Boss of The Black Organization?

[detectiveRJB 15]

On 3/3/2017 at 0:47 AM, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

Spoiler

 

Just a warning, this post might be a little long.

 

First, a response to detectiveRJB.

We don't know that for sure. All we know is that the Organization as a whole doesn't know Conan's identity. It is entirely possible that Anokata does know and has decided not to tell all of his/her subordinates.

As for who Anokata is, I came up with an interesting theory a while back that addresses the identities of both Anokata and Rum. I am going to copy and edit my post from the discussion about rum on the manga forum to explain my theory. If anyone is curious about the Rum side of the theory, then feel free to go check out that post (I believe it was October 27th or 28th of last year).

First, let me explain where the idea came from. It was the combination of a few things, actually. The first thing that started the genesis of this theory was how people made references back to the development of the Bourbon arc; specifically, the parallels to Gundam. The next thing that helped my mind develop this idea was the repeated mention of the appearance of Lum and whether it was what Aoyama-sensei was referring to with the Animal Crossing hint that Rum had appeared. The final element that spawned this theory was a single mention of the fake name Akai used while undercover with the Organization, Moroboshi Dai.

 

The idea? Well, if analyzing Gundam turned up significant clues pointing towards Bourbon, maybe analyzing another anime could point us toward Rum. What anime? Urusei Yatsura!

 

A quick rundown for anyone not familiar with UY. Basically, Moroboshi Ataru was a normal guy who was going out with a girl named Shinobu until aliens showed up and he was chosen at random to be the Earth's champion in a game (basically tag) that would decide the fate of the world. His opponent was Lum, daughter of the alien leader. He won the game, and Lum became obsessively infatuated with him, leading to various hilarity and crazy situations, as well as the first and funniest anime love triangle I ever saw.

 

Now, the Black Organization is clearly the parallel to the the alien invaders in this theory. So how do we figure out who represents the leader? By analyzing the connection to other characters. The leader is the father of Lum, so Anokata (in my theory) is one of the parents of Rum. To figure out Rum's identity, we need to dig deeper. Lum is in love with Moroboshi Ataru. Moroboshi...as in Moroboshi Dai, also known as Akai Shuichi. So, if we accept Akai as Ataru, then we need to look at his love interests to figure out who Rum/Lum is. We know that, before going undercover with the Organization, Akai was involved with Jodie Starling, but with the Organization as the analog for the aliens, that would make Jodie-sensei a parallel to Shinobu (Ataru's girlfriend before he became involved with the aliens. Lum/Rum would be a love interest within the Organization/aliens, meaning Miyano Akemi (for the full explanation of the Akemi=Rum theory, please see the aforementioned post in the manga forum on the discussion about Rum, I will briefly cover some key points here as they align with this theory, but will mostly be addressing the idea of one of the Miyano parents as Anokata). 

 

"But wait! The Miyanos are dead!" you say?
All we know for sure about the Miyano parents is that they were researching a mysterious drug for the Organization. The true purpose of this drug is unknown to every person we've heard discuss it, including Shiho, who continued the research after her parents were (supposedly) killed in a fire in their lab. Now, how could the true purpose of this drug remained secret for so long? Clearly the Organization has no qualms about killing, so i suspect that they probably subscribe to the old say, "three can keep a secret if two of them are dead," but that only explains so much. Isn't it easier to keep a secret by simply not telling anyone? That's the kind Of person I think Anokata is. Clearly, in order to run such an extensive crime syndicate as the Black Organization, you have to be highly intelligent, like a scientist perhaps. Someone with that level of intelligence would have no difficulty learning the pharmaceutical skills necessary to develop a new drug. And, if the purpose of that drug was not to be known, even to other members of the Organization, such a calculating person would not trust anyone but themselves to work on it. Of course, I suspect that not even all Of the Organisation's members knew the true identity of the big boss, let alone that the boss was personally one of the scientists working on this mystery drug.

 

Allow me to explain the rest by unfolding the series of events.

