Okiya Subaru?

[samoajoesuks 0]

Akai had not heard of Shinichi before he became Okiya. Unlike the case with Haibara who he had met as Shiho, even if he strongly suspected Conan was like her, he had no hints as to who Conan was before. Akai's first hint to who Conan might be came came when Conan lended him the keys to Shinichi's house which he then searched, and then got more later when Ran and Sonoko came over to clean. Also, even though Akai knew about the voice changer, he was confirming Conan was using it to make Shinichi's voice thus proving he was Shinichi.

"Akai's first hint to who Conan might be came came when Conan lended him the keys to Shinichi's house which he then searched"

Disagree.

Akai knew it all along, wouldn't you be curious?

Who is this kid?

What connections does this kid have with the BO?

How does this kid knows about the BO?

How does this kid has so many information about Gin, Vodka & Kir even the boss?

Why is this kid trying so hard to fight with the BO, even considering risking his life?

Why is this kid trying so hard to help the FBI?

If Akai doesn't know or wasn't sure who Conan really is, I would say that he is really STUPID.

He knew it all along from the very beginning and most likely with a very certain & confident answer without having the trouble and excuse to re-confirm his identity.

Also, If Subaru is Akai,

What is the point for Conan trying to hide his true identity from Akai?

Plus having the trouble to ask Ran to tell a lie to Akai that Shinichi is just a normal high school student.

[Schwa 11]

I agree with Chek here. And although it's not a sure-thing I do still see the possibility of Akai being Okiya.

Somoa: All your questions make perfect sense, but in my mind I just don't think Akai bothered to look into the matter any further. Obviously he could tell something was amiss, but how could he figure out any further details without questioning Conan (Assuming Jodie left him in the dark)?

So maybe while Akai is hiding his identity as Okiya he's taking the extra time to figure out just who this genius boy is.

Also, Akai can't reveal himself to Conan since he's under cover, and Conan is taking the extra precaution against Okiya because he's not sure who he is yet.

I don't know if this counts as proof, but I noticed Conan almost trusts Okiya, while Haibara detected his "BO presence" once. Maybe that's because Akai infiltrated the BO once?

Anyways I don't know if Okiya is Akai or not, but I still like to think the possibility is there.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

"Akai's first hint to who Conan might be came came when Conan lended him the keys to Shinichi's house which he then searched"

Disagree.

Akai knew it all along, wouldn't you be curious?

Who is this kid?

What connections does this kid have with the BO?

How does this kid knows about the BO?

How does this kid has so many information about Gin, Vodka & Kir even the boss?

Why is this kid trying so hard to fight with the BO, even considering risking his life?

Why is this kid trying so hard to help the FBI.

If Akai doesn't know or wasn't sure who Conan really is, I would say that he is really STUPID.

He knew it all along from the very beginning and most likely with a very certain & confident answer without having the trouble and excuse to re-confirm his identity.

Basically you are saying that because Akai was curious and really wanted to know Conan's identity, he therefore does know it. Your logic doesn't makes sense because Akai doesn't just magically learn something because he wants to know the truth. You are overlooking that Conan's secret isn't easy to figure out and Akai has to do a lot of investigation to get there.

1) Akai had known and met Shiho before, so when he finally got a good look at Haibara, he could easily connect the two. Akai doesn't know Shinichi and had been out of the country when Shinichi disappeared and thus had missed all of Shinichi's cases in the news and stuff because he was in America.

2) Furthermore, in the middle of all of the stuff going on in the Vermouth arc, we have Shinichi doing things that make him and Conan look like different people to trick Ran, including recruiting Haibara and taking an antidote so that Conan and Shinichi would be in the same place at the same time. Jodie took pictures of this as part of her snooping, so even if Akai had suspicions, they would be dampened by some impossibility he would have to explain.

