Boss of The Black Organization?

[Heliotropic 139]

And also, did anyone read about that some guy interviewed Aoyama and he got an information (volume number) about the when Aoyama determine who the boss is, but then decide not to publish it... (his friend leaked it eventually, but not the volume number, more like a clue)

 

I believe it was before V53 P8 - I think it came up recently in the "Raven Apocalypse" booklet, but I think there is also an interview from a couple years ago saying the same thing?

 

From the Red Thread's Page:

 

MOST INTERESTING INFO RECAP FROM "The Raven Apocalypse" Booklet

Huge thanks to Spimer for his translations:

- The cover mentions Rum and the "Sister outside the domain"... And says that Agasa reeks despite that Gosho says he's not the Boss.

- On the graph detailing relations between BO members, it says that Akai killed Scotch because "he knew his (Scotch's) real identy (a PSB spy)". It sounds like Scotch's cover got blown and Akai killed him but that could be an assumption by the publisher.

- This confirms what's been said for a while: Anokata's full name has appeared at some point in the manga before File 8 of Volume 53. That makes about 600 candidates excluding those that Gosho has denied they are Anokata.

 

 

Another thing in regards to Matsumoto... I think it's possible they will write him off. Kuroda is basically his replacement, and his VA passed away a couple years ago, unfortunately.

[Zeaos 3]

I believe it was before V53 P8 - I think it came up recently in the "Raven Apocalypse" booklet, but I think there is also an interview from a couple years ago saying the same thing?

 

From the Red Thread's Page:

 

MOST INTERESTING INFO RECAP FROM "The Raven Apocalypse" Booklet

Huge thanks to Spimer for his translations:

- The cover mentions Rum and the "Sister outside the domain"... And says that Agasa reeks despite that Gosho says he's not the Boss.

- On the graph detailing relations between BO members, it says that Akai killed Scotch because "he knew his (Scotch's) real identy (a PSB spy)". It sounds like Scotch's cover got blown and Akai killed him but that could be an assumption by the publisher.

- This confirms what's been said for a while: Anokata's full name has appeared at some point in the manga before File 8 of Volume 53. That makes about 600 candidates excluding those that Gosho has denied they are Anokata.

 

 

Another thing in regards to Matsumoto... I think it's possible they will write him off. Kuroda is basically his replacement, and his VA passed away a couple years ago, unfortunately.

 Does that imply that Agasa has some connection to the BO?

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

 Does that imply that Agasa has some connection to the BO?

 

 I highly doubt it, other than knowing Atsushi and Elena he might be acquaintance with others giving Conan more clues about them. But no deeper relations, unless Gosho-sama is going for an extravagant mind games and crazy schemes.. 

[DCFanatic123 0]

I doubt it, because then Vermouth and other BO members would not have to disguise themselves in order to infiltrate the MPD. Also in the movie he was kidnapped by the BO, though the movie non canon it still would not make sine to kidnap your own boss..  

Its non Canon though, so it could be possible.  That said, I don't think its him either.  He makes more sense as a Rum suspect though.

 

I actually am suspicious of a few people, ever since I learned the full name of the boss of the BO has already appeared.  Here are my suspects with some reasons why:

 

Yoko Okino:  She randomly comes to Kogoro, BEFORE he is famous, for help.  A top idol like that going to Kogoro first?  Unlikely.  It could be that she went there to investigate if Shinichi was there, assuming that this is after Sherry had checked out the house for the first time (Which is likely since it seems like they checked it out before he even told Agasa, since it was mentioned his primary school clothes were not missing the first time).  Additionally, she said she did not smoke, yet there is an ashtray in her room.  Given the fact the series was originally not thought to last long, its possible the boss was introduced that early.

 

A member of the Suzuki Family:  It explains the BO's seemingly limitless resources, why Jirokichi, despite planning to use the train to lure out Kaito Kid, was not on board (And supports why he told it to keep going, since it would keep Sherry trapped aboard), has all that power and influence, and many other things.  Though, Jirokichi could also be Rum if an accident/prostetic eye is ever confirmed.  He certainly can be described as a well built, old, and effeminent (via obsession with jewels) man.  This would support the boss being a member of the Suzuki Financial Group even more, such as Sonoko's mother.

 

Genta's Dad:  He is mentioned to own a liquor store.  Its a little too coincidental for comfort.  His name has also been mentioned and he has made an appearance.

 

Just a few of my suspects.  I would also be suspecting Agasa if it wasn't directly stated that he was not the Boss. (despite knowing the tune, convincing Shinichi not to go to the police, usually stating not to investigate things, and at one point tried to have his parents throw him off the case completely).

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

Its non Canon though, so it could be possible.  That said, I don't think its him either.  He makes more sense as a Rum suspect though.

 

I actually am suspicious of a few people, ever since I learned the full name of the boss of the BO has already appeared.  Here are my suspects with some reasons why:

 

Yoko Okino:  She randomly comes to Kogoro, BEFORE he is famous, for help.  A top idol like that going to Kogoro first?  Unlikely.  It could be that she went there to investigate if Shinichi was there, assuming that this is after Sherry had checked out the house for the first time (Which is likely since it seems like they checked it out before he even told Agasa, since it was mentioned his primary school clothes were not missing the first time).  Additionally, she said she did not smoke, yet there is an ashtray in her room.  Given the fact the series was originally not thought to last long, its possible the boss was introduced that early.

