75aichan 49 Report post Posted May 5, 2014 I'm just tired to make theories,I'll wait patiently for Gosho to reveal everything.I'm not saying you're right or wrong...But I do admire you for putting so much effort to explain how subaru could be two persons in deguises. Concerning amuro's flashback it was clear it was Elena,she looks exactly like the woman we saw in volume 42,and since Amuro said he met Ai's family...Gosho didn't exactly reveal anything about her,he just said he will explain later why Elena appears in Amuro's flashback. As for the mystery girl,I personally think it's the middle brother.Conan guessed it's a girl but he could be wrong (just like he was with Sera).Also the girl seems to be very smart,and looks a bit sick.It could fit with what Sera said,since for her Akai is the strong brother ,and the middle bro is the smart one. Finally her hair color is different from Sera and Akai,that also fit with what Sera said,about the middle bro who doesn't ressembles Akai and Sera.But I think Chekhov already listed all the possibilities concerning that little girl.^^ Just a side note,I think you should read Gosho's interviews,because he sometimes give important clues concerning the plot(for example he revealed that Amuro/akai rivalry isn't about Akemi...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glass Heart 34 Report post Posted May 5, 2014 Quote Concerning amuro's flashback it was clear it was Elena,she looks exactly like the woman we saw in volume 42,and since Amuro said he met Ai's family...Gosho didn't exactly reveal anything about her,he just said he will explain later why Elena appears in Amuro's flashback. I'll check it out. But on the image I saw, her hairs were dark brown and had a different form from Amuro's "mother" (who appeared to be blond), so I thought it wasn't the same person. Quote As for the mystery girl,I personally think it's the middle brother.Conan guessed it's a girl but he could be wrong (just like he was with Sera).Also the girl seems to be very smart,and looks a bit sick.It could fit with what Sera said,since for her Akai is the strong brother ,and the middle bro is the smart one. Finally her hair color is different from Sera and Akai,that also fit with what Sera said,about the middle bro who doesn't ressembles Akai and Sera.But I think Chekhov already listed all the possibilities concerning that little girl.^^ The mysterious girl has the same eyes than Masumi ans Shuichi who look a lot like their mother. So it could be her or it could be family from her side (such as an aunt or a cousin). It could also be the middle brother, though that possibility bugs me a little. Masumi insists on the fact that they don't look alike, still they have the same eyes. I have mixed feelings about this possibility. As for the sickness, APTX-4869's victims appear to be quite vulnerable when they're sick so it might not be so out of the ordinary. Also the two appearances of the girl (as a photo on the phone and then in real life) were very close so, with Masumi wanting Conan to see the picture (she might have put it on purpose at the time), it doesn't necessarily mean that she's been sick permanently. But it's just a guess, I can't draw any conclusion on that yet. Maybe the poison is truly destroying her body or anything, I don't know. On the other side, maybe it seems a little foolish, but if I stick with the "there are two Subaru" theory, I think that the middle brother is the right-handed Subaru: -Subaru is around the same age than the friends of the middle brother (27), which may not be so meaningless as it seems. -The right-handed Subaru is shown to have much more affirmed detective skills and curiosity than his left-handed counterpart. In his first appearance, he brings the "Kinichi" lie and the disappearance of Shinichi into a conversation to have more informations about it. And the right-handed Subaru is shown to be acquainted with Yukiko and to have known about Shinichi's disappearance for some time, so surely he knew right from the start that the son of the owner is named Shinichi and that the whole "Kinichi"'s stuff was a lie (Akai would have informed him that his name was Kinichi according to what Ran told him). Strangely, he didn't seem to bother about it until now (but he would have been a different person who didn't really care) and the fact that Subaru pretends he didn't make the link with Shinichi before is in direct contradiction with Conan telling him about Shinichi when he handed over the keys of the house (something the second Subaru couldn't have known). -Another clue is the attitude of Conan. He only started to suspect that Masumi could be Shuichi's sister after he learned about her middle brother. Before that, he was only wondering if he hadn't already met her somewhere before. It may be quite possible that Conan knew Akai had a younger brother and that he didn't suspect Masumi to be their sister because he didn't know that she had two brothers (and they may have never talked to him about having a sister also). As soon as she revealed it, his attitude changed and he asked her directly. But how would he have known about Akai's brother, Shuichi being the secretive type and not disclosing unnecessary informations ? I think that Conan has already met him as the right-handed Subaru and that they're both involved in this deception. Now, it's only