 

Anokata was working on the drug with her/his spouse (I am leaning more towards Elena as Anokata for reasons that may or may not be clear upon reading this, so the rest of this will be worded accordingly, but it could possibly be Atsushi). At some point, Atsushi started having second thoughts about their research, at which point he became a liability. Rather than risking that he might sabotage the project or turn the Organization over to law enforcement, Elena realized he had to be eliminated, so she staged the fire in the lab, stepping into the shawdos as Anokata full time and passing the research on to the only one she trusted with it; one of her own children. Of the two children, it was the younger, Shiho, who was chosen to succeed them in their research (presumably having shown some scientific aptitude at an early age). But the eldest child of such an important family would not be a mere grunt within the Organization. Just as Shiho undoubtedly received scientific training from an early age, Akemi would certainly have been taught other skills that would be useful to the Organization. After the "death" of the parents, Miyano Shiho was continuing research on the same mysterious drug they were working on, but all she had come up with was an untraceable poison, which she herself said was not the intended purpose of APTX-4869. I'm fairly certain that Haibara has also admitted she knew little of what went on in the Organization beyond the confines of her lab, mostly just what her sister told her. Now, with Shiho's research at a standstill, Elena came up with a plan to motivate her. What if her beloved older sister was in danger and her life depended on the completion of APTX-4869? But even that didn't get the desired results, so they had to go one step further, both to demonstrate that their threats were not empty and to try to scare Shiho into making APTX-4869 into what it was meant to be, and Miyano Akemi had to die. It was at that point that the plan was set up for the robbery case. Akemi would commit the robbery with a recruited team, kill them, and in turn be "killed" by Gin. The robbery went off as planned, but then one of the recruits betrayed Akemi and disappeared with the money before she could kill him. In disguise, she hired Kogoro to find him. After recovering the money, she didn't count on the fact that Conan would be able to track her, so the scene to fake her death was modified on the fly.

 

This scenario also answers a few questions I have had about things in the course of the series. It explains why Gin is so ready to believe Akai Shuichi is still alive, because he has carried out a faked death very similar to Akai's. It would explain why Gin didn't immediately kill Shiho rather than just handcuffing her and leaving, thus enabling her to escape (you don't just kill the boss' daughter in a criminal organization, you check with the boss first or you might end up dead as well). As for why Akemi/Rum did nothing with the information that Conan admitted to her that he was Kudo Shinichi as she was "dying," I'm sure she reported it directly to Anokata once she woke up. Rather than killing him outright, I imagine Elena's scientific curiosity was piqued and she probably gave Akemi instructions to observe him. At that point, they may not have been certain that his de-aging was caused by the APTX-4869, or (more likely) they wanted to see if there were any other effects on APTX-4869's victims that suffer the de-aging side effect before killing him. When Shiho disappeared, Elena and Akemi would have figured out how it happened and suspected she might have gone to Conan for help, which is why the Organization was looking for her in Beika specifically and why Bourbon was sent to build an association with Kogoro, with whom Conan is staying. Yet, even after "Shiho's" "death" on the Bell Tree Express, Haibara still showed up, so even though none of the other Organization members knew who she really was, her presence probably would have been reported. So finally, Akemi decided to take action and disguised herself as a new teacher's aide at Conan and Haibara's elementary school, Wakasa Rumi, to get close and do what needs to be done. She is now simply waiting for the call from her mother to kill or capture Haibara and/or Conan.

 

I was going to add a little bit more, but I think that covers the key points well enough. Plus, there are some ideas related to this that are still brewing in my mind, so I can't fully cover everything as even I haven't figured out ALL the details yet.

 

So, that is my new theory. I have tried to present it with a well thought out defense, and to answer the biggest questions it raises, but if anyone has anything to counter it, or to add to it, I am still open to ideas, so by all means let me know! I look forward to seeing everyone's responses to this theory!

 

 

Anokata is not know Shinichi is conan because he or she know shinichi is Alive, smart and probably run his live and  best possible protect is his friends. Shinichi  most do hide.Anokata no idea where. This final arc is hunter vs group  hunter.