 

A member of the Suzuki Family:  It explains the BO's seemingly limitless resources, why Jirokichi, despite planning to use the train to lure out Kaito Kid, was not on board (And supports why he told it to keep going, since it would keep Sherry trapped aboard), has all that power and influence, and many other things.  Though, Jirokichi could also be Rum if an accident/prostetic eye is ever confirmed.  He certainly can be described as a well built, old, and effeminent (via obsession with jewels) man.  This would support the boss being a member of the Suzuki Financial Group even more, such as Sonoko's mother.

 

Genta's Dad:  He is mentioned to own a liquor store.  Its a little too coincidental for comfort.  His name has also been mentioned and he has made an appearance.

 

Just a few of my suspects.  I would also be suspecting Agasa if it wasn't directly stated that he was not the Boss. (despite knowing the tune, convincing Shinichi not to go to the police, usually stating not to investigate things, and at one point tried to have his parents throw him off the case completely).

About Yoko Okino, I think she was meant to be Vermouth until Gosho-sama changed his plans. Since if you think about it she is all too similar to Vermouth; Blonde, actress, somewhat saved by Conan etc..

 

On the Suzuki family, I believe there might be a connection. But not for the heads of the family; Jirokichi and Sonoko's father & her mother are not likely simply because they have seen Conan and would check on him and would eventually find out about Haibara which didn't happen yet..

 

Regarding Genta's dad; I sincerely doubt someone with only a liquor store at his disposal would have enough money to control and build a large criminal organization.

[cherry18 0]

Here's what I think (fyi, when I say he I dont mean to imply that he's a guy but rather being lazy and not wanting to type he/she everywhere)
Since its said that boss's name has appeared,  I support the theory that it could be one of the guest books name -
 

daikoku ooguru something

And/Or possibly a building name, brand -

like the fusae brand in the recent chapters - not saying that fusae campbell is   

 

I tried rereading the series, keeping an eye on any other characters with BO characteristics, eye twitchers or alcohol drinkers, brands, celeb names. But after a couple of chapters I got engrossed in the story that I forgot to keep track of that and dozens of chapters have gone by. 

 

As far as his age or appearance and his relationship with vermouth is considered, now I'm just shooting in the dark

Judging by vermouth's loyalty for the BO boss ran and shinichi (though she may twist their words to do her bidding, like going after haibara indirectly - seems like there is real good reason) it could be that she the boss's mother, sister, daughter, wife - as being his friend or lover is not that shocking or a reason to be kept a secret. Her reluctance to let haibara live and hatred for the drug seems the same as her secret relation with the boss.
Also, the boss has some sort of connection or understanding that vermouth won't betray him even if she strays. That speaks something about their relationship. And the reason for vermouth being so loyal is same as she is for shinichi or ran. so it's possible she considers/considered the boss as her ray of hope(like her own child)/saviour(sister,parent - adoptive or half or step)/benefactor(sister,parent - real, adoptive, half or step).And bourbon probably deduced it, meaning - shinichi can too and thus find who's the boss.
Now if I existed in the dc world, I could look more into vermouth and people around her before her debut or accidents of some kind and figure out who the boss is. Of course, that would be the last thing I do because gin would kill me or maybe vermouth herself like she did with jodie's family . But, atleast I would know the boss's identity before I die.

Also about haibara being surprised - 

It's said that if the real name of the organization could lead to the boss's identity. And some say that haibara might know the real name. If she does, the question is, why would the boss's identity shock her? I believe she is smart enough to deduce it. It could be that the relation between the real name and BO identity is -
1. something which is shinichi level smartness or even more - yusaku level - though judging how gosho said it doesnt seem likely
2. Its something that detective conan world doesnt know of, that the real world would related to it.. .wonder what that could be I did see once that the JFA logo is a three legged raven/crow - just in case if it could be relevant. Though I find the ooguru daikoku one earlier more interesting and possible.
3. or she doesnt know the BO real name - unlike what many people believe.

I would appreciate any extentions, critics. Afterall, once we eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

On 8/30/2011 at 1:09 AM, viva cmpunker said:

Well since Gin said that he got the boss's approval. That means if Kogoro is the boss he knew about them coming to snipe him so even if Conan didn't show up he still knows and he must have had a way to avoid getting shot.

Exactly; someone like that would always have an out.

On 8/30/2011 at 1:14 AM, Neo Balthazar said:

pls

tell me how would he dodge the sniper

and he never even saw their arrival near the agency

Perhaps he would have had another organization member interrupt or any number of other things. And how do we know Kogoro didn't notice their arrival? If Kogoro is indeed anokata, then clearly his obliviousness is just a facade and he is most likely hyper-aware of his surroundings (any person in such a position would have to be continually on the lookout; for betrayal, for law enforcement, for assassins sent by rival organizations, etc.), so he certainly would have noticed them.

On 8/31/2011 at 0:00 AM, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

If we start with the assumption the Black Org was pretending to try to kill Kogoro, their boss, in order to fool the FBI into thinking he was unrelated to them, then it would be weird for them not to follow through with the murder. It would create more suspicion than it is worth to fail in front of the FBI (even if they didn't know Akai was watching), especially since it's possible the FBI might try to shelter Kogoro or watch him in order to protect him or something like that.

But, even with a hyper-awareness, anokata would realize that he could not evade assassination attempts forever, therefore he would only have it going on as long as absolutely necessary to allay any suspicions. And, as that kind of person would be extremely intelligent and perceptive behind the facade, he would be able to guage the reactions of the persons involved and call off the hit once his goal has been accomplished.

Quote

Also Ai has met with Kogoro (first that comes to mind is the "Hunted Kogoro case" just before Red vs Black) and has had no "Black org reaction."

