Mary Discussion Thread

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

The other possibility that comes to mind is she was involved in the "accident" the Miyanos knew were coming that vanished the both of them. Let's say Elena and Mary were involved with MI6 as many have speculated. Elena and Atsushi were ready to flounce from the Organization because they had a second kid, a breakthrough on their drug, and wanted a more colorful wardrobe. MI6 prepared a fake accident that accidentally became a real accident and Silver Bullet accidentally sprayed everywhere accidentally. Mary Sue got caught up in it and was cursed to retake sixth grade, permanently.

 

Problem is, there, that the accident was right after Shiho was born—18 years ago. Masumi was born 16-17 years ago. Unless the Silver Bullet had a delayed reaction (which could be possible), there's no way Masumi could've been conceived, let alone born.

 

Ran commented about remembering the unknown child from long ago around the time she met Sera. That would about 10-12 years in the past, a lower bound for HMS Queen Mary's age jettison. "That girl too, I feel like I previously [met]" (ref 905pg16) The problem is that you can validly argue Ran is conflating Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary with memories of Masumi since they look alike.

 

I suppose with Ran's memory, you could argue she's conflating things, but MG has different skin color, hair color, voice, perhaps even age. Ran can remember a younger Masumi's voice and part of what she was wearing and looked like—it's not like she's conflated anything in her other flashbacks, even when she was a four-year-old. MG's age issues probably make it harder for her to remember her, if she was there—only the flashback can answer the question of how old was MG when Shinichi and Ran met Masumi. Once this becomes clear, so will the notion of when the de-aging happened.

 

7 Mary jokes—not bad. 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Problem is, there, that the accident was right after Shiho was born—18 years ago. Masumi was born 16-17 years ago. Unless the Silver Bullet had a delayed reaction (which could be possible), there's no way Masumi could've been conceived, let alone born.

 

I lean towards a more recent drug point, something that happened well after Elena and Atsushi's accident. (Mary might have been involved in that but not shrunken at the time) There is no compelling reason not to think that Mary was drugged after Conan was chronologically. Mary is still acting like there is a clear and present danger that requires staying out of sight and shuffling hotels constantly. All that movement gets old fast and would almost certainly have a detriment on Masumi's schooling.

 

Ran is always right as far as her instincts about people. She recognizes people who have changed appearance, like Okiya. Ran has probably unconciously connected the adult woman from her memories with the middle-schooler she sees in front of her.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I lean towards a more recent drug point, something that happened well after Elena and Atsushi's accident. (Mary might have been involved in that but not shrunken at the time) There is no compelling reason not to think that Mary was drugged after Conan was chronologically. Mary is still acting like there is a clear and present danger that requires staying out of sight and shuffling hotels constantly. All that movement gets old fast and would almost certainly have a detriment on Masumi's schooling.

 

Ran is always right as far as her instincts about people. She recognizes people who have changed appearance, like Okiya. Ran has probably unconciously connected the adult woman from her memories with the middle-schooler she sees in front of her.

 

Yeah, I agree on both points. Masumi's reason for coming to Japan is likely what happened to MG.

 

Do you think MG was always with Masumi, or only started living with her at some point after Mystery Train (Files 818–824)? I think there was more to Masumi taking a picture of Shinichi/Conan in File 856 than was apparent, at the time—could MG have shown up just before that?

[EthanHunter 7]

Yeah, I agree on both points. Masumi's reason for coming to Japan is likely what happened to MG.

 

Do you think MG was always with Masumi, or only started living with her at some point after Mystery Train (Files 818–824)? I think there was more to Masumi taking a picture of Shinichi/Conan in File 856 than was apparent, at the time—could MG have shown up just before that?

I believe MG was shrunk while living with Sera in the US, not too long ago. It wasn't right before the red woman case because of 3 things:

1) I believe the reason Sera came to Japan was because MG shrunk, and had probably already shrunk before coming to Japan.

2) If they(especially MG) are still hesitating to discuss things with Conan(even Sera ignores Conan when asked about MG, probably because MG said so), Sera wouldn't have discussed it right after MG shrunk.

3) I also believe she must have had shrunk before Sera net Conan, otherwise she would have been surprised at Shinichi having shrunk.

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

I believe MG was shrunk while living with Sera in the US, not too long ago. It wasn't right before the red woman case because of 3 things:

1) I believe the reason Sera came to Japan was because MG shrunk, and had probably already shrunk before coming to Japan.

2) If they(especially MG) are still hesitating to discuss things with Conan(even Sera ignores Conan when asked about MG, probably because MG said so), Sera wouldn't have discussed it right after MG shrunk.