mere speculation but the middle brother having high skills of observation and deduction but not being a detective, he could have become a detective fiction writer like Yusaku Kudo. That would explain why Subaru talks like a detective novels writer in the current case, and his interest in the Academy Awards might be because he's also in competition. That would also explain how he got acquaintained with the Kudo. Of course, they could have only met recently through Conan, but the fact that Shinichi and Ran might have already met Masumi a long time ago leads me to think that they could have been acquaintained for longer than that. Of course, as I said, the idea of the middle brother being a detective novels writer is only a guess so far, but this hypothesis might work well with what we know so far. It's also the most evident alternative to a detective as a professional activity for someone with high skills of observation and deduction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chekhov MacGuffin 1089 Report post Posted May 6, 2014 I don't have time to a point by point rebuttal, Glass, but my instinct is that you are reaching too far, trying to make the situation more complicated than the clues suggest it is for the sake of having a complex solution. If you you want me to take a look at a particular point of the theory, I'll do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 896 spoilers: http://www.beika-street.net/index.php?topic=2674.msg113391#msg113391 ...Yay?! 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balthazar Manfredie 226 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 OOOOOO MY GOOOOOD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
75aichan 49 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 Reveal hidden contents I should be happy to see Akai but I'lm still afraid it's a deguise,i don't know what to think about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 896 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3032778809 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balthazar Manfredie 226 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 Reveal hidden contents Has anyone an idea of what they are they saying, Conan and Akai are looking confident. Also what is going to happen now. Akai revealed himself to Camel and Jodie, but if he is spotted by one member of the BO its going to harm Kir. What kind of plan do they have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 On 5/9/2014 at 2:19 PM, Balthazar said: Reveal hidden contents Has anyone an idea of what they are saying, Conan and Akai are looking confident There isn't much to translate about this file, things happen just like what the images show. Reveal hidden contents Okiya removes the mask like Bourbon said (note that it seems to be a normal mask and there's no visible voice-changer), but the latter is not satisfied. Meanwhile, Yusaku gets the award as broadcast on the TV. Bourbon notices that there are hidden cameras inside the house and wonders who's watching, the scene then cuts to Conan. After that, he unravels Okiya's neck to look for a voice-changer but sees nothing. Jodie and Camel are getting in big trouble after the tire began to flatten, but Akai appears to save the day! One of Bourbon's accomplices then calls him and reports about Akai. Jodie asks Akai why he's there, but he only answers that everything has happened according to Conan's plan. No break next week. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glass Heart 34 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 Ok, that's exactly what I was expecting in a way: Gosho Aoyama is definitely playing with the readers' expectations. Nothing is as it appears to be. So now, the point is how this whole thing could work together. My guess right now: Reveal hidden contents Gosho Aoyama is implementing visually the idea that Yusaku Kudo and Subaru Okiya are one and the same on the mind of the reader while showing that the show is live (or almost, given the time of diffusion in foreign countries could happen some minutes later) to make him suspect that some trick is been used here. In following this line of reasoning, I see two possibilities: -Yukiko is impersonating either her husband or Subaru. -Conan is pirating the broadcast of the house with an edited video created through archives (and with him doing the voices) to give the illusion Yusaku Kudo is at the Academy Awards. But it's impossible since Ran confirms the video to be legit and I doubt Conan would be able to pirate the broadcast of the whole town and there would be no point in doing that. If Yukiko posing as one of them is the more likely, I would be disappointed by such an easy trick and my intuition leads me to think that it might be a whole different thing altogether. I may be completely mistaken but I think that Aoyama's real trick is that there is in fact no trick used on this one and that it's a red-herring. Still, Aoyama shows us that Conan is definitely doing someone's voice right now and I think it's likely Subaru's voice. They could have anticipated that Amuro would be suspicious about a voice-changer somewhere so Subaru didn't use one this time, but I think that Conan is still doing Subaru's voice through some kind of micro hidden in him. It's even likely considering how Subaru continues to hold the side of his mask right in