[SPOILER DISCUSSION] Files 939-941 Department Store Stabbing

[Guest]

THIS THREAD is used to discuss about SPOILERS. In other words, if you only read the English version and wish to wait for the full release instead of getting spoiled, this is NOT the right place for you!

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Text spoilers (In Japanese)

画バレとか派手に動きすぎたのが敗因だな 

こちらは自重してなるべく文章だけにとどめてるけど 

 

さて本題　FILE939 デパートでランチ！ 

 

福引で食事券を当てた阿笠は少年探偵団を連れてデパートへ 

はしゃぐ一同をよそに、コナンは領域外の妹が誰か考えている 

 

デパートに着くと、歩美が化粧品売り場に目を引かれる 

コナンがお前らには早いとけなすと、灰原がゴネて店員に試供品を使わさせる 

(化粧は後で落とした) 

 

レストランで阿笠が金券の話をすると 

みんなバラバラに欲しいもののコーナーへ一直線 

残ったコナンは料理長が耳打ちされているのを聞く 

このところクレーマーに悩まされているらしく、30分後に直接会うとのこと 

 

食後、コナンのスマホに歩美たちからメールが届く 

おかげで阿笠が探す手間は省けたようだが、懐事情は… 

などと話していると階段の方から悲鳴 

料理長がクレーマーに？腹を刺され倒れている　命に別状はなさそうだ 

危険なので直接手を出さずに追い詰めるようコナンが団員たちに指示 

 

目暮が現場に駆けつける　容疑者は3人 

慌ててデパートを出ようとしていたせいか、皆汗をかいている 

フリーター♂はトイレを探していたがどの階も満員、よそのコンビニを探しに行く途中 

主婦は財布を無くしたと思い、立ち寄った売り場全部回ったところで自分のバッグから発見 

シェフ♂は他店の味の研究のため、タイ料理を食べたところ汗が止まらず帰宅しようとする 

 

困ったことに、団員のみんながみんな証言がバラバラ 

■食い違う証言…犯人の姿は一体!?

 

 

Some translations by Bash from the spoiler cbox:

 

bash7353: Conan thinks about who the Mystery Girl is.

 

 

bash7353: It doesn't really say to what conclusions he comes, though.

 

 

bash7353: So the short version: they go to a department store, someone is stabbed, Megure shows up, there are three suspects.

 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

They're probably at Beika Department Store (Silent Clash/Crisis Beckoned by the Red Omen – 700–704/578–581)

[Heliotropic 139]

File 939 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4165961451

Alternate link: http://imgur.com/a/60LZo

 

First time we've seen the Detective Badges in awhile, albeit briefly. Quite nice.

 

I'm positive everyone is now reminded of OVA 11 because of that one panel  

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

First time we've seen the Detective Badges in awhile, albeit briefly. Quite nice.

 

I'm positive everyone is now reminded of OVA 11 because of that one panel  

I sure was.  

 

Can't wait to have Page 3 translated.

[Guest]

I sure was.

 

Can't wait to have Page 3 translated.

 

From Presumenothing: 

 

#939 p3: Conan (thinking) "If Sera is Akai-san's younger sister..." "Then why exactly did she return to Japan from America?" "Was it to confirm the news of Akai-san's death?" "So that's why she approached me, because of my dealings with the FBI?" "...if that's the case, she should have looked into me further..." "As expected Sera is connected somehow..." "To that girl around middle school age that she's hiding in the hotel..."

 

 p3, cont: "Her name is most likely Mary..." "She called herself the little sister from outside the domain..." "She greatly resembles Sera..." "No, that's wrong..." "That girl, rather than resembling Sera..." (then he's interrupted by Ai)

 

he blatantly avoids the question when Ai asks him what he's thinking about, as usual (what communication :v)

[Heliotropic 139]

Some more translations by presumenothing

 

#939 p3: Conan (thinking) "If Sera is Akai-san's younger sister..." "Then why exactly did she return to Japan from America?" "Was it to confirm the news of Akai-san's death?" "So that's why she approached me, because of my dealings with the FBI?" "...if that's the case, she should have looked into me further..." "As expected Sera is connected somehow..." "To that girl around middle school age that she's hiding in the hotel..."

