Boss of The Black Organization?

[SayaMitsuki 1]

I think maybe the boss is Sera's oldest brother, not Akai, because he hasn't appeared yet. Maybe it turns to be that he is the Boss xD I've got that feeling

[rjk15 0]

Personally, I think that the Nazi idea is an interesting fanfiction idea, even if it doesn't turn out to be canon.

 

Same here, even though i don't know much history, but based on some explanations, it is quite interesting....

[rjk15 0]

2006年朝日新聞夕刊のインタビュー記事より

From 2006 Asahi Evening Newspaper interview article

2006年1月13日（金）朝日新聞夕刊の記事「アニメ・原作いい刺激」

Friday January 13, 2006, Asahi Evening Newspaper article "Anime, Manga [are] good stimulus"

実はボスの名前は既に原作のどこかにでている。捜してみて下さい。…

In fact, the boss' name already appeared somewhere in the manga. Please see if you can find it. . . .

 

2005年青山剛昌とコナンファンの集いでの質問コーナーより

From Q&A in a gathering between Aoyama Gosho and Conan fans in 2005

Ｑ．黒の組織について？

Q. On the Black Syndicate/Organization?

Ａ．正式名称はある。言うとボスの名前がバレちゃうので言えません。

A. A formal name exists. If mentioned, the boss' name will be exposed so I can't say.

『名探偵コナン＆金田一少年の事件簿』4号より

From "Detective Conan & Kindaichi Case Files" 4th Issue

Ｑ.これに気付いているor知っているのは自分だけ！！

Q. Only self noticed/knows about this!!

高山みなみ｢｢あのお方｣が誰なのか…。キャストは誰も知らない。｣

Takayama Minami: who "anokata" is . . . None of the [other] casts know.

This seems to be some interview with Minami, who, as you know, voices Conan in Japanese. I'll see if I can get a confirmation on this, too, but I don't have much time right now, ha ha.

EDIT: This Japanese website compiling info on Conan confirms that the Detective Conan & Kindaichi Case Files #4 did a special report on what the voice actors know that the general public don't. I guess I'll have to buy the issue to really see the full interview, hmm. /EDIT

 

 

So if the second source is to be trusted, Anokata's name popped up before sometime in 2005 - and since the first source is reliable, definitely by January 13 2006. The 2chan blog says this means the name popped up somewhere before File 551, but you guys can check that for yourselves.

Anyways, I think we can effectively rule out the "new character" possibility, yes? ^^

 

Good thing i saw this earlier!! i will keep my eye out since i'm only on chap 466!! i will watch out for any suspicious characters before chap 551!!

anyway, from what volume does 2005 (start to end of it) cover??

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Good thing i saw this earlier!! i will keep my eye out since i'm only on chap 466!! i will watch out for any suspicious characters before chap 551!!

anyway, from what volume does 2005 (start to end of it) cover??

I estimate about Files 419 to 465 are the 2005 chapters. I don't have a list of the release dates unfortunately, so that is a guess.

[rohitjadhav42 10]

I estimate about Files 419 to 465 are the 2005 chapters. I don't have a list of the release dates unfortunately, so that is a guess.

 

 

so you are saying that Boss might have occur between these following Chapters:

 

File 414: A Tight Match (ママはライバル!? ^?)

File 415: Suspicious Gunshot (疑惑の銃声 ^?)

File 416: The Night Baroness's Entry (闇の男爵夫人(ナイトバロニス)登場! ^?)

File 417: Darkness is a Death Trap (暗闇は死の罠(デストラップ)の扉 ^?)

File 418: A Silent Murder in the Dark (暗闇の音無き殺人 ^?)

File 419: Mystery of the Black Light (黒い光の謎 ^?)

File 420: The Enclosing Surrounding Net (迫る包囲網 ^?)

File 421: The Crisis that is There (そこにある危機 ^?)

File 422: Inescapable Target (逃れられないターゲット ^?)

File 423: A Mystery Left by a Visitor (ある来訪者の残した謎 ^?)

File 424: A Mystery Left in a Small Room (小さな密室に残された秘密 ^?)

