Name of Second Half of the Bourbon Arc on the Wiki

[Guest]

Hello this is a poll because I think it might be better to call the second half of the Bourbon arc by a different name due to the arc having a majority of its Sub plots focused on Masumi's family with very little appearance of Main plot until the end, which even still was focused on revealing that Akai, a member of Masumi's family, was alive. I want to equate it to the Cellphone arc, because that arc also had a recurring element that it was named after. 

 

If you think different, please explain your thoughts below 

 

 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Question is, when did the Bourbon arc end? Did it end with File 824, or File 897? Did Rei's/Tooru's BO reveal end his arc (which was only 31 Files after his intro, not as Scar Akai), or did it end upon his PSB reveal, which was reached through events that began with Mystery Train (104 Files after his intro).

 

Before File 897, even people like me, who saw File 808 (Overnight Deadline/Life-Threatening Broadcast of Love) as a clue to his allegiance were unsure of whether he really was or not. Scarlet Showdown could've conceivably been the beginning of the end for DC—until Rei/Tooru was, indeed, revealed to be PSB, and the very pressing threat against Shinichi's/Conan's and Shuichi's plan and Hidemi's/Kir's life was put to an end. I consider this the end of the Bourbon arc—the threat he posed to Shiho/Ai ended in File 824, and the threat he posed to the fake death plan seems to have ended, since Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi know his secret, now. They could reveal his secret if he reveals theirs—its mutually assured destruction.

 

I consider the Bourbon arc to be a four act arc:

 

Act I: 622–704/509–581 (Red, White and Yellow to Silent Clash)

Act II: 705–767/582–645 (Purse Snatcher to Ramen So Good it's to Die For)

Act III: 768–824/646–704 (Jeet Kune Do to Mystery Train)

Act IV: 825–897/705–783 (Special Coach to Scarlet Showdown)

 

Acts III and IV of the Bourbon arc are also part of a parallel arc about Masumi and all the questions that her appearance brought up—I like to call this arc the Rye arc, in keeping with arcs being named after BO agents, former, spy or otherwise.

 

The Rum arc begins with File 898, and the first mention of him—we have yet to reach the second act, as the Rum arc is only 41 Files old—the Rye arc continued through this, up to now. Until we get the Shinichi/Ran/Masumi flashback, this arc will continue on as a parallel to the Rum arc as it was a parallel to the Bourbon arc.

 

Instead of renaming "the second half of the Bourbon arc" as you put it, have it still be the Bourbon arc, but add in the Rye arc, have it start with File 768, and continue up to now, as a parallel to "the second half of the Bourbon arc", rather than a replacement.

[User 4869 100]

I voted choice 1. Especially the "Post Mystery Train" part

[Guest]

@DCU

 

The main reason I made this thread was to try to find a way to unify the way that the Arcs are listed across the wiki. To me at least, I really don't like the idea of calling something an

Arc Part 2, but rather give it a name for itself. The Timeline page lists the first portion as "First Mission (Sherry)" (622-824) and the second portion as "Second Mission (Shuichi Akai)"

(825-898).  My first problem with this is the idea that Bourbon was actually hunting for Sherry. He made no indication that he was actually hunting for her until he conveniently finds

the video of her on Kogoro's laptop. So calling that whole portion by that description is kind of weak for me. Secondly, the second half is calls a Mission against Akai, which also seems

like a weak title since he was hunting for info on Akai being dead or alive since "Scar Akai" first appeared and began stalking the FBI agents. That was the whole point of him appearing

in the first place. 

 

The purpose of this thread was to determine, that if the first portion could simply be refereed to as the "Bourbon Arc", then what could the second part be called? 

 

 

For me, I have always broke the "Bourbon Arc" down into three portions (Although I fully understand why someone would disagree with me on where the Bourbon Arc starts

due to Bourbon not being mentioned until 622 when Okiya is introduced.)