p3, cont: "Her name is most likely Mary..." "She called herself the little sister from outside the domain..." "She greatly resembles Sera..." "No, that's wrong..." "That girl, rather than resembling Sera..." (then he's interrupted by Ai)
Ai "What is it?” “Thinking about something?" 
Conan "Ah, yes, more or less…”

he blatantly avoids the question when Ai asks him what he's thinking about, as usual (what communication :v)

(also yes she stayed up until 4am cockroach-busting)

#939 p7: Makeup lady "Excuse me... where is your mother?" Ai "Dead... she died right after I was born..."

the DB (including Ai =P traitor) are sending pictures of the stuff they want

Genta saw a small-sized person, Mitsuhiko saw quite a large-sized person whose running gait was like a man's, Ayumi saw a lady of average height, a bit taller than Agasa
Genta saw the suspect's shirt as grey (like Ai's shirt), Mitsuhiko as dark grey, and Ayumi as a light grey that was close to white

also the reason for Megure&co arriving so early is probably because Conan asked Ai to go report the incident to the reception/info counter

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Wow, that bit about Ai's mother dying right after she is born is actually very useful info because it clears up some timing issues and also clarifies how much Ai would remember about her parents (e.g. nothing except what her parents left as mementos like the voice tapes). It also confirms that the Miyanos made the very strange choice to conceive a daughter already knowing they were going to disappear and then leave her in the hands of the Black Organization. (Assuming Shiho was a planned pregnancy. Shiho could be an accident or the product of someone else's choice forced on Elena, if you get my drift.) Elena seemed to be kind and empathetic, so leaving her kids in the care of a murderous den of criminal freaks is seriously out of character for her.  It would make some sense if Elena was planning to leave the organization with the help of some law enforcement agency and take her kids with her - perhaps by staging a faked death accident, but actually died for real instead because it was botched, or she was betrayed.

 

It also brings to mind a theory someone brought up on DCTP some years ago which proposed that Shiho is Elena Miyano, shrunken with total amnesia. To that theory's credit Amuro did say that Elena and Shiho look alike. Personally I am going to have to see Elena's face before I get on board with that theory. (Elena could have the Akai eyes if she is Mary Akai nee Sera's sister for instance).

 

Conan's line of thought -- Mary resembling Masumi is wrong, it's Masumi who resembles Mary -- is a very clear indicator that he thinks Mary is Sera's mother. Conan self corrects because children get their appearance from their parents, not vice versa. If Conan thought they were just similar looking relatives, there would be no need for him to make the extra effort to correct himself.

 

Also this case is totally a redux of Sato's marriage arrangement case, and definitely a shoutout to the current "what does Rum actually look like" problem.

[EthanHunter 7]

This case totally reminds of that Sato's wedding case and ova 11

Regarding Chek's post, the theory posted sounds interesting but very hard to believe... would have made sense if Shiho forgot her last 18 years, but remembering her past kind of rules out that theory completely, doesn't it?

One more thing, what Conan was thinking was probably "No, that's wrong..." "That girl, rather than resembling Sera... resembles Haibara!".

First of all, Haibara interrupting Conan might be an indirect hint Gosho gave us about Conan's thoughts, and secondly, Conan might have realized the reason he thought MG resembled Sera in the first place was because he always relates her to Sera, what I mean is that they live together and also he knows MG only because of Sera, from a neutral perspective she looks a lot more like Haibara, and that was also my first impression because only Sera's and MG's eyes look similar, her facial structure and hair look a lot more like Ai, this might mean he is slowly arriving at the conclusion that Elena and the Akai mother are related (or father, I take mother because of what Gosho said about two mothers being sisters).

 

Also, as Chek mentioned this relates to Rum a bit, so we might be getting more plot about Rum soon

[Heliotropic 139]

Also this case is totally a redux of Sato's marriage arrangement case, and definitely a shoutout to the current "what does Rum actually look like" problem.