3) Akai is really busy. He is trying to keep an eye on Haibara, tracking Vermouth, then tracking the Black Org and doing whatever he can to interfere. When Red vs. Black finally rolls around and Akai really gets to meet Conan up close and personal, he's so busy he barely sleeps. Even if he is curious, his research time is going to sapped by his life and job. Now as Okiya, he has free time....

Also, If Subaru is Akai,

What is the point for Conan trying to hide his true identity from Akai?

Plus having the trouble to ask Ran to tell a lie to Akai that Shinichi is just a normal high school student.

(Copied from here)

Conan doesn't want Okiya to learn much about Shinichi - because Conan is paranoid even around friendlies.

Conan hid all his pictures and family albums and told Ran not to talk about Shinichi around Okiya. As stated before, Conan is a paranoid person even when he is pretty sure the people he is cooperating with are friendlies. He didn't trust Jodie right up until Vermouth revealed herself ("The Truth Behind the Mask" 42-9 (433)). Limiting the number of people who know information that could get everyone around you killed is a good idea in general. The syndicate has gotten the better of the FBI in past cases and the org probably spies on the FBI heavily. Thus if it isn’t necessary, Conan would probably prefer the FBI doesn’t know his true identity.

[Silverbullet-kun 20]

Akai wasn't that curious about who conan was when he worked with him and there are possibilities that he already knew conan's identity. Okiya seem to be really curious about Ai and conan unlike Akai's lack of enthusiasm.

And for the people who think Okiya is Akai, then why is he undercover, why doesn't he go back to Jodie, James etc. and why worry them instead upon his death?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Akai wasn't that curious about who conan was when he worked with him and there are possibilities that he already knew conan's identity. Okiya seem to be really curious about Ai and conan unlike Akai's lack of enthusiasm.

I'd love to see you show some evidence of this. Also, Akai was curious. When he was watching Conan call Rena's boss's he asked Jodie about who Conan was, but like I said before, he is busy, and doesn't have much to start from.

And for the people who think Okiya is Akai, then why is he undercover, why doesn't he go back to Jodie, James etc. and why worry them instead upon his death?

Because he is undercover. If Akai thought the rest of the FBI would be able to do a good job of hiding their real reactions and acting well, he would have told them about his plan with Rena and Camel to return her to the Org. But he didn't think so, so he kept it a secret. If he thought the FBI would be able to ask realistically and maintain the secret when he faked his death with Kir and Conan's help he would have told the FBI about it. But he didn't think so, so he kept it a secret. The Black Org is watching the FBI.

http://forum.dctp.ws/index.php?topic=402.msg37837#msg37837

[samoajoesuks 0]

Akai had not heard of Shinichi before he became Okiya. Unlike the case with Haibara who he had met as Shiho.

1) Akai had known and met Shiho before, so when he finally got a good look at Haibara, he could easily connect the two. Akai doesn't know Shinichi and had been out of the country when Shinichi disappeared and thus had missed all of Shinichi's cases in the news and stuff because he was in America.

I am not so sure, but i dont remember any evidence that Akai had met Shiho in the past before.

and quoted this from wiki: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Shiho_Miyano#Shuichi_Akai

Shuichi Akai and Shiho are likely to have known each other via Akemi Miyano, whom Akai was dating. Shiho knew Akai under his alias "Dai Moroboshi", but it is not known if she was aware of his status as a spy and allegiance to the FBI. As Haibara, she is still afraid of and senses the "Black Organization aura" from Akai. Akai recognizes Haibara as Shiho, saying he is not willing to face her yet, likely over guilt related to the incidents culminating in Akemi's death.

Just LIKELY or assumption made.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I am not so sure, but i dont remember any evidence that Akai had met Shiho in the past before.

and quoted this from wiki: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Shiho_Miyano#Shuichi_Akai

Shuichi Akai and Shiho are likely to have known each other via Akemi Miyano, whom Akai was dating. Shiho knew Akai under his alias "Dai Moroboshi", but it is not known if she was aware of his status as a spy and allegiance to the FBI. As Haibara, she is still afraid of and senses the "Black Organization aura" from Akai. Akai recognizes Haibara as Shiho, saying he is not willing to face her yet, likely over guilt related to the incidents culminating in Akemi's death.

