[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 948–950: The Clenched Scissors

February 18, 2016

On 2/17/2016 at 10:58 PM, DCUniverseAficionado said:

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If bash, presume, spimer and ALAKTORN (I don't know if he's(?) involved in manga translation) are your sources for this, then that's that.

here is the original Japanese panels (hope the link works) :

http://blog-imgs-86.fc2.com/n/a/g/nagarebosihosihosi/016.jpg

http://blog-imgs-86.fc2.com/n/a/g/nagarebosihosihosi/002.jpg

no pronoun is used at all.

The English translator translates from Bahasa Indonesian, which is translated from Chinese, which is translated from Japanese

There were bound to be errors, even more than just gender pronouns.

Here is some text from Reddit :

TheWatchfulGent: he word used was "diri", which could mean either him/her, and I went with 'her' from the name, 'Asaka', and also the little photo of the bodyguard which seemed like a woman to me. But it could be a man, yes.

Wakarimashita: Looks like a woman to me as well. But when not 100% sure, I would advise to use 'they'

TheWatchfulGent: I usually try to, but pronouns in Bahasa Indonesia are gender neutral, so most of the time, you've got to guess from context, which is what I did.

TheWatchfulGent: The gender isn't confirmed yes, but I just assumed it was a woman from the name.

From the Wiki page for Bahasa Indonesian language

=Gender=

Generally Indonesian does not make use of grammatical gender, and there are only selected words that use natural gender. For instance, the same word is used for he/him and she/her (dia/ia) or for his and her (dia/ia/-nya). A majority of Indonesian words that refer to people generally have a form that does not distinguish between the sexes. However, unlike English, distinction is made between older or younger.

Chekhov MacGuffin · February 18, 2016

While on the topic of the accuracy of translations, if anyone has a Japanese transcription of just the top half of page 4 (the 3 panels with haibara talking about her parents death and the drug), I would like to see it. The things said in these panels have significant implications:

1) Whether the Miyanos has more than one project they working on. "An early prototype of a drug made by my parents" = implies multiple projects pretty clearly vs. "an early prototype of the drug made by my parents" = APTX definitely existed back then, one or multiple projects still ambiguous.

2) The other drug from Haibara's thoughts.

3) The identity of the "they", Miyanos or BO, who wanted Haibara to work on that other drug. They lead to very different theoretical outcomes because the two have different motivations, especially if we find out Elena is linked to MI6 via her sister. Also might resolve why the Miyanos left their daughters at the mercy of the Black Organization (They planned a mission for Shiho?)

February 18, 2016

On 2/18/2016 at 1:01 AM, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

While on the topic of the accuracy of translations, if anyone has a Japanese transcription of just the top half of page 4 (the 3 panels with haibara talking about her parents death and the drug), I would like to see it. The things said in these panels have significant implications:

1) Whether the Miyanos has more than one project they working on. "An early prototype of a drug made by my parents" = implies multiple projects pretty clearly vs. "an early prototype of the drug made by my parents" = APTX definitely existed back then, one or multiple projects still ambiguous.

2) The other drug from Haibara's thoughts.

3) The identity of the "they", Miyanos or BO, who wanted Haibara to work on that other drug. They lead to very different theoretical outcomes because the two have different motivations, especially if we find out Elena is linked to MI6 via her sister. Also might resolve why the Miyanos left their daughters at the mercy of the Black Organization (They planned a mission for Shiho?)

http://blog-imgs-86.fc2.com/n/a/g/nagarebosihosihosi/011.jpg

http://blog-imgs-86.fc2.com/n/a/g/nagarebosihosihosi/031.jpg

There is no "They" in that sentence.

Chekhov MacGuffin · February 18, 2016

On 2/18/2016 at 1:14 AM, jimmy-kud0-tv2 said:

http://blog-imgs-86.fc2.com/n/a/g/nagarebosihosihosi/011.jpg

http://blog-imgs-86.fc2.com/n/a/g/nagarebosihosihosi/031.jpg

There is no "They" in that sentence.