 

I had a similar thought in regards to MPD4, but at the same time, it's quite different isn't it? I'm not sure if I misunderstood the translation to this case, but it seems like the DB are describing individual suspects, and not the same person, and each of the three suspects fit one of the descriptions, where as in MPD4 they were all seeing the same person in different ways.

I'm not sure if this could be a foreshadowing of Rum, or even what to look out for. If anything it's probably coincidental.

 

 

Conan's line of thought -- Mary resembling Masumi is wrong, it's Masumi who resembles Mary -- is a very clear indicator that he thinks Mary is Sera's mother. Conan self corrects because children get their appearance from their parents, not vice versa. If Conan thought they were just similar looking relatives, there would be no need for him to make the extra effort to correct himself.

 

I didn't really think too much of this, but I do wonder if that's what he meant. It would be odd if he thinks that the MG resembles someone else much more than Sera, like Haibara for instance (which has been brought up by Gosho in some way before I think? AC or Sherry's Soliloquy) since the MG's hair-style and eyes are much closer to Masumi. That would make sense if he comes to the conclusion that she is her mother, I mean most of the community already has... but at the same time, Conan has only got a brief look at the MG and knows barely anything about her. We know more about her than Conan does, and it seems he just figured out that Akai was even Masumi's brother, so I'm not sure how much faith I'm going to put in him here. 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

From Gosho usual story telling style, the way the interruption happens during either a conversation or thought process always correlates to the context of the subject, in this case, Haibara being what he thought MG looked like cannot be overlooked simply just because it's random! It's just as random to consider MG to be the mother sera took after without even any indication that she seems a bit too mature!

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I don't know about Shiho/Ai = Elena—it'd be really a strange twist.

 

Is there subtext, or are there clues that point to this?

[EthanHunter 7]

I don't know about Shiho/Ai = Elena—it'd be really a strange twist.

 

Is there subtext, or are there clues that point to this?

Well as I said, I have a hard time believing that's even possible.

 

 

I had a similar thought in regards to MPD4, but at the same time, it's quite different isn't it? I'm not sure if I misunderstood the translation to this case, but it seems like the DB are describing individual suspects, and not the same person, and each of the three suspects fit one of the descriptions, where as in MPD4 they were all seeing the same person in different ways.

I'm not sure if this could be a foreshadowing of Rum, or even what to look out for. If anything it's probably coincidental.

Well isn't that the exact same thing as MPD4? I'm sorry, I haven't read the chinese scans yet, but even in MPD4 there were multiple characteristics pointed out by individual witnesses that each fit one of the 3 suspects, however since only one could be the culprit it did not make sense... until Shinichi figured out what exactly happened.

Yeah about Rum there is a fair chance it's a coincidence, not that it really matters even if it is a foreshadowing in any way.

[Heliotropic 139]

Well isn't that the exact same thing as MPD4? I'm sorry, I haven't read the chinese scans yet, but even in MPD4 there were multiple characteristics pointed out by individual witnesses that each fit one of the 3 suspects, however since only one could be the culprit it did not make sense... until Shinichi figured out what exactly happened.

Yeah about Rum there is a fair chance it's a coincidence, not that it really matters even if it is a foreshadowing in any way.

 

It's similar, but not the same scenario as MPD4, perhaps what I'm trying to say is pretty poorly conveyed though.

In that case, we had one culprit clearly using a disguise and three different descriptions for a suspect. In the current file it seems to me that the DB's are describing each of the three suspects, since the descriptions match up. Ayumi saw a lady who was wearing a very light shade of gray, Genta saw a small man wearing gray, and Mitsuhiko saw a large man wearing dark grey, which is how each of the suspects are portrayed at the end of the file. 

 

Looking back on MPD4 it was certainly a way you could see the same thing in 3 different ways. This case would be the same concept if they were all describing the same person, but judging from the translations and the file, that doesn't look to be the case, or maybe I'm overlooking something and just being stupid 

[EthanHunter 7]

It's similar, but not the same scenario as MPD4, perhaps what I'm trying to say is pretty poorly conveyed though.

