Mary Discussion Thread

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Speaking of the file in question, if there's a red herring there, then is there a real hint, in the same place (Red herring: Haneda; Hint: Toyoda)?

 

Eh, I don't think that red herrings and real clues are implied to come in pairs like that.

[EthanHunter 7]

Volume 18, File 9 (179), pg 10, 3rd panel from the bottom

The possibility of someone else turning up shrunken was definitely forewarned.

Yeah, and that is exactly what bothers me. Obviously if they keep on using that drug several people should ideally shrink... so if we suppose the chance to shrink is 1/100 and they used it on about 300 people so far it is natural to assume 3 would shrink. Also, since ideally it's not even been a year since they used it on Shinichi, they wouldn't have had time to use it on thousands of people, few hundreds at most. 

Now let's suppose only 3 have shrunk so far, what is the chance of ALL of them being relevant and not just a random victim? By relevant I mean someone like Shinichi or Shiho or Mrs. Akai of course... the chance of all 3 of them being shrunk and not even one of them being killed is way too low... and more importantly not a single other person out of the hundreds of others has shrunk yet... again what are even the chances?

 

I think maybe, just a possibility is that certain people are just immune to dying from it and shrink instead... if we suppose Shiho, or her parents made it in a way that anybody related to them(which would include Mrs. Akai) if consumes it, they would not die and instead shrink... but then of course Shinichi shouldn't have shrunk.

 

Don't get me wrong though, I'm just suggesting that it would be sooo lucky for these guys to shrink from it and not die unless there is a logic behind it, such as immunity from it for certain people like I mentioned above. Also to add even I believe in the MG = Mrs. Akai theory, it seems the most logical one as of now.

[Guest]

Not really adding anything, I'm just a bit curious as why during the Shogi tournament and the Pool case

that he drew the eyes of MG differently. Pictured in the middle row (from files 902 and 903). 

and then decided to draw them the original way after that (File 928, 930) 

This could just merely be an art error that he didn't notice, if he sticks with the original design introduced in the top row from now on

then maybe this is just an oversight that can be moved to the Oversight thread. 

(pictures are chronological by appearance from L to R, T to B, none of these eyes were fixed in the volume release up to v87) 

 

 

 

GAH, so confusing. After having Conan remember MG with her original eye set several times (including 928, 930, and 939)

now in 941, he has drawn her with those new eyes from 902-903 again !! (which Conan didn't even see)

and now Haibara has MGs original eyes!!! (probably just makeup though since we know what Haibara's eyes look like)

 

 

 

And now here we are.... back to the three points again

Goddammit Gosho.......

 

[Rohan136 1]

I think that given the resemblance to Haibara is more than that to Sera, it won't be too wrong to assume that she may be Haibara's mother, i.e., Elena Miyano. She may have faked her death in the accident, and actually took a more developed version of the pill which was sure to turn her into a child. This would also explain why she said in File 903 (to Sera), "You didn't forget to tell him to come alone, did you?" to which Sera replies, "I made sure to tell him not to ring the kids along." Sera's reply means that she (the mystery girl) does not want the children as an audience, though she forgot about, which was a more obvious person to come along with Conan to meet Sera.

 

Then, there's this moment in File 775, where Sera seems to show a keen interest in "the well-mannered short haired girl", meaning their interest is not so much in Conan as it is in Ai. But they aren't sure about her (the mystery girl seems to be very cautious), though Sera is confident about Shinichi/Conan. Thus, instead of approaching Ai, they approach Conan.

 

Another reason for my thinking that she is Elena is her cautious attitude, she views Conan from a safe distance and at once finds the bug he planted and destroys it, also saying that it was a type she hadn't seen before. This reminds me of the BO and their cautious methods, and Elena was a member of the BO, though it seems that her invention was too dangerous, so she wanted to leave.

 

Another minor thing is the hair colour and the manner of speaking being similar to the Elena shown in Zero's flashback and to the Elena in Ai's tape recorder and to Ai herself.