[dclover12 0]

gosho said that boss of black organizarion is not agasa. also gosho once stated that if haibara will come to know boss identity will get shocked that clearly states that boss is someone closely related to haibara. bt all her family members are dead. so why ghosho stated that "haibara" will get shocked. i mean to say that if boss is someone closely related to haibara then its clear that it will be closely related to conan also as he is closest to her after her family. bt y will only haibara get shocked why not conan. because it would hav been more convinient to say conan will be shocked rather than saying haibara will get shocked. so it only means that boss is edogawa conan. thats why gosho had to say that haibara will get shocked. also i think gosho said that boss is too clever and careful. we all know that the most careful and clever is conan.

actually if conan is boss of black organization then it would be pretty interesting ending and somewhat sad. 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

22 minutes ago, dclover12 said:

gosho said that boss of black organizarion is not agasa. also gosho once stated that if haibara will come to know boss identity will get shocked that clearly states that boss is someone closely related to haibara. bt all her family members are dead. so why ghosho stated that "haibara" will get shocked. i mean to say that if boss is someone closely related to haibara then its clear that it will be closely related to conan also as he is closest to her after her family. bt y will only haibara get shocked why not conan. because it would hav been more convinient to say conan will be shocked rather than saying haibara will get shocked. so it only means that boss is edogawa conan. thats why gosho had to say that haibara will get shocked. also i think gosho said that boss is too clever and careful. we all know that the most careful and clever is conan.

actually if conan is boss of black organization then it would be pretty interesting ending and somewhat sad. 

There is a certain type of author that tries to be too clever and defeat all his readers by parading in a ridiculous ending that no one can see coming, but Gosho is not that kind of author. If you look at the normal cases and the arc cases so far, Gosho plays fair, and doesn't go too out of his way to be difficult or shocking. It's against Gosho's personality and writing style to choose a logic-defying twist ending where Conan is the boss.

[gg1998 3]

13 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

There is a certain type of author that tries to be too clever and defeat all his readers by parading in a ridiculous ending that no one can see coming, but Gosho is not that kind of author. If you look at the normal cases and the arc cases so far, Gosho plays fair, and doesn't go too out of his way to be difficult or shocking. It's against Gosho's personality and writing style to choose a logic-defying twist ending where Conan is the boss.

Does it mean that Boss is someone whom Haibara sees with a high regard? BTW is their like any link where Gosho confirms that Haibara would be shocked to see the boss? The mysterious disappearance of Haibara's parents were also a shocker as their bodies were never found.

Also Vermouth's hatred towards Miyano couple is quite shocking it feels like she has a personal score against them.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

1 hour ago, gg1998 said:

Does it mean that Boss is someone whom Haibara sees with a high regard? BTW is their like any link where Gosho confirms that Haibara would be shocked to see the boss? The mysterious disappearance of Haibara's parents were also a shocker as their bodies were never found.

Also Vermouth's hatred towards Miyano couple is quite shocking it feels like she has a personal score against them.

 

I'm afraid that's from a non-official source. It's often cited as a clue to the Boss' identity when it really shouldn't be. 

[gg1998 3]

1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

I'm afraid that's from a non-official source. It's often cited as a clue to the Boss' identity when it really shouldn't be. 

That's what I was thinking also, if it's from a non official source then can we discard it or take it with a pinch of salt?

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

25 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

That's what I was thinking also, if it's from a non official source then can we discard it or take it with a pinch of salt?

 

Take it with a pinch of salt if you really think there's something to this "Shiho/Ai will be shocked" thing, but, personally, I'd just discard it.

[gg1998 3]

4 minutes ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

Take it with a pinch of salt if you really think there's something to this "Shiho/Ai will be shocked" thing, but, personally, I'd just discard it.

Then better discard it, just speculations, I think it became prominent with Invader Lum theory's propagation, where Rum is Lum, the daughter of Boss. Akai is Moroboshi the person whom Lum loves, Jodie is her love rival Shinobu. But somehow Lum's snaggletooth ended up in Sera's mouth.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

11 hours ago, gg1998 said:

Then better discard it, just speculations, I think it became prominent with Invader Lum theory's propagation, where Rum is Lum, the daughter of Boss. Akai is Moroboshi the person whom Lum loves, Jodie is her love rival Shinobu. But somehow Lum's snaggletooth ended up in Sera's mouth.

