Movie 20: The Darkest Nightmare

[MeiTanteixX 184]

No, we can't be sure.

 

Nevertheless, as the son of someone who's likely on Yusaku's mental level...

while we're at it, I'd really like to see them meet, the fathers of the east/west dou! ^^

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

while we're at it, I'd really like to see them meet, the fathers of the east/west dou! ^^

 

That is overdue.

[Hanfois 5]

I really hope they release the next trailer early in december

along with major plot progress chapter in manga

I have a strong feeling that the main theme track for this movie will be  similar to movie 18's theme 

[Heliotropic 139]

I really hope they release the next trailer early in december

along with major plot progress chapter in manga

I have a strong feeling that the main theme track for this movie will be  similar to movie 18's theme 

 

Isn't the official title reveal on December 2nd? I think the trailer would probably follow soon after that.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Isn't the official title reveal on December 2nd? I think the trailer would probably follow soon after that.

If not the same day. In fact, isn't that what's happening? Or not?

[Heliotropic 139]

If not the same day. In fact, isn't that what's happening? Or not?

 

Probably.

 

I don't think it said anything about a trailer, but it'd be pretty safe to assume that they'd release the trailer once they announce the title of the movie, and if it doesn't come out on the 2nd, it definitely won't be far behind.

 

We'll probably know the title a couple days early if they are going to announce it in Shonen Sunday. Maybe on the 28th... 

[Heliotropic 139]

So it seems like we'll be getting the Movie 20 trailer next weekend. Some spoilers have already hit 2ch, but can't be confirmed for accuracy. Given we've been getting text spoilers every Saturday, and they've been fairly consistent, I doubt they are fake. (Apologize for the double post, though it has been 2 weeks)

 

Movie 20 Title:

純黒の悪夢 (じゅんこくのナイトメア) 

Google translate to Pure Black of Nightmare?

 

Text Spoilers from .2ch (Can't be confirmed for accuracy just yet)

20発の弾丸 
6発目　青山剛昌先生イラストポスター+サブタイトル初公開!! 
そして超限定!!!!!黒(ブラック)チラシも大公開！ 

7発目　極秘映像激入手!!!! 

世界各地で謎の暗殺事件発生!!警察に侵入したスパイと関係が!? 
来週末より公開される第20弾の極秘映像には、世界各地で起きる暗殺事件、 
そして日本警察にスパイが侵入し機密データにアクセスするシーンが!! 
機密データの中身は…その持ち出しを阻止するため駆けつける、安室透…！ 
さらにFBIの赤井秀一も!!密かに動き出す黒づくめの組織のメンバー達!! 
コナンにかつてない危機が迫る!! 

顔写真　所属　コードネーム　通称　本名 
(見切れ)　MI6　スタウト　Unknown　Unknown 
(見切れ)　CSIS　リースリング　Unknown　(見切れ) 
(見切れ)　BND　アクアビット　Unknown　(見切れ) 
赤井　FBI　ライ(見切れ)　諸星大(見切れ)　赤井秀一 
女　CIA　キー(見切れ)　水無怜(見切れ)　木常(見切れ) 
安室　(見切れ)　(見切れ)　安(見切れ)　(見切れ) 

このリストは一体!?日本警察の機密データに何者かが侵入！ 
名探偵vs.黒づくめの組織vs.FBIvs.公安vs.‥…!?　続報を待て!!!!! 

 

Some translations from presumenothing

Mysterious assassinations are happening worldwide!! Is it related to a spy in the police department!? In the 20th top secret clip to be released next weekend, there are assassinations worldwide, and a scene of a spy who has infiltrated the Japan police accessing classified data!! In the contents of the classified data...
Amuro Tooru, who is rushing to stop it from being taken...! And Akai Shuuichi of the FBI!! The members of the BO are starting to move out in secret!! Danger like never before draws near to Conan!!"

 

There is a translation and organization of the list better found here, by Detective Conan - the Red Thread

Affiliation - Code name - Alias - Real name:

MI6　- Stout　- Unknown  - Unknown
CSIS　- Riesling - Unknown　 - (見切れ)
BND　- Aquavit -　Unknown　- (見切れ)
FBI　- Rye -　Moroboshi Dai - Akai Shuichi 
CIA　- Kir - 　Mizunashi Rena　[Hondo Hidemi]
[PSB] - [bourbon] - Amuro Tooru - [Furuya Rei]

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Copy of a post of mine from the Red Thread:

 

The CSIS is the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, and the BDN is the Bundesnachrichtendienst, a.k.a. the Federal Intelligence Service of Germany.

