Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 11, 2014 On 5/11/2014 at 5:24 AM, Chekhov MacGuffin said: Also, I am a bit concerned that Amuro's friends aren't wearing any black. There is no reason that lower level agents are bound to wear black, but it's just a detail that concerns me. (And those guys in front of the Kudo house are definitely news/paparazzi. Look at their vans.) I don't think those guys chasing Jodie and Camel are BOs, even though they carry guns and definitely know Akai, and somehow Akai knows that they aren't too. Otherwise Kir would be dead for sure. Also, I don't think there is any indication that Ran and Okiya were watching at two different times, Gosho must have dropped some hints had that been the case. The only explanation I can think of is that one or both of them were watching a re-broadcast version for Japanese audiences (and they didn't erase the "LIVE"). While it may sounds unprofessional, they didn't need to erase it when people know that it's a re-broadcast of a live from a different country and not one itself. This explains the news flash and why the people we assumed to be reporters showed up in front of his house (if it's really "LIVE", Yusaku would not be in Japan and is receiving the award instead). A problem with this assumption is that Ran would have known already that Yusaku had got the award, but perhaps nobody told her. I also think that the possibility of Okiya being Yukiko can be ruled out. Someone from Spoiler Cbox pointed out that since Amuro has revealed Okiya's neck and part of his chest, if he's wearing a latex mask it would be busted. Also Yukiko would need some equipment to bind her, uhm, "things" and stuff her body info looking more masculine, which might also have been discovered in the process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glass Heart 34 Report post Posted May 11, 2014 Quote Also, I don't think there is any indication that Ran and Okiya were watching at two different times, Gosho must have dropped some hints had that been the case. The last chapter shows clearly that Subaru and Ran are watching the same thing at the same time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scarlet92 1 Report post Posted May 11, 2014 How about this.. Okiya is really okiya, a someone who is a fan of yusaku, maybe after conan knew that okiya is a fan of yusaku, he used that chance to talk with okiya sometimes while using his father voice.. then, he request okiya to do something for him.. since its yusaku, he just okay with it.. and okiya really dont know anything.. and I guess okiya really is the second brother, thats why he have some charisma like akai.. So, maybe akai told conan he have a brother who is a fan of yusaku, a like-detective man..then conan use the voice of his father to contact with okiya.. request him tk do a favour or something like that.. Akai always there but he is still hiding everywhere, even the second brother@okiya dont know about it.. And I really like the idea that the man outside of the house is not BO's.. conan knew that, and thats why he is okay to bring out akai.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scarlet92 1 Report post Posted May 11, 2014 So, in the train, maybe okiya came together with yukiko because yusaku (actually conan) told him to And without him realize, there is another okiya (akai in disguise), which is on hiding, just wait to come off if anything happend.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glass Heart 34 Report post Posted May 11, 2014 ... Are you a fan of Death Note ? Seems like the "third Kira" theory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balthazar Manfredie 226 Report post Posted May 11, 2014 Reveal hidden contents I have a feeling that the BOSS will appear in that gosho-shadow-mask form in file 900 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engineer4869 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 I think that Amuro's true allegiance is not with BO. Conan had the idea that Amuro could be with the Secret Police (Amuro's relation with the late Wataru can be a proof), so he would have the confidence of revealing the real Akai in his plan because he knows that the guys that are after the FBI are not part of BO. Now, the real mystery for me is why does Amuro want to meet Akai but is not informing the BO about it? If Amuro is really in the BO, then he would have told Gin about the possiblity that Akai is alive and knowing Gin, he will kill Kir right away. So I think later on, Amuro (and maybe Vermouth) will become "enemy of the bad guys" and will possibly help Conan and Akai taking down the Org. But from this thought alone, I am truly getting the chills from what the BO and their boss is really up to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chekhov