多分, その薬は私の父と母が作った薬、私は焼け残った資料をかき集めてその薬を復活させただけだから・・・

父と母の研究所が火事になって、薬の資料と一緒に２人共焼死したのよ・・・組織の人たちからは不運な事故だったと聞かされてたけど・・・

まぁ、私が本当に作らされていたのは、別の薬なんだけどね・・・

There is some sort of horrible combination of passive tense and te form in that last line, which I presume is meant to be terribly evasive and leave the subject vague.

MeiTanteixX · February 18, 2016

Here's My Summary and Deduction for FILE 948-949:

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Heliotropic · February 18, 2016

On 2/18/2016 at 10:20 PM, MeiTanteixX said:

Here's My Summary and Deduction for FILE 948-949:

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17 years ago(Summary):

* Haneda Kouji Crime Scene(hotel room):

- Cause of death is declared unkown(APTX4869) but his body has shown signs of struggle

- plates and crockery broken to pieces on the floor, and a small mirror(that was originally engraved with "PUT ON MASCARA") with missing letters ("U" & "MASCARA")

- The water tab was left on

- Haneda was visited by Amanda Hughes before the murder

- Haneda was tightly holding a scissor

* Amanda Huges is a very influtential american investor that has contacts within FBI & CIA!

* Amanda Hughes' Crime Scene was also in a hotel room and it was messy as well

* Suspect is Amanda's bodyguard, "Asaka":

- disappeared after the crime

- Asaka has long black tied hair

- Asaka is seemingly dark-skinned

- Relatives/acquaintances don't know how Amanda hired Asaka

Now(Summary):

* The president of a real estate company Hiyama Kunishima's Crime Scene(Guest House):

- Hiyama was initially attacked in another room, then fled to the bathroom, where he was finished off

- Hiyama was struck on the head and the murder weapon is missing

- Glass shards from a broken "FUSAE BRAND" glass was found on the floor.

- the water tab was left on

- there was a mop inside that was suspected to be the murder weapon until it was proved wrong

- Hiyama was tightly holding a scissor

- Paste of honey was found on the wound of the victim

- After two loud 'Pong' sounds from the roof, a yellow-coloured ball was found outside a mini-window, near the toilet, and another object(presumed to be the murder weapon) was found under the main house. ants were found marching in a single file towards the unknown object.

- There's a park near the guest house

* Sweet shop owner Senba Kazutoku is the suspect(the first discoverer):

- bodyguards found only Yaiba action-figure(with an unattached "cloth") in a plastic bag and a paper with pictures of dolls on Senba, before letting him enter the guest house.

- his shirt is buttoned on incorrectly and not tucked in well.

- he hurt his left foot because he claims he stepped on the glass shards when he rushed to the victim

- his sandal has a clean glass shard pierced through it and the sandal is bloody on the in- and outside

- he holds on to his right leg when walking because of a previous accident that wounded it

Deduction:

The murderer is obviously Senba!

* This is what could have possibly happened:

- Murder weapon:

The murder weapon is a jar with honey(frozen(?))! he had brought it in using a trick(which will be explained soon)! after using it to kill(which left a paste of honey on the victim by accident), he started to heat it up a bit by running hot water over the jar in order to liquefy the honey, then he placed it outside the small window so that its aroma can attract the ants that will eventually carry the jar away from the window. Ants can carry up to at least 50 times their weight.

- The Trick:

What I think the key points to solving the trick of the murder weapon is "the yellow ball", "the park nearby", "the toys and paper with pictures of dolls" and "the mop"! What Senba did was making a agreement with a kid he found playing in the park. He told the kid to throw the yellow ball, and the honey jar(which might've been frozen in order for it to not break(?)) over the fence at a certain time(from an angle that would make them land close to the small window). The two "PONG" sounds the bodyguards heard was from these two items he asked the kid to throw. What the kid would gain in return was the toys/paper with picture of dolls. the reason he brought an action-figure toy and picture of dolls was because he wasn't certain whether he would meet up with a boy or girl in the park. after they landed close to the window, he used the mop to bring the honey jar closer to the window, before the bodyguard arrived. the reason he threw a yellow ball was so that the bodyguards would mistake the "Pong" sound for a simple accident by kids playing rather than it being related to the case.