 

Elena (in the tape for Ai) said, "Your father and I will have to go away from you for a while. I hope you understand." This means that their disappearance was a planned one. Maybe Elena and intercepted that the BO would try to kill her and thus she faked her death along with Atsushi.

 

 

 

Okay, there was this another piece that seemed to not fit much anywhere, in File 897, Conan says that Yukiko is pretty good in making disguises of ppl close to her, then thinks about how the last Haibara disguise she made for him was pretty good. Could it be that Yukiko is disguising someone to look like the mysterious girl...? The reason I kept this last paragraph a little separate is because it changes the theories I had so far put forward...

[RucyL 5]

About FILE 953

 

 

 

In File953, Sera calls MG "Mom", and Conan notices it. This basically confirms the theory of MG being Akai's mother.

 

Also, MG knocks out the criminal (without being seen). Than implies that she is very strong, even being in the body of a 12-year-old.

This makes me think that she was in some kind of secret service..   

 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Bumping this topic with copypasta. Sorry.

Mary is one of those overly suspicious but obviously fake suspects that Gosho uses to confuse the people who are new to his style and haven't seen his tricks before. Masumi overtly calls Mary mom, which makes two things pretty likely: Mary is a shrunken person and Mary spawned the Akai litter. That changes a lot of things as far as reasonable suspicion goes. Mary is not Asaka or Rum.

1) Haneda Kouji was the close friend of Shuukichi, and killing your kid's best friend would be pretty bad.

2) Okiya/Shuuichi seems to be worried about the presence of Asaka lurking around Masumi, meaning Asaka sounds like a bad deal. While the Akai family clearly has all sorts of problems, an evil mom doesn't seem to be one of them based on Mary's interactions with Masumi. Mary also helped Conan nail a killer.

3) No moves have been made against Conan or Haibara even though Mary knows Conan used to be Shinichi (she compares Conan to that kid from the past). Shinichi is supposed to be dead, and Haibara said that she couldn't tell the BO of Shinichi's survival because they would kill him before she could study him.

4) Mary is on the run and hiding from someone. The BO have great resources in Japan and know how to disappear. A top BO agent wouldn't need to do something as primitive as shuffle hotels while putting Masumi through public school. That leaves all sorts of records law enforcement can compel hotels to hand over. That suggests that Mary's enemy is not Japanese law enforcement.

5) The hints are suggesting Mary is most likely Elena's sister. (She looks like Haibs, Gosho mentioned a mother character has a mother sister.) Elena was nice, even though BO.

6) During his yearly talk, Gosho announced the presence of MI6/SIS with a new female character's silhouette. Guess who enjoys British-style tea in her hotel and has a tomboy child who speaks the Queen's English and has British table manners? Mary.

[Guest]

 6) During his yearly talk, Gosho announced the presence of MI6/SIS with a new female character's silhouette. 

 

That was just a question slide. He didn't create those slides

Gosho picks a color to choose an answer. Gosho chose Blue. 

SIS is only on there because it is listed in SDB 60+

 

"

If you could request cooperation from the various international organisations that have appeared in the series and have been listed in "Detective Conan 60+ to take down the Black Organisation, which organisation would you want to lend a hand?

Red: FBI

White: CIA

Blue: 公安警察 (kouan keisatsu) (Japanese intelligence)

Green: SIS

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

That was just a question slide. He didn't create those slides

Gosho picks a color to choose an answer. Gosho chose Blue. 

SIS is only on there because it is listed in SDB 60+

 

"

If you could request cooperation from the various international organisations that have appeared in the series and have been listed in "Detective Conan 60+ to take down the Black Organisation, which organisation would you want to lend a hand?

Red: FBI

White: CIA

Blue: 公安警察 (kouan keisatsu) (Japanese intelligence)

Green: SIS

I am aware of the context of the slide, but I think it is effectively an announcement that a character from SIS/MI6 will be involved. Just because Gosho doesn't make the slides doesn't mean he doesn't decide the content. None of the other groups on that slide are hypotheticals, and given the sudden bout of Britishness that has been going on, I think the writing is on the wall.

