on and was filming his face close up as he collected it? Maybe it was recording his voice? (If it is the voice, Masumi could have purchased a recorder earlier, or recorded Conan during the deduction scene.)

Theories about the identity of the child

Facts about Masumi's family
This is the information about Masumi's family she has given us so far. Most of it is self reported, so if she is lying everything goes out the window.
• Masumi's nuclear family consists of five individuals
....• A father who is dead
....• A mother, well endowed, currently living in America. Resembles Masumi and the eldest son.
....• An oldest son, thought to be dead, who looks like Masumi and his mother. Heavily implied to be Akai Shuuichi.
....• A middle brother living in Japan who doesn't look like Masumi, Shuuichi, or their mom.
......Smart as opposed to strong, probably 28-29 years old, and has been advising Masumi on cases by phone.
......His whereabouts and work are unknown according to Masumi. His last name isn't Sera or Akai.
....• Sera Masumi herself

Masumi claims that she doesn't have any more relatives close enough to depend on. (876 pg 3) It is unclear whether this means that her family are all the relatives she has, or she could have more relatives, but they aren't close enough to support her. She says she is being financially supported by one of her dad's friends. The identity of this backer is unknown currently.

This information appears to exclude another blood relative in Masumi's nuclear family, which confuses Conan. That leaves us with a few options
• Masumi has lied about the number of siblings she has.
• Masumi has lied or does not know about (i.e. doesn't know they are related by blood) having additional relatives she is close with, one of which is the child.
• The child is not considered part of Masumi's family by Masumi.
• The child's strong resemblance to the Akai family is coincidental.
• The child is an offspring of one of her siblings.
• The child is in fact one if her family members, implying they were shrunken somehow.

Detailed Breakdown of above listed ideas

Masumi lied about the number of siblings she has or the relatives that she has
If the child is another blood sibling, the span of her mother's childbearing years is minimum 13-14 years, assuming they are born of a single mother. Also I would expect to see clues that Masumi lied about her family per the Gosho-writes-solvable-mysteries-which-means-there-should-be-clues-somewhere principle.

If the child is a relative of Masumi's then it doesn't explain why she would want to show Conan the picture, unless she was afraid of letting Ran and Sonoko know she had relatives.

Masumi doesn't know the child is a blood relative of hers
In these cases it is unclear why Masumi would want to show Conan the photo of someone she doesn't think is related to her.
• Masumi's backers may be blood relatives of the Akai family, but Masumi does not know this yet. The child is related to her backers.
• The child is a secret offspring of the father or mother. It is unclear when Masumi's father died. If he had a child by another woman, then it is possible that the child was raised with that other woman instead, and Masumi was not aware of the relationship. Also, if somehow her mother concealed a pregnancy from Masumi, it's possible that the child is a secret sibling.

The child is not considered part of Masumi's family by Masumi
One solution is that Mrs. Akai remarried and had another child after the death of her first husband, who had Shuuichi, middle brother, and Masumi. Masumi for some reason doesn't consider this step-child a part of her family. This sort of logic seems weird to me, but maybe there is customary thinking to explain this?

The child is an offspring of one of Masumi's older brothers
• Her middle brother is 28/29 which would make him a teen parent if that was the case.
• Shuuichi is older and theoretically could have had a relationship with another woman early on. That said, Shuuichi hasn't acted like he has a child (unless the woman he impregnated kept the child secret from him). Jodie is 28 and would have been a teen mom. No past girlfriends of Shuuichi old enough to have had the child are known to exist.

The child is in fact one if her family members, implying they were shrunken somehow.
The APTX 4869 theory.
Gin mentioned that Shinichi was the first, or at least one of the first people APTX 4869 was tested on. That is backed up by Haibara implying that the Black Organization hadn't been using it as a poison for too long. Her test of APTX 4869 on Numabuchi was blocked by him escaping. That implies that any shrinking going on will be recent in the case of APTX 4869, or really old to the tune of 18 years if Silver Bullet is involved. Silver Bullet was never mentioned as being tested on people, so APTX 4869 is more likely. Haibara, in her intro case, did give a warning that she thought more people might shrink which would be disastrous if discovered, so Shinichi should hurry up and make Kogoro famous and break the Org.