Just LIKELY or assumption made.

Akai has met Shiho in person because 1) His mission was to get close to Shiho using Akemi in order to gain entry and status to move up the Organization. This would be hard to do without some face to face time. 2) Akai said at the end of the Vermouth showdown he was not ready to face to Shiho. (V42-10 pg 13) Considering Shiho was lying unconscious on the ground when Akai left he meant it both figuratively and literally. 3) Conan explicitly says that Shiho most likely knows Akai's face. (File 605 pg 9) 4) In recent chapters Haibara remembers Akai (as Dai) with Akemi in pictures rather than just text suggesting that she has seen them together.

[Glass Heart 34]

Chapter 812 spoilers

About the woman involved with Subaru that Masumi discovered the existence, we are naturally led to believe it could be Vermouth (if Subaru is Bourbon) or Yukiko Kudo (who is familiar with the house and who could help Subaru with the disguise), but if it was in fact Fusae Campbell Kinoshita.

For those who don't remember (because it was quiet some time), it was Hiroshi Agasa's lost love who was hinted to have much more importance than the small cameo she was given, and who met Ran and Shinichi during their childhood (even though I wonder HOW Shinichi could still remember a woman he has only met once several years ago). A middle-aged beautiful american-japanese woman, tall, blond, big-chested and wearing a black hat who works now as a famous fashion-designer.

[CHAMDOR 9]

hmmmm... i think subaru is the boss... hehehe... coz haibara can feel it n haibara is a org member right once before?? it's not impossible the subaru is the BOSS!!

yeah me too! i also think okiya subaru is the boss of BO

[detectiveRJB 15]

yeah me too! i also think okiya subaru is the boss of BO

Possible!I think he's CIA.

[WhiSky.13ourBon 0]

am pretty Sure that Okiya Subaru is Akai Right now , But Am not Sure About BourBon yet Since in the last chapter Scar Akai appear again When BourBon starting The Hit Order On Sherry But The Okuya Subaru Is Akai Theory is 100% sure =)

[Ace Detective 1]

I believe Okiya is Akai for sure. There is no way that Conan would be able to trust him so much and let him live in his house even after sherry got the BO feeling from him unless Conan knew for sure who he was. Also Okiya has been able to use Conan's gadgets as well. Since it obvious Akai death was fake, he wouldn't go back to the FBI since the BO probably have someone on the inside and would find out he was still alive and kill Rena right away. Okiya makes the most sense since he matches Akai perfectly, I really don't think it could be anyone else.

[Silverbullet-kun 20]

It's confirmed that Okiya has some connection with Vermouth in Chapter 820-821.

[kyyo 9]

^ Who knows if that woman in black is actually Vermouth. o:

Spoilers for latest chapter.

(Conan seemingly trusted him rather quickly, so humm it makes me wonder about that specific line Conan said, something along the lines of: "Any Sherlock Holmes fan is a good guy" or something like that. xD; Why that specific? Huh, Idk, I don't really try to go too deep into it. So if we truck along the path, it's not a far stretch to guess that Okiya could be Yuusaku and the woman is Yukiko. And I've heard some theories about maybe when that woman crossed the path of Scar Akai, -Yukiko- whispered something to "him; Vermoouth in disguise" and be like: "You suck at make up now, eh?" ohoho.;; )

But personally I really wish Okiya is Bourbon, he's already too suspicious and it's like a double bluff Gosho made. xD Make Okiya seem so suspicious that people think he's Akai when he's not. -shot-

[NinjaRyuAce 0]

It's confirmed that Okiya has some connection with Vermouth in Chapter 820-821.

