[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 888-890 (Tea Party Murder)

[Black Demon 466]

THIS THREAD is used to discuss about SPOILERS. In other words, if you only read the English version and wish to wait for the official release instead of getting spoiled, this is NOT the right place for you!
 
RULES OF THE SPOILER-ONLY DISCUSSION THREAD:
 
1. Any kind of spoiler involving the case (pictures, texts, information, full scans...) of any language that is released before the actual English version must be posted HERE. The English translations of the spoilers must also be posted here. Please DO NOT share them at the thread made for English-files readers only, in ANY form (NOT even in spoiler boxes).
 
2. Any kind of discussion involving the spoilers must be posted HERE. Please DO NOT reveal, give hints or talk about any information or event (that has not yet happened in the English releases) at the thread made for English-files readers only, in ANY form (NOT even in spoiler boxes).
 
3. Despite being a Spoiler-only thread, EVERY spoiler and discussion involving events that has not yet happened in the English releases STILL has to be put inside Spoiler boxes. When the mentioned file is officially released in English, this is not necessary anymore.
 
4. NO DIRECT LINK to Original Japanese scans (RAWs) or to ANY English manga scan because we don't want to have any problem with lawyers. (Japanese spoiler pictures are allowed as long as the amount and quality of which are very very far away from a full scan, like the ones we usually have).
 
Q&A:

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1. Why is this whole thing necessary?
A: Please click here.
 
2. Why do I still have to use Spoiler boxes here?
A: In case some member (who only follows the English files) get confused, misclick, or just simply get in the wrong thread... etc., this rule is made NOT to let spoilers get revealed to them. And since this is quite complicated, confusions are unavoidable, especially for new members.
 
3. How do I use Spoiler boxes anyway?
A: Just simply type the following:

[spoiler]Text you want to write[/spoiler]

Or more manually:
 
Step 1: Click the "Special BBCode" icon at the upper-left side of the edit toolbar.

 
Step 2: In BBCode, select "Spoiler".

 
Step 3: Enter the text that you want to put inside Spoiler boxes, then click OK.

 
4. If the spoiler is not obvious enough to viewers (e.g. one must click a link in order to see it), do I have to use Spoiler boxes?
A: No, using link addresses is also a hiding method. Again the purpose of this is just to protect the spoilers and info. from being viewed by members who do not want to see them (but get in here by accident). However, you should STATE CLEARLY that it's a spoiler, just to make sure.
 
5. Can I join the discussion in the other thread as well?
A: Of course you can. HOWEVER, as mentioned in the rules above, you MUST NOT reveal, give hints or talk about ANYTHING that spoils.
 
6. Who are you anyway? Why do we have to follow YOUR rules?
A: Not mine. Chek suggested that it should be this way. Also, the person who create the threads must write the rules clearly on the very first post from now on, whether they want it or not; this applies to every member (not only me).

 
ANYWAY, everyone should read this whole post carefully before posting or viewing anything. If you are mistaken for not paying attention to it, the creator of the thread, the moderators and every other forum members will NOT take any responsibility.
 

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Yay, the forum is back! File 888 has already been released in English so I won't post the link to the Chinese file anymore.

 

Have fun discussing the case and the plot!

[User 4869 100]

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KnightusMax: File 888 is now available in English! 

KnightusMax: (Files 886 & 887 are on the way

 

If you are in doubt if the translator drop 886-887. Dont be. they will be released eventually. Rejoice for the new file and the

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Plot

for now

[Black Demon 466]

889 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2880606916

 

There're some interesting things in this chapter regarding Amuro...

[User 4869 100]

Gosho say Akemi has nothing to do with Akai/Amuro rivalry. Interesting to see if Akemi is even Amuro childhood friend

[75aichan 49]

I don't see why it would be interesting that he was Akemi childhood friend...but if he was close to Ai's mother,he might give us some info about her and her researches...

I wonder if that's the reason why he didn't want to kill Sherry in the MT case.

[User 4869 100]

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I don't see why it would be interesting that he was Akemi childhood friend..

 

 

Because we don't need another childhood-out- of- no-where-friend.

[75aichan 49]

I'm sick of all these childhood friend.a Mother-child relationship is more interesting.