front of his face while speaking. He coughs to give the signal that he's ready to mimick the movements on his lips while Conan speaks through the micro. Now, if I go accordingly to my theory about the two Subaru so far, I think that this Subaru is also the right-handed Subaru we saw during Yusaku Kudo's Cold Case and the Belltree Express case. Only at the time, he wore a voice-changer while this time he doesn't use it considering Bourbon would likely be suspicious about it, so Conan has to do the voice through a micro hidden on Subaru. Also, whoever this Subaru is, I surely hope for Shinichi that he didn't dare putting someone closely related to him under this costume. Bourbon is already suspicious enough about Conan's involvement in this whole mess and his relation with the Kudo to come soon to the conclusion that he is in fact Shinichi Kudo. Maybe I'll have a better idea about what's going on once we'll have the translate chapter. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALAKTORN 170 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 Reveal hidden contents I remember reading in one of Chekov’s theories that Yukiko’s disguising skills were the most realistic because she only did females (among other things); well, I guess that line will need to be revised soon… lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nourov 4 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 Reveal hidden contents "The Scarlet Return" ..Finally Akai is back <3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chekhov MacGuffin 1089 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 Reveal hidden contents It bothers me that "Okiya" (obviously Yuusaku at this point) speaks with his hand in front of his face. That was how Conan did Shinichi's voice while Hattori was in disguise during the Vermouth showdown. In this case, maybe there is a tiny microphone, rather than a voice changer in the mask. That would explain why Conan has the bowtie in his planning room. Conan's plan bothers me though. Right now he seems to be going for "dupe Amuro into thinking Conan wasn't involved at all and his idea was wrong". It's good for Conan because it gets him somewhat out of the line of fire (minus all those suspicious secret cameras Amuro noticed), but this doesn't account for Kir. I guess they are going to give up on her infiltration mission unless they have a really good way to explain to the rest of the BO how "Akai" could have been shot for the camera and Kir was duped. Now that Akai's face is out to Amuro's friends, I'd be worried that that info will get to the rest of the BO. Also, I'm worried about Vermouth and what she might be up to right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
75aichan 49 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 On 5/9/2014 at 8:21 PM, Chekhov MacGuffin said: Reveal hidden contents It bothers me that "Okiya" (obviously Yuusaku at this point) speaks with his hand in front of his face. That was how Conan did Shinichi's voice while Hattori was in disguise during the Vermouth showdown. In this case, maybe there is a tiny microphone, rather than a voice changer in the mask. That would explain why Conan has the bowtie in his planning room. Conan's plan bothers me though. Right now he seems to be going for "dupe Amuro into thinking Conan wasn't involved at all and his idea was wrong". It's good for Conan because it gets him somewhat out of the line of fire (minus all those suspicious secret cameras Amuro noticed), but this doesn't account for Kir. I guess they are going to give up on her infiltration mission unless they have a really good way to explain to the rest of the BO how "Akai" could have been shot for the camera and Kir was duped. Now that Akai's face is out to Amuro's friends, I'd be worried that that info will get to the rest of the BO. Also, I'm worried about Vermouth and what she might be up to right now. Reveal hidden contents yeah I agree with you about Conan's plan...Maybe it's a good way for Akai to go back to his Okiya deguise,but it's putting Kir in danger,she can't stay in the BO anymore if they are aware that Akai is alive...I guess they have a plan for her to escape.also I wonder what Amuro will do...I expected him to guess that this Okiya was fake... now I wonder if he'll keep chasing Akai,using for example his sister as a bait,or he may do something unexpected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balthazar Manfredie 226 Report post Posted May 9, 2014 Reveal hidden contents After all this drama ends, are we in for the BOSS arc and the ending of the Conan... finally Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detective Max17 1 Report post Posted May 10, 2014 Reveal hidden contents I think the Okiya Subaru with Amuro is Kaito Kid in disguise or someone else. Akai appeared in the car with Camel and Jodie. We know three living people that are good with disguises.1. Kaito Kid2. Vermouth3. Yukiko KudoI think it's Kaito personally because of the Mystery Train Case, where Conan saw through Kaito and his accomplice's disguises. He asked Kaito to disguise as Shiho Miyano and I thought why couldn't Conan just do this again, except asking Kaito to disguise as Okiya Subaru this time. He has the perfect skills to pull off any disguise, along with voice mimicry.Vermouth is good at disguises, along with voice mimicry. Her skills