3) I also believe she must have had shrunk before Sera net Conan, otherwise she would have been surprised at Shinichi having shrunk.

Yes i agree, especially about the the third point, for some reason, both Akai and Sera don't seem to be surprised that Conan is Shinichi and that Haibara is Shiho, and if you want to go even further, if Shuukichi knew that Conan was Shinichi then he also wasn't surprised at that, but for now at least it seems only Masumi knows about the mother's condition.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

If Shuukichi knew that Conan was Shinichi then he also wasn't surprised at that, but for now at least it seems only Masumi knows about the mother's condition.

 

But who's to say MG wasn't with Shukichi before File 856? You'd think, if she'd been with Masumi the whole time, she would've found out about Shinichi/Conan earlier and, thus, wanted to meet him, earlier. This could also explain why he wouldn't be surprised that Shinichi had de-aged.

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

But who's to say MG wasn't with Shukichi before File 856? You'd think, if she'd been with Masumi the whole time, she would've found out about Shinichi/Conan earlier and, thus, wanted to meet him, earlier. This could also explain why he wouldn't be surprised that Shinichi had de-aged.

I agree, i'm saying that for now the only one confirmed to know about her condition is Masumi.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I agree, i'm saying that for now the only one confirmed to know about her condition is Masumi.

 

Yes, that's certainly true. 

 

Did you read the raw of File 930? Did you see that bottom of the last page, where it says when DC will continue (Continued next week in SS #40, for example), looks different than usual?

[EthanHunter 7]

I am pretty sure this is in some way going to lead us to Elena. 

Can't think of any other reason why Gosho spent so much time on the Akai family. Well, Shuukichi himself was very popular and Gosho decided to make up Sera. I read somewhere Sera was not a part of Gosho's original plans. 

I think(and wish) the series will go on for a few more years.

Hopefully the RUM/Akai family arc should give us a lot of information, even about Haibara's parents, their death, and silver bullet.

BTW, I also think next year we might have another FBI vs Bourbon case, and the mystery about Scotch will be revealed. That's because we got the scarlet arc right after Movie 18, so if Movie 20 is not a total troll(hopefully not, 20th anniversary after all), then we should have quite a bit of plot coming by next year

 

 

 

Did you read the raw of File 930? Did you see that bottom of the last page, where it says when DC will continue (Continued next week in SS #40, for example), looks different than usual?

Didn't notice it

Guess a change in style maybe. We see that often in the anime anyway

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I read somewhere Sera was not a part of Gosho's original plans. 

 

Indeed. She was added because there was a female detective in the Detective Koshien Case (Files 562–566) who proved to be quiet popular, and Gosho's editors eventually had him put in a female detective, because of that character's popularity.

 

I think(and wish) the series will go on for a few more years.

 

That's guaranteed. 2020 is probably the earliest possible end year for Detective Conan, in terms of the manga.

 

BTW, I also think next year we might have another FBI vs Bourbon case, and the mystery about Scotch will be revealed. That's because we got the scarlet arc right after Movie 18, so if Movie 20 is not a total troll(hopefully not, 20th anniversary after all), then we should have quite a bit of plot coming by next year

 

Hopefully, FBI and BO, featuring all the BO members, and, yes—the mystery behind Scotch needs to be revealed. Perhaps through a flashback case?

 

By troll, you mean like Movie 13? Fact is, Movie 18 is the only DC movie that spoiled the manga plot—no prior movie did that. It may be the 20th anniversary next year, but movies are always non-canon. Dimensional Sniper was a special case brought about by the fact that it came out just after the release of File 894, the start of Scarlet Showdown. Hopefully, we'll see something along the lines of Movie 5, but on a much bigger scale—Gosho said it'll involve Shuichi Vs Rei, and Gin will be making an appearance, so I'm certainly stoked.

 

Did you read the raw of File 930? Did you see that bottom of the last page, where it says when DC will continue (Continued next week in SS #40, for example), looks different than usual?

Didn't notice it

Guess a change in style maybe. We see that often in the anime anyway

 

It's confirmed—no break next week! 

[Guest]

 

Did you read the raw of File 930? Did you see that bottom of the last page, where it says when DC will continue (Continued next week in SS #40, for example), looks different than usual?

 

Thats not the Raw that you read. what you read was the chinese fan translation

they changed the text in the box. 

 

EDIT : 

....and here is the Raw. (9/2/15)

 

[EthanHunter 7]

By the way just remembered something obvious, if MG did take APTX 4869 it obviously had been taken after Shinichi, so less than one year ago in DC time.