Anyway,it seems like Amuro didn't have a lot of friends as a child,he seems to fight a lot with the other kids.Poor Amuro.

[ThatLee4 10]

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Ive always said that Amuro is my my favourite character second to Heiji. And kudos to Gosho for bringing the story on and mixing it up a bit with different type stories and now think Borbon back story.

I hear some people saying if he will turn into a good guy or die.

Personally i want him to die. Let me explain how.

Borbon cannot be figured out yet. But im thinking something like from young he was adopted into the BO. But as he grew got sharp. Worked for them he realised their bad mission. But instead of just leaving he became an anti-villian: someone who plays the role of a villian to manipulate realtionships in order to get information and gain trust, to try and get individuals in the org to do good. He seemingly does bad things with the org knowing it bad but trys to do jobs as clean as possible. Hence why he may had joined the police and Date ended up dead.

So he plays like a secret selfwilled double agent. Works out Conan and is plan. But still acts as a BO feeding Conan deeper into the orgs mission. This encourages him to take down the org mor aggresivly. Knowing Conan is working to bring it down. Also teams up with Kir as he likes her (they would make a cool couple) him working out she is undercover (maybe nicknsme Zero means he can see through peoples cover ups). Thus bring Kir back into the story in a good way. But eventually he exposes the BO's intention in an epic way. Leaving a path for Conan to follow. But Amuro has to get himself corned in order to expose them. Resulting in his death. Him dying would make an emotional character death, which is needed and i hear others suggest. Plus this death will make Amuro a legend.

[75aichan 49]

@ThatLee

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I'm not into the double agent thing...there wasn't any clues to prove your idea.

Moreover it's not Gosho's style to kill a character that have been there for a long time,especially if he gives a (sad) background to that character.Amuro seems to have a lot of fan,so I don't see him being killed.

 

I personally would like him to be on the good side,to play the same role as Rena but in a more active way.Or another Vermouth but on Ai's side instead of Conan's.

[ThatLee4 10]

@ 75aichan

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i agree i didnt want Borbon to be a double agent too. Its a bit over played with Akai and Kir and her dad. Thats why i though he would be more likeva selfwilled renegade to the Organisation working by himself on his own team from like teenage years. But then hooks up with Kir and they both sabotage the org and gather info. But he still is not connected or working with FBI. He just allows her to do what she does with the FBI. He just plays an anti villian role, but Kir understands his intentions. I hope you like this basic idea?

Just a couple questions, how can Amuro be a good guy on the org but not seem like a double agent?

And how can he be on Ai's side not Conan's as they are on the same team? I understand his motivation may be Ai as he had a nice friendship with her mum. But him knowing Conan's mission should encourage him to expose the org in a smart way. But not nessacarily work with Conan. But more for Conan and Ai and having a weird friendship with them.

I think he should die because the series needs a lot more serious tension and heart break to it like how when good characters in Attack on Titian die. We need that level of suspense and threat likebin the desperate revival when Conan was in the locker hunted down by Gin and Vodka. I want Borbon to put Conan in a compromising situation to show he knows who Conan is. But i also feel if more risks are taken by characters like Amuro where the org will wabt to kill hum more exciting stuff will happen than these stupid revenge murders over silly stuff, which is Gosho's style abd is boring. But more rather exposing truth and acting on the side of justice taking risks, adding more to plot abd character development. I think this will make Amuro a legend.

My comments are not based on fact just ideas.

[75aichan 49]

  On 2/23/2014 at 9:35 AM, ThatLee4 said:

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i agree i didnt want Borbon to be a double agent too. Its a bit over played with Akai and Kir and her dad. Thats why i though he would be more likeva selfwilled renegade to the Organisation working by himself on his own team from like teenage years. But then hooks up with Kir and they both sabotage the org and gather info. But he still is not connected or working with FBI. He just allows her to do what she does with the FBI. He just plays an anti villian role, but Kir understands his intentions. I hope you like this basic idea?

Just a couple questions, how can Amuro be a good guy on the org but not seem like a double agent?

And how can he be on Ai's side not Conan's as they are on the same team? I understand his motivation may be Ai as he had a nice friendship with her mum. But him knowing Conan's mission should encourage him to expose the org in a smart way. But not nessacarily work with Conan. But more for Conan and Ai and having a weird friendship with them.

