Movie 20: The Darkest Nightmare

[Hanfois 5]

I don't agree with that logic. Why would they reveal the voice actor just because it's a new character? It would be just as bad if they ruined the Rum reveal because they used the same voice actor as the new character, who is his true identity. I think it was good of them to hide the voice overall, I mean I already think it's a big step for them to make Rum have dialogues in the movie in general, since his speech patterns should fit his true identity and it might be a big help in revealing his gender.

I understand your point,but there is a 1 year time gap between manga and Anime,so by the time we reach the current chapter in the anime we will have already known RUM's identity. For me it's the same because audience can't recognize the new voice actor as well as a computer voice.

As for the gender reveal,i guess we already have a huge suspect list so making it male only/female only doesn't make it easier to know RUM's identity

[Heliotropic 139]

Of the Rum "suspects" we have, there aren't really any ones that fit... I think it's a rather bold statement to declare it as confirmation that Rum is a pre-existing character because they hid their voice. In fact, I'd say the movie offers up info to the contrary.

 

Revealing their seiyuu would have been a terrible decision regardless of whether Rum was new or old. It would have flat out ruined the mystery in general. They were right in the manner Rum was "shown/involved"

 

I already think it's strange that they decided to put Rum in the movie, even if all background because it's so early... but I understand why when it comes to hyping up the movie. Heterochromatic woman is a prime example of this. They utilized "Rum" and the fact that they have a prosthetic eye to their advantage (and I know they aren't the same thing, but you'd be surprised at how many people still think she's going to turn out to be Rum, or at the very least question it). 

 

Even the manga, to me seems like it's forcefully trying to create Rum suspects to create a mystery. Kansuke initially used as something to look for... Kuroda obvious red herring, Mystery Girl now being considered a "suspect"...

 

Even 1 year later, we may still not know Rum's identity in the manga. I think with a movie "reveal" like 18, this was done simply because we had plenty of information to piece together Okiya=Akai in both the anime and the manga. It did not matter at that point. 

At this point, there's still not much to go in in the manga, especially the anime... so I think taking anything as evidence (especially something that can hardly be regarded as any form of proof) in a movie not connected to the manga is a bit presumptuous.

 

I myself am still betting on a new character. There's really no reason for me to think otherwise at this point.

 

Here's some major spoilers from the Red Thread's page

(Do not open - If you wish to remain unspoiled)

Our friend Rem wached the movie and kindly shared some insight. Check out her impressions on the movie highlights!

-it's more an action story than a Detective one
-it doesn't say anything that we didn't know about BO or Rum or FBI.
-they play around Rum's identity, making you believe that the new lady might be Rum
-the protagonist, the heterochromia lady, was part of the Black Organizzazion, and calls Ai "Sherry". Everyone wants to kill her because she tried to steal all the FBI and BO identities from a database.
- I can easily say that the true focus of the movie was the angst between Akai and Amuro, but at the end of the movie nothing is set between those two. Nothing changed even when Akai saves Amuro's life from Gin's gun. 
- actually the all call for FBI team and BO is pretty pointless. FBI does nothing, BO (Gin, Vodka, Chinti...) appears just to kill random people around the world and try to make a ferris wheel explode in the new aquarium, because inside that there is the Lady. But apart from that, is just Vermont being cool as usual trying to sneak the Lady and figure out why she acts differently (amnesia)
-Conan saves the day with a giant soccer ball as airbag (worst thing ever)
-There are a lot of Conan/Ai scenes, due to the fact that she "sensed" the organizazion and wants to protect Conan from being reckless 
-The "Shinichi" line from the trailer is not in the movie. Ran does call Shinichi, but with her phone in a very easy moment for her, no dramatic shinran. 
-the team Akai/Conan/Amuro works really well on screen, and I hope we can see more of them. 
-the Lady dies in the end, due to combat injuries. But she was really fond of the DetectiveBoys, that helped her when she couldn't remember anything. Her last thought is for them.
- Oh, and yes, Matsuda reference. Apparently him and Amuro were friends and he remembers him when he is trying to de-activate the bomb inside the ferris wheel
- The scene where Gin finds out about Amuro and Kir: The scene is very subtle, because Gin is suspicious, but has no evident proofs and at the end of the movie Kir is still with the BO.
The scene is resolved by Akai who helps Amuro escape.
- The Amuro/Akai fight: Nobody prevails, but it's Amuro who really wants to fight. Akai plays cool
- Rum doesn't appear: Vermouth receives a call from them by the end titles
- Movie 21 teaser: The voice is kansai accent. [The Red Thread note: this pretty much confirms it being Hattori]