I am on episode 424 and I seem to remember at least one episode when Haibara failed to react to the presence of a Black Organization member. Additionally, anokata would be so deeply immersed into his cover and masking his presence, whether he is Kogoro or somebody else, that I would be surprised if she DID get a reaction to him.

Quote

Also if the boss was Kogoro, he should be really intelligent. That means he should have caught on to Conan's and Ai's situation, yet isn't helping the Black Org find them which doesn't make any sense, a la reasons why Agasa isn't the boss.

I am sure he HAS realized Conan and Haibara's situation. The reason he doesn't send the Organization to kill one or both of them is simple. They are too close to him, so their deaths might draw undue attention, but they are close enough that he can watch them himself and know when they become a real threat making their elimination essential.

 

Additional evidence:

-Kogoro's history with the police and friendship with numerous current officers, as well as his widespread regard among law enforcement officers since his increase in popularity as "Sleeping Kogoro" allow him to subtly keep tabs on any moves law enforcement may be planning against the Organization.

-Kogoro's idiocy and ineptitude are the perfect cover to keep even the smartest of opponents (such as Conan or Hattori) or those closest to him (such as Ran) from suspecting anything.

-An episode I watched recently had Kogoro's reaction to Conan's tranquilizer dart delayed by several seconds, suggesting he is developing a resistance to the tranquilizer. However, after this, he returned to being affected immediately, even though nothing was ever mentioned by either Conan or Agasa about switching to a different tranquilizer to overcome his growing immunity. This could, therefore, be interpreted as Kogoro feigning unconciousness and allowing Conan to make his deductions in order to maintain his act and to further observe Conan.

-Even Kogoro's frequent drinking, while part of his bumbling facade, could also be his own private in-joke, thumbing his nose at everyone as they fail to make the connection between his love of alcohol and the alcohol-based codenames of the Organization's members.

[Serinox 127]

18 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

-An episode I watched recently had Kogoro's reaction to Conan's tranquilizer dart delayed by several seconds, suggesting he is developing a resistance to the tranquilizer. However, after this, he returned to being affected immediately, even though nothing was ever mentioned by either Conan or Agasa about switching to a different tranquilizer to overcome his growing immunity. This could, therefore, be interpreted as Kogoro feigning unconciousness and allowing Conan to make his deductions in order to maintain his act and to further observe Conan.

You haven't gotten there yet, but there is a later point in the series where we get a case with extensive inner monologue/thoughts from Kogoro and nope, he straight up says there in thoughts that he has no idea why it happens, why he feels a stinging sensation before passing out, that he can really never remember anything and that he just accepts it because it works for him. That's the case that disproved any theory that Kogoro could be the Boss or BO for me, since he can fake his dialogue/reactions etc., but faking the inner thoughts would be massive cheating from Gosho (yeah, yeah, multiple personality disorder, schizophrenic etc, but Kogoro has never shown signs of something remotely like that, so just pulling that out of nowhere would still be cheating imo) and think of him what you want, he wouldn't go to such methods to fool the reader á la David Cage.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

2 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

Exactly; someone like that would always have an out.

Perhaps he would have had another organization member interrupt or any number of other things. And how do we know Kogoro didn't notice their arrival? If Kogoro is indeed anokata, then clearly his obliviousness is just a facade and he is most likely hyper-aware of his surroundings (any person in such a position would have to be continually on the lookout; for betrayal, for law enforcement, for assassins sent by rival organizations, etc.), so he certainly would have noticed them.

But, even with a hyper-awareness, anokata would realize that he could not evade assassination attempts forever, therefore he would only have it going on as long as absolutely necessary to allay any suspicions. And, as that kind of person would be extremely intelligent and perceptive behind the facade, he would be able to guage the reactions of the persons involved and call off the hit once his goal has been accomplished.

I am on episode 424 and I seem to remember at least one episode when Haibara failed to react to the presence of a Black Organization member. Additionally, anokata would be so deeply immersed into his cover and masking his presence, whether he is Kogoro or somebody else, that I would be surprised if she DID get a reaction to him.

I am sure he HAS realized Conan and Haibara's situation. The reason he doesn't send the Organization to kill one or both of them is simple. They are too close to him, so their deaths might draw undue attention, but they are close enough that he can watch them himself and know when they become a real threat making their elimination essential.

 

Additional evidence:

-Kogoro's history with the police and friendship with numerous current officers, as well as his widespread regard among law enforcement officers since his increase in popularity as "Sleeping Kogoro" allow him to subtly keep tabs on any moves law enforcement may be planning against the Organization.

-Kogoro's idiocy and ineptitude are the perfect cover to keep even the smartest of opponents (such as Conan or Hattori) or those closest to him (such as Ran) from suspecting anything.

-An episode I watched recently had Kogoro's reaction to Conan's tranquilizer dart delayed by several seconds, suggesting he is developing a resistance to the tranquilizer. However, after this, he returned to being affected immediately, even though nothing was ever mentioned by either Conan or Agasa about switching to a different tranquilizer to overcome his growing immunity. This could, therefore, be interpreted as Kogoro feigning unconciousness and allowing Conan to make his deductions in order to maintain his act and to further observe Conan.

-Even Kogoro's frequent drinking, while part of his bumbling facade, could also be his own private in-joke, thumbing his nose at everyone as they fail to make the connection between his love of alcohol and the alcohol-based codenames of the Organization's members.