I think he should die because the series needs a lot more serious tension and heart break to it like how when good characters in Attack on Titian die. We need that level of suspense and threat likebin the desperate revival when Conan was in the locker hunted down by Gin and Vodka. I want Borbon to put Conan in a compromising situation to show he knows who Conan is. But i also feel if more risks are taken by characters like Amuro where the org will wabt to kill hum more exciting stuff will happen than these stupid revenge murders over silly stuff, which is Gosho's style abd is boring. But more rather exposing truth and acting on the side of justice taking risks, adding more to plot abd character development. I think this will make Amuro a legend.

My comments are not based on fact just ideas.

 

 

 

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I personally think for now he's loyal to the BO because he has nobody by his side.Date is dead,Ai's mother was gone when he was a kid...so he kinda lost all the people who could help him to stay good guy.So without any friends aroud he kinda rely on the BO,doing what the boss wants him to do.

 

Not all the good guys in the BO have to be double agents...look at shiho or Akemi,they were good people but they did wrong things for "good" reasons.

There is also Vermouth who has a good side even if she stays faithfull to the Boss.

 

Then we could see the parallel with vermouth...first Gin claimed that he doesn't like Bourbon because he's like Vermouth,secretive and all.We know Vermouth does things on her side,for her own interests,(protect Ran, Kogoro,Conan).

Bourbon could be the same:trying to kill Akai because he think he deserves to die,but later he could change his mind because Ai reminds him of helena.I can imagine Ai saying something similar to what Helena said to amuro.By extension he could decide to protect Conan because he's ai's friend.

 

Helena supposedly died in an accident,but we saw in volume 41 that she may have been killed.perharps Amuro only think she died in an accident and thus he stays loyal to the BO,since he has no reason to hate them.

 

So if you mean that in the future he may work with Rena in order to help Conan to destroy the BO,I agree with you.but for now he's just a BO member who wants to kill Akai,but with a good side,not a double agent.

And I think Ai could trigger his good side because she just looks like her mother...that's the only idea that came to my mind after seeing the flashback.

 

Concerning his death,well I agree it could give a more serious tone to the BO plot,for now I can't imagine that but who knows what Gosho is planning?

 

Anyway I hope you get what I mean,this is all pure speculation based on the information we had^^

[ThatLee4 10]

  On 2/23/2014 at 2:08 PM, 75aichan said:

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I personally think for now he's loyal to the BO because he has nobody by his side.Date is dead,Ai's mother was gone when he was a kid...so he kinda lost all the people who could help him to stay good guy.So without any friends aroud he kinda rely on the BO,doing what the boss wants him to do.

Not all the good guys in the BO have to be double agents...look at shiho or Akemi,they were good people but they did wrong things for "good" reasons.

There is also Vermouth who has a good side even if she stays faithfull to the Boss.

Then we could see the parallel with vermouth...first Gin claimed that he doesn't like Bourbon because he's like Vermouth,secretive and all.We know Vermouth does things on her side,for her own interests,(protect Ran, Kogoro,Conan).

Bourbon could be the same:trying to kill Akai because he think he deserves to die,but later he could change his mind because Ai reminds him of helena.I can imagine Ai saying something similar to what Helena said to amuro.By extension he could decide to protect Conan because he's ai's friend.

Helena supposedly died in an accident,but we saw in volume 41 that she may have been killed.perharps Amuro only think she died in an accident and thus he stays loyal to the BO,since he has no reason to hate them.

So if you mean that in the future he may work with Rena in order to help Conan to destroy the BO,I agree with you.but for now he's just a BO member who wants to kill Akai,but with a good side,not a double agent.

And I think Ai could trigger his good side because she just looks like her mother...that's the only idea that came to my mind after seeing the flashback.

Concerning his death,well I agree it could give a more serious tone to the BO plot,for now I can't imagine that but who knows what Gosho is planning?

Anyway I hope you get what I mean,this is all pure speculation based on the information we had^^

Yeah i like what you said. Its very simular if not better than what i said. But lets see what Gosho does.

[75aichan 49]

yeah wait and see...we always are surprised by Gosho

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I haven't really had time to closely examine the case but I suspect the solution has something to do with the color of the tea.