[Hanfois 5]

There could be so many reasons to make RUM make a "voice" call in this movie not a "text" message like many have predicted,the most clear reason for me is to tell us that he's already appeared.

I don't find this information similar to what we got in the case of Movie 18 which was a direct confirmation of Okiya's identity.This case is different and it doesn't affect the manga ,as you still have got a long list of pre-existing characters being suspects

[Heliotropic 139]

I don't really see the correlation.

It's essentially the same thing given their voice was disguised.

Movie 20 basically had Rum to further hype the movie, and the main guest character was even built around having "odd eyes"

and considered a Rum suspect throughout the movie.

 

I just brought up the M18 thing since I agree about it being different this time around, different in a way that they wouldn't really give any hints to Rum's identity. Even the manga doesn't have much to really go on.

 

While I'm pretty adamant on this issue, I'd really need to see the movie myself to really get a proper impression, and that'll be awhile yet.

Before the spoilers, I had included the possibility that they might do something to give some sort of clues on Rum's identity, and I'm glad they didn't. That would have been a really bad decision.

[Hanfois 5]

I don't really see the correlation.

It's essentially the same thing given their voice was disguised.

Movie 20 basically had Rum to further hype the movie, and the main guest character was even built around having "odd eyes"

and considered a Rum suspect throughout the movie.

 

I just brought up the M18 thing since I agree about it being different this time around, different in a way that they wouldn't really give any hints to Rum's identity. Even the manga doesn't have much to really go on.

 

While I'm pretty adamant on this issue, I'd really need to see the movie myself to really get a proper impression, and that'll be awhile yet.

Before the spoilers, I had included the possibility that they might do something to give some sort of clues on Rum's identity, and I'm glad they didn't. That would have been a really bad decision.

My point is,the fact that they have already made a contract with a voice actor to do RUM's role,it's not their habit to make a random voice actor do a major character role temporarily ,they choose VA's carefully base on the personality of each character

You cannot give a voice actor a role of a new character that haven't even appeared in the manga,Their physical appearance and personality are important for the VA

Thus ,either RUM is an pre-existing character ,or let's assume it's a new character that have been drawn and designed by Gosho to be revealed within the next few chapters.

But again there is a question,why go through all of this and make a contract with a VA to say a single line in a movie,while you can replace them with a "text message" or a "dark silouhette" and by this Gosho will have his promise kept that "RUM will be in the movie"

[Heliotropic 139]

 

My point is,the fact that they have already made a contract with a voice actor to do RUM's role,it's not their habit to make a random voice actor do a major character role temporarily ,they choose VA's carefully base on the personality of each character

You cannot give a voice actor a role of a new character that haven't even appeared in the manga,Their physical appearance and personality are important for the VA

 

The voice was disguised, why do they have to contract a voice actor for Rum's role... We don't really know how it sounded in the first place, but from the sounds of the spoilers it doesn't sound like they were in any way discernible for them to require casting someone specific for this role, nor did they really do all that much.

 

If Gosho clued in the producer/director about certain things, that could also apply on how to handle a character like Rum.

Spoilers specifically mentioned Rum's VA not being listed in the casting info either.