In that case, we had one culprit clearly using a disguise and three different descriptions for a suspect. In the current file it seems to me that the DB's are describing each of the three suspects, since the descriptions match up. Ayumi saw a lady who was wearing a very light shade of gray, Genta saw a small man wearing gray, and Mitsuhiko saw a large man wearing dark grey, which is how each of the suspects are portrayed at the end of the file. 

 

Looking back on MPD4 it was certainly a way you could see the same thing in 3 different ways. This case would be the same concept if they were all describing the same person, but judging from the translations and the file, that doesn't look to be the case, or maybe I'm overlooking something and just being stupid 

Ah I see that makes sense... so the DB described the culprits even before actually having met them right? Ok then it's quite different, from your last post I thought it was the DB describing the same person in different ways Didn't read the file yet... so yeah different indeed

[Heliotropic 139]

File 940 Summary by Spimer

File 940: Scattered Testimonies

Genta, 7th floor:
Short person, number "2" on the clothes, clothes are of gray color similar to Haibara's clothes

Mitsuhiko, 5th floor:
Large build, man-like running style, think grey clothes

Ayumi, 4th floor:
Normal back, slightly higher than Agasa, bright grey clothes. Woman (somehow).

All 3 suspects wear grey clothing but with different logos: the freeter's reads "Beika", the housewife's brooch reads "6" and the chef has the Tokyo Spirits (TS) logo.
The cheft's worried about athelete's foot and wants to go back: according to another report, it'd seem they'd had trouble with the victim.
The weapon doesn't have fingerprints, none have discarded gloves and none have blood spurts. 

The DBs then start checking their own testimonies.

Genta talked about a basketball club, so they check a sports store: Haido High's came to pick their new uniforms and the clerk took a photo of them. But when Genta rushed through yelling "outta the way!" they couldn't see the culprit. Due to international basketball rules, the numbers 1, 2 and 3 aren't used. So it shouldn't be possible that Genta mistook them as basketball players. 

Conan checks the photo again: Genta and Ayumi say "it's not a selfie" so they then go to the toy store where Ayumi had her photo taken: they don't want to wait for the elevator so they go down the stairs.

There they see another store's clerk carrying a mannequin: Mitsuhiko says he saw the culprit seemed to flee by slipping through a row of them in the 5th floor: but their height is mixed so they can't be used as height comparison: there was a white signboard placed there so Mitsuhiko missed the culprit's face.

The toystore clerk had lost a contact on that moment so they couldn't see much of what happened either.
Ayumi says that the culprit had stopped in front of the stairs' landing window and was doing a gesture like trying to take off something stuck beneath the left foot. But when Ayumi was about to see the culprit's face she got her view blocked by a bunch of students on a school trip and lost sight of the culprit: she doesn't know what school they belonged to. 

Nevertheless, Conan looks like he's got an idea of the solution.

[EthanHunter 7]

Seems like a short case, maybe one more file?

By the way, do we usually get breaks between each case? I started following the manga fairly recently so not sure

[Heliotropic 139]

Seems like a short case, maybe one more file?

By the way, do we usually get breaks between each case? I started following the manga fairly recently so not sure

 

Yea, the conclusion will be File 941. We don't always get a break between each case. Aside from the magazine break, I think we went from File 925 to File 935 without a single break.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

There might be room for plot developments at the end of next chapter, that could explain the pacing...

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

File 940 Summary by Spimer

File 940: Scattered Testimonies

Genta, 7th floor:

Short person, number "2" on the clothes, clothes are of gray color similar to Haibara's clothes

Mitsuhiko, 5th floor:

Large build, man-like running style, think grey clothes

Ayumi, 4th floor:

Normal back, slightly higher than Agasa, bright grey clothes. Woman (somehow).

All 3 suspects wear grey clothing but with different logos: the freeter's reads "Beika", the housewife's brooch reads "6" and the chef has the Tokyo Spirits (TS) logo.

The cheft's worried about athelete's foot and wants to go back: according to another report, it'd seem they'd had trouble with the victim.

The weapon doesn't have fingerprints, none have discarded gloves and none have blood spurts. 

The DBs then start checking their own testimonies.