 

First, Serinox's point:

14 minutes ago, Serinox said:

We get a case with extensive inner monologue/thoughts from Kogoro and nope, he straight up says there in thoughts that he has no idea why it happens, why he feels a stinging sensation before passing, that he can really never remember anything and that he just accepts it because it works for him. That's the case that disproved any theory that Kogoro could be the Boss or BO, since he can fake his dialogue/reactions etc., but faking the inner thoughts would be massive cheating from Gosho and think of him what you want, he wouldn't go to such methods to fool the reader á la David Cage.

 

Second—since you seem to be taking a look at the Kogoro is Anokata/The Boss of the BO theory, let me re-post something I posted on the DCTP forums, last year (covering both Kogoro, James Black, and just general thoughts on Anokata's identity):

 

"I won't say its impossible [that Kogoro is the boss], but my line of thinking is this—anyone in a position to know Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai could discover their secrets fairly easily—this is the Boss we're talking about, here... there's no reason to doubt their intellect. If Kogoro was the boss, he would've figured it out by now... and well before the Conan arc (Files 1–175/Episodes 1–128) had even gotten anywhere close to ending. Plus, it would make all his character development irrelevant (the cases he solved on his own, his attempts to get back together with Eri), his moral statements at certain points would make no sense, and he'd have all those moments of foolishness—for the Boss of the Black Organization to act like that... to be comedy relief... that'd really be something.

 

If the boss knows Shinichi/Conan, and especially if he/she had met/known him as a young adult, there's no way he/she wouldn't have figured it out—that's why Yukiko can't be the boss, either. If she—or any friend or family member of his—was, why is Shinichi/Conan still alive (especially with her knowing the truth about him being shrunk by APTX 4869)? 

 

(Read this next, hidden, part once you've gotten up to File 898/Episode 783):

 

 

This goes for James Black, as well, and I'm not even talking about him being the boss—I'm speaking of the theory that he's actually working for Black Organization. James is in an even better position to discover Shinichi's/Conan's secret than most—there's no way he'd hold back this information from the boss, if he was a loyal BO mole inside the FBI. People claim that he acted too stupid during Black Organization Vs. FBI/Black Impact and Fake Patient Case and Kir Transport Case/Clash of Red and Black for it to be unintentional, but I think that Gosho wanted to make the Organization threatening, so he had the FBI be outwitted by them. In Clash of Red and Black, Shinichi/Conan, Shuichi and Gin seem to be the only ones on top of things, on each side—everyone on both sides except them was fooled by the other side's plan. Gosho chose to make the FBI stupid, I think, instead of making the Black Organization smarter. Jodie suffered of similar intellect decay after she was revealed to be an FBI agent—the same goes for Andre, once he was revealed to not be a BO agent. I think the same goes for James, as well—he was introduced at a time when Gosho portrayed Shuichi as a BO assassin, so of course Shinichi/Conan made the Moriarty link. Given his likely role as Shuichi's/Subaru's contact in the FBI, since he's aware of the fake death plan (again, another sign he can't be with the BO—he would have simply informed the boss before Shuichi could even reach Raiha Pass, and Kir would've been killed—and no, he wouldn't have been exposed as a BO mole because he could simply feign ignorance about the fake death plan, and there were plenty of low-ranking FBI agents in the room when Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi revealed the truth about Kir) and since the earpiece Shuichi/Subaru wears to answer a call in Online Client/Detectives' Nocturne is the same as the one he uses in Dimensional Sniper to stay in contact with James (and he also provides a sniper rifle, as well; I know the movies aren't canon, but that movie effectively spoiled the manga before the manga, itself, did), he's likely not with the BO—a BO mole giving a FBI agent like Shuichi Akai such help would be patently unwise.

 

Sorry for the tangent—it could be that James is actually working for the BO (I'd get where someone was coming from if they suggested that he was financially supporting Masumi so he could use her against Shuichi/Subaru), but given what I've just mentioned, the odds of it, in my opinion, are quite low.

 

Gosho said in a January 13th, 2006 interview, during which Files 550–552 (Episode 462 and Episode 463) were being published, that the full name of the boss had appeared in the manga. Any character who has been introduced, either by mention or by appearance, after this interview can be ruled out. Essentially, we're looking for a name that appeared in the first 550 chapters. If Gosho's left any clues, he's been real subtle about it—but I can't imagine that he'd leave absolutely no clue."

 

Point is this—Kogoro's not the boss.

[Antiyonder 10]

4 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

Gosho said in a January 13th, 2006 interview, during which Files 550–552 (Episode 462 and Episode 463) were being published, that the full name of the boss had appeared in the manga. Any character who has been introduced, either by mention or by appearance, after this interview can be ruled out. Essentially, we're looking for a name that appeared in the first 550 chapters. If Gosho's left any clues, he's been real subtle about it—but I can't imagine that he'd leave absolutely no clue."

Or in terms of getting the collected material, that would be Volume 1-53 (save for the last chapter, 553), right?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

10 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

 

On 8/31/2011 at 1:00 AM, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

If we start with the assumption the Black Org was pretending to try to kill Kogoro, their boss, in order to fool the FBI into thinking he was unrelated to them, then it would be weird for them not to follow through with the murder. It would create more suspicion than it is worth to fail in front of the FBI (even if they didn't know Akai was watching), especially since it's possible the FBI might try to shelter Kogoro or watch him in order to protect him or something like that.

But, even with a hyper-awareness, anokata would realize that he could not evade assassination attempts forever, therefore he would only have it going on as long as absolutely necessary to allay any suspicions. And, as that kind of person would be extremely intelligent and perceptive behind the facade, he would be able to guage the reactions of the persons involved and call off the hit once his goal has been accomplished.