 

But again there is a question,why go through all of this and make a contract with a VA to say a single line in a movie,while you can replace them with a "text message" or a "dark silouhette" and by this Gosho will have his promise kept that "RUM will be in the movie"

 

He kept his "promise" either way though. He never said in which manner they'd be present, just that it'd be the real Rum. This could apply to a silhouette, or a text message as well. Rum was mostly a background role, as most predicted. I really don't follow the logic that because of how they handled it, Rum must now be a pre-existing character. 

 

 

I get your point, but I just think it's a bit presumptuous to come to this conclusion.

[EthanHunter 7]

Wait I don't get it, when did the say that they made a contract with a VA for Rum's role?

The obvious reason they masked his voice was to not let us know of his gender (I say his just to not keep typing his/her). Therefore, this was in no way a confirmation that Rum has already appeared.

However, I do believe that this confirmed that the boss is someone who is a recurring character and also present in the movie, OR there is someone among the recurring characters(non-BO) who knows who the boss is and perhaps is an important member of the BO him/herself. My guess is that the person would be the boss him/herself, not just related to the boss. The fact that Gosho revealed the boss' identity confirms this I believe.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

By the way heliotropic, the anonymous user who added the info about Rum's voice on the computer being female is known for digging up unreliable info. It might be true but I haven't seen the source so I removed the statement for the time being.

-edit to remove unneeded complaining-

[Heliotropic 139]

By the way heliotropic, the anonymous user who added the info about Rum's voice on the computer being female is known for digging up unreliable info. It might be true but I haven't seen the source so I removed the statement for the time being.

 

 

Ahh, thanks for the clarification! I've been keeping a pretty good eye on 2ch and some other spoilers and haven't really seen much of a mention of this so it kinda struck me as odd... 

Don't see too much of a reason to really doubt it either, but either way, if it was done through some sort of voice-changer, I don't think it matters what they sounded like.

 

Revisited a new thread on 2ch, and there is some mention of Rum sounding "feminine" or having a "feminine" accent I guess? http://nozomi.2ch.sc/test/read.cgi/ymag/1460473348/0-

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

We have no idea if Rum's VA has been picked at this point, and I personally doubt it has. My guess is the voice is a filler VA (Atsuko Tanaka?).

My reasons for guessing why Rum has no VA yet and the voice is filler are because Rum (or Asaka) hasn't had any speaking roles in the manga yet, which means it will be a year at minimum before a VA is needed.

[Hanfois 5]

We have no idea if Rum's VA has been picked at this point, and I personally doubt it has. My guess is the voice is a filler VA (Atsuko Tanaka?).

My reasons for guessing why Rum has no VA yet and the voice is filler are because Rum (or Asaka) hasn't had any speaking roles in the manga yet, which means it will be a year at minimum before a VA is needed.

BTW the computer voice is not feminine

and noone confirmed that Asaca is Rum

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

BTW the computer voice is not feminine

and noone confirmed that Asaca is Rum

What? I never said either of those things were confirmed. I brought up the issue since someone claimed Rum's voice was female on the wiki, and I didn't think it was probable. I offered the suggestion that Atsuko Tanaka (Mary's VA) voiced the lines because she is Conan's current flight of fancy suspect and Tanaka has a low voice and can sound semi-gender neutral (which would then be heavily modified by audio processing).

[Heliotropic 139]

BTW the computer voice is not feminine

 

Regardless of whether it is or isn't, how can we really say for certain? Most of us are going off of rather vague spoilers, and some of the more detailed summaries haven't really laid out any specifics.

There are some spoilers on 2ch which certainly seem to indicate that Rum's voice (not sure if it was referring to it being through a computer/voice-changer) was feminine or that it belonged to a woman... but Google translate only goes so far.

 

Someone on edited the DCW wiki to say this "Rum doesn't appear in movie 20 directly: - Flashback shows Rum speaking through a computer in a woman's voice. - Vermouth receives a call from him/her by the end titles" - but no source was given...