MacGuffin 1089 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 On 5/13/2014 at 12:06 PM, Engineer4869 said: I think that Amuro's true allegiance is not with BO. Conan had the idea that Amuro could be with the Secret Police (Amuro's relation with the late Wataru can be a proof), so he would have the confidence of revealing the real Akai in his plan because he knows that the guys that are after the FBI are not part of BO. Now, the real mystery for me is why does Amuro want to meet Akai but is not informing the BO about it? If Amuro is really in the BO, then he would have told Gin about the possiblity that Akai is alive and knowing Gin, he will kill Kir right away. So I think later on, Amuro (and maybe Vermouth) will become "enemy of the bad guys" and will possibly help Conan and Akai taking down the Org. But from this thought alone, I am truly getting the chills from what the BO and their boss is really up to. I too am questioning Amuro's allegiance based on some of the recent developments. To be clear, I don't think he is a good guy (e.g. a law enforcement infiltrator like Kir), based on what he has done so far. His tactics to lure out Akai are too extreme to be professional. I would expect being raised by or near the Organization would have rubbed off on him some. That doesn't preclude Amuro though from making associations later in life with law enforcement (see Date) that might have altered his allegiance or created chances for him to pursue his own goals behind the Organization's back. We also have Conan's thoughts to think about: Amuro didn't aim to kill Shiho on the train. Conan wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't important. Conan doesn't know about Amuro and Elena, but there may be more to it than simply "protect Shiho because I knew Elena". I have a feeling that Amuro is badly misguided somehow. If Amuro does have associations outside the Black Org, I think he might have used them now. In the latest chapter, Amuro's friends (not the reporters in front of the Kudo house) who attempted to intercept the FBI were carrying revolvers rather than pistols. Revolvers tend to be more associated with the police, while the BO we have seen tend to prefer pistols. They also aren't wearing black. Finally, it's unlikely Amuro would have any allies in the BO right now because his theories about Akai being alive are only known to Vermouth and not too popular within the BO. Amuro put Vermouth in a hard spot, so she is not inclined to help. None of these are decisive, but together they do present the suggestion Amuro is using outside help who may be law enforcement of sorts. Random idea, but what if Amuro is in the process of being cultivated as an informant on the Org by the Japanese secret police? Maybe he was discovered while at police academy because he had parents with secret police and someone recognized him or something like that. I'm going to guess he might be an orphan or similar because usually a child wouldn't run to Elena for treatment if his parents were still around. Maybe Amuro has some misconception about Shuuichi's allegiance, or Shuuichi killed someone for the Organization who turned out to be Japanese police and close to Amuro? The Japanese police might help Amuro if their interests align in order to encourage his cooperation with them. A status as informant would explain this sort of hybrid "does some good things, but still helps the Organization approach" Amuro has been using. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
75aichan 49 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 your idea is interesting Chek,I'm actually curious to know what kind of connection Amuro had with Elena,and why it seems to be important...And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that the people following the FBI aren't BO... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Engineer4869 0 Report post Posted May 14, 2014 Hmm, if it turns out to be like Master Chekov's random thought, then it will really make Amuro's character a lot more twisted than it is right now. I just thought of this. What if Amuro and Akai have sort of a "promise" to each other made earlier in the storyline? Most likely it would be protecting Japan, and thus, protecting Shiho, which I think they're both doing right now (based on Amuro's actions and his relation to Elena). And the reason for Amuro hating Akai is that Akai chose to be part of the FBI rather than the Japanese Secret Police. Maybe Amuro has a deep reason for hating the FBI (killed Shiho's parents, maybe? No one knows how they died, right?) and this could also turn out to be Amuro hating the BO for what they did with Akemi, more the reason to infiltrate it. Sorry, I just can't help it. I just don't want to see someone