Quote

Also Ai has met with Kogoro (first that comes to mind is the "Hunted Kogoro case" just before Red vs Black) and has had no "Black org reaction."

I am on episode 424 and I seem to remember at least one episode when Haibara failed to react to the presence of a Black Organization member. Additionally, anokata would be so deeply immersed into his cover and masking his presence, whether he is Kogoro or somebody else, that I would be surprised if she DID get a reaction to him.

Quote

Also if the boss was Kogoro, he should be really intelligent. That means he should have caught on to Conan's and Ai's situation, yet isn't helping the Black Org find them which doesn't make any sense, a la reasons why Agasa isn't the boss.

I am sure he HAS realized Conan and Haibara's situation. The reason he doesn't send the Organization to kill one or both of them is simple. They are too close to him, so their deaths might draw undue attention, but they are close enough that he can watch them himself and know when they become a real threat making their elimination essential.

Your responses are incredibly weak because they fail to address why the boss would voluntarily putting himself in the line of fire, and how his actions make sense without omniscience. One of the things you don't know yet is that Vermouth has explained that the boss is "Cautious to a Fault". He is someone so careful that he is liable to break a bridge testing it to make sure it is safe to cross. Therefore an aggressive, fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants plot that would frame himself and put his life at risk based on an unstable scenario where one of his agents suddenly disappeared and Conan is doing who-knows-what seems entirely contrary to his nature as Vermouth explains it. There are far too many unknowns. How would the boss know Conan would reach him in time and the distractions would work? How was the boss planning to call off Gin after Conan had tried and failed to distract them - when going to the window to yell at Conan exposes him more? It doesn't make sense.

Finally, do you really think hypothetical bossKogoro is unable to figure out how to make Conan and Ai have an accident that couldn't be traced back to him when he knows Conan's behavior intimately and has the resources of a whole Organization? Wave one whiff of a murder mystery in front of Conan and he runs off, and the Detective Boys are sure to follow, meaning the boss can easily put Conan and Ai into any sort of deadly setup he may like. Also, why wait to eliminate them when they are already making friends with ex-members and the FBI? Kogoroboss should have shut Conan down after interfering with Gin and Vodka on the train case, the one where Kogoro stayed on the train that the two MiB were trying to blow up, which doesn't make any sense. The plotholes don't pass scrutiny.

 

Also, in addition to what everyone else has said, before Vermouth dropped that line about the boss's personality, most people didn't think Kogoro would be the boss because it would be out of character. Gosho doesn't go in for "bullshit twists". Gosho is a plain vanilla by-the-rules mystery designer as evidenced in all his regular cases and arc cases to date. He has never once has done something dirty to lie to the reader, such as have someone who wasn't a suspect who hadn't made prior appearances be the killer. Even the misleading thoughts and dialogue always have a true context that makes sense and explains the choice of words.

Furthermore, Gosho plays fair because he wants his readers to solve the mystery, unlike the writers who employ bullshit twists because they want "no one saw this coming" or to defeat the reader. (Even though a major ally being the mastermind is such an overdone trope that it is charcoal. It's also why everyone and their mom starts by suspecting the protagonist's friends.) When you get there, somewhere in chapters 550-552 (hammer nail snake case) Conan roughly says that people often times really are what they seem, and that it's impossible to live a lie without letting the cracks of who you really are show through. Therefore, it would be out of character for Gosho to set up such a major premise "If the Black Organization finds out Conan/Ai's true identity, they and everyone around them will be killed", and then defy it by having a boss who did know but didn't act because of some handwavy, sketchy reason.

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

The most compelling evidence against Kogoro is the fact that he has been oblivious in his internal monologues. With enough imagination, ideas could be come up with to explain everything else, but I agree that Aoyama-sensei wouldn't troll us with a deceitful internal monologue.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

7 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

With enough imagination, ideas could be come up with to explain everything else

 

That's called stretching/reaching for explanations. As in, it requires leaps to explain. Which means it's unlikely—incredibly unlikely. 

 

And really, the only purpose of Kogoro being the Boss would be just for the sake of having a twist—there'd be no point to it, beyond the twist.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

Hey guys, long time no see !!.. Anyways I think I have found a new edge on Anokata, it may be nothing much but what I found is too much of a coincidence. 

 

First i'd like to mention the the interview at which Gosho spoke of the purpose of the B: "

I: So then, the black orginization is full of mysteries. But, what sort of orginization are they, and what is their goal? World Conquest?

A: Well, the world....or rather, they want control of lot's of money. They're moving stealthily in the shadows...sort of like (Al) Capone did right? Or, sort of like the image of the bad guys in 007 or something...sitting there stroking a cat. It's probably best not to say too much." (Monthly Conan Newspaper 2014 (partial raw)
March (part 1) 2014 and April (part 2) 2014 edition of the Monthly Conan Newspaper
Translated by: meitanteikonan blogspot page) Copyrights belongs to their rightful owners.