 

The CSIS agent has a codename based on a German alcohol, actually. Would've been something if the BDN agent had had the codename of a Canadian alcohol (like Caesar, as in the Caesar cocktail).

 

As for genders, the CSIS agent may be female (Riesling—fermented beverage (wine)) and the BDN agent may be male (Aquavit/Akvavit—distilled beverage), if the naming pattern holds, with fortified wines and wines derived from fermentation being female codenames and distilled beverages being male codenames.

 

Stout is a beer—beer is a fermented alcoholic beverage, placing it in the same category as wine. This could mean that the MI6 agent infiltrating the Organization is female.

[Heliotropic 139]

Copy of a post of mine from the Red Thread:

 

The CSIS is the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, and the BDN is the Bundesnachrichtendienst, a.k.a. the Federal Intelligence Service of Germany.

 

The CSIS agent has a codename based on a German alcohol, actually. Would've been something if the BDN agent had had the codename of a Canadian alcohol (like Caesar, as in the Caesar cocktail).

 

As for genders, the CSIS agent may be female (Riesling—fermented beverage (wine)) and the BDN agent may be male (Aquavit/Akvavit—distilled beverage), if the naming pattern holds, with fortified wines and wines derived from fermentation being female codenames and distilled beverages being male codenames.

 

Stout is a beer—beer is a fermented alcoholic beverage, placing it in the same category as wine. This could mean that the MI6 agent infiltrating the Organization is female.

 

I wonder if the movie writers will hold the same principals Gosho seems to in regards to wine and liquors (though I don't think he ever officially confirmed that he follows this pattern). I'm not sure how I feel about introducing three spies with code-names at once, even if it's just a movie. It just kind of reinforces how ridiculous the whole spy debacle has got in the series. Regardless of Gin's statements, it's just a bit much.

 

Still looking forward to the movie regardless. The plot seems a little much like Movie 13, but perhaps it'll improve upon that movie and won't be overly deceiving. It would be nice to get a pure BO movie, no matter how unlikely that is...

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I'm not sure how I feel about introducing three spies with code-names at once, even if it's just a movie. It just kind of reinforces how ridiculous the whole spy debacle has got in the series.

This is because new loyal BO agents haven't been introduced to compensate, right? We need a clear picture that spies are in the minority. When we got Kir, we got Chianti and Korn to compensate. Bourbon? Not really.

 

I wonder if the movie writers will hold the same principals Gosho seems to in regards to wine and liquors (though I don't think he ever officially confirmed that he follows this pattern).

It's a pattern inferred by we, the fans. He may never have made any official statements about it, but take things like Kir (cocktail) being a spy and all the whiskeys being spies (Scotch, Bourbon, Rye), and perhaps Gosho has a way of doing things, when it comes to the codenames. 

[Heliotropic 139]

This is because new loyal BO agents haven't been introduced to compensate, right? We need a clear picture that spies are in the minority. When we got Kir, we got Chianti and Korn to compensate. Bourbon? Not really.

 

Well, that's certainly a part of it, I mean they still are in the minority...

 

Looking at the entirety of the organization, of the active code-named members so far (8), 2 of them are spies, and one isn't exactly loyal, and I'm assuming Rum to be a loyal member... This is without mentioning Akai of course or any of the deceased spies (Ethan Hondou, Scotch). 

From that we also have other members who probably weren't entirely loyal either. Maybe the MG falls somewhere in here, and of course the Miyano family.

 

Even if they are just killed off in the movie, or movie only characters, whatever the case may be, as far as this movie is concerned, we're assuming 45% of the code-named members we know about are spies. Luckily this won't carry over to canon, and Rum will hopefully be the last code-named member (or at least that seems to be the case from his panel about Urusei Yatsura's Lum).

I'm also hoping that Rum will be 100% loyal to the organization. I'd be extremely disappointed if he turns out to be even somewhat ambiguous.