as intelligent as Amuro losing shamefully together with the BO when Conan strikes the final blow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darknight10 1 Report post Posted May 15, 2014 SPOILER TAG i do not know how to put that spoiler thing so if someone can help me, that will be awesome So after reading file 896, and reading your thoughts, here are my takes in this one. First, the real Okiya is Sera and Shuíchi's brother. His age is not really 27(as what stated in wiki) but a bit younger. It makes sense since Sera said once that his brother is a detective and it seems that her brother knows Conan well. Most likely, he already met Conan before(which can be the time when Ran and Sonoko saw Okiya in Shinichi's house). Second, I have three suspects on who the Okiya right now is. 1. The real Okiya is the guy Bourbon is talking with. It makes sense. I mean, he doesn't need to do anything. As plain as he is. 2. He's Yusaku Kudo. The reason why he wants to watch the Macademy Awards is because he is Yusaku. And most probably Yukiko is the one disguising as Yusaku. 3. It's Heiji. After that Vermouth face-off, he didn't have any part against the BO anymore. And knowing him, he is willing to help his friend, Shinichi, in this one. He is also a good fighter so it won't trouble him going against Bourbon. Kaitou Kid won't be because I saw here that Gosho said no more Kaito Kid. Yukiko will also be eliminated since we already saw a part of Okiya's chest. So we can deduct that he is a he. Obviously, he is not Akai. Third, about Bourbon's identity, as Gin said, he wants to make moves on his own. That makes his identity more interesting. His gang outside Shinichi's house and the one chasing Jodie and Camel aren't from BO. If they are, why will they "follow" him? I mean, yes he is a coded member. But to have a gang in his own, I think it's too much. And of course, if the BO knows this, Gin will definitely be here. We are talking about Akai, his mortal enemy. And we can't just ignore the conversation of Conan and Bourbon during that teacher case. Conan suspects Bourbon that he is not tied with BO 100%. Lastly, I'm hoping this will be the prelude of the ending of this manga. I hope their boss will already come out and all the characters will have their part. Since Shinichi's parents are already involved, I think this will come to an end already. Bourbon already suspects there's something with Conan. In addition, Okiya is living in Yusaku's house where Shinichi is staying before. So, after some time, Bourbon can easily deduct that Conan, Shinichi, Yusaku, Okiya, Akai and the FBI are connected. So I'm also thinking that from BO, Bourbon will be guy who'll discover that Shinichi is Conan. 2 mysteries I do not know yet. 1. The mysterious girl with Sera. 2. Vermouth's real intentions. I mean she protects Conan and Haibara. If the BO knows about it, it'll be chaos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nara-chan 38 Report post Posted May 15, 2014 Spoiler Tutorial: 1. Put "[ spoiler ]" without the quotation marks and spaces. 2. Write the script you want to put inside the spoiler box. 3. Put "[ / spoiler ]" without the spaces and quotation marks. Thoughts: Nothing. My mind has been filled with hype. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chekhov MacGuffin 1089 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 Contains speculations: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3041024176Chinese text spoilers. Will edit and post a translation if I see one.Edit.. well um. Things seem to end very suddenly. Reveal hidden contents We get Amuro's full name, Furuya Rei, and he is angry because he thinks the FBI were involved in Date's death. Akai sniped some tires and speaks to Amuro over the phone. He is an infiltrator for the Japanese secret police it seems. Yuusaku was playing as Okiya to cover for Akai and Yukiko picked up the award for him. Vermouth has a chat with Yukiko. Amuro then goes back to work at the Poirot. End of case. The next file is named "Scarlet Epilogue.https://i.imgur.com/lX8e5L5.jpgApparently fake text on real image: http://im69.gulfup.com/GCgKVg.jpghttp://im84.gulfup.com/sgijWn.jpghttp://im89.gulfup.com/0XT4Z2.jpghttp://www.beika-street.net/index.php?topic=2674.msg113491#newZenthisoror translation Reveal hidden contents Phone call sceneAkai: Bourbon...or rather, I believe these days it's Amuro Tooru-kun, isn't it?Amuro: Akai...Shuuchi...Akai: As an apology for putting your friends' cars out of action (Zennote: I think he shot out their tyres in a previous page?), I've given them a modest sort of gift...I've given them the Glock 17 Kusuda Rikumichi used to shoot himself...Akai: If you can trace back its sales route you might be able to find out something...Akai: This is Japan...that