Boss of The Black Organization?

[Lia. 45]

When it comes to Ai's parents, they are on the bottom of the list in my opinion.

I just don't see the facts and the Boss thing tying in well.

They're just there to push aside the question, "Who are Ai's parents?"

I don't think Gosho really meant for them to ever be mentioned outside of a few flashbacks.

I agree.

If Ai's parents are the boss of the BO, then why would Ai's sister Akemi want to leave the organization and bring Ai with her?

I think the boss of the BO is more likely to be Mr. Suzuki or Booker Kudo.

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

What about kogoro? :grin: (I think thats hilarious..)

Maybe he is just acting dumb and he planned to shrank shinichi so that

He can take the stage and become famous "Sleeping Kogoro".

Because Conan\shinichi is always in the frontpage.

I think Conan will just laugh in front of Kogoro, if that is true.

[KudoKun18 6]

^ So, Conan shouldn't have saved Kogoro from his near-death assassination back in that Black Impact episode? :grin:

[Vicky 1]

I'm seriously convinced that the Boss is James Black. No lie. There was once a Sherlock Holmes play (one of the original plays) where the actor who played Moriarty was named James Black. Plus, the evidence is all there - he mentioned he was from England, lives in America, his surname's Black and he's of age to be Anokata. I also remember in some file that Vodka slipped out "Kuro ---" and then changed to some pseudonym when he was talking about the Org because he accidentally slipped up. (I think this was Haibara's first appearance? Not sure.)

Also, I don't think James ever got "personally" involved in any of the B.O. action aside from instructing the F.B.I. on what to do on missions. >_> I could be wrong on this since my memory's a bit failsauce. xD

[Stopwatch 36]

Hmm... nice to see logical reasoning in these theories for once (no insult meant to anyone else, I'm just saying that some people say things like, 'It can't be Megure, he's too pretty~!' instead of thinking of evidence). So... maybe just straighten out any holes in your theory (e.g. it seems like an obvious red herring, how would you explain that) and you'll be good to go. Interesting choice too

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I'm seriously convinced that the Boss is James Black. No lie.

The main problem with the theory "James is the boss" is why he hasn't used any of the FBI info to the Org's benefit. James knows info that would be fatal to Haibara, Conan, Kir, and possibly Vermouth. If the boss was a spy and he doesn't want the Org destroyed, why isn't he doing his job when he has the means to help maintain the Org's secrecy and remove active threats against them?

James knows Haibara is the person called Sherry. (See Volume 42 File 11 discussing the witness protection offer the FBI made Haibara) No one in the Org besides Vermouth has shown any signs of knowing where Sherry is, so basically if James is the boss, he hasn't told anyone even though he directed his subordinates to go look for her. Why would the boss order his subordinates to hunt down Shiho, but not make any effort to help them, or even work against them by aiding the FBI and offering her witness protection? It doesn't make sense.

James also knows about Conan and his effective interference with the Org's plans, but again, there has been no action on James' part. Conan was able to get the best of Vermouth with the FBI's help. He is a dangerous threat. In her intro chapters, Haibara told Conan that she thought the Org would kill him before she had the chance to study him; basically the Org's first priority is to stay secret and then get on with research. Also the boss was stated to be very cautious by Vermouth. Why is the boss risking so much by allowing Conan to run about freely and muck with Org plans?

Also James knows Kir is a CIA mole. Why keep her around? Why can't the BO set a trap for her and kill her while she contacts the CIA, or pretend they caught her calling the CIA? Or knowing she was a CIA mole, couldn't he guess the plan that allowed Kir and Akai to fake Akai's death? (He knows how Camel escaped or could ask him later, and I presume Gin and Vodka have the video) Basically, James would know about the same amount of info as the readers. He should be able to figure it out if he is smart.

If James was the boss, he would know that Vermouth made a move on Sherry, and that Vermouth not only failed to capture/kill her, she also lied about what she was doing and left a "witness" to her plans (Araide) alive. Vermouth made a very big slip-up here. Even if she is his favorite, why should he tolerate destructive-to-the-Organization behavior?