 

Kir Arc - 499-604

----Beginning with Ding-Dong-Dash and ending with Kir Transportation

 

Bourbon Arc: Okiya Suspicion 604-767

---Beginning with Foreign Suspects Case and ending with Ramen So Good

---starting there because Akai's "death" serving as prologue/beginning of why Bourbon is "on the move" 

---So that it mirrors, starting with the Fake death in 608, and ending with its reveal as a Fake death in 898

 

Bourbon Arc: Three Suspects Suspicion 768-824 (or 827 depending on how I feel that day)

---Beginning with Jeet Kune Do and ending with Mystery Train

 

Bourbon Arc: Masumi's Family Arc 825-898

---Beginning with Conan in a Locked Room and ending with Scarlet Return

 

I fully understand why people wouldn't want to use this list as a way of marking the beginning of the Arc, since people like having Arcs start with character introduction. 

Thats why I mainly focused on the name of the last portion, namely the Post Mystery Train part that really isn't about Bourbon at all since it focused on (EDIT: Apparently I didn't finish this sentence, woops, I'll add it in when I wake up in the morning. But it kind of gets explained below)

 

The only issue I have with the way you have layed out your method of breaking down the Bourbon Arc is that your explanation afterword includes the possibility of calling some

portion of it by the name "Rye Arc". By calling it that, you run the risk of potentially spoiling anyone who has read up to the point where Akai "died" but still looks at the names of

the Arcs. Plus there is hardly anything about Rye in your Act 3 other than the brief appearance of Scar Akai and Haibara's flashback to Moroboshi Dai for one panel (both in Won't

Even Forgive One Millimeter). Masumi makes no reference to having any brothers until her utterance of "Shuu-nii" aboard the train, but she doesn't indicate having a brother or

brothers to Conan and the others until Post Mystery Train, your Act 4. 

 

While the Post MT Arc is book-ended by Bourbon becoming suspicious of Conan at the end of Conan in a Locked Room and then much later becoming suspicious of the of the 

person who became close to Conan around the time Akai "died" (as well as knowing that he could potentially trust Conan). But the main "meat" of the Arc is mostly Masumi introducing

Conan to the idea of her family. Her "late-brother" at the end of Blush Mermaid, her "middle brother" in Suspect is Makoto Kyogoku, and Mystery Girl in "Red Woman". While their 

identities are not yet officially confirmed by the manga yet, most of the fandom seems to have decided who they are already. However naming the arc "Masumi's Family Arc/Portion"

doesn't really spoil anything because its not really named after any one character, but rather multiple characters all of whom are mentioned to exist, by Masumi. 

 

---------------------------------

 

The only reason I have even thought to mention all of this is that I am making a page that lists all of the manga by Case title

and having it subdivided by Arc names in the same way as the timeline page. I was really hoping to find a way to name the portions of the Bourbon Arc in non-spoilery ways

like dividing it in half and calling the Pre-MT portion the "Bourbon Arc" and the Post-MT the "Masumi Family Arc" in the same way that all of the chapters after the Vermouth Arc

are simply called the Cellphone Arc, since most of them have to do with Cellphones. 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

The only issue I have with the way you have layed out your method of breaking down the Bourbon Arc is that your explanation afterword includes the possibility of calling some

portion of it by the name "Rye Arc". By calling it that, you run the risk of potentially spoiling anyone who has read up to the point where Akai "died" but still looks at the names of

the Arcs. Plus there is hardly anything about Rye in your Act 3 other than the brief appearance of Scar Akai and Haibara's flashback to Moroboshi Dai for one panel (both in Won't

Even Forgive One Millimeter). Masumi makes no reference to having any brothers until her utterance of "Shuu-nii" aboard the train, but she doesn't indicate having a brother or

brothers to Conan and the others until Post Mystery Train, your Act 4. 

As I said:

 

I like to call this arc the Rye arc, in keeping with arcs being named after BO agents, former, spy or otherwise.