* Thoughts on the murder scene:

It was discussed before that maybe the missing letters of the "PUT ON MASCARA" mirror was meant to be a dying message. It's possible that Hiyama intentionally broke the "FUSAE BRAND" glass in order to take the letters from it that would make out "SENBA". One possible thing that Okiya and Conan noticed with the sandal pierced with a glass shard is the fact that the glass shard wasn't bloody at all, at the tip that supposedly hit the left foot. That could indicate that Senba faked his accidental injury(hurt himself intentionally) and pierced the glass through the sandal himself in order to hide something. The reason Senba wears his clothes in such an untidy way is possibly because he rushed when he was trying to wear his shirt inside out, in order to hide the victim's blood, but since it's blood we are talking about, it's weird that it wouldn't become visible through a white shirt, so maybe that's unlikely. You wouldn't hold the scissor the way Hiyama/Kouji held it if you wanted to use it to break the glass/mirror, so the scissors' purpose has to be something else. Why the sink was left on is still a mystery to me. Maybe Senba wanted to make sure there wasn't any bits of honey or blood left on sink(after washing the honey jar). Lastly, the motive might have to do with the accident Senba was in a month ago as well as Hiyama approaching Senba's son.

* Thoughts on what happened 17 years ago:

Another possiblity one can consider is if Asaka's true identity was Akai's father. Since Amanda had contacts within the FBI, maybe James recommended his old friend Mr. Akai to be her bodyguard. That explains how her relatives/acquaintances didn't know how he was hired, because Mr. Akai wanted keep his connection to Amanda a secret(for security purposes) and even went as far as having a fake name. Akai mentioned that his father was involved, and that his involvement led to Akai joining the FBI. If his father was framed by the BO for the murder of Haneda and Amanda, no wonder Akai grew a grudge against them. As for looks, since Akai used to have long hair, it's possible he inherited it from his father, hence the feminine hairstyle on the news picture.

Very well summarized. I'm really not sure exactly how he committed the crime, but it's a nice theory. You really put in some effort trying to solve this one

I'm really looking forward to 950, fun case so far though!

I read through 948 and 949 pretty quickly, I need to examine them again a bit later tonight

MeiTanteixX · February 18, 2016

On 2/18/2016 at 11:24 PM, Heliotropic said:

Very well summarized. I'm really not sure exactly how he committed the crime, but it's a nice theory. You really put in some effort trying to solve this one

I'm really looking forward to 950, fun case so far though!

I read through 948 and 949 pretty quickly, I need to examine them again a bit later tonight

Thanks! took me a couple of hours so yeah, I committed to this, and it was worth it! haha

I'm looking forward to 950 even more now since I'd like to know the truth behind the case (main plot aside)!!!

Aniki01 · February 19, 2016

Would it be possible that Asaka is the Akai family mother (hence why Shuichi reveals the case has affected his father)? If this is the case, then it could be that the same person who killed Haneda Kouji gave the drug to Akai's mother, causing her to shrink and become the mysterious child? That would explain why Shuichi wanted to join the FBI, to find his mother, and the fact that Asaka is missing until today would suggest she is the mysterious child. One issue I have with this though is that Shuichi would have said that the case affected his mother as well as his father.

Serinox · February 19, 2016

On 2/19/2016 at 9:45 PM, Aniki01 said:
Would it be possible that Asaka is the Akai family mother (hence why Shuichi reveals the case has affected his father)? If this is the case, then it could be that the same person who killed Haneda Kouji gave the drug to Akai's mother, causing her to shrink and become the mysterious child? That would explain why Shuichi wanted to join the FBI, to find his mother, and the fact that Asaka is missing until today would suggest she is the mysterious child. One issue I have with this though is that Shuichi would have said that the case affected his mother as well as his father.

