Boss of The Black Organization?

[ThatLee4 10]

You might like this thread: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/2532-vodkalamest-of-the-black/?p=199009

Yeah thanks enjoyed that. Very interesting. Will comment later

[Potato 0]

 i have a theory. Remember when Conan, Ai and Agasa went to find information about Ai's parents? The time when they found audiotape Ai's sister had hidden in the toilet?

  That house was was owned by Atsushi Miyano, Ai's father! And there was still a tenant there. So either way Atsushi is alive or one of the three people in the house is part of the organisation. If we think it is one of those three, i think we can forget Tetsuo Imai because he was arrestet. So i think it's either Isamu Natsuhori or Ukihito Zaitsu.  And Miyano's minus Ai has been there before, why would they go there if they are renting the house to someone. Because the boss is in there!

 

Okay... That was my theory. It's based on a feeling so i don't know if it could be possible, but it think it is.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

i have a theory. Remember when Conan, Ai and Agasa went to find information about Ai's parents? The time when they found audiotape Ai's sister had hidden in the toilet?

  That house was was owned by Atsushi Miyano, Ai's father! And there was still a tenant there. So either way Atsushi is alive or one of the three people in the house is part of the organisation. If we think it is one of those three, i think we can forget Tetsuo Imai because he was arrestet. So i think it's either Isamu Natsuhori or Ukihito Zaitsu.  And Miyano's minus Ai has been there before, why would they go there if they are renting the house to someone. Because the boss is in there!

 

Okay... That was my theory. It's based on a feeling so i don't know if it could be possible, but it think it is.

I don't see how Souhei Dejima being a tenant in the house means Atsushi is alive or that one of the people there is Black Organization related. Souhei was Atsushi's childhood friend, and Atsushi left Souhei in charge of his father's house when he moved out thirty years ago to go somewhere for his research (probably to the Black Organization). That doesn't mean Souhei is a Black Organization member, especially since he knew Atsushi before the scientist became involved with the Black Organization.

In fact, the evidence seems to be against any of the people in the house being involved in the Syndicate; the Black Organization sent a car to spy on the Miyanos when they visited and then had someone break in to plant bugs and remove them after Akemi visited recently. If someone in the house was a member of the Black Organization, then that person could have spied instead of having the Black Organization send a car and a burglar.

Souhei and his assistants probably just kept living in the house after Atsushi presumably went out of contact when he died/disappeared 18 or so years ago. As long as they paid the bills, who would evict them? We don't know if the Miyanos had any relatives who might have wanted the house or if anyone outside the Crow Crops even knew that Atsushi died.

[Retro 1]

No the boss has been shown recently in the manga and at the beginning. And it's not Agasa and the person that is the boss will shock Haibara the most.

These facts are confirmed by Gosho himself in an interview in japan.

So we can only say it's Haibaras Grandfather.

For more info read my article of my theory for this:

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/4898-ai-haibaras-grandfather-is-anokata-or-the-boss-of-bo/

[ALAKTORN 170]

No the boss has been shown recently in the manga and at the beginning.

There were conflicting reports about that part, it’s not known what Gosho said precisely.

[HunterxHunterProblem 0]

Agasa 

[detectiveRJB 15]

Agasa 

No Way!Gosho say "Agasa not Anokata!"

[Written 0]

I thought of a little word play here.

Men in Black.

Mannin Burakku.

Mannin.

Man'in.

Furuhausu.

Full House.

...

Toichi Kuroba.

 

 

Just came into my mind.

 

[ccrogers15 5]

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it was Ran's mother. 
There is something about her that gives off a creepy vibe.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if the leader is a major character who has led Shinichi on. Perhaps Agasa?

It would be perfect and a perfect plot twist. Agasa being the boss. That way, it would be a major shock and in series terms, it would benefit the BO, since the boss could keep an eye on Shinichi and Haibara. 

[xxelement 1]

I think it's Yoko because

 

1. Detective Conan wasn't originally suppose to be long. So the possibility of the boss appearing early is high.

2. Vermouth (who is actress Sharon Vineyard) is the boss's favorite and Yoko is also an actress.

[ccrogers15 5]

I think it's Yoko because

 

1. Detective Conan wasn't originally suppose to be long. So the possibility of the boss appearing early is high.

 

 

This is true. I remember that, so technically, the BO boss should be someone from at least the first season. 

I remember reading that initially the anime was supposed to last a few seasons but it blew up with so much fanfare that it made it to today.

[ChaosBeing 1]

Here's an idea that doesn't seem to have been proposed before: Genji Kojima. (Genta's father.)