Of course, the cellphone arc isn't named after a BO agent, so there's already a consistency breach in the notion of all the arcs being named after BO agents.

 

Act IV of the Bourbon arc has a total of 4 cases that relate to Masumi's family.

247 — Steamy Relations (Volume 81, File 856–File 858/File 6–File 8) – Brother in contact with Masumi + Masumi taking a picture of Shinichi/Conan... to show to MG?

248 — Bumper Brawn – Suspect, Makoto Kyogoku (Volume 81, File 859–File 861/File 9–File 11) – Middle brother intro

252 — The Tragedy of the Red Woman (Volume 82, File 872/File 11 and Volume 83, File 873–File 875/File 1–File 3) – Middle brother + MG intro

253 — The Romance Novel's Unexpected Result (Volume 83, File 876–File 878/File 4–File 6) – MG: "Sister from outside the domain"

 

It has, by comparison, 5 cases featuring Rei/Tooru (8 if you include 242 — Sweet and Cold Delivery Service (Volume 80, File 841–File 843/File 2–File 4), 247 — Steamy Relations (Volume 81, File 856–File 858/File 6–File 8) and 250 — Taii’s Owner/The Beckoning Calico Cat Case (Volume 82, File 865–File 868/File 4–File 7)).

 

238 — The Missing Key of the Locked Room (Volume 78, File 825–File 827/File 8–File 10) – Knows that Shinichi/Conan is the true Sleeping Kogoro

245 — A Shrine to Remember – Jodie’s Memories and the Cherry Blossom Viewing Trap (Volume 80, File 850/File 11 and Volume 81, File 851–File 852/File 1–File 2) – Gets info on fake death plan

257 — The Tense Tea Party (Volume 84, File 888–File 890/File 6–File 8) – More info on fake death plan + biggest clue for Shinichi/Conan on him being PSB

258 — Scarlet Prologue – Bourbon's Pursuit and the Assault of an Elementary School Teacher (Volume 84, File 891–File 893/File 9–File 11) – Triggers showdown

259 — Scarlet Showdown – The Silver Bullets and the Truth (Volume 85, File 894–File 898/File 1–File 5) – Resolution

 

The Post Mystery Train part that really isn't about Bourbon at all since it focused on...

 

Masumi introducing Conan to the idea of her family.

Actually, the main focus is on Rei/Tooru, during Act IV, if you go by # of cases (5 to 4) and Files (17 to 13).

 

The Timeline page lists the first portion as "First Mission (Sherry)" (622-824) and the second portion as "Second Mission (Shuichi Akai)"

(825-898).

My first problem with this is the idea that Bourbon was actually hunting for Sherry. He made no indication that he was actually hunting for her until he conveniently finds

the video of her on Kogoro's laptop. So calling that whole portion by that description is kind of weak for me. 

Then why is he at the Mouri Detective Agency, of all places?

 

Remember—Gin doubted that Kogoro was completely innocent of any involvement of what had happened in Black Impact. In the same file, he'd connected the events of Reunion with the Black Organization to then-current events. It would certainly be a good place to look around. Rei/Tooru finds the video in File 817, just 22 Files after he becomes Kogoro's apprentice. Without this and Mystery Train, who knows how long he might have stayed?

 

Secondly, the second half is calls a Mission against Akai, which also seems

like a weak title since he was hunting for info on Akai being dead or alive since "Scar Akai" first appeared and began stalking the FBI agents. That was the whole point of him appearing

in the first place. 

Mystery Train is what leads to Rei/Tooru "beginning his investigations from square one," and investigating Haido City Hospital, Rikumichi Kusuda and the FBI agents who were there, and what they witnessed, rather than testing their reactions via disguise to see if the FBI had faked his death, and if someone like Masumi knew about it. Him seeing Shuichi in File 824 is what ultimately leads to Scarlet Showdown. Most of the stories he's in, during Act IV, involve him putting all the pieces together, including Shinichi's/Conan's intelligence and involvement.