 

I'll stand by what I said over on the sub-reddit... Regardless of how Rum's voice sounded, it was done through some type of guise, so I don't think it really matters or should be taken as some type of evidence. As far as I'm concerned it's not an indication of their voice, or even how they may talk. 

 

Summary of M20 (Heavy Spoilers)

Part 1

Part 2:

[Hanfois 5]

Summary of M20 (Heavy Spoilers)

Part 1

Part 2:

i have already read these,nothing about RUM's voice

My understanding to the computer voice thing is that it's the same as the high-pitched voice they usually use in the anime for any culprit before they are revealed

After all we still need to watch the movie to know how the setting was.

[Heliotropic 139]

i have already read these,nothing about RUM's voice

My understanding to the computer voice thing is that it's the same as the high-pitched voice they usually use in the anime for any culprit before they are revealed

After all we still need to watch the movie to know how the setting was.

 

I was just linking them for other people, it was completely unrelated.

 

It was mentioned on 2ch, or Google translates some of it out to suggest that Rum has a feminine accent or the voice belongs to a woman. I don't know if it was specifically referring to a "computer-voice", but yea, I'm in agreement with you on that one.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

About Rum's voice—couldn't fans do some audio editing and then compare the unaltered voice to every new voice actor in DC, from here on in?

 

Of course, Rum could've been voiced in Movie 20 by someone who will not go on to voice the character Rum turns out to be.

[Hanfois 5]

About Rum's voice—couldn't fans do some audio editing and then compare the unaltered voice to every new voice actor in DC, from here on in?

 

Of course, Rum could've been voiced in Movie 20 by someone who will not go on to voice the character Rum turns out to be.

It's possible,but not their habit

Now we should wait to watch the movie to get an answer to the uestion "why RUM used thier voice",they could simply deliver  their message through  text or any other way. The setting might explain this as well

[EthanHunter 7]

Of course, Rum could've been voiced in Movie 20 by someone who will not go on to voice the character Rum turns out to be.

Yes I am quite sure that's true, as Chek pointed out it should definitely be at least a year(probably much more) until Rum gets to speak in the anime, so it's far too early to choose someone... I believe Gosho would take his time instead. 

 

Now we should wait to watch the movie to get an answer to the uestion "why RUM used thier voice",they could simply deliver  their message through  text or any other way. The setting might explain this as well

I honestly think there isn't any reason for that really... I just believe it was to create hype, and sure as a fan I found that it was a much better choice than having a mail by Rum shown. Besides it's really not any kind of a clue, the voice is well masked and probably by a random voice actor, not even necessarily of the same gender as Rum so I find nothing wrong with it.

[Hanfois 5]

Yes I am quite sure that's true, as Chek pointed out it should definitely be at least a year(probably much more) until Rum gets to speak in the anime, so it's far too early to choose someone... I believe Gosho would take his time instead. 

That's correct only if you believe that RUM is a new character.Which is not my opinion.

I personally believe that RUM is either a woman (we already have plenty of suspicious & unused female characters),or a feminine man.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

That's correct only if you believe that RUM is a new character.Which is not my opinion.

I personally believe that RUM is either a woman (we already have plenty of suspicious & unused female characters),or a feminine man.

 

Which one?

 

I wonder what is your opinion on whether Gosho revealing the Boss' identity to the director and producer of movie 20 is some sort of a clue as I mentioned in the movie 20 thread. If you want you can reply in the thread, thanks a lot!

Probably motive and behavior related. It is easy to think the reason is a character the anime directors have to be careful to tiptoe around (Shiho and Vermouth would be my guess), but the biggest change this movie makes to the anime canon about the BO is that it is now a firmly global organization with incredible reach. One problem is that Gosho doesn't want the anime directors to portray the Organization as a typical secretive power and profit-motivated mafia, like most such global organizations are. The boss has a particular mission and he/she only needs just enough money and power and growth to sustain progress. By revealing the boss and his motive, Gosho is likely aiming to keep the anime directors from portraying behavior inconsistent with that motive.