A shrunken person would explain why Masumi showed Conan the child on her phone, inviting him to figure out that he and the child have the same problem. If Conan thinks he is dealing with a shrunken child, it explains why he took off running after the kid in an extreme way and bugged their room.

Then there is the problem of why anyone would be dosed with APTX. Amuro trying to lure out Shuuichi by killing one of his family? The person got caught investigating something?

The middle brother shrunk
Out of all the various candidates, the middle bro makes the most sense. If he is the child, he looks different from Masumi and Shuuichi with his light hair color, something Japanese people are sensitive to. I could see Masumi saying he looks different from she and Shuuichi, even though their eyes are similar. If the middle brother is feminine-looking to the point where he is mistaken for a woman (in contrast to Masumi's masculine appearance) then the brother might be posing as a female child because it is a convenient disguise, especially if he doesn't know who is trustworthy. The middle bro has failed to tell Masumi where he is and what he is doing and refused to allow Masumi live with him, all things he would be doing if he was trying to hide his shrunken state from her, or what Masumi would say to others if Masumi was covering for him.

It's strange that Masumi appears to have realized Conan is Shinichi (see discussion on The Wizard), but she hasn't informed her middle brother (who is in a similar state) about this discovery and working with Conan prior to the Makoto parking lot bathroom drowning case. If she knew her brother was shrunken, I would think that she would try to probe Conan to figure out what happened earlier on. She hasn't done so yet.

The only way I can reconcile this is if the brother had been keeping his shrinking a secret from Masumi up until the text message with Conan's picture in the Makoto parking lot drowning case. Then he himself figured out Conan was Shinichi (maybe he met Shinichi in the past too). In between Twin Bets and Red Woman, he broke his prior secrecy and called a meeting with Masumi because he wants info on someone else with his condition. Masumi takes a picture of her brother at this time and shows it to Conan in the Red Woman Case, hoping Conan will figure out there is someone else like him too. Masumi really did intend to meet with her brother at the hotel where she claims to be living now (which is different than the short hotel she was shown to be living in before.) She changes plans to have Conan, Ran, and Sonoko come over so that the brother could get a look at Conan for himself, and so Conan can learn more about her brother's shrunken state. In case they see her later at a different hotel (the one where Masumi really lives), Masumi lies about moving out soon. Masumi keeps Conan from going in the bedroom is so he doesn't realize she doesn't live there (and because the brother was hiding in there). The brother wears a hat indoors when going to the scene of the crime in order to be sneaky.
This explanation doesn't account for how the brother knew Conan was a good detective. (He would have had to know about Conan ahead of time - see middle brother theories on knowing Conan is Shinichi)

If the brother is the child, that means as an adult, he probably looked a bit like Okiya, because siblings typically have similar builds. That would explain Masumi's instant startled reaction to Okiya, but uncharacteristic failure to follow up on any suspicion later. She realized he wasn't who she thought he was at first.

Masumi's mother shrunk
Well the child would be a girl. I don't really know what else to add onto this. Masumi's mother hasn't been active in the storyline the way the middle brother has. Masumi said her mother was in America, which could be a lie. Almost all the other information about Masumi's mother is physical appearance related. Maybe the mother met Ran in the past, because Masumi asks Ran to back an assertion that her mother is big chested, implying that Ran must have seen her in the past.

Akai Shuuichi shrunk
Shuuichi is definitely Okiya, so this doesn't work.

Characteristics Okiya possesses that Shuuichi has, but the middle bro might not have:
Black Org feeling
Ran's feeling they have met before
Quote "Don't make that face" and Haibara's feeling Okiya and Shuuichi are similar
Knowledge on how to operate Conan's tracking glasses despite not having seen them before as Okiya
Able to "predict Shiho and Akemi Miyano's moves"
Likes bourbon whiskey.
Left handed.
The presence of Yukiko while Okiya was living in the Kudo house. Yukiko is good in disguise.