 

Another thing, when I first saw MG it seemed she resembled Haibara a lot, more than even she resembled Sera. At that time I didn't know about this Elena theory so I thought it was just a coincidence, but thinking now, it might really be why MG resembles Ai.

 

 

Indeed. She was added because there was a female detective in the Detective Koshien Case (Files 562–566) who proved to be quiet popular, and Gosho's editors eventually had him put in a female detective, because of that character's popularity.

 

Wow interesting. I thought it was taken from a different anime. If I remember correctly, you mean the Heiji episode right? I remember that female detective, but it was just one case, must have been really popular to be behind Sera, yet Sera literally in no way (except similar deduction abilities) is similar to her, they are very very different. I too liked that character and thought it was a pity that she turned out to be the murderer.

 

That's guaranteed. 2020 is probably the earliest possible end year for Detective Conan, in terms of the manga.

 

If ti does continue till 2020, do you think we will see Kaito vs Lupin III?

 

 

By troll, you mean like Movie 13? Fact is, Movie 18 is the only DC movie that spoiled the manga plot—no prior movie did that. It may be the 20th anniversary next year, but movies are always non-canon. Dimensional Sniper was a special case brought about by the fact that it came out just after the release of File 894, the start of Scarlet Showdown. Hopefully, we'll see something along the lines of Movie 5, but on a much bigger scale—Gosho said it'll involve Shuichi Vs Rei, and Gin will be making an appearance, so I'm certainly stoked.

Yeah, I think I can call movie 13 a troll. Movie 5 didn't do much but even though minor, it kind of confirmed that Sherry is not secretly trying to harm Conan.

Another reason I believe it would be unfair to have another troll BO movie is because this one has two very important characters, Akai and Rei, and if we do see them clash it is unlikely that it would affect the plot in no way, however if it indeed doesn't affect the plot, then it must be a total troll, like they don't even meet or something lol. 

Gin's "Bourbon, Kir, masaka" was quite obviously nothing important, but I think the movie won't be too interesting without any plot development, though I might be totally wrong because I don't think movie 13 was bad either.

Plot or not, the minimum I would hope is that the movie kinda touches on the Akai vs Rei clash and we get  a full case in manga around the time the movie releases about them. Also as I said, this is the 20th anniversary so I am expecting it to be above average, and since it will have to succeed to movie 18, Lupin, and then movie 19, all three of which kept setting highest gross records one after another, it better be something that all DC fans will enjoy

[Serinox 127]

By the way just remembered something obvious, if MG did take APTX 4869 it obviously had been taken after Shinichi, so less than one year ago in DC time.

Haibara says in her introduction case, that APTX 4869 always reverts the body back to the status of 6-7 year old, which explains why Haibara is currently the same age as Conan, despite the fact that Shiho is circa two years older than Shinichi. Conan estimates the MG to be around middle school age (12-15), so she must've taken it atleast ~5 years ago. Since that is pretty much impossible considering what Gin says about the drug, it was probably not APTX 4869 that shrunk the MG (if she is a shrunken person at all). Maybe some sort of prototype or a product of a project preceeding APTX 4869?

[Guest]

Haibara says in her introduction case, that APTX 4869 always reverts the body back to the status of 6-7 year old, 

 

Nowhere In the manga does she ever give an age range

 

"That Drug is a kind of mysterious poison that is supposed to terminate cell's life immediately, thus being able to kill with no trace. But for some reasons, instead of kill you, it made your cells, aside from your nervous system cells, shrank back to their children age" (Please excuse the poor grammar, This quote is exactly how it appears in the fan translation of Ch178, Haibara's intro case) 

 

“[shrinking] is an unexpected side effect. The nervous system is unaffected, but everything else—bones, muscle tissue, internal organs, hair – reverts to a childlike state” (VIZ english version of the same quote)(Copy pasted from that Haibara thread I did at DCTP a while back because I dont have the VIZ on me)

[Serinox 127]

Nowhere In the manga does she ever give an age range

 

"That Drug is a kind of mysterious poison that is supposed to terminate cell's life immediately, thus being able to kill with no trace. But for some reasons, instead of kill you, it made your cells, aside from your nervous system cells, shrank back to their children age" (Please excuse the poor grammar, This quote is exactly how it appears in the fan translation of Ch178, Haibara's intro case) 

 

“[shrinking] is an unexpected side effect. The nervous system is unaffected, but everything else—bones, muscle tissue, internal organs, hair – reverts to a childlike state” (VIZ english version of the same quote)(Copy pasted from that Haibara thread I did at DCTP a while back because I dont have the VIZ on me)

When that subject came up in the DCTP chatbox, Fuji said that in the Japanese version, the word Haibara uses, which is translated here as "childlike" or "children age", is a Japanese term that refers only to children up to an age of 6-7, and that even the range of 7 to 10 (which is used on the DCW Wiki page for APTX) is wrong and not included in the word Haibara uses in the Japanese version. I don't speak Japanese though, so I just took her word for it.