 

Sure, take a second to laugh if you'd like, but he fits.

 

• He owns a liquor store/bar. (I seem to remember seeing both, so one is likely a case of bad subs.)
• If his age has been affected like Vermouth's has, it could explain why he speaks in an old dialect.
• I don't know when his name was first mentioned - though IIRC it was somewhat earlier on - yet he didn't appear until episode 551/chapter 658.  (Wiki link)

 

I'm getting ready to rewatch the case he appears in now, just to see if I can pick up on anything else. Naturally in all likelyhood it isn't him, but I wasn't going to let it be overlooked.

 

Edit:

A few things did jump out at me after watching it again, some that would seem to support the theory and others that would seem to oppose it.

 

For:

• He purposefully changes the way he speaks, reveiling his normal speech to be a facade when he gets in a fight with the culprit.
• He wears glasses and squints his eyes during the case, despite not usually wearing glasses. (Keep in mind that both Shinichi and Akai turned to glasses when they needed to hide their identities, so this could be a clue by Gosho or simply something he likes to use to complete a dsguise.)

 

Maybes:

• He seemed to be proficient in some sort of martial art, as he was able to knock the culprit to the floor in an instant and pin him down. However, it was a surprise attack, so that may be meaningless.
• Genta says his dad is combative, honest, and hates dishonorable things, and the idea that his dad is a good person is really pushed throughout the whole episode, almost so much to make me think the opposite.
• Add to that the extreme aggressiveness and intimidation of the scene where he picks a fight with the culprit, and the above seems even more suspicious.
• His favorite song is apparently Kuroda Bushi. I have no idea what this would translate to, and it's likely meaningless, but the fact that his favorite song was included when the only clue we have as to the Boss' identity is a song struck me as odd. (And at the same time, for all I know Nanatsu no ko and Kuroda Bushi could share the same notes, the same way Twinkle Twinkle Little Star is also the Alphabet Song and Bah Bah Black Sheep.)
• He wasn't interested in winning the sizable cash prize, but instead in the boar scroll. The scroll was worth more than the cash prize, but the reasons he gave for wanting the scroll were that he simply liked boars, and that the artist's name sounded like "thank you". It's kind of hard to believe that that alone could make the scroll seem more valuable to him than the cash prize, assuming he didn't know the value of the scroll.
• There was also a bit of a story/legend behind the scroll, which was of a set of three. Supposedly, having all three scrolls would gaurantee good fortune and success. While even I think this is unlikely to be a story that'd catch the Org.'s eye, they also seemed interested in the tale of the immortality arrow.

 

Against:

• All of the talk of Genta's dad being honest and honorable could just as easily be true as not, making him a poor boss candidate.
• While only briefly, Haibara (along with the rest of the Detective Boys, Conan and Hakase) does walk with him, even if she does stay a few paces back as per usual. Her Black Org. sense never kicks in, and he doesn't seem to recognize her. (And she isn't dead, so...)
• While he was masking his typical way of speaking and wearing glasses that forced him to squint, he was still planning on going on T.V., which would seem like something that an overly cautious person wouldn't do.

 

Well, that's all I could gather at least. Anyone have anything else to add?

[Van Keiji 0]

Alright.
Let's get this show on the road.

Personally, I just find the Agasa theory to be outrageous. But, even with all of the evidence against it, and my personal bias, we need to take into consideration the fact that there are many good advantage points the boss would have as Agasa.

1. A good watch over Shinichi and Shiho.

2. Relations in high places. Sure, he may not be rich, but his connection network is wealthed by some higher ups.

3. Without revealing who he is, he can lead Shinichi in the wrong direction, and, if necessary, right to one of the org's people since Shinichi places a lot of trust in him.

4. One last point is that, even though she betrayed the organization, Shiho is still, in a way, working on APTX 4869. He may want her alive so as to see where she can get with the drug. Then he can take her out as easily as Shinichi.

 

Now, for those Mouri-arty theories. I think that they are extremely interesting. The name is mentioned at the very beginning, but, if it's one of Kogoro's family members, they haven't been seen, or even fully named as far as I can tell. We can also take Vermouth's little spout on Mouri not being as innocent as he seems into consideration. But, I think she's was just thinking about Conan/Shinichi staying at the agency at that point. But it's also hard to believe that Gosho would do something so painstakingly obvious. It is just too easy of a pun to notice, and if the name of the organization would give away who is the leader AND the organization has to have power, then we would need to assume that it is named with Mouri and people would know about it. Kogoro being related to some powerful organization would be hard to hide, especially since Kogoro is quite a braggart himself.