File 425: The Hidden Truth (隠されていた真実 ^?)

File 426: Goodbye Jodie (good-byeジョディ ^?)

File 427: Ran's Deduction (蘭の推理 ^?)

File 428: The Unbelievable Conclusion (信じられない結末 ^?)

File 429: The Full Moon and the Trap at the Banquet (満月の夜と黒い宴の罠 ^?)

File 430: The Haunted Ship Painted with Blood (血塗られた幽霊船 ^?)

File 431: The Invisible Man Appears (透明人間現る! ^?)

File 432: Kudo Shinichi to the Rescue (工藤新一登場!? ^?)

File 433: The Truth Behind the Mask (仮面の下の真実 ^?)

File 434: Rotten Apple (ラットゥンアップル ^?)

File 435: Trace in the Rain (雨中の刻印 ^?)

File 436: Search for the Mark! (おしりの印(マーク)を探せ! ^?)

File 437: Haibara Ai's Resolution (灰原哀の決意 ^?)

File 438: The Forgotten Number (忘れられた携帯電話 ^?)

File 439: The Strange Address Book (奇妙なメモリー ^?)

File 440: Another Detective (もうひとつの名探偵 ^?)

File 441: Multiple Proposals?! (どっちの推理ショー!? ^?)

File 442: Six Masks of the Message (六面体のメッセージ ^?)

File 443: The Dying Message's Hidden Meaning (ダイイングメッセージの裏を読め! ^?)

File 444: The Made-Up Message (仕組まれたメッセージ ^?)

File 445: One Evil Among 53,000 (53,000分の1の悪魔 ^?)

File 446: The Challenge of Koshien's Evil Spirit (甲子園の魔物の挑発 ^?)

File 447: Solving the 3 Numeric Codes! (3つの数字の謎を解け! ^?)

File 448: No Hint!? (ヒントが無い!? ^?)

File 449: The End of the Game?! (試合終了(ゲームセット)...!? ^?)

File 450: From Heaven to Hell (天国から地獄 ^?)

File 451: Makes No Sense! (全然平気!? ^?)

File 452: There is no Suspicion?! (疑わないの? ^?)

File 453: Miracle (奇蹟 ^?)  File 454: Shock (驚愕 ^?) 

File 455: Panic (戦慄 ^?)  File 456: Escape (脱出 ^?) 

File 457: A Ghost Story At School (学校奇譚 ^?)

File 458: Where are the Footprints?! (足跡はどこに!? ^?)

File 459: Truth Behind the Remaining Desk (残された机の真実 ^?)

File 460: Open Murder at Sea (海の上の開かれた密室 ^?)

File 461: Poison on the Bait?! (釣りエサは毒!? ^?)

File 462: The Blessed Fishing Spot (嬉しい火傷 ^?)

File 463: Hideyoshi's Counterattack (秀吉の大返し ^?)

File 464: A Strange Feeling (違和感... ^?)

File 465: A Back-Street in the Sky (大空の裏道 ^?)

File 466: A Secret Letter from the Star (星より密かに ^?)

File 467: Have You Seen the Star? (星を見たかい ^?)

File 468: A Wish to the Star (星に願いを ^?)

[Black Demon 466]

No, it could also be before that.

[rohitjadhav42 10]

well it comes to me when i was  re-watching the episodes that-->

that in Night Baron Murder Case(Ep 70-73 in English Dubbed)

Volume 8: Files 2-7 (072-077)

this two - &  

were they really vermouth and the boss (in disguise)?.

 

cuz after Conan leaves he(genichirou Kaneshiro(Winston Cadbury in ENG dub)) tells Shizue they must be careful because of Conan's suspicions.

& find out that Conan was no Ordinary Kid And have Shizue to keep an EYE on Conan!

&

what was that about his son who died four years ago? it doesn't lead ME to anywhere; as also conan was also thinking about his son before interrupted by Shizue Hayashi(Clarissa Bunn in ENG dub)

and does they(genichirou Kaneshiro & Shizue Hayashi) show up in any other case or not?

i guess not!