No one has fronted an idea who shadow woman is either. Gosho typically reuses the images he makes for keyholes, and none of the keyholes match the shadow figure as far as I know. It's far more detailed than a generic shadowperson.

[Guest]

I am aware of the context of the slide, but I think it is effectively an announcement that a character from SIS/MI6 will be involved. Just because Gosho doesn't make the slides doesn't mean he doesn't decide the content. None of the other groups on that slide are hypotheticals, and given the sudden bout of Britishness that has been going on, I think the writing is on the wall.

 

I don't disagree that MI6/SIS will show up some time soon, and Mary is a strong candidate for that possibility

 

but I disagree that a question choose for Gosho to answer would have been him "revealing a new character silhouette" 

 

especially since that silhouette looks like a random shutterstock stock image

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

but I disagree that a question choose for Gosho to answer would have been him "revealing a new character silhouette"

Eh, Gosho has said plenty of revealing things like this in past at these talks and elsewhere like in postcards. I don't think a new silhouette is out of character.

 

especially since that silhouette looks like a random shutterstock stock image

I have one hundred percent the opposite opinion. I'm looking at the detailed hairline, the dress, a chest shape that implies enormous boobs, and thinking there is way more detail than needed for a one-off drawing or pose. https://i.imgur.com/wJSKNR3.jpg

Gosho even went so far as to put a giant question mark by the silhouette, as if saying "guess who I am! w"

[Guest]

Gosho even went so far as to put a giant question mark by the silhouette, as if saying "guess who I am! w"

 

I still think its a big assumption that Gosho would have helped make the slides for the multiple choice questions that he was supposed to answer live

that would take all of the candid-ness and fun out of something like that, and kind of defeat the point of doing it. None of the questions in this section were even related to the main plot, they were purely for fun content about silly things. It would feel really odd for that kind of thing to just be tossed in there. 

 

plus, I feel like Gosho would have made a big deal of it. Sort of like he made a big deal out of the poster of the "three handsomes" that he drew a poster/ illustration for over a month ago, and how one of them was a big spoiler for the movie and was making their first movie appearance. Even though the poster/ illustration has not surfaced

[EthanHunter 7]

I still think its a big assumption that Gosho would have helped make the slides for the multiple choice questions that he was supposed to answer live

that would take all of the candid-ness and fun out of something like that, and kind of defeat the point of doing it. None of the questions in this section were even related to the main plot, they were purely for fun content about silly things. It would feel really odd for that kind of thing to just be tossed in there. 

 

plus, I feel like Gosho would have made a big deal of it. Sort of like he made a big deal out of the poster of the "three handsomes" that he drew a poster/ illustration for over a month ago, and how one of them was a big spoiler for the movie and was making their first movie appearance. Even though the poster/ illustration has not surfaced

Yes I agree, it doesn't make sense if Gosho creates the questions he is supposed to answer live. Yes the picture of the woman does seem somewhat detailed, but not THAT detailed imo... like if you had to make a woman's silhouette it's hard to make it less detailed than that, hairline, dress, etc. should be the first things that come to mind anyway. Besides, the one who made the question might have simply included that woman because he/she, just like a lot of other DC fans knows about this Mary=MI6 theory and was kind of playing with Gosho by bringing up something Gosho hasn't revealed yet right in front of his face

 

Btw what are you talking about in your last paragraph?

[Guest]

Btw what are you talking about in your last paragraph?

 

In the Animal Crossings hints from over the past month Gosho mentioned that he drew a poster / illustration for Movie 20 that had "three handsomes" in it. He said that the third person in the poster / illustration was making a debut in the movie. The third person is not Scotch, Date, or Kuroda. Also that everyone already knows that the character would not be overshadowed by the Akai / Amuro conflict. 

 

There are spoilers on the DCTP forums of who this character is because there was a sneak peek of the movie, but they haven't been officially confirmed yet, and the movie is not officially out yet in Japanese theaters, until April 16th. 

[EthanHunter 7]

Oh very interesting!

When you say third character, I suppose the first and second are Akai and Bourbon right?