[MelonyMutou 0]

I'd like to add on to chekhov's post a little - just a LITTLE. Because all of that was put very beautifully and every little bit of it is true and I really can't see ANY flaws except one tiny one.

 

We're all virtually positive Okiya is Shuichi, but stop for a second and consider, what if he IS the second brother, and he's simply helping Shuichi hide out? Shuichi is dressing up as his brother and, MOST OF THE TIME WE'VE SEEN HIM, it's Shuichi, but there was ONE scene (and it's debatable whether it was actually him - what if it was Yuukikou? She's superb at disguise, so maybe she HELPED Shuichi disguise himself better, or maybe she was able to disguise herself better) where Okiya SHOWS his neck and part of his upper chest while brusing his teeth. This scene came almost JUST AFTER I believe the girls had been gossiping about the fact he always keeps his neck hidden - almost like it was on purpose on either Gosho's part or on Okiya's part, Gosho trying to screw with us and say "nope that theory's incorrect" OR on Okiya's part, him specifically doing much more to his disguise himself because he somehow caught wind that people were getting suspicious that he was keeping his neck/throat area hidden. Again, it's possible this was just better disguising - it IS possible to disguise oneself that far, it's just FAR more time-consuming, hence the reason NORMALLY he'd just go with the mask when NOT trying to convince people of something - OR maybe it was the REAL Okiya that time.

 

If Okiya is a REAL person and Shuichi is simply disguising as him in public, it could explain some things. Though you know, I'd hope that Gosho would try and hint this to us occasionally - though to be fair, he kind of has, with that whole bathroom scene in the first place. You'd think maybe Conan might notice that it seems like more than one person was living in his house - because Shuichi and Okiya would inevitably both be living there, as discreetly as possible - but maybe his mother visiting skewered any possibilities to discover any clues on that end?

 

It would also explain why Sera says her middle brother is living seperately and all that, and now she's starting to have second thoughts on whether Shuichi is dead or not because of the mystery train case, meaning she could have even learned about the fact Shuichi was using his brother's identity to hide out. And more than likely, Shuichi would confide at least a LITTLE in Okiya about what he'd learned about Conan - plus Okiya himself is probably as smart as a whip just like all the other siblings, and didn't have a hard time figuring it out. Or, hell, maybe Okiya figured out Conan's identity, and didn't tell Shuichi, or maybe even vice-versa. Or maybe both know and aren't telling each other. Though, if you trust your sibling enough to use his identity and have him help you hide from an evil organization, you PROBABLY trust him enough to share wild theories like "That little kid is Kudou Shinichi."

 

Also, just because Sera seemed to give up on pursuing Okiya right away, that doesn't necessarily mean it WASN'T her middle brother. In fact, if he IS her middle brother, it kind of explains why she seems to suddenly OUT OF THE BLUE start talking about him and calling him on a regular basis - because, after she spotted him the first time, she pursued him and got into contact with him ("off-screen" so-to-speak) and started being family with him again, maybe because they'd been separated for a long time - maybe she wasn't even sure it was him at first, either, and went about it a long way to prove it to herself first. And maybe they just made it seem like nothing to screw with Conan - Sera was kind of suspicious with him in the beginning, after all.

 

Though this requires us to bring in the mystery "girl" and her relationship to the whole situation. If Okiya IS the second brother, then obviously the 'girl' can't be, again reviving the mother theory. You know, if we assume it was APTX4869, maybe when it shrinks you, it shrinks you relative to your age, not ALWAYS to 'an elementary schooler' so if the mother was say... I don't know, a wide estimate, 40-ish, and was shrunk by the apotoxin, maybe she'd TURN INTO a middle schooler instead of the 17/18-year-olds Shinichi and Shiho turning into elementary schoolers. Though considering the fact that Vermouth has somehow kept her youth, you'd have to be crazy not to also consider that it's POSSIBLE she was involved with the other substance, and is either able to age once given it, or only went down to a middle schooler age - we also aren't entirely certain that APTX4869 still allows you to age or not. It's been IMPLIED in an OVA, but that's not exactly Canon, is it?

