History of B.O.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

I've done a little math recently, and some facts had made an interesting possible history that makes sense for the B.O. ..

We all know of the claim of Ai's that the BO is older than half a century, possibly 50+ years for the existence of the B.O. . We also know based from the appearance of Gin that he is of 30- early 40's years old, if he is at the maximum age of 45 which is doubtful. There is a gap of a minimum 5 years before he was even born to the existence of the B.O. an assumption based on the fact that Gin does not know of the deaging neither he is the type to disguise himself as younger. Pulling the fact that B.O. existing before Gin, it is most likely contains of more members than we know of. 

We know Rum is 2nd in command, and Vermouth is Anokata's favorite. It is sensible that Anokata have supervising agents under him, who are most likely the founding members. It would make sense if they are 7 original founding members after which the tune for Anokata the Nanatsu no kou is made, however the 7 original members is a weak theory. But to attach it to another theory of mine, it would make things more possible and sensible. The other theory I'm talking about is one of the purposes of the B.O. is to control lots of money through mafia like techniques, for example the B.O. specifically Anokata as to empower himself has had groomed potential people under him so they can be the leaders of their subjects, for instance Vermouth a leading actress, Gin a leading mercenary.

However it is safe to assume that Anokata in appearance is an old Japanese man with a wealthy company as a front, due to the fact that if he was deaged or stayed young in any way he wuld be aware of the deaging effects and would have no reason not to tell Gin his loyal agent to look for a child Sherry. Anokata is careful to the extreme, but he trusts Gin more than the others and would have told him to look for young Sherry without the knowledge of others. 

Speaking of loyalty, another issue is the basis on which Anokata assigns his agents. Other than skills and exceptional physiques, it is quite obvious that Anokata regards loyalty more than anything behind only the secrecy, as seen when he orders the murder of Pisco an old member of the B.O. . For Rum to be 2nd in command it would mean he is more loyal than Gin and probably more skillful. 

Regarding Pisco, he did say to Gin that if Gin kills him who is an old member would jeopardize Gin's own status in the B.O. . Hence Pisco is more likely an older member than Gin, thus that would draw the question whether there are more members who are more loyal and older than Gin and perhaps more important. If we assume the original 7 members is a correct theory, one of which is Rum, the 2nd is Vermouth being Anokata's favorite out of the 7. There are still 5 members that we know nothing about, However, if we think about the reason why Anokata wanted to assassinate that politician for he was a possible future prime minister and was hard on crime, and on the words of Ai regarding the arrest of the B.O.'s members that 'unbelievable characters would be caught' it is safe to assume that there is someone in the politics who is an associate of Anokata. However, I don't think that bribery would be the connection but rather a matter of loyalty, hence one of the original 7 is most likely a politician, perhaps the current prime minister whom Anokata is trying to keep in that position.

Rum, Vermouth and Politician Agent (PA), there are still 4 members. We know for a fact that Anokata is readily accepting and wants the death of Sherry who was trained and groomed to be a leading scientist inside the B.O., assuming Anokata is not a scientist himself but a corporate leader, it means someone is supervising the science/programming wing of the B.O. under the boss directly. As Anokata who is ready to kill Sherry, probably have people who can replace her. Someone who knows what happens in the science department and is a scientist who tells Anokata of everything happening and therefore Anokata knows who is doing what, and also the supervisor makes sure everyone is doing their job. It could be though, that this supervisor is Daikouko/Rentarou who went with Sherry to the Mermaid Island to see if there is any scientific component that could help on the progress of the drug.

 

3 members are left, following this theory. The 5th member, is most likely someone who provides money for Anokata's researches. As no matter how rich Anokata is, he alone with several companies under him would be insufficient to provide for research and international relations and deals alone. Someone who did help Anokata before Anokata could become so rich, someone with a mansion of Gold. Which kind of puts Karasuma Renya in the right place (lol), if we presume it is so for a second, then rather than a leader he was one of the original members under Anokata, and his death triggered the visit of the two men (who are probably B.O.) to visit his place and reclaim his money to continue their research. He was rich enough to provide for the B.O. and his age puts him at a perfect age for a starting experienced member, his name though is either  a pun or an alias.

the last two members, could be both dead or one is alive or the both are still alive. If they are not dead, then one of them could be Anokata himself as the 7th member. if not then the two are different members, one of which would have to had international influence for the B.O. to expand so fast and so wide. Maybe an american, who acts as a supervising leader in the U.S. He/she is probably a business  person with many contacts. 

The last member, if not Anokata, would be the eyes for Anokata. Someone who can tell Anokata of everything that is happening inside the B.O., he tells him of Gin's loyalty/ Vermouth's wild actions/ frictions between the members, which would explain how Anokata is keeping everyone so loyal. He could be though the person who sat next to Akai in the to be meeting with Gin, but could be a different person. 

Rum, who made a mistake 17 years ago. Could be a 2nd Rum after the death of the 1st, could be the same person but who's unquestionable loyalty made Anokata overlook the mistake and keep him alive. All we know, for Rum to investigate the B.O. for spies and for making a mistake 17 years ago would make him an old person as one of his descriptions is. And is like mentioned have unquestionable loyalty, and for such a person to exist he must know Anokata personally and might have been with Anokata ever since the creation of BO making him very old. 