 

 

@DCU

 

The main reason I made this thread was to try to find a way to unify the way that the Arcs are listed across the wiki. To me at least, I really don't like the idea of calling something an

Arc Part 2, but rather give it a name for itself.

 

The purpose of this thread was to determine, that if the first portion could simply be refereed to as the "Bourbon Arc", then what could the second part be called? 

 

The only reason I have even thought to mention all of this is that I am making a page that lists all of the manga by Case title

and having it subdivided by Arc names in the same way as the timeline page. I was really hoping to find a way to name the portions of the Bourbon Arc in non-spoilery ways

like dividing it in half and calling the Pre-MT portion the "Bourbon Arc" and the Post-MT the "Masumi Family Arc" in the same way that all of the chapters after the Vermouth Arc

are simply called the Cellphone Arc, since most of them have to do with Cellphones. 

 

So, general arc names (Conan, Sherry, Vermouth, Cellphone, Kir, Bourbon, Rum) and sub-arc names (for example, Clash of Red and Black from the Kir arc (I consider this to be the third act of the Kir arc, ranging from File 582–File 609/Episode 484–Episode 504—from The Whereabouts of the Missing Photograph to Friday the 13th))?

 

I guess you could call it the Outside the Domain Arc—I'd rather it be its own separate part, ranging from File 768–File 938 (farthest, so far), running through the 3rd and 4th acts of the Bourbon arc, and through the 1st and so far only act of the Rum arc (File 898–File 938).

[Guest]

Except since Masumi reveals that Shuuichi is her brother on the train, and Subaru shows that he has the same eye as her/Shuuichi,

I was including the cases Subaru appeared in as part of that total, as well as her mention of her "late-brother" in Blush Mermaid, and the mentions of Akai in Shrine case So...

239 --- Kaitou Kid Blush Mermaid ----- Mention of "Late-Brother" / feeling of hat / knowing Scar Akai wasn't the real one

242 --- Ice Truck Delivery Case ----- Subaru's cellphone and witnessing Bourbon save the DB (Although this one could probably be removed)

245 — A Shrine to Remember ----- Mentions of real Akai by Jodie and Haibara thinks of "Dai" 

247 — Steamy Relations ----- Brother in contact with Masumi + Masumi taking a picture of Conan

248 — Bumper Brawn ----- Middle brother intro + differentiating from "late-brother" 

252 — The Tragedy of the Red Woman ----- Middle brother Case + 3 family names + "Father dead" + MG intro

253 — The Romance Novelist ----- MG - Sister from outside the domain

259 — Scarlet Showdown ----- Reveal of Akai being alive

Plus, If Shuukichi does turn out to be the middle brother, you can throw Case 244 on to the list as well, even though the reader isn't necessarily supposed to have that knowledge yet. 

 

The issue I am having is trying to create an arc name without crossing over each other. I mean for all I really care the whole thing (622-898) could just be called "Bourbon Arc" without divisions. I just keep seeing this established division line created by others that divides it along Mystery Train. I didn't want to remove it, but I disagree with its current naming as Mission Sherry, and Mission Akai, when Akai was the main thing from the very beginning. Nor did I want to just change it myself without consulting the DCW community by posting in the forums. I just want it all to match across the wiki. The reason that I suggested "Masumi Family arc" was because it does focus a lot on Masumi's family, Akai included. 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Except since Masumi reveals that Shuuichi is her brother on the train, and Subaru shows that he has the same eye as her/Shuuichi,

I was including the cases Subaru appeared in as part of that total, as well as her mention of her "late-brother" in Blush Mermaid, and the mentions of Akai in Shrine case So...