 

Also, as a note, there HAVE BEEN inconsistencies here or there in Conan. Granted. They are SO VERY RARE and Gosho TENDS to be SO GOOD at keeping everything consistant, but consider the very vague possibility for a moment that Gosho and the team forgot or put out Haibara/Gin's claim that Shinichi was the 'first test'? Or maybe they've just found some way to circumvent it? If that's the case, APTX4869 could have been used earlier - possibly even on the shrunken girl, who has been aging as a child since before Shinichi was turned Conan?

[ThatLee4 10]

I think Okiay is both Shu in disguise and himself. My only question is, is that considering when Sera and Okiay met. If it was the real Okiay. Why did they both not say anything? Not even Hi. They both know something weird is up. In relation to knowing Conan too?

I think the little sister is the mum. And has either taken an earlier verson of the drug with different effects. Or they did turn into a 7 year old but had been that way so long they grew up a bit?.

Vermont seems to hate that she does not age or whatever. Do you think that when Ran saved her, she was happy because she would not haf died or got hurt? Hence exposing her?

[MelonyMutou 0]

  On 12/20/2013 at 12:10 AM, ThatLee4 said:

I think Okiay is both Shu in disguise and himself. My only question is, is that considering when Sera and Okiay met. If it was the real Okiay. Why did they both not say anything? Not even Hi. They both know something weird is up. In relation to knowing Conan too?

I think the little sister is the mum. And has either taken an earlier verson of the drug with different effects. Or they did turn into a 7 year old but had been that way so long they grew up a bit?.

Vermont seems to hate that she does not age or whatever. Do you think that when Ran saved her, she was happy because she would not haf died or got hurt? Hence exposing her?

 

My friend and I just discussed that - if Okiya is the brother and Sera and him know each other, when they DID first run into each other, Sera was still feeling kind of iffy about Conan, wasn't she? Maybe, if SHE knew he was Shinichi at the time, she didn't want him to know that Okiya was her brother? So she played it off? Or maybe she actually DIDN'T RECOGNIZE HIM HERSELF, because with those glasses, they hide the Sera/Akai eyes, you know? Maybe regular Okiya DOESN'T normally wear glasses and it threw her off? Seemed to work dang well for Conan xD;

 

Well, if the mother was like 30-40ish, then maybe when a 30-40-year-old is shrunk by APTX 4869, they shrink less than someone who is 17-18? We've only ever seen Shinichi and Shiho been shrunk - Shinichi is 17, and Shiho is 18 - so who's to say 30-40-year-olds wouldn't shrink to the size of a teen-ish-age?

Also, it has not yet been established that people age again after being shrunk, for the record. It was IMPLIED in an OVA, where Shinichi dreamt he grew up as Conan, but 1. That was a dream, and 2. OVAs are not Canon, technically speaking.

 

I don't think Vermouth is literally IMMORTAL, but I do believe she greatly appreciates Ran for saving her life. There's likely deeper meaning behind this, like you said, but more than likely it could be something as simple as her not wanting her fingerprints getting into the American Government system - because supposedly they'd match a like 20-year-old murder case - where a certain FBI member, Jodie's father was murdered. If this was fully revealed to the actual US government, then the Organization's methods could be revealed in some way, I'd imagine. But I think that whole idea is still up for debate anyway.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

  On 12/20/2013 at 12:42 AM, MelonyMutou said:

My friend and I just discussed that - if Okiya is the brother and Sera and him know each other, when they DID first run into each other, Sera was still feeling kind of iffy about Conan, wasn't she? Maybe, if SHE knew he was Shinichi at the time, she didn't want him to know that Okiya was her brother? So she played it off? Or maybe she actually DIDN'T RECOGNIZE HIM HERSELF, because with those glasses, they hide the Sera/Akai eyes, you know? Maybe regular Okiya DOESN'T normally wear glasses and it threw her off? Seemed to work dang well for Conan xD;

The way the evidence is right now it appears Masumi knew Conan was Shinichi from the time she met him on the bus and at the hotel.