It's not confirmed. Although that woman resembles Vermouth the top part of her face is hidden by her hat the entire time. For all we know, when Gosho reveals her entire face she could be an entirely different character working with Okiya Subaru for a different purpose than the BO's.

Spoilers for Files 819-821

So it's confirmed now that Amuro, Subaru, Masumi (all three hinted at being potential candidates for Bourbon), scar Akai (also speculated by fans to possibly be Bourbon) are four different people, since they have all appeared together at the same time on the Bell Tree Express Train. Also on the train are Vermouth and Bourbon. In Chapter 820 Subaru was seen in a room with a lady who resembles Vermouth, but her identity is not certain because the top part of her face is covered. In Chapter 821, Haibara receives an ominous text message from Vermouth. She prepares to take the drug (presumably APTX 4869) to change herself but Subaru intervenes, stating he has predicted her moves and makes a reference to her late sister. In addition, scar Shuichi passes by the lady who looks like Vermouth on the train, and she seems to tell him something that alarms him as they cross each other. Immediately after, Masumi confronts scar Shuichi, demanding to know who he is. Scar Shuichi replies, "You haven't changed one bit Masumi." At this time he lifts his face so she can see it clearly and she is taken aback, only managing to utter, "Shuu-nii" (-nii is the honorific used to address older brothers).

Mod Note: Please do not double post. Edit your previous post instead.

[detectiveRJB 15]

It's not confirmed. Although that woman resembles Vermouth the top part of her face is hidden by her hat the entire time. For all we know, when Gosho reveals her entire face she could be an entirely different character working with Okiya Subaru for a different purpose than the BO's.

Spoilers for Files 819-821

So it's confirmed now that Amuro, Subaru, Masumi (all three hinted at being potential candidates for Bourbon), scar Akai (also speculated by fans to possibly be Bourbon) are four different people, since they have all appeared together at the same time on the Bell Tree Express Train. Also on the train are Vermouth and Bourbon. In Chapter 820 Subaru was seen in a room with a lady who resembles Vermouth, but her identity is not certain because the top part of her face is covered. In Chapter 821, Haibara receives an ominous text message from Vermouth. She prepares to take the drug (presumably APTX 4869) to change herself but Subaru intervenes, stating he has predicted her moves and makes a reference to her late sister. In addition, scar Shuichi passes by the lady who looks like Vermouth on the train, and she seems to tell him something that alarms him as they cross each other. Immediately after, Masumi confronts scar Shuichi, demanding to know who he is. Scar Shuichi replies, "You haven't changed one bit Masumi." At this time he lifts his face so she can see it clearly and she is taken aback, only managing to utter, "Shuu-nii" (-nii is the honorific used to address older brothers).

Mod Note: Please do not double post. Edit your previous post instead.

he's possible Bourbon,CIA,Astushi Miyano or Anokata.

[ValleyofFear 1]

If Okiya is Boubon, then Ai would be dead by now since the BO knows what she looks like as a child and Bourbon is good at gathering informtion so I don't think that he's Okiya.

Someone tell me if it's been said before but I don't think Okiya is Akai. If so, why did Ai try to look under Okiya's scarf? Most likely to check if there's anything on his neck and since she thought that he might be Akai at the time, I think it's safe to say that Akai has something like a scar on his neck but we clearly know that Okiya doesn't have anything on his neck as Sonoko and Ran confirmed.

Shinichi has like 3 look-alikes in the series. I don't think it'd be that weird that Akai has one too.

[Ace Detective 1]

If Okiya is Boubon, then Ai would be dead by now since the BO knows what she looks like as a child and Bourbon is good at gathering informtion so I don't think that he's Okiya.

Someone tell me if it's been said before but I don't think Okiya is Akai. If so, why did Ai try to look under Okiya's scarf? Most likely to check if there's anything on his neck and since she thought that he might be Akai at the time, I think it's safe to say that Akai has something like a scar on his neck but we clearly know that Okiya doesn't have anything on his neck as Sonoko and Ran confirmed.