 

I will not laugh at the Genta's father theory. It is quite well thought out and would certainly surprise Shiho. The guy even runs a liquor store. It shouldn't be shoved aside. It would also be cool if we could get some good information on the rest of the DB's families.

 

Those were just some of my favorite view points and a little of my own thoughts.

 

BTW, I don't think many people would be surprised if Eri was Anokata... She has that air to her that says "I can control you".

 

I do think the Yoko theory was pretty good as well. She appears a lot and we do not know everything she does off screen.

[moroboshi dai 11]

anything for or against jinpei matsuda?? he does appear as flashback and wear black .Maybe he faked his death 

[ALAKTORN 170]

Chekhov, maybe you should edit the first post to include the interview that says it’s not Yūsaku?

[ALAKTORN 170]

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/523-boss-of-the-black-organization/page-22#entry54671

Chekhov, the link under Gin leads to the wrong place. -fixed

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/523-boss-of-the-black-organization/page-22#entry54670

The link at the top here is also wrong. -fixed

Lots of old links to the DCTP forum are actually wrong.

Also, can I just say again that I really think “今までにフルネームで登場している人です” (2012/06/30) means that Anokata has appeared in flesh and bones, with his full name? I feel like I keep saying this, but nobody else seems to believe it. I think I’ll ask my teacher about it if I can find the proper words.

Edit: now that I think again, 登場している doesn’t even mean “has appeared”, but “is appearing”, meaning that he might pop up every now and then… this thing is driving me nuts. I’ll ask my teacher later…

[ALAKTORN 170]

Also, can I just say again that I really think “今までにフルネームで登場している人です” (2012/06/30) means that Anokata has appeared in flesh and bones, with his full name? I feel like I keep saying this, but nobody else seems to believe it. I think I’ll ask my teacher about it if I can find the proper words.

Edit: now that I think again, 登場している doesn’t even mean “has appeared”, but “is appearing”, meaning that he might pop up every now and then… this thing is driving me nuts. I’ll ask my teacher later…

OK, so…

I sent an SMS asking her, and she phoned me back. Basically, she said that “Hearing it, I feel like it’s a person that appears more than once, and continues appearing”, but when I brought up the point of it being only the name appearing she said “That’s true, you can’t know”. So, basically… ambiguity. But the fact that he’s been appearing more than once still holds true. And isn’t it weird for a name to be recurring and nobody taking notice of it? I guess I’d like to hear Checkhov’s opinion on this. Wouldn’t it be weird to have a recurring name of someone who hasn’t appeared in person? Do we have anything like that? Haibara’s parents, maybe? Also, could someone get Fujiwara’s opinion.

I was about to write something more, but I’ve forgotten. This thing is driving me literally nuts, now I’m starting to think that している doesn’t necessarily mean “appeared more than once”, even though my teacher said that. Ambiguity, ambiguity, ambiguity. I’ll try asking some more Japanese people if I can find them.

Edit: I’m overthinking this way too much. In the end I don’t think Aoyama’s phrase means anything particular. Could’ve appeared once, twice, more, name only or flesh and bones.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

OK, so…

I sent an SMS asking her, and she phoned me back. Basically, she said that “Hearing it, I feel like it’s a person that appears more than once, and continues appearing”, but when I brought up the point of it being only the name appearing she said “That’s true, you can’t know”. So, basically… ambiguity. But the fact that he’s been appearing more than once still holds true. And isn’t it weird for a name to be recurring and nobody taking notice of it? I guess I’d like to hear Checkhov’s opinion on this. Wouldn’t it be weird to have a recurring name of someone who hasn’t appeared in person? Do we have anything like that? Haibara’s parents, maybe? Also, could someone get Fujiwara’s opinion.

I was about to write something more, but I’ve forgotten. This thing is driving me literally nuts, now I’m starting to think that している doesn’t necessarily mean “appeared more than once”, even though my teacher said that. Ambiguity, ambiguity, ambiguity. I’ll try asking some more Japanese people if I can find them.

Edit: I’m overthinking this way too much. In the end I don’t think Aoyama’s phrase means anything particular. Could’ve appeared once, twice, more, name only or flesh and bones.

Well there is a name that appears more than once, but with no person to attach it to. The infamous Ooguro/Daikoku Rentarou (大黒 連太郎) which appears in Hattori's guestbook in the mermaid case (and be read as "Big Black Seventh Son")  is the same name that appears on a building (Daiko Building ("Cocktail" Bar) (File 116) 大黒ビル (バー「カクテル」)) where Tequila was meeting with Hideaki Nakajima.