[MelonyMutou 0]

  On 12/20/2013 at 5:09 AM, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

The way the evidence is right now it appears Masumi knew Conan was Shinichi from the time she met him on the bus and at the hotel.

 

When I said 'she was still iffy about Conan, right?' I meant not necessarily that she was iffy about his identity, but that she was iffy about trusting him in general. Sorry, I should have been more clear about that.

 

 

  On 12/19/2013 at 10:33 PM, MelonyMutou said:

We're all virtually positive Okiya is Shuichi, but stop for a second and consider, what if he IS the second brother, and he's simply helping Shuichi hide out? Shuichi is dressing up as his brother and, MOST OF THE TIME WE'VE SEEN HIM, it's Shuichi, but there was ONE scene (and it's debatable whether it was actually him - what if it was Yuukikou? She's superb at disguise, so maybe she HELPED Shuichi disguise himself better, or maybe she was able to disguise herself better) where Okiya SHOWS his neck and part of his upper chest while brusing his teeth. This scene came almost JUST AFTER I believe the girls had been gossiping about the fact he always keeps his neck hidden - almost like it was on purpose on either Gosho's part or on Okiya's part, Gosho trying to screw with us and say "nope that theory's incorrect" OR on Okiya's part, him specifically doing much more to his disguise himself because he somehow caught wind that people were getting suspicious that he was keeping his neck/throat area hidden. Again, it's possible this was just better disguising - it IS possible to disguise oneself that far, it's just FAR more time-consuming, hence the reason NORMALLY he'd just go with the mask when NOT trying to convince people of something - OR maybe it was the REAL Okiya that time.

 

After some more exploration on my part on this theory, I've come to a conclusion (thanks to some others in another forum, haha) that it IS actually possible that in that scene, the only reason Okiya didn't talk was possibly simply because he didn't have his voice-changing device/speaker on him (his turtle necks/scarves).

 

It took some transformations on my understanding of the Shuichis Fake Death situation to help me come to this conclusion. If Conan was involved from the very beginning in the fake death, then it stands to reason that, while Shuichi went underground, Conan sent him to his mother to have her cook up a disguise for him. If something like this is the case (not yet canon-confirmed, but incredibly likely, really), then it stands to reason that in cooking up Shuichi's disguise as Okiya, Yuukikou used Hakase's technology to help Shuichi change is voice -- hence the scarves and turtlenecks.

Thing is, I had just kind of assumed the possibility that Shuichi could just be altering his voice on his own. It IS possible, to be fair. But it's also possible, that if Yuukikou devised Shuichi's Okiya disguise, that she helped him disguise his voice, too.

(Another thing that I feel kind of backs up this whole Yuukikou-helping-Shuichi-theory is that Conan could have told Shuichi, 'Have my mother help you, and someday run into me 'randomly' and when you do, quote something specific from Sherlock Holmes, or just talk about Sherlock Holmes in general, and I'll know it's you.' - one of the first things Okiya and Conan talked about was Holmes. Actually I think it WAS the first thing. I need to go back and check that.)

 

If all of this is the case, and Okiya's scarves/turtlenecks are being used to disguise a voicechanger, then it's possible the only use the bathroom scene served was to show us that he couldn't speak without it, because it altered his voice.

 

HOWEVER. There IS still the possibility Okiya is two different people - a REAL Okiya Subaru, and Shuichi disguised AS Okiya Subaru. Whether they're brothers or not, I might add.

 

THIS theory is supported by the fact that Okiya has apparently been seen changing his handedness from time to time. I can't imagine Shuichi being stupid enough to forget and use the wrong hand. He's not that kind of guy. Though, you know, I'd HOPE that if Okiya WERE a real person, he'd be smart enough to use the correct handedness along with Shuichi whenever the swap places. That inconsistency kind of concerns me, but maybe Gosho didn't have it that way because he wanted us to be clued in, I don't know. Also, Shuichi could simply be ambidextrous, in which case it doesn't matter much, but it was basically established that, at the VERY least, his MAIN hand is his left, whether he can actually USE his right or not. And if THIS is the case, then maybe Gosho is just trying to screw with us, making Shuichi use different hands on and off to make us THINK he might be two different people. I could see Gosho doing that. Absolutely.

