[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 954-957: A song named ASACA

[gas057 19]

Just because there is a picture of Vermouth in the background, doesn't mean Ran actually remembers her face. In the Aquarium flashback, there is a picture of Eri shown in the background when Shinichi talks about her, but we know for sure that he doesn't remember her face at that point, so he couldn't have thought of that image and it was just for the readers. Ran never turned around once she got to Haibara, so she couldn't have seen Vermouth screaming like this.

Don't ruin this for me XD I've been waiting so long for Ran to finally be involved because it will go against Shinichi's reason for keeping his identity secret.

I hope in future chapters Ran will star to question Shinichi's disappearance more, I just really want to see an interesting progression with Ran cuz she is a fun character

[Serinox 127]

Don't ruin this for me XD I've been waiting so long for Ran to finally be involved because it will go against Shinichi's reason for keeping his identity secret.

I hope in future chapters Ran will star to question Shinichi's disappearance more, I just really want to see an interesting progression with Ran cuz she is a fun character

I hope for the same, but how would this make that happen? Ran already knows that she, Conan, Haibara and Jodie were involved with a crime back then. Even if she'd remember the face of the kidnapper, what would that accomplish? How would that get her involved in the whole BO business?

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

956 is out:

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4473516760

 

Here are some translations by PresumeNothing, on the DCTP spoiler box:

 

p3: Sonoko and Ran say Rokumichi's image had changed lately – when Conan asks what changed, Ran says the impression he gave people, Sonoko says it's probably the face

 

p6-7: Okiya (thinking) "It's no use..." "It's impossible..." Akai (flashback) "Give up, Scotch..." Amuro (thinking) "Back then, that guy's right hand was clearly stained with fresh blood..." "But there was no blood on the tip of his thumb and the back of his hand..." "Which means that guy pulled the trigger himself with his thumb..." "And shot himself to death..." "The one who gave that guy the gun... and forced him to do that Akai Shuuichi..." "For a man as skilled as him, he should've been able to give many options other than making him commit suicide..."

 

p8: Vermouth "Hey, what's wrong?" Amuro "Eh?" Vermouth "You've been glaring at that man since just now, is something wrong?" Amuro "Ah, no..." Vermouth "Even though it's fine with me, but can you hurry up... and solve this murder?" "Because staying here for long while maintaining a disguise is very dangerous..." Amuro "That's true..."

 

p15-6: forensics tech "Please move away..." Ran (thinking) "Move away..." "Move away..." Vermouth (flashback) "Move away, hurry up and leave the blond girl..." "If you don't want to die then hurry up..." "Hey, hurry up..." "Move it, Angel!!" Ran (thinking) "That's right... back then, the one who was planning to kidnap Conan-kun and Ai-chan..." "That suspicious woman, that's how she addressed me... even though I didn't see her face..."

 

Shadow: "But why did she address me in the same way as that woman..." "Azusa-san..." "Why?"

[EthanHunter 7]

Perhaps you missed it, but that was translated over on DCTP:

Ah thanks! I see, I see, so he "thought" that part and didn't say it right?

Regarding the case:

 

So the Vermouth/Ran clash seems to be going nowhere, it seems like Ran will have some suspicion and thing the Azusa was the kidnapper, but when she meets Azusa next time both of them will be confused as Azusa wouldn't know what she is talking about and cause Ran to be confused. Anyway it was careless for Vermouth to disguise as someone Ran interacts with quite often, maybe dressing up as a stranger Amura claims to know would have been a better choice... but on top of that calling her Angel was going too far.

 

Besides one thing I don't get is why doesn't Conan know about it, I mean he never asked Haibara or Jodie what happened after he was knocked out? Didn't Ran have to be carried since she was unconscious? I mean how can he possibly not know that part? He does know about Akai coming and saving them right?(Though that doesn't matter now anyway I think)

 

Btw Scotch' death seems a little bit different from Hondou's. It seems to me that Scotch didn't know who Akai was, and Akai gave him the gun and let him kill himself. I still want to find out more about what the victim knew about Rum though, would be interesting if they find the lyrics somewhere and deduce from it.

 

Oh and also looking forward to the next file and pre-movie anime episode.