sort of thing is more in your field than the FBI's, am I right?Amuro: You've...don't tell me you've worked out my identity!?Akai: Well, I suspected you right from the time when we were in the organisation together but it was a big mistake when you let slip to that boy that your nickname was Zero. There aren't many names that lead to nickname of Zero. It was easy to find out, Furuya Rei-kun. No doubt you were planning to hand me over, make a big name for yourself, and then use that to get closer to the inner circle of the organisation but, I'll tell you this... I'd rather you didn't blinker yourself to only what's directly ahead of you and lose sight of the real prey in this hunt... You're one of the men I don't want to have as an enemy...Akai: Also, about him, I regret what happened, even now.Jody: Him?Akai: Alright, Camel, start the car...Amuro: About him...I regret what happened...even now...Man1: Furuya-san, what shall we do? Do we give chase?Amuro: Given that he's worked out who we are, any further pursuit is dangerous...Please withdraw...I'll explain everything that happened to the higher-ups...Amuro: Ah, I do apologise...there seems to have been some misunderstanding on my part...I'll see myself out now...Okiya: Yes...Amuro: Before I go...could I ask one question?Amuro: Why did you let a stranger such as myself into the house? That isn't usual, is it? Okiya: Well, from your expression, I judged that there was something you desperately wished to speak to me about so...although I did think that you were very talkative and unusually conversational delivery man...Amuro: Haah...I see...Jodie: And? Who the heck were they, back there? I didn't understand a single thing...Akai: Our standpoints are different but...Akai: Fundamentally, they're the same as us...they're wolves, trying to sink their teeth into Them.Okiya: Any kind of listening devices set up around the house, none...Alright! You can come out now!Conan: Aaaaaah...I'm ssshoooo tired...Conan: God, couldn't you have at least tried to stick to the plan we came up with? You just started talking...I was seriously scared we might get find out...Okiya: But it all went perfectly well...The basics were that I speak into the voice changer hidden in this mask...If I was asked to take off my mask, or asked a difficult question, I'd cough twice as a signal, and you would speak through the voice-changer's speakers in my stead...You'd be using the monitors to see him as he questions and match it to my movements, and come up with answers, both keen and smooth. and then if I wanted to speak, I just had to clear my throat once... Because it's harder to tell vocal differences from when you're clearing your throat...Wonderfully directed! I almost want to be awarded for Best Supporting Actor!Page 15:MacAcademy Host: So, mr Kudo, have you any plans for your next piece of work?Kudo: Although,in all fairness, the one I'd really want to give an award to would be to that lady trying her hardest on TV at the moment...YukikoYuusaku: Ah, well, it's in the works...Goood...I almost sprained my ankle in the secret boots and this voice-changer on my throat tickles so much...I've had enough already...Yuusaku: You should be grateful to your mother...After helping me with my disguise she got straight on the plane and went to act as me at the Macademy Awards Ceremony...Conan: Yeah, she's pretty good at doing disguises of those close to her...Conan: Come to think of it, that Haibara disguise she made for me was pretty good...Yuusaku: And? That FBI agent I came all this way to stand in for today...Is he going to come back here again?Conan: Yeah...he will...because there's someone he needs to protect... Amuro: Ah, welco-...- Conan and Amuro stare at each other -Conan: Liar...Amuro: I don't want to be told that by you... 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 On 5/16/2014 at 7:02 AM, Chekhov MacGuffin said: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3041024176 Chinese text spoilers. Will edit and post a translation if I see one. That's only speculation (i.e fanmade), it's not real. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chekhov MacGuffin 1089 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 On 5/16/2014 at 8:32 AM, The Black Demon said: That's only speculation (i.e fanmade), it's not real.6-7 pages are out now btw. Translation is incoming from Zenthisoror Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 On 5/16/2014 at 7:02 AM, Chekhov MacGuffin said: https://i.imgur.com/lX8e5L5.jpg http://im69.gulfup.com/GCgKVg.jpg http://im84.gulfup.com/sgijWn.jpg http://im89.gulfup.com/0XT4Z2.jpg http://www.beika-street.net/index.php?topic=2674.msg113491#new The second link is also not a real spoiler Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balthazar Manfredie 226 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 Reveal hidden contents Dramatic ending. Is Amuro staying at Poirot now because of Conan. Also the BO should run a background check cause everyone seems to infiltrate it 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 897 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3046731892 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