There was once a Sherlock Holmes play (one of the original plays) where the actor who played Moriarty was named James Black.

I searched but couldn't find a source for that - I found a recent play, but not an original one. In any case, James Black's name may not be his real name; maybe James Black was having a bit of a joke with an alias. In any case, it would be kind of silly for Gosho to point out the name pun so obviously if he was the boss. It seems more like a red herring to make the Vermouth arc harder in my opinion.

I also remember in some file that Vodka slipped out "Kuro ---" and then changed to some pseudonym when he was talking about the Org because he accidentally slipped up.

I don't remember this. You wouldn't be thinking of the damaged tape where Vodka disguises his voice and claims to be from "Kuro life insurance" on a message machine? The pause there was because the tape was damaged by an unrelated case culprit's trick. (If that is what you are remembering, Vodka was trying to lure out Hirota to kill him because of his connection to Akemi and therefore Shiho might try to use him to escape.)

Also, I don't think James ever got "personally" involved in any of the B.O. action aside from instructing the F.B.I. on what to do on missions. >_> I could be wrong on this since my memory's a bit failsauce. xD

He was actively driving for a mission in Org vs. FBI; he pulled up alongside Kir while Jodie in the passenger seat leveled her gun at Kir. He also had a bomb in a pot of flowers delivered to him in Red vs. Black.

Basically, to sum it up, with everything James knows, if he was the boss, it would be really easy to plan some kind of accidents for Conan and Haibara that would fool even the FBI, especially after the FBI apparently lost their trump card Akai. Maybe Gin and Vodka appear somewhere, Conan, being as predictable as he is, follows and they catch him following?

For now, I believe the boss is a new character or one that has been only mentioned tangentially. My basic assumption is that the boss can't be anyone who has had more than passing contact with Haibara, because I would assume the boss would recognize her. (Pisco and Vermouth noticed right away)

[phantomlady1101 59]

Just wait and wait!!!!

[Detective Rohit 38]

I heard some rumours saying "Agasa is Anokata"

[Glass Heart 34]

For now, I believe the boss is a new character or one that has been only mentioned tangentially. My basic assumption is that the boss can't be anyone who has had more than passing contact with Haibara, because I would assume the boss would recognize her. (Pisco and Vermouth noticed right away)

Eri Kisaki and Masumi Sera haven't met Haibara yet if I remember well. And I don't think Haibara has met every police officers either.

Haibara's black aura detector might be a clue. She has met almost every regular characters of the series.

[KudoKun18 6]

But still, Haibara's life has yet to be in serious danger as of this time. So, it is safe to assume that anokata hasn't showed up yet in the story.

[Conan Edogawa415 3]

There are so many possible culprits when you just think "who could it be?" lol, its fun but at the same time Im dying to know

[Akazora 293]

I heard some rumours saying "Agasa is Anokata"

Yeah, that's a popular but unlikely one.

I think the most likely culprit (with little to no story plot holes) is the Yoko theory.

I'll repost what I think in case you missed it earlier on in this topic.

My theory is:

Vermouth is her favorite as a "best friend" of some sort. I don't think the Boss and Vermouth's relationship is anything more than that. As for her being friends with Hidemi, I think this is because she starts getting suspicious that Conan might be Shinichi and that Gin failed in his attempt to silence the pesky detective. Ever since the first real episode (the one where Yoko is first introduced with the suicide) Yoko might have been suspicious that Kogoro is not the man he really seems to be. As the story plot advances, she gets so suspicious that Yoko finally tells Kir to investigate. Kir is having minor problems with the doorbell ringer, but it's good enough to ask Kogoro help for. So Yoko and Kir make an excuse and ask Kogoro to solve the simple case, when their main goal is to see whether or not Conan is behind it all. Eventually, the case is solved and Kir phones Gin and tells him she had a small problem and nothing is the matter any more. She was probably told by Yoko to investigate but not tell Gin anything about it. I think after the doorbell ringing case, Kir might have been suspicious that Conan is not the boy he seems to be and Kogoro is not the detective he seems to be. But since Kir is one of the nicer BO members, she probably felt bad for Conan and let him slip. Later on in the series, Kir and Conan finally get to talk to each other face to face (after Kir revives in the hospital) and I'm nearly 100% sure Kir thinks Conan is Shinichi. But since they've grown to be mutual "friends", she wouldn't dare reveal his secret to the BO boss.