"The boss's ID will shock Haibara" existed since at least 2008 (e.g. late Kir arc), and most likely before, and is attributed to something called "Mysteries and Secrets Revealed! Volume 19: The Case Closed Casebook".

Also, I'm am very concerned that someone is taking a theory involving Lum Invader seriously.

[gg1998 3]

2 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

"The boss's ID will shock Haibara" existed since at least 2008 (e.g. late Kir arc), and most likely before, and is attributed to something called "Mysteries and Secrets Revealed! Volume 19: The Case Closed Casebook".

Also, I'm am very concerned that someone is taking a theory involving Lum Invader seriously.

If Lum was Rum we wouldn't have seen Koji's death. A death would have been prevented, a shogi champion for the invader's daughter's marriage sounds lucrative.

[gabrelov 0]

I have a question in mind. Considering akai and bourbon are former or current members of the BO. Why dont they know the real name of the organization? If conan just named it BO himself, do both bourbon and akai call it BO too? And from all the members of BO who might only know the real name of the org?

[gabrelov 0]

On 5/8/2017 at 3:29 AM, dclover12 said:

gosho said that boss of black organizarion is not agasa. also gosho once stated that if haibara will come to know boss identity will get shocked that clearly states that boss is someone closely related to haibara. bt all her family members are dead. so why ghosho stated that "haibara" will get shocked. i mean to say that if boss is someone closely related to haibara then its clear that it will be closely related to conan also as he is closest to her after her family. bt y will only haibara get shocked why not conan. because it would hav been more convinient to say conan will be shocked rather than saying haibara will get shocked. so it only means that boss is edogawa conan. thats why gosho had to say that haibara will get shocked. also i think gosho said that boss is too clever and careful. we all know that the most careful and clever is conan.

actually if conan is boss of black organization then it would be pretty interesting ending and somewhat sad. 

Then they just wasted our 20 years only find out conan is playing a game. Gosho did not say shock but rather something like unexpected by haibara to be the boss. So it can or cannot be relative or close to shinichi. It might be someone Haibara met that doesnt look like a boss to her. Might be a commoner or an artist.

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

3 hours ago, gabrelov said:

Then they just wasted our 20 years only find out conan is playing a game. Gosho did not say shock but rather something like unexpected by haibara to be the boss. So it can or cannot be relative or close to shinichi. It might be someone Haibara met that doesnt look like a boss to her. Might be a commoner or an artist.

I agree with Chek. Aoyama-sensei is a fair storyteller, meaning he isn't going to throw us a plot twist that contradicts things he has already established. If Conan was Anokata, then he would naturally want to keep that hidden, so that would account for his dialogue with others portraying him as unaware. The problem, as with my previous theory that Kogoro was Anokata, is that the character has not only spoken dialogue that shows them to be unaware, but also internal monologue. This is even more true with Conan than with Kogoro. For Aoyama-sensei to hit us with this ending would be nothing more or less than trolling us.

 

Now, regarding the idea of Haibara being shocked by the identity of Anokata, there are a few problems there. First of all, though I can't find it at the moment, I could have sworn that it was debunked that Aoyama-sensei ever actually said this. But, even if I'm mistaken and there is a demonstrable quote where he did say it, there are plenty of explanations other than a troll ending where Conan is Anokata. dclover12 pointed out that all of Haibara's family are dead. While this is true, I have two observations to make. First, unless I'm mistaken, the bodies of Haibara's parents were not found after the fire that destroyed their lab (please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to spread incorrect information). Second, it is not without precedent for a character to fake their death; if it can be done by a good guy like Akai, it could also be done by a bad guy. Imagine how Haibara would react upon learning that her mother is not only alive, but is the elusive and mysterious leader of the Black Organization; I think she would be fairly shocked.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

3 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

First, unless I'm mistaken, the bodies of Haibara's parents were not found after the fire that destroyed their lab (please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to spread incorrect information).

Presence or absence of bodies wasn't specified at all. The topic never came up in manga.

[Jo Ndule 0]

Dunno yet

 

Hello guys I'm new here

But I've been a fan of conan since 2012 

I really like detective series, Manga

Etc...