That could be a bit problematic with Masumi's birth though; 17 years ago is roughly when she was born, so the Akai mother must've just come out of pregnancy for that to work. Why would someone who recently had a child be working as a bodyguard so shortly after?

Uchiha Shadow · February 20, 2016

On 2/19/2016 at 10:18 PM, Serinox said:
That could be a bit problematic with Masumi's birth though; 17 years ago is roughly when she was born, so the Akai mother must've just come out of pregnancy for that to work. Why would someone who recently had a child be working as a bodyguard so shortly after?

Exactly.

Heliotropic · February 20, 2016

Text Spoilers 950

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Aniki01 · February 20, 2016

On 2/19/2016 at 10:18 PM, Serinox said:
That could be a bit problematic with Masumi's birth though; 17 years ago is roughly when she was born, so the Akai mother must've just come out of pregnancy for that to work. Why would someone who recently had a child be working as a bodyguard so shortly after?

That's a good point your raise there, it wouldn't really make sense if Asaka was Sera's mother as she would be unfit to act as a body guard. But I just remembered how Shukichi refers to Kyoji as his "brother-in-law/step brother." Wouldn't this suggest that there was possibly another woman that was married to the Akai family father? I'm not sure of who exactly can qualify as a "brother-in-law" to Shukichi.

Uchiha Shadow · February 20, 2016

On 2/20/2016 at 11:54 AM, Aniki01 said:
That's a good point your raise there, it wouldn't really make sense if Asaka was Sera's mother as she would be unfit to act as a body guard. But I just remembered how Shukichi refers to Kyoji as his "brother-in-law/step brother." Wouldn't this suggest that there was possibly another woman that was married to the Akai family father? I'm not sure of who exactly can qualify as a "brother-in-law" to Shukichi.

Since it also means step brother, I'd say that's the more likely one, the Haneda family adopted him and so they became step brothers, as for Asaka

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Aniki01 · February 20, 2016

On 2/20/2016 at 11:56 AM, Uchiha Shadow said:

Since it also means step brother, I'd say that's the more likely one, the Haneda family adopted him and so they became step brothers, as for Asaka

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The spoilers imply that Asaka is RUM or is related to him.

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Uchiha Shadow · February 20, 2016

On 2/20/2016 at 12:04 PM, Aniki01 said:

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Oh I see, That would explain Asaka's disappearance until today. Do you have any theories regarding what Akai said about how the case affected his father? Would that simply be because of his step-brother Kyoji's death?.

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DCUniverseAficionado · February 20, 2016

Translation of the 950 spoiler text by Spimer:

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File 950: The Clipped Letters

Conan is going to explain why the 1st discoverer didn't have something that looked like a weapon using a capsule toy he had Takagi buy. (The toy "figure" the man had on him is a critical part of the trick).

Conan takes out the toy inside the capsule and stuffs a marble and honey inside to then seal it with tape so that it doesn't leak.

He has Takagi throw this capsule plus a color ball towards the rooftop yet only the color ball drops to the ground. Conan has Takagi stay outside and watch out and they go back inside the building.

The 1st discoverer said that he entered further inside because there was no-one but Okiya denies that. Okiya says that the victim came out to greet him but the 1st discoverer said "Can I use your toilet?". Okiya goes into the toilet and uses that small window on ground level to retrieve the capsule. Given how it has a marble and honey inside then it rolls very slowly and falls down the roof's rain water drain pipe to land next to the window.

Conan put a marble inside but if it was an iron ball which, if put inside of a sock, becomes a great weapon.

The culprit then can wash the splattered blood in the bathroom and wipe clean the body with toilet paper.

The man stepped on purpose on the glass to make up the excuse of "I'm not wearing socks".

He then called the bodyguards and while they were distracted he made the capsule roll under the ground and that should've allowed for him to get rid of the evidence but due to the ant row the capsule got retrieved by the forensics. The blood that was in the socks save for the heel is the victim's and there's a Luminol reaction in the bathroom.