The third person is not Scotch, Date, or Kuroda. Also that everyone already knows that the character would not be overshadowed by the Akai / Amuro conflict. 

What does that mean? Does it mean the third character would not be related to Akai/Amuro?

 

There are spoilers on the DCTP forums of who this character is because there was a sneak peek of the movie, but they haven't been officially confirmed yet, and the movie is not officially out yet in Japanese theaters, until April 16th. 

By sneak peek do you mean certain scenes of the movie were leaked or something like that? Also can you please mention which character is mentioned in the spoilers? I will have to wait for half a year before I watch it anyway Thanks a lot! ^^

[Guest]

Oh very interesting!

When you say third character, I suppose the first and second are Akai and Bourbon right?

What does that mean? Does it mean the third character would not be related to Akai/Amuro?

 

By sneak peek do you mean certain scenes of the movie were leaked or something like that? Also can you please mention which character is mentioned in the spoilers? I will have to wait for half a year before I watch it anyway Thanks a lot! ^^

 

The other two characters were not actually mentioned, I just assume that it might be Akai and Amuro as well, but you never know

 

By sneak peek, I mean that they had a special screening of the full movie for a select group of people, someone who was there has supposedly leaked certain parts of the movie to the internet. 

 

Warning: Possible Movie 20 Spoilers

The character is, according to the spoilers,

Jinpei Matsuda, who apparently knows Rei Furuya

 

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Jinpei_Matsuda

 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

1) Haneda Kouji was the close friend of Shuukichi

How'd you draw that conclusion? All Shukichi said was that Koji was the shogi player he respected the most. Shukichi was 11 when Koji died, and his surname didn't change from "Sera" to "Haneda" until after his high school graduation—he wouldn't have become Koji's brother-in-law/step-brother until 7-8 years after he died. He may not have actually met him. He certainly could've met him, and they could've been friends, in spite of their age gap, but did Shukichi explicitly say anything about Koji being a "close friend" in 947? Not that I recall.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

How'd you draw that conclusion? All Shukichi said was that Koji was the shogi player he respected the most. Shukichi was 11 when Koji died, and his surname didn't change from "Sera" to "Haneda" until after his high school graduation—he wouldn't have become Koji's brother-in-law/step-brother until 7-8 years after he died. He may not have actually met him. He certainly could've met him, and they could've been friends, in spite of their age gap, but did Shukichi explicitly say anything about Koji being a "close friend" in 947? Not that I recall.

I think I was reading between the lines there rather than relying on what was said exactly. You are technically right, we don't know how Shuukichi feels about Kohji other than deep respect for Shogi skills.

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

On 11/7/2015 at 5:23 PM, Guest said:

Not really adding anything, I'm just a bit curious as why during the Shogi tournament and the Pool case

that he drew the eyes of MG differently. Pictured in the middle row (from files 902 and 903). 

and then decided to draw them the original way after that (File 928, 930) 

 

This could just merely be an art error that he didn't notice, if he sticks with the original design introduced in the top row from now on

then maybe this is just an oversight that can be moved to the Oversight thread. 

 

(pictures are chronological by appearance from L to R, T to B, none of these eyes were fixed in the volume release up to v87) 

 

 

On 11/30/2015 at 7:34 AM, Guest said:

  Reveal hidden contents

GAH, so confusing. After having Conan remember MG with her original eye set several times (including 928, 930, and 939)

now in 941, he has drawn her with those new eyes from 902-903 again !! (which Conan didn't even see)

and now Haibara has MGs original eyes!!! (just makeup)

 

 

 

On 3/12/2016 at 10:27 PM, Guest said:

And now here we are.... back to the three points again

Goddammit Gosho.......

 

maintaining the three points

(side note: none of these eye differences above were fixed for the volume versions)

 

 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

5 hours ago, Jimmy-kud0-tv2 said:

maintaining the three points

(side note: none of these eye differences above were fixed for the volume versions)

 

 

I guess Gosho really wanted to emphasize a similarity of Shukichi, exclusively, from File 899 to File 905.

 

It's pretty strange, though, that the Volume 85 and Volume 86 didn't fix her eyes.