[alex-mercer09 1]

Just because there is a picture of Vermouth in the background, doesn't mean Ran actually remembers her face. In the Aquarium flashback, there is a picture of Eri shown in the background when Shinichi talks about her, but we know for sure that he doesn't remember her face at that point, so he couldn't have thought of that image and it was just for the readers. Ran never turned around once she got to Haibara, so she couldn't have seen Vermouth screaming like this.

also reading this reminded me of that aptx victims list which was from vol 18.. it showed haibara thinking about it so that means it was for readers only...

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

So the Vermouth/Ran clash seems to be going nowhere, it seems like Ran will have some suspicion and thing the Azusa was the kidnapper, but when she meets Azusa next time both of them will be confused as Azusa wouldn't know what she is talking about and cause Ran to be confused.

 

If you mean, this will not immediately lead to something, I'll grant how probable that is. But "nothing?" Let's wait until 957 before even thinking of passing judgment on this.

 

Vermouth really has no reason to be there other than making Ran think of the pier incident, so this must, at the very least, have the purpose of having Shinichi/Conan discover that Ran saved Shiho/Ai while he was unconscious. I wonder what his reaction will be to the thought that if Ran hadn't gotten involved, Shiho/Ai would be dead?

 

Any revelations involving the pier incident directly pertain to Ran's knowledge of things, and her connection to Shinichi/Conan, Shiho/Ai, and Vermouth.

[Rohan136 1]

So the Vermouth/Ran clash seems to be going nowhere, it seems like Ran will have some suspicion and thing the Azusa was the kidnapper, but when she meets Azusa next time both of them will be confused as Azusa wouldn't know what she is talking about and cause Ran to be confused.

 

Btw Scotch' death seems a little bit different from Hondou's. It seems to me that Scotch didn't know who Akai was, and Akai gave him the gun and let him kill himself.

Regarding the Vermouth/Ran clash, it probably won't lead to much immediately, but seeing as how her suspicion on Conan built up over a veeeeery long time (though her suspicion was thwarted several times by Conan), maybe she will in the far far future come to realise (through Shinichi's mom maybe or more slip-ups by Vermouth?) that she is in fact Sharon.

 

and maybe even lead to a change of heart and side for Vermouth (okay, I accept this one is a really long shot, but one of the main roles that Ran seems to be satisfying in the manga is to get people to be better people, and the affect on Vermouth has been extremely profound till now. She came from being a person who didn't believe in good things happening to good people to trying her level best to save Ran anyhow after just one incident.)

 

IDK maybe this is just a personal wish or something, but I want Vermouth to turn to the good side. (ignore this tho)

 

 

The theory that Akai would give the gun to Scotch to shoot himself has a few flaws - first off, Scotch definitely knew Akai's identity, else he could have asked Amuro to take the blame (coz what's the point of getting a random BO member to go up the ranks)

It has been made clear that Akai did not know who he killed - as he says it  almost seemed like killing a ghost and his expression says the same, and it is highly unlikely that Akai would kill someone (or allow someone to die) without full knowledge about that person.

There is really no reason that Akai could give to Scotch to, in any manner,  persuade him to kill himself.

[Serinox 127]

Ah thanks! I see, I see, so he "thought" that part and didn't say it right?

Uh, no, he said that out loud. Those are speech bubbles on the page and not thought bubbles.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

The theory that Akai would give the gun to Scotch to shoot himself has a few flaws - first off, Scotch definitely knew Akai's identity, else he could have asked Amuro to take the blame (coz what's the point of getting a random BO member to go up the ranks)

It has been made clear that Akai did not know who he killed - as he says it  almost seemed like killing a ghost and his expression says the same, and it is highly unlikely that Akai would kill someone (or allow someone to die) without full knowledge about that person.

How is Scotch knowing Shuichi's identity a flaw? It's likely why Scotch would allow himself to die like that. And what blame? The BO would reward a member for disposing of a traitor—look what happened with Hidemi/Rena/Kir.

 

What's knowledge got to do with it? Shuichi/Dai isn't going to disobey a BO order to kill a traitor, lest he, himself, be outed as one.