Were they Really Vermouth And That person or Boss of BO in Disguise?

(for me i dont think they were Boss and vermouth but Still, they were Suspicious to ME; i just want to see what you guy's  thinks)

So, what do you think them guys? 

[PetePete 8]

For some reason I feel like its someone related to Sonoko's family, With all the money and knowing so many different types of people... anything is possible right?

[Shinxran9111 9]

I just love this talk about the boss, offical name now, Anokata, japanese for that person, e-mai- song of nanatsu no ko

 

In my theory, not yet introduced, but seen as a  shadowed person, have not been metioned a lot, only by a few members in the organization

 

Gender ? Name? Age? Traits? Parents? Voice? 

 

In other words, completly locked out.

[detectiveRJB 15]

I just love this talk about the boss, offical name now, Anokata, japanese for that person, e-mai- song of nanatsu no ko

 

In my theory, not yet introduced, but seen as a  shadowed person, have not been metioned a lot, only by a few members in the organization

 

Gender ? Name? Age? Traits? Parents? Voice? 

 

In other words, completly locked out

We know some habit!

[Rye 122]

I think it may be Kuroba Toichi. I mean, he has the resources, the money. And he's also skilled and intelligent. He's also very careful. I mean, he's the Kaitou Kid. Not to mention, he may also have connections to many people. Also, he is close to Sharon Vineyard, who is Vermouth, so he fits in with the "Vermouth favorite" thing.

[PetePete 8]

You know,, it could be Shiratori, he has money, loves wine, maybe thats how their members got their names, he an inspector and Ai compared his relationship with his current girlfriend to a novel holmes story if I'm not mistaken. Think about it, maybe the drug was really made to revive the dead.. maybe Shiratori was trying to revive the dead and start a new world under a certain set of laws on some weird corrupt stuff o.O. Remember he was willing to mess up Takagi's date with Sato? Maybe he was willing to do more, but can't with all the police around him. Also he believes in fate.. maybe he think this is fate having him control Japan and then the world by reviving the dead and controlling them as his minions? O.o. Also if he was only created for "movies" then maybe movies were meant to be canon but because the series did better then expected they decided to prolong it and make the movies non canon and officially show him in the manga and anime.

[User 4869 100]

@Toichi

 

- He is dead.

- Does he ever kill people? It make no sense that his robbery ensure so much no one get killed, then create Organization that kill for money, among other things

- He existed before Detective Conan. having Toichi alive and being BO boss would screw Magic Kaitou story. So the son go after a man who murder his father, then find out that his father fake his death, and live as a criminal.

- He is dead.

Yes, I  know I repeat it.

 

@Shiratori.

-The only one has power to decide manga is Gosho. If he want a boss, he should create and introduce him himself. He should get an idea who the boss must be before start a series. How his appearance, personality, gender will be. Rather than borrow someone else character.

- Shiratori come into close contact with Conan and Haibara. Never suspect them to be shrunken people. Dont remember Ai as Shiho. Why?

 

maybe Shiratori was trying to revive the dead and start a new world under a certain set of laws on some weird corrupt stuff

 

- Why Shiratori, why not someone else? Why not, say...Agasa? Yukiko?Megure? Everybody else? There are nothing indicated that Shiratori more special or close to this assumption than any other.

 

 

 

 Also if he was only created for "movies" then maybe movies were meant to be canon but because the series did better then expected they decided to prolong it and make the movies non canon and officially show him in the manga and anime.

 

 

i dont see reason behind this. How the series popularity influence whether or not to make movie canon? Movie maker cannot make anything canon without Gosho approval.

[Hobgoblin2012 49]

I would be really surprised if Shiratori was the boss. He initially appeared as a quite ridiculous character when continuously stalking Sato with all the other policemen and gave an impression to have been introduced only to serve as an "annoyance" and obstacle to Takagi and Sato. It would be strange if Gosho chose to make a character associated with such ridiculous situations the boss.