It's the same theory as before, just with the ending edited a bit.

[Anti-APTX4869 181]

well does that mean there is high chance that Anokata is not going to be a 'new' character, but instead one of the current characters?

Well, i think i missed this but what about Sera? There could be a reason a 'new character' showed up in the story... although it is normal... but we can say it is suspicious right?

[Glass Heart 34]

If it's a character already introduced, I think it's Eri Kisaki:

-I don't remember that Ai Haibara and Eri Kisaki have ever met in the manga. Every time there is an Eri Kisaki story, Gosho Aoyama tries to not involve Haibara.

-She is far from stupid and she can have already guessed Conan's identity. But she could have a reason for not doing anything (protecting Ran and Kogoro for the time being. If the Black Organization attacks Conan, they would be involved as well).

-Eri is also derived from Eris, goddess of discord and chaos. Eris has several children, all symbolizing bad values (murder, pain, ruin, famine, etc...), like the Black Organization has agents such as Gin, Vodka, Vermouth, etc...

[hopes 237]

If it's a character already introduced, I think it's Eri Kisaki:

-I don't remember that Ai Haibara and Eri Kisaki have ever met in the manga. Every time there is an Eri Kisaki story, Gosho Aoyama tries to not involve Haibara.

-She is far from stupid and she can have already guessed Conan's identity. But she could have a reason for not doing anything (protecting Ran and Kogoro for the time being. If the Black Organization attacks Conan, they would be involved as well).

-Eri is also derived from Eris, goddess of discord and chaos. Eris has several children, all symbolizing bad values (murder, pain, ruin, famine, etc...), like the Black Organization has agents such as Gin, Vodka, Vermouth, etc...

OOH!! That's a good one!! And the Organization's tune of the song... Seven Children/Crows. And, it would explain why the Boss likes Detectives: Kogoro.

[Akazora 293]

If it's a character already introduced, I think it's Eri Kisaki:

-I don't remember that Ai Haibara and Eri Kisaki have ever met in the manga. Every time there is an Eri Kisaki story, Gosho Aoyama tries to not involve Haibara.

-She is far from stupid and she can have already guessed Conan's identity. But she could have a reason for not doing anything (protecting Ran and Kogoro for the time being. If the Black Organization attacks Conan, they would be involved as well).

-Eri is also derived from Eris, goddess of discord and chaos. Eris has several children, all symbolizing bad values (murder, pain, ruin, famine, etc...), like the Black Organization has agents such as Gin, Vodka, Vermouth, etc...

Great theory!

Now I'm sure it's either Yoko or Eri!

[Glass Heart 34]

If I say "Eri Kisaki and Ai Haibara have never met" as an argument, it's because Haibara could have felt the black aura if she is really part of it, and Eri could also have recognized the young Shiho Miyano.

If Eri is part of the Black Organization, it could explain why Gosho Aoyama tries to prevent their encounter in the manga.

For the children of Eris, there're not seven but fourteen in greek mythology. But they are what we could call "crows", as harbingers of doom.

But abhorred Eris ('Strife') bare painful Ponos ('Toil/Labor'), Lethe ('Forgetfulness') and Limos ('Famine') and tearful Algos (Pains/Sorrows), Hysminai ('Fightings/Combats') also, Makhai ('Battles'), Phonoi ('Murders/Slaughterings'), Androctasiai ('Manslaughters'), Neikea ('Quarrels'), Pseudologoi ('Lies/Falsehoods'), Amphilogiai ('Disputes'), Dysnomia ('Lawlessness') and Ate ('Ruin/Folly'), all of one nature, and Horkos ('Oath') who most troubles men upon earth when anyone wilfully swears a false oath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eris_%28mythology%29

The interesting thing is that the "children" could refer to the Black Organization as well as law concepts (oath, lies/falsehood, lawlessness, quarrels, disputes, murders/slaughtering, manslaughtering...). It's a pandora box.