The culprit doesn't say what his motive was but it'd seem that the car accident which hospitalized the culprit was arranged by the victim. By the time he'd exited the hospital his candy store was a mess because of a lot of iron balls so he used one as a weapon as payback.

As for why the victim died holding the scissors that was to leave behind a dying message. If you cut a glass cup inside of water then you can cut it without it becoming small pieces. You can't prevent the small pieces from cutting you so it's not safe but it the man was about to die then it doesn't matter.

The victim used the "FUSAE BRAND" letters to make up "SENBA", the culprit's name. He left the other letters glued so that the culprit wouldn't notice. Done like that it can be made to look like he simply smashed the glass agaisnt the wall.

Conan and Okiya, by noticing this, they realize something far more important than this case. Conan gets into Agasa's car while Okiya calls Jodie to come with a car. Conan and Okiya (separately) use their PCs to look back at the Haneda Kouji case files and by looking at the smashed mirror photos they decipher a code identical to the one used by the victim.

PUT ON MASCARA - P T ON = U MASCARA

U MASCARA - ASACA = U M R … Umaru-chan! (Note: this "Umaru-chan" is a joke by the text spoilers writer. They obviously know the letters mean RUM but they wanted to make a joke)

Side-note: Have they finally found a clue to the mysterious BO member "RUM"?

BREAK NEXT WEEK

Had a feeling there'd be a break, next week.

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Uncle Sporkums · February 20, 2016

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DCUniverseAficionado · February 21, 2016

On 2/20/2016 at 9:19 PM, Uncle Sporkums said:

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I dunno. If they're announcing it this early, it may be a Red (no pun intended) herring. It seems weird that the number 2 agent in the Org would be Akai's mother and another potential spy. If true, however, it would put an end to the whole men/distilled women/light spirits code names.

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Aries Bless · February 21, 2016

What I'm curious about is who did Haneda Koji intend should get the dying message, and how was he aware of the BO? The FBI? CIA?

About the states of the rooms. I have a guess on why they were messed up. The plan might have been to only kill Amanda and hope that, since the drug couldn't be traced, that a doctor would declare her death to be of 'natural causes' or 'old age' because she was an old woman. But something happened that made it nessesary for BO to kill Koji. The killer and Koji fought and after they had succesed killing him, the killer realized that the police would be connect the two deaths, since Koji was killed by the same drug as Amanda. And while the drug couldn't be traced, the police might think they both were killed by the same thing. Koji's death couldn't be passed off as 'natural causes' or 'old age' because he was much younger than Amanda. So they decided to stage Amanda's hotel room to be messy like Koji, probably to confused the investigation.

Aniki01 · February 21, 2016

On 2/21/2016 at 8:53 AM, DCUniverseAficionado said:

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You think Asaka is Shuichi's mother? Why? Asaka's gender was never specified, and even in that photo from 948, it doesn't look like Mary.

But since Gosho said Koji's name was a red herring (he didn't say it, specifically, of course), who knows if this will lead to anything besides some answers to Akai family questions.

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Aniki01 · February 21, 2016

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DCUniverseAficionado · February 21, 2016

On 2/21/2016 at 9:39 AM, Aniki01 said:

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If you re-read Chapter 948, you'll find that Conan says, "The bodyguard was called 'Asaka' by Amanda, and she is still the prime suspect in both cases." So I think it's safe to say that Asaka is a female unless Conan made a mistake and just assumed she was female without knowing.

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Aniki01 · February 21, 2016

On 2/21/2016 at 9:54 AM, DCUniverseAficionado said:

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The one who translated 948 into English didn't translate it from Japanese. Those who did say that Asaka's gender is not specified.

Actually, I, too, made an incorrect statement about Asaka's gender being female, earlier.

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Patronus Charm · February 21, 2016

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DCUniverseAficionado · February 21, 2016

On 2/21/2016 at 7:41 PM, Arashi13 said:

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RUM is Bishonen Jokes aside, do we know if "Asaka" is a last name or a first name? If it's a first name I can see why some assume it as a female.

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[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 948–950: The Clenched Scissors

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