 

What is clear is that shooting through Scotch's phone and preventing the BO from learning anymore about him was on purpose.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I said this on the cbox, but I'll repeat here. My working theory is that Akai knew Scotch was an infiltrator but not vice versa. Akai didn't feel comfortable telling Scotch for whatever reason, the typical Akai behavior. Either Bourbon or Scotch slipped (my opinion is Bourbon) and Scotch took the fall for it. Akai went to confront him and revealed his FBI allegiance (The scene where Akai is kabe-don-ning Scotch. Scotch looks panicked because he still thinks Akai is loyal BO at that point in the convo, even though it's obvious a loyal BO wouldn't let Scotch do whatever with a gun while hovering so close they are breathing each others' air ._.). They formed a last minute plan to get Scotch killed in a way that would hide his identity and allow Bourbon to continue. Akai promises Scotch not to reveal Bourbon made the mistake that led up to all of this. Meanwhile Akai regrets not forming an allegiance with Scotch and working together before everything went south because maybe Scotch could have escaped alive. (The reason I don't think that Akai got there after Scotch shot himself is because there is no blood spatter on Akai yet.)

 

Thoughts on the murder case

Rokumichi almost certainly wears contacts/glasses. The harsh face he makes while squinting and the lack of it when his vision was corrected is what caused the change in his face and image.

There was no way Rokumichi was hanged on that rope. That knot doesn't slide to cinch tight like a noose knot. Rokumichi could have easily slipped out if lifted into the air alive. That means he was probably dead before he was hanged on that rope. He must have been killed on the ground and then his dead body was hauled into the air. Okiya speculated you need a huge person to do so, but with proper rope techniques, it is easily possible for a regular size person to hoist a greater weight. The use of various rope configurations (and optionally pulleys) can reduce the force needed to haul a person upwards significantly. That's why mountaineering in relevant to this case, it's the source of the rope know-how. As an example, the simplest configuration, giving a 2:1 mechanical advantage, would be tie down the non-body end of the main rope, then attach a sliding rope winch to the middle of the main rope and pull it. The exact rope configuration details though (and why those chairs are relevant at all) are still unclear to me.

 

The baseball was was used to get the hanging rope over a stage beam so the body could be hauled upward. The thick rope can't be thrown over the high beam by itself, so a string is tried to the non-looped end of the thick rope, the string is tied to the ball, and the ball tossed over the beam. The string is then reeled in to pull the end of the thick rope up and over. Why the murderer didn't recover the ball and string by tugging on it is a mystery to me.

 

Also the vic's sunglasses are missing. He was wearing them in the movie, but not seen with them later.

 

 

Edit: One thing I forgot is that many people are accusing Amuro of irrationally hanging on to his resentment after finding out Akai didn't kill Scotch in cold blood because Amuro now thinks that Akai could have gotten Scotch out of the situation alive. While I don't disagree about Amuro being rather unreasonable, remember Akai did pull off a fabulous fake death plan so Amuro's frustration is sort of justified. Amuro just doesn't know Conan was the mastermind. Sometimes people just become hysterical when someone they deeply care about dies, and unfortunately Gosho seems portray the feeling ham-handedly to the detriment of the likability of the character. Jodie's complete loss of composure, independence, and detective skill when Akai died is a prime example.

[Rohan136 1]

Finally, English translation is here! Okay, in chapter 955, page 13, doesn't Takagi's behaviour seem a little odd? Why does he need handwriting samples from Amuro? Amuro had just arrived at the scene, and also is not even on their suspect list. Yet, Takagi starts with Amuro. Then, there's the bubble with "......" over Conan during this scene. Meaning that he senses something odd with this as well... Dunno, maybe I'm just thinking too much about a little detail

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Finally, English translation is here! Okay, in chapter 955, page 13, doesn't Takagi's behaviour seem a little odd? Why does he need handwriting samples from Amuro? Amuro had just arrived at the scene, and also is not even on their suspect list. Yet, Takagi starts with Amuro. Then, there's the bubble with "......" over Conan during this scene. Meaning that he senses something odd with this as well... Dunno, maybe I'm just thinking too much about a little detail

 

What are you suggesting? That someone has replaced Wataru? Besides Vermouth (and I severely doubt she involved another Organization member, with Ran and Shinichi/Conan in close proximity), who could do that but Kid? And why would Kid do that? 