Genta talked about a basketball club, so they check a sports store: Haido High's came to pick their new uniforms and the clerk took a photo of them. But when Genta rushed through yelling "outta the way!" they couldn't see the culprit. Due to international basketball rules, the numbers 1, 2 and 3 aren't used. So it shouldn't be possible that Genta mistook them as basketball players. 

Conan checks the photo again: Genta and Ayumi say "it's not a selfie" so they then go to the toy store where Ayumi had her photo taken: they don't want to wait for the elevator so they go down the stairs.

There they see another store's clerk carrying a mannequin: Mitsuhiko says he saw the culprit seemed to flee by slipping through a row of them in the 5th floor: but their height is mixed so they can't be used as height comparison: there was a white signboard placed there so Mitsuhiko missed the culprit's face.

The toystore clerk had lost a contact on that moment so they couldn't see much of what happened either.

Ayumi says that the culprit had stopped in front of the stairs' landing window and was doing a gesture like trying to take off something stuck beneath the left foot. But when Ayumi was about to see the culprit's face she got her view blocked by a bunch of students on a school trip and lost sight of the culprit: she doesn't know what school they belonged to. 

Nevertheless, Conan looks like he's got an idea of the solution.

 

Genta was with a bunch of basketball players picking out clothes, so by comparison everyone else is going to look short. Also there are many mirrors in a sports clothing store, so an S could easily become a 2. Genta's self-picture appears to have been taken in a mirror, but I can't tell for certain since the art at the edge of the panel is a bit grainy.

 

Mannequins generally are very petite, so if anything Mitsuhiko would see a fatter and slightly taller man by comparison.

 

Ditching clothes on the mannequins and picking up new clothes makes sense. If any of the suspects have clothes that are ill-fitting, that is suspicious. They would have to remove the stickers and tags though. A sticker from new clothes could be the thing which was stuck to the culprit's shoe.

 

I am not sure about Ayumi's running like a woman (women and men running look the same to me, except for matters of weight and stride length), but it could have something to do with the thing stuck to the culprit's shoe or if he was carrying something that could be mistaken for a purse that would alter his form.

Ayumi took her picture differently than the others because she was not holding the camera. Either she set her phone down for a delayed picture, or had someone else photograph her.

 

It's pretty weird that the culprit would have brought a knife to stab someone in a mall. That's about the worse possible location. It must have been spur of the moment.

 

I'll need to see the file though before I can draw any conclusions.

 

Also I must take back what I assumed about the continuation of Conan's line being " rather, Sera looks like that girl". It seems the most accurate translation is "She looks a lot like Sera, no wait, more than that girl resembling Sera..." (領域外の妹と名乗る... 世良によく似た... いや...　あの子世良というより..... )." It does appear that Conan has someone else in mind. Haibara is one guess, Shuuichi is another. Both are good guesses. Since Masumi made a big deal of Mom, Me, Shuuichi all look alike, Conan could be following that line of thinking to its logical conclusion. He could also be seeing the similarity to Haibara if Elena and Mary are sisters.

[Heliotropic 139]

Also I must take back what I assumed about the continuation of Conan's line being " rather, Sera looks like that girl". It seems the most accurate translation is "She looks a lot like Sera, no wait, more than that girl resembling Sera..." (領域外の妹と名乗る... 世良によく似た... いや...　あの子世良というより..... )." It does appear that Conan has someone else in mind. Haibara is one guess, Shuuichi is another. Both are good guesses. Since Masumi made a big deal of Mom, Me, Shuuichi all look alike, Conan could be following that line of thinking to its logical conclusion. He could also be seeing the similarity to Haibara if Elena and Mary are sisters.

 

With him knowing that Akai and Sera are related, I think dodging around the answer would be pointless if he is talking about Shuu. It would already be quite obvious (though he did just figure out they were related). I think he's referring to Haibara in this case, though I don't really see much of a resemblance myself.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

With him knowing that Akai and Sera are related, I think dodging around the answer would be pointless if he is talking about Shuu.