[hopes 237]

AMAZING!!

[Stopwatch 36]

Hmm... Pandora's Box, interesting but who's hope? Vermouth makes the most sense if you don't count Kir as BO

[Glass Heart 34]

I simply meant by "Pandora's box" that the children of Eris are manifestations of pure evilness/of doom.

But, to answer about the character symbolizing hope in the series, it's Ran (Eri's true child). She's seen that way by several characters, even by Vermouth.

[phantomlady1101 59]

I heard some rumours saying "Agasa is Anokata"

Ho ho ho!!! Liar!!!

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

Chekhov MacGuffin is right about james, every body suspects him, agasa, why would he destroy a franchise org. in crime (50 years ) the boss, by vermouths reactions is not worried for conan because he does not see him as a clever boy ( and he most likely met him but never saw his potential and left him as it is)

Conan just calls them the black org, that is not even there name

And a org existing 50 years how old do you think the boss is ( james 52years, if he was a crime lord with 2 years )

The real boss is dead and someone replaced him ( thats what vermouth says raising the dead in itakuras diary, and ais dad inventing a that does so but never did ( ep 312 )

Oops

forgot to mention or is alive for all these years, which is unbelievable

[Akazora 293]

Chekhov MacGuffin is right about james, every body suspects him, agasa, why would he destroy a franchise org. in crime (50 years ) the boss, by vermouths reactions is not worried for conan because he does not see him as a clever boy ( and he most likely met him but never saw his potential and left him as it is)

Conan just calls them the black org, that is not even there name

And a org existing 50 years how old do you think the boss is ( james 52years, if he was a crime lord with 2 years )

The real boss is dead and someone replaced him ( thats what vermouth says raising the dead in itakuras diary, and ais dad inventing a that does so but never did ( ep 312 )

Hmm, it's possible the original Boss could have already died, but it's also possible that the Boss has managed to stay young through some immortality drug.

[Cammy3131 20]

I just visited this forum to say one thing.... WHY DOES EVERYONE SAY THAT "THAT PERSON" IS AGASA-HAKASE!?!?!? It's ....... *eye twitches* RIDICULOUS!!!!!! EVERY TIME I THINK OF THE BLACK ORGANIZATION NOW... I think of that one lone dark room.... with a narrow lineup to one solo desk and a tall black swivel chair- AND THEN I JUST SEE AGASA-HAKASE swipe around in the chair going "Hello Kudo Shinichi." with a VERY SERIOUS LOOK~!!!! I can't take it seriously even if I wanted to!!!!! ALL THE IMAGINARY CHARACTERS I SET UP IN MY MIND ENCOUNTERING HIM ARE LAUGHING TOO HARD FOR ME TO TAKE THE WHOLE THING SERIOUSLY!!!! ...... so yeah... I'm gonna think it's Agasa-Hakase until they finally reveal who "that person" is...... which will probably be in- *looks at watch* -maybe another 6 years..... -________-

[Akazora 293]

I just visited this forum to say one thing.... WHY DOES EVERYONE SAY THAT "THAT PERSON" IS AGASA-HAKASE!?!?!? It's ....... *eye twitches* RIDICULOUS!!!!!! EVERY TIME I THINK OF THE BLACK ORGANIZATION NOW... I think of that one lone dark room.... with a narrow lineup to one solo desk and a tall black swivel chair- AND THEN I JUST SEE AGASA-HAKASE swipe around in the chair going "Hello Kudo Shinichi." with a VERY SERIOUS LOOK~!!!! I can't take it seriously even if I wanted to!!!!! ALL THE IMAGINARY CHARACTERS I SET UP IN MY MIND ENCOUNTERING HIM ARE LAUGHING TOO HARD FOR ME TO TAKE THE WHOLE THING SERIOUSLY!!!! ...... so yeah... I'm gonna think it's Agasa-Hakase until they finally reveal who "that person" is...... which will probably be in- *looks at watch* -maybe another 6 years..... -________-

You got so worked up over it...

Why not consider some of the better theories like Yoko or Eri?