[FBIAkai 1]

no idea really!

i guess some of the options are not possible because if people like james black and akai (who already know about shinichi and Sherry) were the leaders of the black organisation than dont you think they would have gone after sherry again and sent Gin after her once more.

dont u guys think?

[VVN2004 9]

I don't have any points to back these up but these are the people who I think might be the BO boss:

- Mr Masakage (magician) bc he disappeared for over a decade, but he's full name wasn't revealed, I think.

- Higo Ryusuke, bc in an interview (unofficial but whatever) it was said that Haibara would be shocked to know the real identity of boss

- Kazumi Sanada, idk why I think he is, but he's a magician and he appeared in the early chapters.

- One of the miyanos.

 

[ArifAok 0]

It is stated in the Episode 783 that vermouth is the orginazation leader. Bourbon  said it clearly.

[Rye 122]

On 7/3/2018 at 6:22 AM, ArifAok said:

It is stated in the Episode 783 that vermouth is the orginazation leader. Bourbon  said it clearly.

 

If I remember correctly, I think that Bourbon mentioned something about a secret regarding Vermouth's relationship with the Boss, not that she was the leader (more like there's a secret concerning Vermouth and the Boss that she likely doesn't want the other B.O. members to know?)

 

Reference:

 

File 836

[argoperdana 0]

My mind has been blown by this... An anonymous source once interviewed Gosho Aoyama and he said the boss of the Black Organization is indeed in the "Night Baron Murder Case" (Episodes 68-70 in ENG sub). So...it's possible that Genichirou Kaneshiro and Shizue Hayashi are the Boss and Vermouth. Now, after knowing the Boss' true identity from Volume 95 File 1008, Genichirou Kaneshiro may likely be the Boss that is in disguise for the Episodes 68-70. 

[argoperdana 0]

On 10/16/2013 at 5:35 PM, rohitjadhav42 said:

well it comes to me when i was  re-watching the episodes that-->

that in Night Baron Murder Case(Ep 70-73 in English Dubbed)

Volume 8: Files 2-7 (072-077)

this two - &  

were they really vermouth and the boss (in disguise)?.

 

cuz after Conan leaves he(genichirou Kaneshiro(Winston Cadbury in ENG dub)) tells Shizue they must be careful because of Conan's suspicions.

& find out that Conan was no Ordinary Kid And have Shizue to keep an EYE on Conan!

&

what was that about his son who died four years ago? it doesn't lead ME to anywhere; as also conan was also thinking about his son before interrupted by Shizue Hayashi(Clarissa Bunn in ENG dub)

and does they(genichirou Kaneshiro & Shizue Hayashi) show up in any other case or not?

i guess not!

Were they Really Vermouth And That person or Boss of BO in Disguise?

(for me i dont think they were Boss and vermouth but Still, they were Suspicious to ME; i just want to see what you guy's  thinks)

So, what do you think them guys? 

 

My mind has been blown by this... An anonymous source once interviewed Gosho Aoyama and he said the boss of the Black Organization is indeed in the "Night Baron Murder Case" (Episodes 68-70 in ENG sub). So...it's possible that Genichirou Kaneshiro is the Boss. Now, after knowing the Boss' true identity from Volume 95 File 1008, Genichirou Kaneshiro may likely be the Boss that is in disguise for the Episodes 68-70.

However, I don't believe that Shizue Hayashi is Vermouth in disguise, instead, I think it's Hideko Kamijo. She has a very similar physical resemblance and even the same voice actress (maybe?) with Vermouth.

[The Heisei Holmes 0]

Um I am not sure but I guess it will be cool if the school principal is the boss 

[Glass Heart 34]

What if the boss is intended to appear as something we don't expect from a series like Detective Conan: a child who doesn't appear to be anything else than a child at first, while having a fake identity, a fake life, a fake family (with agents using disguises or not) ?

[Darqo 0]

Hi, 

 

I’m new here, according to recent manga and anime events the boss is confirmed to be Karasuma Renya.

 

Let’s discuss Karasuma Renya and how his character will be significant in the upcoming storylines.

 

Love you all,

Darqo