Also, I think it isn't wise to assume that the current version of Movie 20 is the reason Gosho told the anime directors the boss's id. My understanding is that the storyline of Movie 20 went through several pretty dramatic drafts and it is possible that one or more of those drafts had something incompatible. Gosho figured it would be faster to explain why the events were a no-go and let the directors sort it out for themselves rather than be forced to review every story revision for problems.

[Hanfois 5]

 

Which one?

for the suspicious Mary

For the unused characters there are so many but the most popular suspects :Yonehara & Elena

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

for the suspicious Mary

For the unused characters there are so many but the most popular suspects :Yonehara & Elena

 

Mary is as much of a Rum red herring as Hyoue is.

 

Sakurako way too young to be Rum, and I don't think Gosho's going to have Rum replace her like Vermouth replaced Tomoaki—instead, I think, she's going to be a character connected to Rum. Maybe she'll end up employed by Rum, or was once employed by Rum.

 

As for Elena, if she was Rum, would she really tell Rei/Tooru what she told him in that flashback from The Tense Tea Party (888–890/770–771) about how he shouldn't be fighting. Then there's the question of her apparent death in that fire—why would she fake it? Why didn't she ensure that Akemi was made into an assassin who would've become a codenamed member?

[Hanfois 5]

Mary is as much of a Rum red herring as Hyoue is.

 

Sakurako way too young to be Rum, and I don't think Gosho's going to have Rum replace her like Vermouth replaced Tomoaki—instead, I think, she's going to be a character connected to Rum. Maybe she'll end up employed by Rum, or was once employed by Rum.

 

As for Elena, if she was Rum, would she really tell Rei/Tooru what she told him in that flashback from The Tense Tea Party (888–890/770–771) about how he shouldn't be fighting. Then there's the question of her apparent death in that fire—why would she fake it? Why didn't she ensure that Akemi was made into an assassin who would've become a codenamed member?

I am not even supporting the theory that RUM is a female.Just answering his uestion about the possible existing characters that could turn to be RUM.

For Yonehara she could possibly have stopped aging as Vermouth.But i am not supporting that .

For Elena everything is possible,even Vermouth sometimes sounds wierd, and the only one who could accept akemi into the BO is anokata ,maybe she couldn't gain their trust eventhough RUM is her mother. again i am not supporting this,but just telling that it's possible.

For more female suspects we have got Fusae,Minerva,etc but these are just minor recurring characters who could possibly be RUM.

I've already discussed before who i believe is RUM (Koumei)

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I am not even supporting the theory that RUM is a female.Just answering his uestion about the possible existing characters that could turn to be RUM.

And I was just responding to your post—I held no assumptions, either way.

 

Same goes for my response to this:

For more female suspects we have got Fusae,Minerva,etc but these are just minor recurring characters who could possibly be RUM.

We don't know if Vermouth is fully American, or if she has a Japanese parent, like Akemi and Shiho did—her being involved in the Japanese-based BO would make more sense (IMO) if she had a Japanese parent/Japanese heritage. Minerva is half-British and half-German—plus, the characters in Holmes' Revelation strike me as one-timers, who may not even be mentioned again, outside of situations where Holmes' Revelation is referenced. She's also too young to be Rum.

 

Fusae is old enough, but given that Gosho hinted that she and Billy were in the FBI, her odds of being in the BO go down immediately (yes, Gosho said we can ignore them in an interview, but that, in itself, means they're likely not to play a major role, going forward, and I doubt that Gosho would turn Shuichi's subordinate into Rum). 

 

I've already discussed before who i believe is RUM (Koumei)

Hopefully, next Nagano case, Shiho/Ai will appear... that should help to make things clearer, in regards to this possibility.

[Guest]

Fusae is old enough, but given that Gosho hinted that she and Billy were in the FBI,

 

When was this??