User 4869 100 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 Rage incoming, brace for impact. Well, if it is shocking it wouldn't be so bad. But the community try and succeed in uncover every secret. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 A clarification about the... Reveal hidden contents Date thing, the file only mentions a certain "he" that Akai feels sorry about (you can read Zenthi's translation), who can be anyone and doesn't even need to have anything to do with the FBI. All of the things with Date are from the Chinese link above that I've already mentioned to be a fan thing. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glass Heart 34 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 So... that's just it ? What a disappointing case ! That's really the worst Gosho Aoyama could have done for the grand finale ! Reveal hidden contents I thought he would have at least made a real mystery story. But Yukiko playing Yusaku at the Academy Award ? What kind of a answer is that ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 Reveal hidden contents I wonder why Amuro still returned to Poirot. Didn't he get what he wanted? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
User 4869 100 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 Reveal hidden contents Amuro and Akai switch between right and left hand to carry their phone, Hillarious. We won't know their handedness anymore if we stick with the phone-hands. And I would like to remind you guys that Amuro knows about Date's death just recently, not when Akai was in BO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glass Heart 34 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 Honestly, this case is easily one of the worst I've remembered of the manga. Reveal hidden contents The inconsistencies of the handedness. The truth of "Subaru" which is the most shameful answer Gosho Aoyama could have possibly thought of. And the overall impact of the case and its consequences which are incredibly anticlimactic. This confrontation doesn't hold its promises at all ! For a case which was supposed to bring us some answers and be a major case in the whole arc, things were really poorly conceived. Very disappointed ! I really thought that Gosho Aoyama would do a way better job than this (like he did with the confrontation in red and black which was a masterpiece) ! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 16, 2014 On 5/16/2014 at 1:36 PM, Glass Heart said: Honestly, this case is easily one of the worst I've remembered of the manga. Reveal hidden contents The inconsistencies of the handedness. The truth of "Subaru" which is the most shameful answer Gosho Aoyama could have possibly thought of. And the overall impact of the case and its consequences which are incredibly anticlimactic. This confrontation doesn't hold its promises at all ! For a case which was supposed to bring us some answers and be a major case in the whole arc, things were really poorly conceived. Very disappointed ! I really thought that Gosho Aoyama would do a way better job than this (like he did with the confrontation in red and black which was a masterpiece) ! Can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually thought Mystery Train was better. I don't really care about the revelations regarding Amuro and whatnot, but the whole case is pretty anti-climatic in general. And of course, Reveal hidden contents The overusing of disguises and voice-changers once again killed it. Yukiko's and especially Yusaku's potentials are wasted and their roles in this series are extremely random and awkward. Even though I saw the disguises coming, the way they're fit into the case, as well as removed from it, are really forced. The case also lacks an overall complex setting. Everything happened rapidly but also ended rapidly. Nothing actually changed. Everything is now back to status quo. I seriously hope that since we haven't reached 900 yet, this is only the beginning of something bigger, but that doesn't seem likely. While I can't deny that there're maybe some sort of twists regarding Amuro's actual agenda/allegiance/whatever (Like was he born inside the Org and sent to infiltrate the Secret Police? If no, why was he close to Elena?), but speaking of this case alone, it is sort of disastrous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