[Startold 3]

I read somewhere Sera was not a part of Gosho's original plans.

 

Nearly nothing after the first ten chapters is part of Gosho's original plan. Everything else was either thought by Gosho who then talked about it to his editors (the main plot of the Haibara Arc, which Gosho had prepared beforehand in case the manga got successful-- which it did), or was asked by the editors (creating Kazuha and establishing her as Heiji's love interest, creating a cool female high-school detective who could be popular). 

[Guest]

When that subject came up in the DCTP chatbox, Fuji said that in the Japanese version, the word Haibara uses, which is translated here as "childlike" or "children age", is a Japanese term that refers only to children up to an age of 6-7, and that even the range of 7 to 10 (which is used on the DCW Wiki page for APTX) is wrong and not included in the word Haibara uses in the Japanese version. I don't speak Japanese though, so I just took her word for it.

 

The word is (Youjiki) ようじき and the internet gives its definition as "infancy, childhood, adolescence" 

 

what you are saying now, "term that refers to children up to an age of 6-7" is very different that what you said before "" that APTX 4869 always reverts the body back to the status of 6-7 year old"". 

 

​Not only that but what Haibara is saying in the sentence is that they (although she is specifically talking about Conan) reverted back to that age range. Not that this age range is always the case.

 

She, as a scientist, could not claim at the time that the age range for the shrinkange would always be in that range. The percentage of deaths was a lot higher compared to shrinkage, and also Shiho and Shinichi were approximately the same age range (2 years apart) at the time of ingestion. Even with the case of the mice as a comparrison, there is literally no way that she could make an "always" judgement call. 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

We know so little about APTX—who knows the range of effects it can bring about, in terms of de-aging, and how relative it can be, with each person... and who knows if MG even ingested it? Maybe it's Silver Bullet? We still need more info—we need a meeting between Shinichi/Conan and MG.

[EthanHunter 7]

IMO, even if she DID say it is 6-7 years old, she might be wrong. As she said there was only ONE mouse that had de-aged, and no human up until Shinichi, the second probably being herself.

If I remember correctly, she is 18 and Shinichi is 17, if we say there is a certain ratio the age is decreased by, for eg. 17 becomes 6, then in that ration 18 would become 6*18/17, which is about 6 years and 4 months, therefore we cannot guarantee that Haibara and Conan are the same age even after shrinking, Haibara might still be older by the same ratio. In that case MG's age should be around 45 max, but if we say she is about 50 that might make some sense.

In other words, she probably did shrink after Conan and Haibara. The only reason I am skeptical about it being silver bullet, is because I personally believe silver bullet to be something that stops aging, or slows it down drastically, which can explain why Vermouth "never ages", and I don't believe silver bullet to be a carbon copy of 4869 that just shrinks people.

 

Still, if the ratio theory I said is true, then MG should ideally be about 35-36 because MG looks more like a 12 y.o. than a 15 y.o. in DC. However that wouldn't make sense because Akai is 29 or so.

 

 

we need a meeting between Shinichi/Conan and MG.

 

I don't understand why Sera suddenly started to avoid the topic. She seemed to be very interested in introducing MG to Conan in the pool case, now she is completely avoiding the topic.

[Guest]

(info from wiki)

In the manga, V1 Conan almost tells Ran that he is 16, but corrects himself to say 6. In V15 a reporter says that Shinichi is 16. 

In the anime, the ages are often given as 17 and 7, (even before movie 1, so there is no reason for the change)

 

One of the biggest problems that I have with the whole age number thing is that "age" counts revolutions around the sun 

and not a description of how much they regressed. Technically you could describe Conan's age to be not even a year old

since the series has not even past a 1 year mark, OR you could alternatively describe Conan's age to be 16, since that

is how old Shinichi almost says that he is. The age 6 thing was a number that he came up with on the spot when being 

confronted by Ran, based on his current height. 

[Heliotropic 139]

I don't understand why Sera suddenly started to avoid the topic. She seemed to be very interested in introducing MG to Conan in the pool case, now she is completely avoiding the topic.