 

You know, he could just be reacting to the fact that the victim wrote, "I'm sorry."

 

By the way, how come 957 is listed as the final file, in the thread title? Is it just assumed that the next file will be the last one of this case? It's a reasonable assumption, I'd say.

[detConShin 0]

If takagi is behaving suspiciously he may be rum in disguise.

[Serinox 127]

According to one of the veteran translators on DCTP, the Japanese police are required to take handwriting samples from everyone at the crime scene in some circumstances, because otherwise the case would get smashed down in court by lawyers, so I wouldn't read too much into it. Probably also just a plot device to make Bourbon see Okiya write with his left hand.

[Guest]

By the way, how come 957 is listed as the final file, in the thread title? Is it just assumed that the next file will be the last one of this case? It's a reasonable assumption, I'd say.

 

At the spoiler box it was pointed out that the phrase used at the end of 956 was different than the usual phrase used for the file before last for cases, however after they looked back further it was said that the phrase had used before for the same thing, so effectively it says that this is the file before the last one, and that 957 would be the conclusion. 

 

This is from Secret Talk : Oshima: On Sunday Morning, the Issue 20 of Sunday's manuscript (On sale April the 13th) got uploaded! Thank you for your hard work, sensei! Well. If you read the new series that begins in Issue 18 which will be on sale tomorrow and read until Issue 20 to then go see the movie that'll be released on theathers on April the 16...!? And, after that, if you read Issue 21 of the Sunday...!?

 

Oshima: Today at 10AM Issue 21 of Sunday's name has been uploaded! We all ate Matsuya - san's "Mini beef bowl" and a salad. However, when I read the name I think that, despite that it was scheduled to be this name, I think once that again that Aoyama - sensei is amazing as he stuffed all this volume of info (in the magazine) and merely said "It's in!".

 

by the way "name" = rough draft, not the actual name of the file

 

There is also this from a recent interview:

Gosho Q：打ち合わせではストーリーよりもトリックに時間を割かれる場合も多いのでは？ そうですよ。ストーリーの方が早いです。トリックはかなり時間かかっています。話を考える時間とトリックを考える時間は2：8くらいなんじゃないでしょうか。なかなか難しいので。それからトリックはできる限り実験もしているんですよ。今週刊少年サンデーに載っている話（FILE954～957）も、実はきちんと試しています（笑）。

 

where 954-957 is written in brackets as if he is referring to those files as a whole case

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

954-957 is written in brackets as if he is referring to those files as a whole case

 

Ah, gotcha.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

One thing that has been bothering me is that this case has shown absolutely no connection to Haneda Kouji. For all we know ASACA stands for the Atlantic Shipping And Climbing Association and the 17 years ago timing is a complete coincidence.

 

And speaking of shipping we have another career group with skill in lifting and rope manipulation. The annoying reporter, assuming he is being truthful about his skills, would be out of the suspect pool if he can't knot.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

here's a quick review of file 956!

page 3:

 

we find out that the handwriting belongs to Hado.

 

page 4:

 

the fact that his face has slightly changed probably hints to the fact he was on drugs (marijuana maybe).

 

page 5 and 6:

 

Enjo confirms that he didn't get a plastic surgery. Hado got married 16 yrs ago. Hado had an argument with Fuse about how he entered the company, and afterwards announced the "Asaca" song 17 yrs ago. Since he was angry about Fuse not telling him about his crush on Enjo, maybe Hado was planning on proposing to Enjo. Hado threatened Fuse that he would quit because he didn't want to ruin their hobby and work relationship if he married her while Fuse still had a crush on her. But since he realized that Fuse really had feelings for Enjo, even if Fuse did deny the joke was true, for the sake of his career, he decided to break it off with Enjo and instead just announce his new song "Asaca", that might be about Enjo. one year later, he marries someone else and makes it clear that he is giving Enjo to Fuse. He then get's depressed of his decision and starts taking drugs. the fact that he used to write lyrics all night long before he debuted, but now writes them right before the concert, indicates that he probably changed his routine because he takes drugs during night time.