 

While I can still disregard that this is just a movie, it's already bad enough in canon.

Though I suppose the list isn't that clear, but I'm assuming that Aquavit, Stout, and Riesling haven't been ousted yet (though they'll probably be killed off in the movie, it's not like they can't not tie up loose ends) since nothing else is listed but their code-name and affiliation. 

I just can't see why it was a good idea to try and introduce three code-named members for the new movie, alluding to the fact that they are all spies nonetheless.

 

It's times like this where Gin really is one refreshing character, and I wish he'd have more of an active role in the main series. 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

So it's just too many spies and too little loyal agents.

 

So you'd have less of a problem if say, there were two spies, one ambiguous, and, say, ten to twenty loyal?

[Heliotropic 139]

So it's just too many spies and too little loyal agents.

 

So you'd have less of a problem if say, there were two spies, one ambiguous, and, say, ten to twenty loyal?

 

It really depends.

 

It's not so much about the number, but I won't say that isn't part of it. I mean we have 5 code-named members that are a bit interesting, and the rest kind of just exist (or serve their purpose for the few episodes they were featured in, Calvados, Pisco, etc.) It's not so much about Kir and Bourbon being spies, that's already spilled milk, and nothing is going to change it...

 

I still think introducing 3 code-named spies is beyond silly. From our perspective it makes the organization look incredibly incompetent, not that it doesn't in some ways already. But... it's not going to make a difference anyways, I just think it's a bad movie decision. Assuming they have a code-name means they are somewhat of a distinguished member, so I'd probably have an easier time knowing that there aren't 3 random code-named members that also happen to be spies.

 

I don't think we need more code-named members for the sake of it, and I have a hard time seeing them make every agent they introduce in this movie look "special". The movie only BO character in Movie 13 worked imo. I don't see a purpose here when more than likely each member is just going to get killed off. 

 

But... the trailer isn't even out yet, and we know next to nothing about the movie aside from some text spoilers. I'll reserve further judgement until I see the movie 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I am with Heliotropic on this one. It also makes the intelligence agencies look incompetent too, should all those codenamers be spies. It stretches my suspension of disbelief beyond breaking. That many groups with state-level resources and they can't take the BO down? It's simply impossible.

 

So maybe they can't find the boss, but that much manpower could destroy the entire BO infrastructure to the point where the Organization becomes totally impotent. All those agencies combined could simply blitz the Organization at the hideouts they know about and and capture most of the medium level codename agents and the not codenamed ones, and maybe some of the executive ones as well. With their combined investigative powers they could easily track down most of the cash, weapons caches, sponsors, shell companies, laboratories, etc. The boss maybe escapes, but they will have gotten 90% of the Org and ruined its operation and the boss's plans. Without legs or a body, the head is useless. And good luck if the boss tries to rebuild, because everyone will be alerted and on the lookout.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I am with Heliotropic on this one. It also makes the intelligence agencies look incompetent too, should all those codenamers be spies. It stretches my suspension of disbelief beyond breaking. That many groups with state-level resources and they can't take the BO down? It's simply impossible.

 

So maybe they can't find the boss, but that much manpower could destroy the entire BO infrastructure to the point where the Organization becomes totally impotent. All those agencies combined could simply blitz the Organization at the hideouts they know about and and capture most of the medium level codename agents and the not codenamed ones, and maybe some of the executive ones as well. With their combined investigative powers they could easily track down most of the cash, weapons caches, sponsors, shell companies, laboratories, etc. The boss maybe escapes, but they will have gotten 90% of the Org and ruined its operation and the boss's plans. Without legs or a body, the head is useless. And good luck if the boss tries to rebuild, because everyone will be alerted and on the lookout.

I was speaking of spies in the BO in terms of the manga—I agree with you and Heliotropic on the "Huh? How does that work?" of more than U.S. and Japanese agencies being involved.

 

 

It really depends.

 

It's not so much about the number, but I won't say that isn't part of it. I mean we have 5 code-named members that are a bit interesting, and the rest kind of just exist (or serve their purpose for the few episodes they were featured in, Calvados, Pisco, etc.)

So we just need more codenamed members who are interesting, whether they're around for more than one case or not?

[Heliotropic 139]

So we just need more codenamed members who are interesting, whether they're around for more than one case or not?