[PetePete 8]

Lol I know my theory seems really unlikely, but to be honest the boss would have to be older then 40 if whats said about Atsushi Miyano is true in this text:

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Atsushi_Miyano

 

If younger maybe the organization was inherited? Meeting someone to fund his research 30 years prior till now? Only person I can think of around that age bracket is Agasa lol but he is not a suspect. Can we break some things down to age? Seeing how the Boss has no know a lot of people to get to the stature he's at now... unless it was inherited in my opinion. 

[User 4869 100]

He might be old, but not appearing old (Older than they look, like Vermouth)

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Moving the boss part of this topic from manga discussion here

Besides, it's not Gosho's style to do "the good guy was really a bad guy" plots.

Can't agree with that. Since we have Amuro as example. I still think that he's not that bad, but still. Moreover, Aoyama-sensei like symbolism (Holmes, Gundam, etc, etc, etc) and symbolically James fits great. I can't say that he fits ideally and never did, since there's a lot of things against such a theory and you already named some, but among the others he looks like the best candidate for me. Because, unlike many other theories, this one have a lot of proofs. Both in facts and in symbolism. That's actually why I like it so much. I can't even name another person with so many things against him / her. Especially during Clash of Red and Black. After James was on one side and Gin on another when Soshiki was about to prevent any possible contacts between Akai-san and Hidemi-san, it's just way too much. Even if he aren't the biggest bad guy out there, I still can't stop thinking that he's related to the Organization.

That's not the kind of "good" I mean. A good guy, as I meant it, is someone who helps the protagonists and tries to undermine the Black Organization, like Agasa, Akai, or James Black. Amuro was never the kind of good I mean, he merely had a nice face and personality to deceive you. Amuro's actions were never quite good. He was willing to let a suspect destroy exonerating evidence in order to test Kogoro.

People like Agasa, Akai, or James Black aren't going to be the boss, because it would mean the boss is acting against his own interests in the Org. I do understand the advantage to being a spy, but the boss has a goal to achieve and the FBI, CIA, and Conan are threatening it. It's wouldn't be a safe choice to stand by and let them do so. There are plenty of subtle tactics the boss could use to hurt these people and make it seem like a coincidence or accident. Things like this haven't happened.

 

Any theory is just a theory in the end. But I like this theory, because there's a lot of things to support it.

As for James's "symbolism", it is a red herring that was meant to cast aspersions on him back when the FBI character's allegiances were still unproven. Akai was named after the big bad of the gundam series, yet he didn't turn out bad. Actions always speak louder than demeanor or "themes". Once you strip James of his name, there is nothing I can think of that would point towards him being the boss. Think about what James has done so far. He has gotten kidnapped, and required rescuing by Akai (but Conan got to him first). He found out who "Cool guy" was, no action taken. He found out who Sherry was, no action taken. He helped hide Kir in a hospital using one of his friends, no one in the BO can find her even though the top agents applied a lot of manpower. Thanks to the BO's search, one of their members was caught phoning the boss, chased down by Akai, and killed. James found out Kir was CIA, no action taken. James lets Akai have freedom to pursue his own plans, which usually winds up helping the FBI more often than not. Shouldn't the so-called boss have a tighter leash on the one he considers a silver bullet?

Add on top of all of that the cellphone alibi, and you have a pretty good case James isn't the boss. Speaking from experience at recognizing Gosho's tactics, this isn't the kind of strong alibi that a criminal tries to build to rule himself out, it's the kind of alibi an innocent suspect accumulates. If James has any secrets to hide, I'd put them in his past with Jodie's father and maybe Shuuichi and Masumi's father as well.

 

Also Ai never felt any fear or reaction around James neither, you know how she can "pick up" the feeling of a BO member nearby? He was outside the door when Ai was talking to Jodie, nothing happened.

Unlike Chekhov's entry about the alibi, this one can't be considered as a proof, since we don't know a single thing about the nature of Ai-san's "sixth sense". We don't even know if it's drug-related, or just a strong sense of evil intents.

Ai's sense works like this.

No false positives so far: Ai has never been wrong when she detects a Black Organization aura. She has never sensed one from a common criminal who wasn't in the Org.

False negatives do happen: Ai doesn't always detect the aura from Black Organization agents present. She is more likely to miss if there are more than one BO agent, or the Org. operative isn't focussing intently/being evil at the time.