 

See??!!.. Gosho does speak of Al Capone's similarities and mafia like organization, what's more Gosho speaks of the image of the 'bad guys' in 007 stroking a cat.. The 'bad guys' in question is the 007's villain Ernst Stavro Blofeld, Who's nickname is Number One, and Rum is mentioned as Number Two making Anokata as Number One. Furthermore in the diaries of Itakura Suguru's there is a mention of him hearing a sound of a cat while speaking to Vermouth, which somehow interrupts her making it seem as if someone important such as Anokata while holding a cat is approaching her making her cut the line. The use of cat is mentioned just like in the interview, Plus Blofeld is described as the great planner with formidable intelligence but without conscience, a perfect fitting description for Anokata. Also in his first disguise he adopts a long silver hair like that of Gin, and wears green eyed lenses to hide his distinctive real eyes something that Rum would do. In "You Only Live Twice" story published in 1964, Blofeld's hiding place is Japan. Not to mention his description of being a huge strongly built man is reminiscent of Tequila's description, And Blofeld's  Number 2 is Emilio Largo who covers one eye with a black eye patch. Something that also might have relations to Rum, Specter the organization in 007 is similar to BO in many ways from it's international ties to it's hierarchy to the mystery about their number 1. 

There are lots of other things that I wanted to write but I forgot as of the moment, anyways regarding this idea.. anyone have a comment??

[Serinox 127]

That's nice trivia, but ... we already knew pretty much all of that from the manga, i.e. what type of person the Boss is, the nature of the BO's operation, about the number two of the BO etc.

1 hour ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

anyways regarding this idea.. anyone have a comment??

Uhh ... I can't make out an "idea" from your post tbh. The Boss is similar to Blofeld from James Bond? Maybe, but it's not like Blofeld is really a unique villain apart from his iconic look in You Only Live Twice, his traits (intelligent head of an organisation who pulls all the strings in the background) are pretty much the definitive traits of the evil mastermind in most serious fiction. Was Rum eye trait inspired by Emilio Largo? Maybe, but it's not like Largo had any scheme involved with hiding his identity or anything with varying descriptions afaik, so apart from Gosho getting initial inspiration from James Bond, I don't think this has too much relevance.

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

I agree with Serinox. The parallels to Spectre are very interesting, but if there was any theory proposed about who Anokata is, I missed it. Unless you're suggesting that Anokata is Blofeld, in which case I must say that, while that would be interesting, I don't think there's any more chance of that being the truth than there is of it being James Moriarty. Good fanfic material, but I don't see Aoyama-sensei going that route.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

It's not about making Blofeld Anokata, its more as to find clues within 007 that might make a connection in BO. If Gosho has took inspiration heavily from this series and Moriarty's network, then it is likely that a new hint might show on. Also the main reason as to why I mentioned it, is the use of the cat in both series as ties to the main antagonist. Which could turn to be a hint in BO..

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 8:25 PM, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

That's called stretching/reaching for explanations. As in, it requires leaps to explain. Which means it's unlikely—incredibly unlikely. 

It's only stretching if the way it is done or explained is contrived or implausible. As I said, with enough imagination, a believable way could be found for Kogoro to be the boss. It's not called stretching or reaching, it's called creativity. However, now that I am aware of Kogoro having internal monologues in which he is oblivious to what is going on (which I did not know at the time I first suggested it), I have acknowledged that he is not Anokata. In other words, I said, "You're right, it's not him," and you still have to argue. Just wow.

 

On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 4:11 AM, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

It's not about making Blofeld Anokata, its more as to find clues within 007 that might make a connection in BO. If Gosho has took inspiration heavily from this series and Moriarty's network, then it is likely that a new hint might show on. Also the main reason as to why I mentioned it, is the use of the cat in both series as ties to the main antagonist. Which could turn to be a hint in BO..

Okay, so who are you suggesting this hint points to, then?

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

3 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

It's only stretching if the way it is done or explained is contrived or implausible. As I said, with enough imagination, a believable way could be found for Kogoro to be the boss. It's not called stretching or reaching, it's called creativity. However, now that I am aware of Kogoro having internal monologues in which he is oblivious to what is going on (which I did not know at the time I first suggested it), I have acknowledged that he is not Anokata. In other words, I said, "You're right, it's not him," and you still have to argue. Just wow.

 

My apologies for not more carefully crafting that post before I clicked "submit." It has led to misinterpretation, something I wish to avoid.

 

I did not mean to offend/insult you—if you feel offended/insulted, then I accept responsibility and apologize.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

4 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

Okay, so who are you suggesting this hint points to, then?

 

Then, it is a lead on finding suspects for Anokata. To shorten the list if you will, if Gosho had took inspirations from Blofeld and like mentioned in the interview he is similar to the image of a villain stroking a cat while sitting in a chair. Furthermore, Itakura's mention in his diary about hearing a cat in one of his conversations with Vermouth that leads her to cut the line. Then there is a strong possibility that Anokata is a cat lover, which might help us find suspects with links to both cats and crows if viable.  

[ShinRanTrash 3]

This might be a silly idea, but hear me out.

I'm not 100% sure if the fact saying he didn't think DC would last three months and the boss's name was still revealed that early.

 

From what I have gathered from Gosho's interviews, he has mentioned that the Boss' full name has appeared somewhere in the manga. If the fact rings true, even at the very beginning, when he mentioned in an interview, he didn't think it would last three months. If that's a huge possibility, why not start from the beginning and go three months into the manga and cut-off there, to see if there are in any suspects in there?

Although this possibility might be too iffy to try.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

 

11 hours ago, ShinRanTrash said:

This might be a silly idea, but hear me out.

I'm not 100% sure if the fact saying he didn't think DC would last three months and the boss's name was still revealed that early.

 

From what I have gathered from Gosho's interviews, he has mentioned that the Boss' full name has appeared somewhere in the manga. If the fact rings true, even at the very beginning, when he mentioned in an interview, he didn't think it would last three months. If that's a huge possibility, why not start from the beginning and go three months into the manga and cut-off there, to see if there are in any suspects in there?

Although this possibility might be too iffy to try.