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

4 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

I guess Gosho really wanted to emphasize a similarity of Shukichi, exclusively, from File 899 to File 905.

It's pretty strange, though, that the Volume 85 and Volume 86 didn't fix her eyes.

 

except there is the one from the department store case's last page where her eyes look like they did from those other files 

even though Conan could not have seen her eyes during the time they were like that. This one wasn't fixed either. 

it was under the "reveal hidden contents" thing above 

so 899, 902, 903, and 941 for the weird eyes

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy-kud0-tv2 said:

 

except there is the one from the department store case's last page where her eyes look like they did from those other files 

even though Conan could not have seen her eyes during the time they were like that. This one wasn't fixed either. 

it was under the "reveal hidden contents" thing above 

so 899, 902, 903, and 941 for the weird eyes

 

Yeah, this was even weirder. It's not even really that difficult of a fix.

 

I guess when Gosho was hinting that she was related to other characters (Shukichi, Shiho/Ai), Gosho drew it like that.

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

but her original eye drawing would have been a much better comparison for Haibara, which is why is so weird

 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

1 hour ago, Jimmy-kud0-tv2 said:

but her original eye drawing would have been a much better comparison for Haibara, which is why is so weird

 

 

But evidently, Shinichi/Conan needed Shiho/Ai to get those eye bags to notice this.

[gg1998 3]

In file 953, around the ending panels Mary cautions Sera about Conan by claiming that the later has changed over the period of 10 years. It's like encountering a demon in the darkness.

• Probably the reason of her thought is Conan's manipulation of Kogoro for his own needs.
• So does Mary think that Conan in future might use Sera as a mean to achieve his ultimate goals?
• How is it going to affect Conan and Sera's relation?
• Also Mary and Gin used exactly same proverb in that chapter, is there something common between Gin and Mary?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

7 hours ago, gg1998 said:

In file 953, around the ending panels Mary cautions Sera about Conan by claiming that the later has changed over the period of 10 years. It's like encountering a demon in the darkness.

• Probably the reason of her thought is Conan's manipulation of Kogoro for his own needs.
• So does Mary think that Conan in future might use Sera as a mean to achieve his ultimate goals?
• How is it going to affect Conan and Sera's relation?
• Also Mary and Gin used exactly same proverb in that chapter, is there something common between Gin and Mary?

 

Honestly Mary's probably just paranoid because someone attempted to give her a strange drug to kill her but turned her into a kid, which makes her question other strange children like Conan. I honestly think Mary's statement is about as profound as: "Gee, Conan now acts a lot older than he appears to be, probably because he is an adult turned into a kid. So, like, don't assume he will be the same as an actual 6-year old and underestimate him, I guess lol."

 

Overall, this is one of Gosho's typical trash clues. Gosho's repeat tactic is making a suspect character seem malicious by having them say something vaguely sinister - in this case the same thing Gin said. Remember when lots of people thought there was a deep meaning to Okiya's creepier lines, but then they mostly all turned out to be complete throwaways that didn't warrant any explanation? I remember. The way you avoid falling for Gosho's trap is remembering that actions are everything, words are worthless. Mary was willing to confirm her presence, abilities, and knowledge to Conan by using the bowtie in front of him and taking out a culprit instead of letting him get away. That's an overall sign of trust, although she may not be willing to fully cooperate and exchange info. (Because when does an Akai ever share info? Younger sis doesn't even know older brother 2 plays shogi. Pretty unhealthy family dynamics there.)

 

<hr>

Quote

• It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment.
  • Sherlock Holmes, A Study in Scarlet , Part 1, chap. 3 - Arthur Conan Doyle (1887)

• It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.
  • Sherlock Holmes, A Scandal in Bohemia - Arthur Conan Doyle (1891)

All these speculations about Wakita being BO or whatever are premature. He has yet to do anything of importance and little that would give clues about his allegiance. It would be nice if everyone patiently waited for his second spotlight case before declaring him Rum's mentor or somesuch. Wakita has a better chance of being Amuro's former boxing instructor for all we know now.