 

I'll reiterate what I said last post, because I think that covers it. I don't think we should have code-named members for the sake of having them. While the situation in canon isn't great after the Bourbon arc and learning about him being PSB or another former spy, it's really not that big of a deal and I'm mostly fine with it. After all, I think we can hold out hope for Rum to be an interesting member and that he'll be loyal. 

 

I was just using the situation in canon to further reinforce why suddenly adding 3 code-named spies comes off as a bad idea. Granted it won't have any impact on the main story, it still is quite a terrible decision imo. It looks like an attempt to try and look grandiose without thinking about any of the repercussions.

I'm not completely lamenting the current situation of spies in the series, if that's how I come across. Most of that's already spilled milk, and adding more characters in an already huge series probably wouldn't be a good fix.

 

I suppose the interesting bit of the movie is that it looks like it won't stray from the story too far, but this just makes the whole spy debacle even worse imo.

[Cocoa 54]

---

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I don't think we should have code-named members for the sake of having them. While the situation in canon isn't great after the Bourbon arc and learning about him being PSB or another former spy, it's really not that big of a deal and I'm mostly fine with it. After all, I think we can hold out hope for Rum to be an interesting member and that he'll be loyal. 

 

I'm not completely lamenting the current situation of spies in the series, if that's how I come across. Most of that's already spilled milk, and adding more characters in an already huge series probably wouldn't be a good fix.

Gotcha.

 

What do you think is a good fix, then?

 

 

Maybe the eyes belong to one of those three, acting as a double agent, who really is loyal to the organization in the end and hides the differently colored eye with a contact lens throughout the course of the movie. The character would kinda work like Irish and maybe dies at the end to keep the status quo intact (directly after disclosing (and killing?) the other two moles and learning about Bourbon and Kir being spies without being able to tell the other BO members about it, of course XD). This would, if it were true, overtly use the whole RUM hype to its own advantage (which it is already doing anyway...), but it could also probably relativize the high number of moles inside the BO a little bit.

And don't forget about discovering Shinichi's/Conan's identity.  

 

Us being given knowledge about 3 other spies in the BO would be pointless if they were going to have no role in the story—they'd be all the more relevant if one of them turned out to be a crucial character who broke the mold by being a loyal BO agent inside the government.

 

Depending on the case we get in the manga when the movie comes out, Rum's role may be either non-existent or he'll actually have a behind-the-scenes role that's only made clear by the end.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Repost from DCTP. Thanks Wakarimashita and others!

 

 

If anyone figures out why Conan is riding the world's smallest self-immolating pony, let me know please.

[Wakarimashita 137]

Because 'mare' also means 'female horse' so with that pun nightmare is also a 'female horse of the night'.

 

That horse looks like a mix between Ponyta and Epona.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Because 'mare' also means 'female horse' so with that pun nightmare is also a 'female horse of the night'.

 

That horse looks like a mix between Ponyta and Epona.

I can't decide if that pun is hilarious or terrible. I can see CSIS on one part of the spoiler images, so it looks like we are going to get some more intelligence agencies. I bet the Canadians, Germans, and English are happy they are getting some representation.

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

The tittle is kinda...well im not sure what to make of it yet

But gin looks great

And korn has his usual poker face on

[Heliotropic 139]

I like the M20 poster, though Amuro's face seems a bit odd. Akai and Gin look great!

 

Because 'mare' also means 'female horse' so with that pun nightmare is also a 'female horse of the night'.

 

Sounds like one of Kogoro's "epic" puns 

 

 

What do you think is a good fix, then?

 

It's not really like there is anything "broken" to begin with, so it was just a poor choice of wording. I wouldn't know the answer regardless. As far as canon is concerned, as long as Rum turns out to be a loyal member, and interesting to boot, I'd be satisfied. If the main story were to introduce 3 spies just like the movie, I would consider it a huge problem, but I think Rum is likely the last code-named member we'll see in canon. 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I think Rum is likely the last code-named member we'll see in canon. 

 

Here's hoping.  

[RucyL 5]

Repost from DCTP. Thanks Wakarimashita and others!

 

 

If anyone figures out why Conan is riding the world's smallest self-immolating pony, let me know please.

 

It's not just a pun, nightmares has always been represented as black horses