 

Many years ago the German fandom started a project where they listed every character in the manga, even background ones, up until that interview. It didn't get people's names in guestbooks or on street signs / whatever unfortunately. I snagged a copy of the excel doc and started going through name by name to rule out characters for being dead, in jail, acting extremely stupid, etc. There are relatively few good suspects early on. Here are all the ones prior to chapter 115 or so that are still in my technically valid category (and not all have full names listed mind). If/when there is enough demand I can make the doc available for download. I never finished going through all the cases either. Seems like it would be a good group project.

 

Volume 1    Case 1    Aiko
Volume 3    Case 7    Kitaro Hatamoto
Volume 3    Case 7    Mariko Hatamoto
Volume 3    Case 7    Akie Hatamoto
Volume 3    Case 7    Kenji Suzuki
Volume 3    Case 8    Maki Okuda
Volume 3    Case 8    Hiroshi Wada
Volume 3    Case 8    Mr. Kishida
Volume 4    Case 9    Iijima
Volume 5    Case 12    Masaru Ota
Volume 5    Case 12    Hiroki Sumiya
Volume 5    Case 12    Ayako Suzuki
Volume 5    Case 13    Mieko Shibazaki
Volume 5    Case 13    Katsumi Yamada
Volume 5    Case 13    Go Sumi
Volume 6    Case 14    Masao
Volume 6    Case 15    Ineko Maru
Volume 7    Case 17    Yamada
Volume 7    Case 18    Kenta
Volume 7    Case 18    Masato Shimizu
Volume 7    Case 18    Reiko Kuroiwa
Volume 7    Case 18    Shuichi Murasawa
Volume 7    Case 19    Ramus
Volume 8    Case 20    Shiro Konno
Volume 8    Case 20    Genichiro Kaneshiro
Volume 8    Case 20    Shizue Hayashi
Volume 8    Case 21    Kaori
Volume 8    Case 21    Yamada
Volume 8    Case 21    Sato
Volume 8    Case 21    Kazumi Takenaka
Volume 8    Case 21    Atsushi Umemiya
Volume 9    Case 23    Yukio Ayashiro
Volume 9    Case 23    June Oomura
                                                                                                

[sleepymoe96 0]

Sorry if this theory was stated before,but i have read a theory that the boss might be Heizo Hattori , he first appeared in volume 10 , his interpretation was made due to the fact that:

--Heizo is really smart and cunning -judging by the file where he hit his own son to solve the case- and keeps a low profile somehow

--His position as he is the highest ranking officer at the Osaka Prefectural Police Headquarters

--He doesn't want his son to be a detective,maybe because he doesn't want him to get involve in catching the BO

 --his name, which happens to be the same as Heizo Hasegawa is the main protagonist of "Onihei Hankachō" , he was an ALCOHOL ADDICT , he was also called the "villain" -just like vermouth once described him- he used to solve difficult crimes by hiring criminals as informants , so basically he hire criminals to help him achieve an ethical goal - solving the crime- in an unethical way which i found it so similar to the boss , as we all know the BO goal is to create an non aging drug which i believe is a really good thing but the use unethical ways to achieve their goal  by hiring criminals to help him.

Finally, A photograph of Heizo Hasegawa appeared at the "Gosho Aoyoma's Mystery Library" page from volume 15

 

 

[detectiveRJB 15]

Anokata not know shinichi is conan.

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

Just a warning, this post might be a little long.

 

First, a response to detectiveRJB.

On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 11:16 AM, detectiveRJB said:

Anokata not know shinichi is conan.

We don't know that for sure. All we know is that the Organization as a whole doesn't know Conan's identity. It is entirely possible that Anokata does know and has decided not to tell all of his/her subordinates.

As for who Anokata is, I came up with an interesting theory a while back that addresses the identities of both Anokata and Rum. I am going to copy and edit my post from the discussion about rum on the manga forum to explain my theory. If anyone is curious about the Rum side of the theory, then feel free to go check out that post (I believe it was October 27th or 28th of last year).

First, let me explain where the idea came from. It was the combination of a few things, actually. The first thing that started the genesis of this theory was how people made references back to the development of the Bourbon arc; specifically, the parallels to Gundam. The next thing that helped my mind develop this idea was the repeated mention of the appearance of Lum and whether it was what Aoyama-sensei was referring to with the Animal Crossing hint that Rum had appeared. The final element that spawned this theory was a single mention of the fake name Akai used while undercover with the Organization, Moroboshi Dai.

 

The idea? Well, if analyzing Gundam turned up significant clues pointing towards Bourbon, maybe analyzing another anime could point us toward Rum. What anime? Urusei Yatsura!

 

A quick rundown for anyone not familiar with UY. Basically, Moroboshi Ataru was a normal guy who was going out with a girl named Shinobu until aliens showed up and he was chosen at random to be the Earth's champion in a game (basically tag) that would decide the fate of the world. His opponent was Lum, daughter of the alien leader. He won the game, and Lum became obsessively infatuated with him, leading to various hilarity and crazy situations, as well as the first and funniest anime love triangle I ever saw.