Of course though we always have family names which reoccur.

[goshoboys 0]

One thing that would be very hard for me to accept is that someone who I think of as a friend (or close to Conan/Shinichi in the series), will turn out to be Anokata.

 

That will be a very big plot twist though.

[Akechi 5563 1]

I looked at some posts in this thread and decided to look at the Boss of the Org. in a different angle.

 

How does the Boss's identity work ? i mean in an interview with Gosho, it was said that if the organisation's name is known, then the Boss's identity can be deduced, but can that really work?  Even if you were given the name of the Org.  do you assume that he's the president of that particular firm, or is it a pun on the Japanese characters of the Organization's name?

 

With the characters so far, its pretty hard to correlate their name with a corresponding organization unless the boss has a nickname which is later revealed in the story. 

[Zeaos 3]

Later Edit: Other people have attempted to look at the same guestbook and do not agree on the name, so take the theory with a grain of salt please. See this thread: http://www.japanisch-netzwerk.de/Thread-Übersetzung--8840?usg=ALkJrhjsW7HnyTyaHB3a2lFfEt6d7paacg

Since the German speakers are having a field day with this, here is some suspicious name trivia for you all. So Zenthisoror and HADAA did a translation of one of the names from Heiji's guestbook in the mermaid case.

8 Aug 2012, 10:17

vinyard: can someone pls translate the names in the guestbook ?

8 Aug 2012, 12:03

Zenthisoror: Hmm...well on the page Conan's looking at, the names are: Sakanazuka Saburo, Miyano Shiho And the clearest name on Hattori's page looks like Ooguro (or Daikoku) Kentaro, although it could be Oozato Kentaro.

8 Aug 2012, 12:05

Zenthisoror: If it was Ooguro (or Daikoku) Kentaro, maybe we could put him on the list of suspects for the head of the BO - the symbols for the surname, after all, mean Big Black.

8 Aug 2012, 12:05

Zenthisoror: But, mustn't jump to conclusions.

8 Aug 2012, 13:13

HADAA: Zen, it's actually Ooguro (or Daikoku) -R-entarou（大黒連太郎）, and the name Ooguro/Daikoku did appear as the building's name in that Tequila's case (The "Daiko" building which is an alternate pronunciation for the same kanji)

8 Aug 2012, 13:20

HADAA: Tidbit: Number 49 is Miyano Shiho and Number 50 looks suspiciously like 土井塔 (Doitou, and with 克樹 Kakki it would become the alias used by Kid once), but at this point I think Gosho prolly simply ran out of names or just inserted random easter eggs, like we did with our movie releases

So if we play the parse-the-kanji game for Ooguro/Daikoku Rentarou (大黒 連太郎)

大 【おお】 (pref) big; large

黒 【くろ】 (n) black

連 【むらじ】 (n) (arch) Muraji (hereditary title; orig. one of the two highest such titles, later demoted to seventh highest of eight)

太郎 【たろう】- Son. By itself it usally means eldest son, but when prefixed you get other meanings like Kintaro ("Golden Boy"), or Momotaro (Peach Boy)

Big Black Seventh Child?

Note: Gosho is fond of odd pronunciations:

大黒 can be Ooguro (Common pronunciation) or Daikoku (god of wealth and fortune, also used as building name in earlier case)

Edit for posterity: The disaster started here in German, and then moved to here...

That's one a hell of hypothesis, seriously plausibly the best I have seen/heard, although there is no evidence, but how would that shock/surprise Haibra?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

That's one a hell of hypothesis, seriously plausibly the best I have seen/heard, although there is no evidence, but how would that shock/surprise Haibra?

 

Dunno. Maybe the boss would shock Haibara because they have some weird condition. If the boss was stuck in the body of a child because of some accident, that would be pretty surprising.

[ALAKTORN 170]

Dunno. Maybe the boss would shock Haibara because they have some weird condition. If the boss was stuck in the body of a child because of some accident, that would be pretty surprising.

In that case, wouldn’t it be for everybody, though? Aoyama specifically saying Haibara would be surprised makes me think others wouldn’t be, don’t you think so?

[User 4869 100]

How specific actually? There're once a debate if the word mean "Even Haibara will be surprise" or not. Do we have the source interview now? And how serious Gosho thought about his wording.

[ALAKTORN 170]

It’s probably in the Translating Interviews thread, but I don’t have time to search for it at the moment.