 

Then there's also that, if Okiya is a real person and Shuichi is disguising as him, Yuukikou STILL could have helped with the disguising. And if she DID help with the disguising, maybe they've pulled a trick like the Halloween Ship case where Heiji was disguised as Shinichi and his tie was a SPEAKER which Conan used his mask and voice-changer to speak as Shinichi through. They could be using the same method, the scarves and turtlenecks disguising a SPEAKER rather than a voice-changer, and the real Okiya Subaru is speaking while the disguised Shuichi-as-Okiya moves his mouth. This SEEMS unnecessary, over-complicated, and even kind of dangerous, because if Shuichi suddenly loses connection with the real Okiya somehow, he'd be in trouble.

And, hell, if Yuukikou DID help them, WHY even use a speaker? Why not just go ahead and use the voice-changer? Surely Yuukikou could get Hakase to make her one, or would be able to snag one or something to that tune.

 

But it could ALSO be that the scarves and turtlenecks ARE still hiding voice-changers, and, hell, Okiya STILL switches with Shuichi occasionally. Shuichi wears the scarves/turtlenecks to disguise a voice-changer, but when it's the real Okiya, he wears scarves/turtlenecks just to keep up appearances.

 

Though I have to admit, if the Okiya in the bathroom WAS the real Okiya, why NOT talk, if Shuichi uses the scarves and turtlenecks to hide a voice changer/speaker, and the real okiya has his own voice? It would have to mean the Okiya in the bathroom was almost most definitely Shuichi, whether a real Okiya exists or not. Or maybe Gosho just made him not talk to screw with us. He DID have a toothbrush in his mouth. Though really, has Gosho ever put something like that in if it wasn't relevent? I don't think I've seen such a case yet...

 

 

And, last but not least, to be fair (though incredibly unlikely) MAYBE Gosho's heavy implications that Okiya IS Shuichi are all complete smoke and mirrors. Maybe he's doing it on purpose JUST SO WE DO ACTUALLY THINK Okiya IS Shuichi. I mean, in the Halloween Party case, there wasn't much hint that 'Haibara' was actually Conan, but that's what it came out to, right? I mean, really, who are we to say Gosho isn't actually just yanking on our chains this whole time? I certainly wouldn't put it past him. And I could definitely see him pulling something of the sort, giving us all these clues to try and convince us when it's actually NOT the truth. That's the best kind of turnabout, isn't it? Something you're TOTALLY convinced in being proved untrue in the end? That would be pretty badass if it happened, actually xD. I'm not saying Akai Shuichi is dead, but simply that there IS a possibility (though I DO agree it's unlikely) that Okiya ISN'T who we've been led to believe he is. You have to admit that would be amazing if Gosho swung that one around on us though, huh?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

  On 12/21/2013 at 1:08 AM, MelonyMutou said:

And, last but not least, to be fair (though incredibly unlikely) MAYBE Gosho's heavy implications that Okiya IS Shuichi are all complete smoke and mirrors. Maybe he's doing it on purpose JUST SO WE DO ACTUALLY THINK Okiya IS Shuichi. I mean, in the Halloween Party case, there wasn't much hint that 'Haibara' was actually Conan, but that's what it came out to, right? I mean, really, who are we to say Gosho isn't actually just yanking on our chains this whole time? I certainly wouldn't put it past him. And I could definitely see him pulling something of the sort, giving us all these clues to try and convince us when it's actually NOT the truth. That's the best kind of turnabout, isn't it? Something you're TOTALLY convinced in being proved untrue in the end? That would be pretty badass if it happened, actually xD. I'm not saying Akai Shuichi is dead, but simply that there IS a possibility (though I DO agree it's unlikely) that Okiya ISN'T who we've been led to believe he is. You have to admit that would be amazing if Gosho swung that one around on us though, huh?