Just to make sure we are on the same page, I am asserting that Conan could be using Masumi's prior testimony that Mom, Masumi, Shuuichi all look alike to reach the conclusion that the girl is the mother. In order to reach that conclusion, Conan needed to know that Masumi and Shuuichi were siblings for sure, and he got confirmation just last chapter, thus making this line of thought relevant. While Sera's parentage seems totally obvious to us viewers, if you check the list of clues that Sera was Akai's sister, most of them were things Conan was not aware of: the name clue, Andre Camel and James Black finding her familiar, Sera chasing Scar Akai, sleeptalking on the mystery train, etc. I don't think hiding Conan's conclusion from the reader is pointless because if Conan came out and said what he thought at this stage, it would ruin the mystery girl's identity.

 

That said, Haibara is also a good candidate because it would back the popular sisters theory.

[Heliotropic 139]

Just to make sure we are on the same page, I am asserting that Conan could be using Masumi's prior testimony that Mom, Masumi, Shuuichi all look alike to reach the conclusion that the girl is the mother. In order to reach that conclusion, Conan needed to know that Masumi and Shuuichi were siblings for sure, and he got confirmation just last chapter, thus making this line of thought relevant. While Sera's parentage seems totally obvious to us viewers, if you check the list of clues that Sera was Akai's sister, most of them were things Conan was not aware of: the name clue, Andre Camel and James Black finding her familiar, Sera chasing Scar Akai, sleeptalking on the mystery train, etc. I don't think hiding Conan's conclusion from the reader is pointless because if Conan came out and said what he thought at this stage, it would ruin the mystery girl's identity.

 

That said, Haibara is also a good candidate because it would back the popular sisters theory.

 

Yep, we are on the same page 

 

I think it is a possibility that he could be coming to the conclusion, or at least starting to think that the MG might be the mother. If not now, when will he? Imo, I'd still find it a bit out of place for Conan to come to that realization at this point. I think Masumi's hint was a bit ambiguous since she never did say that they looked like their mother (but it's a pretty safe assumption given her wording and how often she thinks she will inherit some of her mother's "traits")

 

However, I think the interruption and follow up would still be pointless if he comes to the conclusion that Shuu is the one that resembles the MG "other than" Sera. I think this is obvious to even Conan at this point, though it could just be to further establish it by saying they resemble each other, or give a recap of sorts. I wouldn't say it's pointless if it weren't for the revelations in the last case (now that he knows he is her brother, he knows they already resemble each other). Though this is just one of a couple different outcomes...

 

If he is referring to Haibara, it would certainly finally give the two mothers mystery some further traction since this hasn't even been brought up in the manga, and the possible relation to Elena and the MG is overly subtle at best. It would be a good place to get things started.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

Also I must take back what I assumed about the continuation of Conan's line being " rather, Sera looks like that girl". It seems the most accurate translation is "She looks a lot like Sera, no wait, more than that girl resembling Sera..." (領域外の妹と名乗る... 世良によく似た... いや...　あの子世良というより..... )." It does appear that Conan has someone else in mind. Haibara is one guess, Shuuichi is another. Both are good guesses. Since Masumi made a big deal of Mom, Me, Shuuichi all look alike, Conan could be following that line of thinking to its logical conclusion. He could also be seeing the similarity to Haibara if Elena and Mary are sisters.

Also, we can't dismiss the possibility that he's starting to remember MG's true appearance from the past, that is to say if that time he met her was before she shrank...

But I'm pretty sure Gosho was subtly hinting at haibara, not only with her timed interruption, but also with her convient eye-bags she appeared with just to draw more similarities to MG!

[Guest]

Since Masumi made a big deal of Mom, Me, Shuuichi all look alike, 

 

Its kind of weird because Masumi never actually states that, I think its mostly a fan inference. What she says is that her Middle brother resembles the father, but she and her oldest brother don't. 

 

The father has been mentioned twice though, in the image below (from Bowling Alley case) and during Red Woman case when the father is mentioned to be dead. 

 

The only implication that the Masumi resembles the mother is when Conan says that MG resembles Masumi at the end of Red Woman, from there on, people just take it to be implied that Masumi and Shuu resemble her because she must be the mother.

 

[Heliotropic 139]

File 940 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4181860724

Alternate Link: http://imgur.com/a/Tkq6f