 

Now, the Black Organization is clearly the parallel to the the alien invaders in this theory. So how do we figure out who represents the leader? By analyzing the connection to other characters. The leader is the father of Lum, so Anokata (in my theory) is one of the parents of Rum. To figure out Rum's identity, we need to dig deeper. Lum is in love with Moroboshi Ataru. Moroboshi...as in Moroboshi Dai, also known as Akai Shuichi. So, if we accept Akai as Ataru, then we need to look at his love interests to figure out who Rum/Lum is. We know that, before going undercover with the Organization, Akai was involved with Jodie Starling, but with the Organization as the analog for the aliens, that would make Jodie-sensei a parallel to Shinobu (Ataru's girlfriend before he became involved with the aliens. Lum/Rum would be a love interest within the Organization/aliens, meaning Miyano Akemi (for the full explanation of the Akemi=Rum theory, please see the aforementioned post in the manga forum on the discussion about Rum, I will briefly cover some key points here as they align with this theory, but will mostly be addressing the idea of one of the Miyano parents as Anokata). 

 

"But wait! The Miyanos are dead!" you say?
All we know for sure about the Miyano parents is that they were researching a mysterious drug for the Organization. The true purpose of this drug is unknown to every person we've heard discuss it, including Shiho, who continued the research after her parents were (supposedly) killed in a fire in their lab. Now, how could the true purpose of this drug remained secret for so long? Clearly the Organization has no qualms about killing, so i suspect that they probably subscribe to the old say, "three can keep a secret if two of them are dead," but that only explains so much. Isn't it easier to keep a secret by simply not telling anyone? That's the kind Of person I think Anokata is. Clearly, in order to run such an extensive crime syndicate as the Black Organization, you have to be highly intelligent, like a scientist perhaps. Someone with that level of intelligence would have no difficulty learning the pharmaceutical skills necessary to develop a new drug. And, if the purpose of that drug was not to be known, even to other members of the Organization, such a calculating person would not trust anyone but themselves to work on it. Of course, I suspect that not even all Of the Organisation's members knew the true identity of the big boss, let alone that the boss was personally one of the scientists working on this mystery drug.

 

Allow me to explain the rest by unfolding the series of events.

 

Anokata was working on the drug with her/his spouse (I am leaning more towards Elena as Anokata for reasons that may or may not be clear upon reading this, so the rest of this will be worded accordingly, but it could possibly be Atsushi). At some point, Atsushi started having second thoughts about their research, at which point he became a liability. Rather than risking that he might sabotage the project or turn the Organization over to law enforcement, Elena realized he had to be eliminated, so she staged the fire in the lab, stepping into the shawdos as Anokata full time and passing the research on to the only one she trusted with it; one of her own children. Of the two children, it was the younger, Shiho, who was chosen to succeed them in their research (presumably having shown some scientific aptitude at an early age). But the eldest child of such an important family would not be a mere grunt within the Organization. Just as Shiho undoubtedly received scientific training from an early age, Akemi would certainly have been taught other skills that would be useful to the Organization. After the "death" of the parents, Miyano Shiho was continuing research on the same mysterious drug they were working on, but all she had come up with was an untraceable poison, which she herself said was not the intended purpose of APTX-4869. I'm fairly certain that Haibara has also admitted she knew little of what went on in the Organization beyond the confines of her lab, mostly just what her sister told her. Now, with Shiho's research at a standstill, Elena came up with a plan to motivate her. What if her beloved older sister was in danger and her life depended on the completion of APTX-4869? But even that didn't get the desired results, so they had to go one step further, both to demonstrate that their threats were not empty and to try to scare Shiho into making APTX-4869 into what it was meant to be, and Miyano Akemi had to die. It was at that point that the plan was set up for the robbery case. Akemi would commit the robbery with a recruited team, kill them, and in turn be "killed" by Gin. The robbery went off as planned, but then one of the recruits betrayed Akemi and disappeared with the money before she could kill him. In disguise, she hired Kogoro to find him. After recovering the money, she didn't count on the fact that Conan would be able to track her, so the scene to fake her death was modified on the fly.

 

This scenario also answers a few questions I have had about things in the course of the series. It explains why Gin is so ready to believe Akai Shuichi is still alive, because he has carried out a faked death very similar to Akai's. It would explain why Gin didn't immediately kill Shiho rather than just handcuffing her and leaving, thus enabling her to escape (you don't just kill the boss' daughter in a criminal organization, you check with the boss first or you might end up dead as well). As for why Akemi/Rum did nothing with the information that Conan admitted to her that he was Kudo Shinichi as she was "dying," I'm sure she reported it directly to Anokata once she woke up. Rather than killing him outright, I imagine Elena's scientific curiosity was piqued and she probably gave Akemi instructions to observe him. At that point, they may not have been certain that his de-aging was caused by the APTX-4869, or (more likely) they wanted to see if there were any other effects on APTX-4869's victims that suffer the de-aging side effect before killing him. When Shiho disappeared, Elena and Akemi would have figured out how it happened and suspected she might have gone to Conan for help, which is why the Organization was looking for her in Beika specifically and why Bourbon was sent to build an association with Kogoro, with whom Conan is staying. Yet, even after "Shiho's" "death" on the Bell Tree Express, Haibara still showed up, so even though none of the other Organization members knew who she really was, her presence probably would have been reported. So finally, Akemi decided to take action and disguised herself as a new teacher's aide at Conan and Haibara's elementary school, Wakasa Rumi, to get close and do what needs to be done. She is now simply waiting for the call from her mother to kill or capture Haibara and/or Conan.

 

I was going to add a little bit more, but I think that covers the key points well enough. Plus, there are some ideas related to this that are still brewing in my mind, so I can't fully cover everything as even I haven't figured out ALL the details yet.

 

So, that is my new theory. I have tried to present it with a well thought out defense, and to answer the biggest questions it raises, but if anyone has anything to counter it, or to add to it, I am still open to ideas, so by all means let me know! I look forward to seeing everyone's responses to this theory!