239 --- Kaitou Kid Blush Mermaid ----- Mention of "Late-Brother" / feeling of hat / knowing Scar Akai wasn't the real one

242 --- Ice Truck Delivery Case ----- Subaru's cellphone and witnessing Bourbon save the DB (Although this one could probably be removed)

245 — A Shrine to Remember ----- Mentions of real Akai by Jodie and Haibara thinks of "Dai" 

247 — Steamy Relations ----- Brother in contact with Masumi + Masumi taking a picture of Conan

248 — Bumper Brawn ----- Middle brother intro + differentiating from "late-brother" 

252 — The Tragedy of the Red Woman ----- Middle brother Case + 3 family names + "Father dead" + MG intro

253 — The Romance Novelist ----- MG - Sister from outside the domain

259 — Scarlet Showdown ----- Reveal of Akai being alive

Plus, If Shuukichi does turn out to be the middle brother, you can throw Case 244 on to the list as well, even though the reader isn't necessarily supposed to have that knowledge yet. 

 

The issue I am having is trying to create an arc name without crossing over each other. I mean for all I really care the whole thing (622-898) could just be called "Bourbon Arc" without divisions. I just keep seeing this established division line created by others that divides it along Mystery Train. I didn't want to remove it, but I disagree with its current naming as Mission Sherry, and Mission Akai, when Akai was the main thing from the very beginning. Nor did I want to just change it myself without consulting the DCW community by posting in the forums. I just want it all to match across the wiki. The reason that I suggested "Masumi Family arc" was because it does focus a lot on Masumi's family, Akai included. 

The Timeline page lists the first portion as "First Mission (Sherry)" (622-824) and the second portion as "Second Mission (Shuichi Akai)"

(825-898).  My first problem with this is the idea that Bourbon was actually hunting for Sherry. He made no indication that he was actually hunting for her until he conveniently finds

the video of her on Kogoro's laptop. So calling that whole portion by that description is kind of weak for me. Secondly, the second half is calls a Mission against Akai, which also seems

like a weak title since he was hunting for info on Akai being dead or alive since "Scar Akai" first appeared and began stalking the FBI agents. That was the whole point of him appearing

in the first place.

 

Then why is he at the Mouri Detective Agency, of all places?

 

Remember—Gin doubted that Kogoro was completely innocent of any involvement of what had happened in Black Impact. In the same file, he'd connected the events of Reunion with the Black Organization to then-current events. It would certainly be a good place to look around. Rei/Tooru finds the video in File 817, just 22 Files after he becomes Kogoro's apprentice. Without this and Mystery Train, who knows how long he might have stayed?

 

Mystery Train is what leads to Rei/Tooru "beginning his investigations from square one," and investigating Haido City Hospital, Rikumichi Kusuda and the FBI agents who were there, and what they witnessed, rather than testing their reactions via disguise to see if the FBI had faked his death, and if someone like Masumi knew about it. Him seeing Shuichi in File 824 is what ultimately leads to Scarlet Showdown. Most of the stories he's in, during Act IV, involve him putting all the pieces together, including Shinichi's/Conan's intelligence and involvement.

 

So it's not really weak.

 

I guess you could call it the Outside the Domain Arc—I'd rather it be its own separate part, ranging from File 768–File 938 (farthest, so far), running through the 3rd and 4th acts of the Bourbon arc, and through the 1st and so far only act of the Rum arc (File 898–File 938).

 

You could also call the Pre-Mystery Train half the "Who is Bourbon?" sub arc, with "Subaru Okiya and the Mysterious Scarred Man" (no spoilers) sub-sub arc for my act I, for example.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I am a fan of keeping it simple. From the start of Bourbon's appearance to the end of his final conflict demarcates his arc. The Cellphone arc only exists because there was a gap between Vermouth's final conflict and Kir's first appearance. That's not the case with the Bourbon arc where Bourbon was still a threat the whole long drawn out time.

 

Maybe best solution is to call this whole arc the "Bourbon and Akai" arc, adding Akai for both Shuuichi's death and his family's appearance.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Maybe best solution is to call this whole arc the "Bourbon and Akai" arc, adding Akai for both Shuuichi's death and his family's appearance.

 

Yeah, that's simpler than making a parallel arc from 768/646–present, as I suggested.