are on par with Kaito Kid, but I highly doubt that Vermouth would do any favors like fooling her teammate Amuro for Conan just like that. She wouldn't help out those that are working against her team so willingly.Then there's Yukiko Kudo. Her disguising skills are great, but it's known that she prefers simple female disguises. With this information, it makes me think, what if she used her skills to disguise someone else as Okiya. If she disguised Akai as Okiya couldn't she just as easily disguise another person? It can't be Conan because he was at a desktop making a call and besides he needs Shiho/ Ai's prototype antidote to become Shinichi. If he tried to disguise as Okiya in his current state, he'd come up a little short.This is my deduction to file 894-XXX. I seen the raw version, the English version isn't out yet. I just looked at the pictures and started thinking and came up with this deduction. If you think there's something wrong with my deduction please let me know and I'd be willing to rethink it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Demon 466 Report post Posted May 10, 2014 Please remember to use spoiler boxes everyone! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nourov 4 Report post Posted May 10, 2014 On 5/10/2014 at 3:08 AM, Detective Max17 said: Reveal hidden contents I think the Okiya Subaru with Amuro is Kaito Kid in disguise or someone else. Akai appeared in the car with Camel and Jodie. We know three living people that are good with disguises. 1. Kaito Kid 2. Vermouth 3. Yukiko Kudo I think it's Kaito personally because of the Mystery Train Case, where Conan saw through Kaito and his accomplice's disguises. He asked Kaito to disguise as Shiho Miyano and I thought why couldn't Conan just do this again, except asking Kaito to disguise as Okiya Subaru this time. He has the perfect skills to pull off any disguise, along with voice mimicry. Vermouth is good at disguises, along with voice mimicry. Her skills are on par with Kaito Kid, but I highly doubt that Vermouth would do any favors like fooling her teammate Amuro for Conan just like that. She wouldn't help out those that are working against her team so willingly. Then there's Yukiko Kudo. Her disguising skills are great, but it's known that she prefers simple female disguises. With this information, it makes me think, what if she used her skills to disguise someone else as Okiya. If she disguised Akai as Okiya couldn't she just as easily disguise another person? It can't be Conan because he was at a desktop making a call and besides he needs Shiho/ Ai's prototype antidote to become Shinichi. If he tried to disguise as Okiya in his current state, he'd come up a little short. This is my deduction to file 894-XXX. I seen the raw version, the English version isn't out yet. I just looked at the pictures and started thinking and came up with this deduction. If you think there's something wrong with my deduction please let me know and I'd be willing to rethink it. Reveal hidden contents Gosho said that no more kaito kid against the BO again! So we only have Yukiko and Vermouth in this arc. And as you said Vermouth wouldn't fooling Amuro for Conan when she is too know that Akai is alive. **but don't forget that she will be in trouble if Amuro knew about Shinichi and APTX 4869** But anyway the must important thing is to save Kudu family! The black org now is have doubts on them which mean they're not save anymore.. And yes, Kir is going to die too because of Akai appearance! ....Really what is Conan planning to do right now :/ 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
User 4869 100 Report post Posted May 10, 2014 Semi-crosspost from DCTP For people who never visit cboxTranslation of the whole file made by imbalance01 and grid.http://hastebin.com/raw/awopoyoyig My head hurt. I understand now the complains that disguise make deduction impossible. Whoops. another crosspost. Now deal with handedness of Akai suspects http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12248&p=814787#p814787 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glass Heart 34 Report post Posted May 10, 2014 This one is still a mystery to me: why is everyone only dealing with Subaru's handedness now, in the current case ? Reveal hidden contents I think the fact that he was already right-handed in some cases in the past (Yusaku Kudo's Cold Case and the Belltree Express case) might also have its importance. I mean, it's not like mere speculation or anything. It was directly shown black on white (or anyway we translate the expression "noir sur blanc" in english) in the manga. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chekhov MacGuffin 1089 Report post Posted May 10, 2014 On 5/10/2014 at 4:03 PM, Glass Heart said: This one is still a mystery to me: why is everyone only dealing with Subaru's handedness now, in the current case ? Reveal hidden contents I think the fact that he was already right-handed in some cases in the past (Yusaku Kudo's Cold Case and the Belltree Express case) might also have its importance. I mean, it's not like mere speculation or anything. It was directly shown black on white (or anyway we translate the expression "noir sur blanc" in english) in the manga. To be fair, I don't think a lot of people think the Okiya before Scarlet Showdown was Shuuichi only part of the time as you propose. I've seen you and maybe one other person try to run with the idea, and right now, there is no one at DCTP talking about it. Most of the few people who noticed any right-handed action from Okiya prior to now chalked it up to sometimes characters use their off hand, or trying to fool Sera while she is around. There is interest about handedness in this case because many people think Okiya is someone else in disguise, which gives Akai the freedom to move. That's why it is coming up again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glass Heart 34 Report post Posted May 10, 2014 Quote To be fair, I don't a lot of people think the Okiya before Scarlet Showdown was Shuuichi only part of the time as you propose. I've seen you and maybe one other person try to run with the idea, and right now, there is no one at DCTP talking about it. Most of the few people who noticed any right-handed action from Okiya prior to now chalked it up to sometimes characters use their off hand, or trying to fool Sera while she is around. I wonder. I don't think Gosho Aoyama would do such a thing without a reason, especially since, in these two cases, Subaru was seen as right-handed all the time, not just sometimes. I could agree that he tried to fool Masumi if that only occured in that instance, but it preceded directly the Belltree Express case where he was also right-handed in front of Yukiko Kudo and Ai Haibara. And that's where it doesn't fit: Subaru would have no reason to fake his righthandedness in front of Yukiko who is his accomplice and in front of Haibara whom he tried to convince that he was Shuichi Akai. There is also the matter of the disguise that Yukiko created: we've seen nothing about it and Subaru already had his disguise so he didn't need her (that was also part of the reason why I thought that Subaru was also another person than Akai before the current case brought that matter again). And if that Subaru was indeed another person, he surely couldn't have been Yusaku Kudo or even Yukiko considering that he discovered Conan's secret during the right-handed Subaru's first appearance. I can't think of these things having no importance, especially with this kind of resolution. Gosho Aoyama seems to know what he is doing. I may be wrong by thinking that Subaru's different main hand indicates that he is in fact two people (though it seems a logical conclusion to me in this kind of situation), but at least there should be some plausible explanation about it. Otherwise, the author wouldn't have done it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akazora 293 Report post Posted May 10, 2014 Reveal hidden contents Woah, how did Akai get in the car? Did he hide in the trunk and come in through that small door that connects the backseats and said trunk that some cars have? Can a person even fit in those? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
User 4869 100 Report post Posted May 11, 2014 I dont think i can convince you with this, Glass Heart. But I believes Gosho is not that consistent with handedness or anything. In mere 2-3 file I goes over. I already uncover a mistake (Amuro look over his right, then left shoulder). And I remember about Sonoko magic dress in the latest case with Makoto. I think Gosho think "This time I will give clues that Okiya is left handed, and once my fans should get the idea I can drop my concentration to deal with something else" Also, one of the reason for off-handedness is convenience. Manga has to put as much detail in one panel as possible, which limit perfectness of logic. BTW, English file is released Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chekhov MacGuffin 1089 Report post Posted May 11, 2014 The cell notification that Yuusaku won is definitely important to something. I am not convinced Ran and Kogoro's timeline is happening at the same time as what we are seeing at the Kudo house. Maybe some clock checking could confirm that. I have a feeling Okiya is using a mike, just like Hattori in the Vermouth arc. The actions with the hand in front of the mouth and coughing are too similar. Someone is speaking for Okiya, and Okiya is blocking his mouth to keep Amuro from noticing this. The face mask is a distraction to keep Amuro from noticing that Okiya's voice is being projected and he is not saying the words. At the same time Yuusaku might be relaying what to say to whoever is disguising as Yuusaku (Yukiko?) in America. That would explain the amount of equipment in Conan's hideyhole. He has to coordinate a chain of voices, plus keep an eye on the FBI... If Shuuichi is asking for Camel to keep the speed and direction steady, it might be to set up for some quick sniping at the chasing cars rather than a jump like I first thought. I want to know why Shuuichi thought Amuro would go after the FBI agents (and how both he and Amuro knew they would go driving) instead of someone like Sera. Also, I am a bit concerned that Amuro's friends aren't wearing any black. There is no reason that lower level agents are bound to wear black, but it's just a detail that concerns me. (And those guys in front of the Kudo house are definitely news/paparazzi. Look at their vans.) I am not sure about where Conan is. It looks like a small space. Chapter 900 might be reserved for the moment that Sera/Ai meets Akai. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