Shinichi has like 3 look-alikes in the series. I don't think it'd be that weird that Akai has one too.

Ai knows a bit about Akai most likely from dating her sister so if she was going for the scarf it was most likely something that would reveal that Okiya is Akai. This makes the most sense to me. Also it doesn't have be a scar it could be a birthmark or something of the sort on a part of his neck or chest we haven't seen.

[Rukia Kurosaki 357]

Awright, I just read 822, so there could be spoilers or just opinions. If scar Akai was actually 'Sharon,' who is also Vermouth, and according to her reaction the supposed Vermouth who was with Subaru is Kudo Yukiko, does that mean Okiya is actually Shinichi's dad, Yuusaku????

[TML 18]

Awright, I just read 822, so there could be spoilers or just opinions. If scar Akai was actually 'Sharon,' who is also Vermouth, and according to her reaction the supposed Vermouth who was with Subaru is Kudo Yukiko, does that mean Okiya is actually Shinichi's dad, Yuusaku????

I doubt it. Although this particular Scar Akai was Vermouth, we cannot necessarily say the same for the previous Scar Akais we saw, since the previous Scar Akais apparently did not give Ai the same scent that the current one did. I also see too many problems with the theory of Okiya being Yusaku, see the analysis in this section for details.

[Akai1412 0]

I'd be pretty miffed if Okiya does turn out to be Yuusaku, besides, Ai shouldn't get a BO scent from Yuusaku. Anyway the time we saw Scar Akai during the mall bombing case, Vermouth was shown with Gin, Vodka and Kir, so we know that Vermouth wasn't Scar Akai before...at least she wasn't during the mall bombing case. Okiya was there too.

[ValleyofFear 1]

I'd be pretty miffed if Okiya does turn out to be Yuusaku, besides, Ai shouldn't get a BO scent from Yuusaku. Anyway the time we saw Scar Akai during the mall bombing case, Vermouth was shown with Gin, Vodka and Kir, so we know that Vermouth wasn't Scar Akai before...at least she wasn't during the mall bombing case. Okiya was there too.

Maybe Sharon Vineyard and Chris Vineyard are not the same person?? Has anyone thought of that possibility? I have for a long time now.

[Akai1412 0]

Maybe Sharon Vineyard and Chris Vineyard are not the same person?? Has anyone thought of that possibility? I have for a long time now.

Vermouth burnt down Jodie's house down 20 years prior and left fingerprints on her father's glasses. The fingerprints matched up with Sharon Vineyard's / Chris Vineyard's fingerprints proving that they are indeed the same person. Chris attended "Sharon's" funeral, so she's supposed to be dead, so how does Chris' fingerprints match Sharon's? They are the same person. Vermouth is an extraordinarily talented person, but she cannot split herself into two people

This is the article on Vermouth: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Vermouth#Jodie.27s_discovery_Chris_Vineyard.2C_Sharon_Vineyard_and_Vermouth_are_the_same_person

That probably explains it better than I do.

[ValleyofFear 1]

Vermouth burnt down Jodie's house down 20 years prior and left fingerprints on her father's glasses. The fingerprints matched up with Sharon Vineyard's / Chris Vineyard's fingerprints proving that they are indeed the same person. Chris attended "Sharon's" funeral, so she's supposed to be dead, so how does Chris' fingerprints match Sharon's? They are the same person. Vermouth is an extraordinarily talented person, but she cannot split herself into two people

This is the article on Vermouth: http://www.detective...the_same_person

That probably explains it better than I do.

True, with what we've got now it seems that they are the same person. However, we don't know where Jodie got the fingerprint of Vermouth. It could have been forged to trick the FBI because that is very possible, especially with a big criminal organization. Forging fingerprint would be very useful to them in other ways as well.

[Rukia Kurosaki 357]

Whatever's happened, I'm still hoping Subaru is Shuichi, although I don't believe he ever met Shinichi's mother.