For Amuro, the nickname "Zero" ("Rei" in Japanese) is another Gundam reference. The Gundam character Amuro Ray's given name is pronounced the same way zero (Rei) is in Japanese. I suspect there will be another real reason for Amuro's nickname in-story though.

Amuro seems pretty young when he met Elena, like 6-10 years old. (He really does seem to be a Black Organization child.) That would place his meeting with Elena back before Shiho was born, assuming she really is 18. It seems that Elena and Atsushi knew they were going away/dying before even Shiho was born. Given how close Amuro seems to be to the Miyano family, I wonder of that has something to do with the reason he hates Akai. Does Amuro know the whole story behind Akai's betrayal? Amuro didn't seem incredibly upset that Shiho apparently died though so I'm not really sure about that theory. We do know Amuro's skin color is relevant for some reason according to the interview with Gosho, so that is something to keep in mind.

Now that Amuro knows Conan met Rikumichi and that both Shuuichi and Rikumichi touched Conan's cellphone (from eavesdropping on Jodie) the only information Amuro is missing is knowing Conan has two identical cellphones and that he loaned one to Jodie in order to get the body in the truck identified. Those two pieces are all Amuro needs now to deduce how Akai faked his death.

[75aichan 49]

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hmm yeah I think the rivalry between Akai and Amuro doesn't concern the Miyanos...

Maybe Akai killed Amuro's best friend,or girlfriend,but akemi was there to play the same role as her mother: she prevented Amuro from doing wrong things.However when Akemi died he had nobody to stop him from killing Akai,and his hatred even increased.

 

That's the only idea that comes to my mind.

 

In the MT case it looks like he was kinda pissed when Sherry "died".

[ThatLee4 10]

  On 2/23/2014 at 11:09 PM, 75aichan said:

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hmm yeah I think the rivalry between Akai and Amuro doesn't concern the Miyanos...

Maybe Akai killed Amuro's best friend,or girlfriend,but akemi was there to play the same role as her mother: she prevented Amuro from doing wrong things.However when Akemi died he had nobody to stop him from killing Akai,and his hatred even increased.

That's the only idea that comes to my mind.

In the MT case it looks like he was kinda pissed when Sherry "died".

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Maybe Akai is the reason Date died. And that is why Amuro hates Akai. That would be a twist. And would make Akia not as good as we think he is.

I wanna know what Zero means and what he was like with Ai's mum, fighting and stuff. Maybe he grew up in a hot country why his skin is dark and the file is before Ai mum joins the bo in Japan?

How can is skin colour be important?

[User 4869 100]

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Maybe Akai is the reason Date died

 

I think it is pretty clear how Date dies (hit and run), and Gin mention Bourbon hate Akai before Amuro learn of Date death.

[75aichan 49]

  On 2/24/2014 at 1:09 AM, ThatLee4 said:

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 Maybe Akai is the reason Date died. And that is why Amuro hates Akai. That would be a twist. And would make Akia not as good as we think he is.

I wanna know what Zero means and what he was like with Ai's mum, fighting and stuff. Maybe he grew up in a hot country why his skin is dark and the file is before Ai mum joins the bo in Japan?

How can is skin colour be important?

 

 

 

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I guess Akai had to kill several people in order to have a high position in the BO,it won't whange the fact that Akai is a good person,but he probably did wrong things to complete his mission.

And maybe among the people Akai killed,there was someone that Amuro appreciated(a friend,a girlfriend..)as user said,it can't be Date.

 

About the skin color,my first guess would be that he's a half...maybe that's the reason he got into fights with other kids,and maybe that's also why helena get close to him.

Amuro is pretty young in this flashback(8-9 or something like that),so I guess Shiho wasn't even born yet.helena was already working for the BO.But the idea of Amuro growing up in a hot country before he met Helena still works.

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

  On 2/23/2014 at 9:15 PM, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

Now that Amuro knows Conan met Rikumichi and that both Shuuichi and Rikumichi touched Conan's cellphone (from eavesdropping on Jodie) the only information Amuro is missing is knowing Conan has two identical cellphones and that he loaned one to Jodie in order to get the body in the truck identified. Those two pieces are all Amuro needs now to deduce how Akai faked his death.

 

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My guess is that he will get that info by talking with Ran,perhaps, no.