 

page 7:

 

Hado's preference of dying in the stage might be a subtle hint to that he might be in death's door because of a sickness that came from his drug abuse. That explains his weird post in this context.

 

page 8:

 

Akai tells Scotch to give up. Scotch was probably attempting to kill himself and Akai tried to stop him and try giving him a different option. Scotch makes his decision and lets Akai take the honor of killing a traitor.

 

page 11:

 

Conan probably notices that the knots is done differently from someone who has experience. Enjo is probably the murderer.

 

page 12:

 

Hado was desperately trying to chase Hirokazu away because he didn't want him near the hall for some reason. Maybe he was already aware that Enjo was gonna kill him, hence writing an "I'm sorry" note to her in advance.

 

page 13 and 14:

 

Hado was probably planning to get more drugs after the concert from that other band member. "half of something was dropped" is probably referring to the trick. Enjo's height is probably half the three meters. Maybe she somehow dropped her own weight + toolbox's weight to hoist Hado up, using the chair and wire in some form. Gloves was used to not leave finger prints and the baseball was used to get through the rope over the lighting bars after you throw and pull the baseball, which is attached to it with a string (hence the small hole on the rope).

 

page 15-16:

 

Okiya and Amuro notices the way the knot was tied by the workers, compared to the excess rope that was tied by the culprit, and the chair has hole in it, hinting it was a part of the hoist trick, since a rope/wire probably went through it.

 

page 17:

 

Ran finally getting the awaited screen-time she deserves! will Ran also remember the picture of her, in jodie's apartment, that also had "angel" inscribed in it? will we get a Ran and Jodie interaction soon? can't wait to see her behavior towards Asuza in the next case, same goes for Bourbon towards Okiya!

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

One thing that has been bothering me is that this case has shown absolutely no connection to Haneda Kouji. For all we know ASACA stands for the Atlantic Shipping And Climbing Association and the 17 years ago timing is a complete coincidence.

Gosho did say there was a red herring in Volume 18... do you think it could be anything else but Koji's name on the APTX list?

 

You mean Hado's song? The title and timing depends on what Gosho will have in store for us with 957. I can see it being just a coincidence, but I can also see there being a plot-related trigger.

 

In any case, how many of you are expecting a continuation of this (effectively) non-stop plot run of cases since 2016 started in 958? I'd be very surprised.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Gosho did say there was a red herring in Volume 18... do you think it could be anything else but Koji's name on the APTX list?

I think Haneda Kouji's death by APTX is the real deal. I have no idea what Gosho is referring to honestly. Silly question, but does Gosho actually even know the meaning of "red herring?" Is the phrase for it in Japanese connote the same as in English?

You mean Hado's song?

Yes.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I think Haneda Kouji's death by APTX is the real deal. I have no idea what Gosho is referring to honestly. Silly question, but does Gosho actually even know the meaning of "red herring?" Is the phrase for it in Japanese connote the same as in English?

Wasn't questioning his death—was questioning what, exactly, it'll lead to. I think it'll play a role (along with the other pieces) in ultimately finding out who Rum is, but the deciding factor (especially on its own)? I don't think so.

 

"Red herring" was a translation of what he said, right? "Fake" was what he actually said, during that Q&A session, correct?

[Guest]

"Red herring" was a translation of what he said, right? "Fake" was what he actually said, during that Q&A session, correct?

 

Yup

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Yup

So what do you think he meant by, "There's a fake in Volume 18?"

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

So what do you think he meant by, "There's a fake in Volume 18?"

I think the fake is being ASACA= RUM, it is a mere assumption made by Shuu and Conan. But there is no evidence to back it up, maybe the next file will reveal that Asaca is not Rum.. only time will tell..

[Hanfois 5]

I think the fake is being ASACA= RUM, it is a mere assumption made by Shuu and Conan. But there is no evidence to back it up, maybe the next file will reveal that Asaca is not Rum.. only time will tell..

I don't think that's completely true,maybe ASACA is not RUM but She is related to RUM ,All these chapters would be a waste of time and We return to Zero point. At the worst case they will reach ASACA and know from her about RUM's identity (i highly suspect Mary to be ASACA in that case)