Gosho not the chain yanker type, he plays by the mystery golden rulesbook. The clues that Ai was Conan in disguise were:

• Bold behavior compared to how Ai was before, e.g. suddenly trying to go with Araide to the hospital, and then trusting and going with Jodie instead once she suddenly appeared instead of Araide.
• There was also a difference between Haibara in the two scenes in chap 430 (and 431). The one in the basement had a headband, no face mask (we have seen the voicechanger face mask before), and indoor shoes. The one above had different clothes, no headband, a facemask, and *sneakers*.
• Yukiko is present, which means disguises are in play.
• Conan is nowhere to be seen. Where is he?
• The earbud in "Haibara's" ear seen best in 431 pg 9 means there is a plan afoot, and it can be deduced it is connected to "Shinichi" by the sound and other interactions. Conan would never agree to a plan where he splits up with Haibara and leaves her alone when Vermouth knows about them, especially since the invitation to the boat looks like a distraction to separate them. Once that scenario is ruled out, it is not too much of a stretch from here to guess Conan might be Ai, and someone else is Shinichi. Hattori already was Shinichi once and Conan would be willing to let him on a Black Org plan.

There was only point where Okiya consistently "changed handedness" was when he was in front of Masumi in the Yuusaku's cold case. It might have been to mislead Masumi who might have found him unsettlingly familiar.

[ALAKTORN 170]

I was reading back in the interviews topic, and found this:

“6. Apart from Conan and Haibara, are there any others who took the poison and ended up shrinking?

A: Who knows...maybe another one will turn up some time... (laughter)”

I guess we know what that was about, now.

[detectiveRJB 15]

Sera mother!I believe she husband was FBI or CIA!

[96082 39]

Hi, I was reading theories and stuff around the net and saw that, apparently when Sera was talking about her mother's bust size, she used past tense (It's mentioned on several posts, including here, here, and here.) This seems like a point of interest, but I do not have the raw to confirm it myself. If anyone has access to the raw to the scenes where Sera mentions about her mother's chest, please do share!

[ALAKTORN 170]

What’s the chapter in question where she says that? I’ve only checked the first link and it gives 4 points of why she could be the mother, I’ll sum them up:

1. Same eyes, same family. We know the middle brother looks like the father. This means that Sera and Akai look like the mother. That girl with the same eyes as Sera is the mother.

I think this is interesting because Chekhov has theorized previously that the Japanese might not consider the same things as we do as being similar between siblings, but this proves that they also think the eyes are an important point, the post doesn’t even mention the hair.

2. Sera said in past tense that her mother had a big bust. This means that she doesn’t anymore = because she became a child.

Interesting new point I’ve never seen brought up in the English community before.

3. Sera seems to know that Conan is Shin’ichi. With a sibling in the same situation, it’s not strange to think she would figure it out.

This point is a little pointless and doesn’t even reinforce that she’s the mother rather than the brother.

4. That a middle schooler spoke to a high schooler in imperative form means that there is a possibility she’s actually older than her. But since Sera speaks to her in a casual manner, they’re probably in a close relationship?

Again doesn’t really reinforce the mother point over the brother point.

[96082 39]

Vol.73, Chapter 771

Vol.74, Chapter 778

 

Not sure if there are any more, but these are the two scenes I think of immediately.

 

(After some more research, it's likely the original phrase is "ママも痩せてたけどわりと胸はあったから" in 778. "Mama was also thin, but she had relatively [big] chest."

 

I got this quote from two separate Yahoo questions. It is likely the posters quoted directly out of the manga, thereby confirming the use of past tense. Source here and here.)

 

Anyways, most of the points from those articles are already considered in Chekhov's theories (his first post in this thread,) and if not, they are too wishy-washy to be worth your time and you're better off reading Chekhov's posts. I only posted those links as a sort of pseudo-confirmation for the usage of past tense, before I get proper confirmation from someone who has access to the raws.