Is she completely avoiding it though? It's clear she doesn't want Ran or Sonoko to know of the situation, since Conan was supposed to come alone in the Pool Case. In File 928 when Conan suggests whether or not she is bringing the food back to someone hidden in her hotel room, Sera responds with that it's for her boyfriend, jokingly of course. Ran and Sonoko were right next to her at the time, so I think that's worth mentioning.

 

I mean Sera's never really been a "direct" person, but I don't think she's really avoiding the topic here without any reason. It'd be nice if we could get it over with though 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Technically you could describe Conan's age to be not even a year old

since the series has not even past a 1 year mark 

 

As Conan, Shinichi looks more like his six/seven-year-old self than like his four-year-old self—that's why I think that's his age. We haven't seen his 8-12 year old self, though, so...

 

But he can't be a one-year-old... unless you're going by Gosho's ridiculous portrayals of Shinichi's/Conan's height in the early Files.   

 

Is she completely avoiding it though? It's clear she doesn't want Ran or Sonoko to know of the situation, since Conan was supposed to come alone in the Pool Case. In File 928 when Conan suggests whether or not she is bringing the food back to someone hidden in her hotel room, Sera responds with that it's for her boyfriend, jokingly of course. Ran and Sonoko were right next to her at the time, so I think that's worth mentioning.

 

I mean Sera's never really been a "direct" person, but I don't think she's really avoiding the topic here without any reason. It'd be nice if we could get it over with though 

 

File 846, Page 16:

Shinichi/Conan: "You and I have met somewhere before, am I right?"

Masumi: "Beats me... what do you think?"

Shinichi/Conan: "Ehh?!"

Masumi (Thinking): "My bad... but I can't tell you that yet... not until the time comes."

 

It's been 84 Files since she said this... it's clear that the time hasn't yet arrived.

 

As for what she's waiting for—what will make "the time" come? Something to do with MG and/or the middle brother, and even Shuichi/Subaru, perhaps? 

[Heliotropic 139]

File 846, Page 16:

Shinichi/Conan: "You and I have met somewhere before, am I right?"

Masumi: "Beats me... what do you think?"

Shinichi/Conan: "Ehh?!"

Masumi (Thinking): "My bad... but I can't tell you that yet... not until the time comes."

 

It's been 84 Files since she said this... it's clear that the time hasn't yet arrived.

 

As for what she's waiting for—what will make "the time" come? Something to do with MG and/or the middle brother, and even Shuichi/Subaru, perhaps? 

 

Well I wasn't really referring to that, more or less that Conan was going to meet Sera (and presumably the MG) in the pool case, but he didn't come alone. 

[EthanHunter 7]

Hmm... I totally forgot about "the time". Now that you mention it, what could it be? would be interesting if it has something to do with MG or even Shuukichi.

 

Well I wasn't really referring to that, more or less that Conan was going to meet Sera (and presumably the MG) in the pool case, but he didn't come alone. 

Well, when I say she is avoiding I do mean AFTER the pool case. If she wanted to discuss about it she had several opportunities, the simplest being calling Conan alone once more. It is clear MG is the one who told Sera not to discuss anything yet, MG probably doesn't completely trust Conan yet.

Gosho is just playing with us =.= There are so many things that need to be clarified, and instead of clarifying them he just seems to be posing more problems for us :/ though I must admit, no matter how bad I want all the mysteries in DC to be solved, I would be very sad when it ends so I think it's good how it is

 

Irrelevant stuff follows

 

Shuukichi has got me addicted to shogi :3
I am quite a chess player myself but shogi seems quite interesting if any of you guys want to try it out
also, the namesake of shuukichi haneda, Yoshiharu Habu, is a very interesting guy, not only is he perhaps the best ever shogi player, he is also an extremely good chess player which is surprising as the two games are quite different and both need a lot of time!

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Well I wasn't really referring to that, more or less that Conan was going to meet Sera (and presumably the MG) in the pool case, but he didn't come alone. 

I was just making a general statement—it wasn't meant to be a response. 

 

MG's first appearance was throughout Files 875–878 (Red Woman case — Picture on Masumi's phone; confirmed to be living with Masumi and to not trust Shinichi/Conan yet in the Romance Novelist Murder case). She told Masumi in File 878 to tell him if he got curious about her, to say that she was "your..." (Manga translation) or "his..." (Crunchyroll translation) little sister from outside the domain. She has no problem with him knowing that much. It's been 55 Files since her intro, and nearly two years. With Gosho now back on his usual pace, I'd say we have from a few cases from now (earliest probable) to 2020 (latest probable), with a middle range of 2017. My hope is before 2018-2020, but the Bourbon arc showed that Gosho can go 4 and 1/2 to 7 years until answering questions central to the arc.