The Black Organization sense seems to be somewhat dependent on Ai's state on mind. If she is not alert/paranoid, she might miss a signal more easily.

 

Moreover, 20 years ago Akemi was around 5. And Miyano family was able to move somehow freely. Amuro was 9 at that time already, so, yet again, a lot of possibilities.

The Miyano family was not free to move around. They were followed and watched. During the meeting with his friend, there was a tinted-window car pulled up outside that Atsushi kept looking out at. If the Miyanos were truly trusted, there would have been no need for the minder.

[Glass Heart 34]

As for me, I think the boss is likely linked to Renya Karasuma, if he isn't Karasuma himself (he would be what nowadays ? 150 or so ?).

[PetePete 8]

in the manga when Gin was about to kill Picso, Gin said he received proof from "him". Was that a bad translation? Or is that proof that the boss is a male? Remember also Vermouth is the boss favorite correct? Maybe she wants to leave him and the organization, but knows she can't without being killed because she's attached to the boss in someway? Remember Conan also said that when he looked at Vermouth reading the email from the boss he sense loneliness or some type of distant emotion(Do not quote me on this). 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

in the manga when Gin was about to kill Picso, Gin said he received proof from "him". Was that a bad translation? Or is that proof that the boss is a male?

The original word was gender ambiguous; it might have been "ano kata" but I don't remember any more. What Gin said was that the boss contacted Gin directly (Not necessarily in person mind you, it could be a text message to Gin's phone) and told him to kill Pisco because he made a mistake.

That case where Pisco appears is the first time the boss is mentioned, so some translators hadn't come up with good conventions for dealing with the gender ambiguity accurately.

[Black Demon 466]

Yeah, he used "Ano kata": [...]あの方直々の命令だ…

[User 4869 100]

Actually, never trust gender specific translation. Japanese can talk without mention I, We, You at all. If I say Suki dayo. It mean I love you, But that phrase contain neither I or you. Just Like. And that enough to convey the meaning in japanese. One particular mistake that you will find in the manga of Pisco case is. Gin refer to the one who help Sherry as That boy.imply he see Conan. Actually He say that man.

 

Sense of loneliness come from the tune of Nanatsu no ko. Which he only partially heard when he regain consciousness. So He associate loneliness with the picture of Vermouth use a cellphone.

[PetePete 8]

Ai doesn't know the boss correct? So her senses probably won't activate if he/she is around, now i think we should find out the true name of the organization, because if that is revealed then we should find out the boss correct?

[KirisatoSei 1]

^{That's quite correct. I heard that Gosho himself said that if the name of the organization is revealed, then the name of Anokata will be instantly known.}

 

^{I still like the Eri Kisaki theory, but Chekhov killed it with cold facts. Still what interests me more than the theory is the fact that Sherry and Eri haven't met even once in the entire series! I seriously thinks definitely something to wait for. Remember: Gosho said that Sherry would be so shocked once she knows who Anokata is..} 

 

^BUT:

 

We all know that Gosho is a master of red herring, of putting hints then disproving it, of making thing appear a certain angle but is not really meant to be looked like that.

 

 

I strongly feel that Kogorou Mouri's past is strongly connected to Anokata's Identity. Whether it's his past or Eri Kisaki's past, I don't know. With the introduction of Sera, another angle is making it's way into the DC world. Akai, Sera, even Bourbon's teaming up with Vermouth is clearly a prelude to something big. Something that might have an effect to the whole series. 

[User 4869 100]

Ai doesn't know the boss correct?

 

Not confirmed. But when Conan mentioned Nanatsu no ko area code (Kurayashi in Tattori). Ai reacted. suggest she know something about the location, which maybe related to the boss.

 

So her senses probably won't activate if he/she is around,

 

 

Ai know the person or not has nothing to do with her able to sense them. The first time Haibara mention this sense to Conan, is to assure him a man in black passing by is not a BO member. The man is unknown to both Ai and Conan. This does not mean one should assume the boss won't trigger Ai sense. He may not.