 

 

 

With all that's said, I find it very strange Sera would be using past tense here. (For those not as familiar in Japanese, the phrase here sounds as strange as it is in English.) The only times I think of using past tense in this situation is either when her mother is dead, or she's grown fat, and/or she's lost her "relatively" big breasts.

[kyriesaur 3]

  On 11/22/2013 at 7:17 AM, j.v233 said:

Maybe that girl is also shrunk by the drug. She seems like a smart and intelligent girl:-? Kids at her age are usually not as sharp as her

uhm. hi can i ask? On what epsd. is this article about?

[Nara-chan 38]

^Obviously, you don't read the manga. Am I right?

This topic is about the "mysterious girl" Sera showed Conan on her phone. It is assumed that that "girl" is  relative of Masumi's

[kudo1312akai 0]

As mentioned above , the mysterious girl might not be sera's older brother coz if it is true then there would be no point in disguising as a female  as no one knows his identity before he shrunk.. Its also unlikely that his younger version's face is known to someone..And  if he really is her shrunken brother then she would definitely figure out who conan is. Right now she is just unsure...Thanks for bringing up this topic... kudos.

[75aichan 49]

hmm I still think it's the brother...as chekhov said maybe he looked like a girl the same way Sera looks like a boy...Conan already made that mistake with Sera so it could be the same with the mystery child.

Also the child have detective skills it seems,so it firts more with the brother description.

But I agree the mother is a possible solution^^

[kudo1312akai 0]

  On 5/19/2014 at 9:31 AM, 75aichan said:

hmm I still think it's the brother...as chekhov said maybe he looked like a girl the same way Sera looks like a boy...Conan already made that mistake with Sera so it could be the same with the mystery child.

Also the child have detective skills it seems,so it firts more with the brother description.

But I agree the mother is a possible solution^^

 What convinced me that the girl is not Sera's older brother in disguise is the way in which Sera teases her asking whether (she) had taken a liking for Conan..... And why doesnt the mystery girl say" little brother outside the domain" instead of little sister..... No one knows that person .SO what's the point???

[75aichan 49]

assuming the mystery child is the brother,he may want to hide his identity to Conan,and the fact that he's indeed a victim of APTX.

if he would have  say "brother outside the domain",maybe Conan would make the link with the second brother.The child seems to be vey careful,and doesn't trust Conan yet so of course he could lie,in order to take less risks.

also the child seems to have health problems ,that could fit with masumi description(Akai is the strong one,and the middle brother is the smart one)

[kudo1312akai 0]

maybe but if it is really the shrunken brother wouldn't sera figure out conan right away??/

[A L 217]

Her identity constantly bugs me, though I hope it's another APTX victim xD

[MelloLily 5]

Considering the options, well, I don't think it could be Shuichi Akai because:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Shuichi Akai is disguised as Subaru Okiya

 

Even though this character says that it is a girl, I think that is a lie to throw off Conan, and in actuality is a boy.  The middle child to be precise.  And he knows about Conan due to Shuichi's information.  And since Shuichi is disguising as Subaru, I think Subaru is the middle child and Shuichi is using that as a disguise since he knows his brother is a child at the moment.  Perfect cover up for the both of them.  Shuichi is considered dead as he disguises as his younger brother who shrunk due to the drug.

 

Why is the middle sibling a child?  Because he got caught from the Black Organization and was fed the same well known APTX.  But the middle child was not an agent in the organization and was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time or targeted for being Shuichi's brother.

 

Edit: Not to mention that Shuichi as Subaru is the same age that the middle child would be (going off the fact that it shows Subaru to be 27, which the middle child's friends in the red women murderer is around the same age of 28-29).  Plus, the middle child is said to be highly intelligent, and Shuichi as Subaru is an engineering graduate student, which would fit the puzzle loving smarts of the middle child.

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

most likely mom

[Blogabee 0]

I mostly think the unknown child is Masumi Sera's mother who is also just like conan and haibara a victim of the drug; apotoxin 4869. She also seemed quiet sharp-witted and seems to also act more discipline towards Sera judging by the way of her speech and attitude(a little similar to Haibara) which could only reckon more she is of an older age and the mother of Sera and akai etc.