Though unlikely, but Kuruda could be one of those original members rather than being Rum. Or a turned member, who was originally a B.O. but after a mistake was to be eliminated, but survived and now seeks revenge. He is still too mysterious, but he is no supporter of B.O, as he would have known and reported Sherry like Pisco had almost done.

Gosho-sama's 2016 interview made a very vague answer about mixed ethnicity, but Gin and Vermouth's appearance are not entirely Japanese. Vermouth for all we know is American, Gin might be of mixed Japanese with possibly German blood, due to his blonde appearance and his favorite Porsche is a reminiscent of Germany.

I doubt Pisco was as skilled as Chianto and Korn, but nevertheless was more high ranking due to his loyalty and more time spent in the B.O than them. Kir's assumed loyalty made her instantly earn her code name. 

Gin told Pisco that he was famous and powerful thanks to the B.O. which supports the claim that the B.O. grooms future leaders.

Vodka could be an original member who is the 'eyes of Anokata' who reports everything to him, lol which would explain why Gin wanted to shoot him as he was probably annoying as to report every little detail but was dim witted sometimes. Also explains why he always wears black sunglasses, the hidden eyes of Anokata lol, but I guess it was a mere clothing appearance Gosho-sama thought was cool. 

Anokata, is probably like mentioned, an old Japanese company owner, with a corporate that acts as a front for his other life as a leader of a powerful organization. Therefore he is an old Japanese person who wears a business suit, cautious to the extreme, have a love for the detective fiction, and is ruthless as he orders the death of any agent who jeopardize his secret operations no matter who is the agent. Being such ruthless would indicate that Anokata himself had to have at least once committed a crime by his own hands probably a murder to become this ruthless and to lead a secret life to hide an old murder??!! . A running theory is that Vermouth is Anokata's daughter being the romantic person near Gin would jeopardize her relationship with Anokata had she's been a wife or a lover to him. To allow intimate relations between his agents; Vermouth/Gin/Sherry/Akemi/Rye etc. rather than formal relationship, might indicate Anokata's desire for inbreeding between his agents to result in the agents of the future, that is if he does even know about the relationships between his agents.

And Anokata's name is probably famous as we know him, Haibara would be shocked to know it is him, meaning she knows his real name, as per a previous interview made with Gosho-sama who said that if you know the B.O.'s real name you will know Anokata, and is someone whom we would remember instantly. His wealth also makes him famous among his peers in his alter ego.

Hope it makes sense XD ..  

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I wish we had html view once again so I could quote by pieces.

>However it is safe to assume that Anokata in appearance is an old Japanese man with a wealthy company as a front, due to the fact that if he was deaged or stayed young in any way he wuld be aware of the deaging effects and would have no reason not to tell Gin his loyal agent to look for a child Sherry.

I don't think this is a safe assumption in the slightest because it assumes that A) The boss is a communicative person willing to reveal himself to Gin if he had such aging problems. B] Gin has even met the boss in person C) Gin knows this is the same boss as always despite your assumption that Gin only joined halfway through the Organization's existance.

Gin saw Vermouth's true face in the Halloween case and yet has not drawn any conclusions about de-aging. That strongly suggests he isn't playing with the full deck of information about the Organization and its history.

Your assumption that that the boss is some business leader instead of a math professor, or a law enforcement agent, or a scientist, or a retiree, or a corner grocer is based more on character stereotypes than information.

>it is quite obvious that Anokata regards loyalty more than anything behind only the secrecy, as seen when he orders the murder of Pisco an old member of the B.O. .

But what about Vermouth? She is pretty obviously keeping secrets. If Gin can tell, surely the boss can.

The only trait we know for sure the boss considers a plus for agents is sheer savagery. Kir so far is the only person we know why was codenamed: for staying silent as her body was destroyed, biting a man's wrist to the bone, and then blowing his head off like an animal. Chianti (or Korn, I forget) said it was the ferocity of her actions showing that she was a person capable of snapping that convinced the boss, rather than loyalty alone.

The idea that there are 7 starter agents and your guesses on their identities are asserted without evidence, so I don't really have anything to say about that.
 

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

3 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

I wish we had html view once again so I could quote by pieces.

>However it is safe to assume that Anokata in appearance is an old Japanese man with a wealthy company as a front, due to the fact that if he was deaged or stayed young in any way he wuld be aware of the deaging effects and would have no reason not to tell Gin his loyal agent to look for a child Sherry.

I don't think this is a safe assumption in the slightest because it assumes that A) The boss is a communicative person willing to reveal himself to Gin if he had such aging problems. B] Gin has even met the boss in person C) Gin knows this is the same boss as always despite your assumption that Gin only joined halfway through the Organization's existance.

Gin saw Vermouth's true face in the Halloween case and yet has not drawn any conclusions about de-aging. That strongly suggests he isn't playing with the full deck of information about the Organization and its history.

Your assumption that that the boss is some business leader instead of a math professor, or a law enforcement agent, or a scientist, or a retiree, or a corner grocer is based more on character stereotypes than information.

>it is quite obvious that Anokata regards loyalty more than anything behind only the secrecy, as seen when he orders the murder of Pisco an old member of the B.O. .

But what about Vermouth? She is pretty obviously keeping secrets. If Gin can tell, surely the boss can.

The only trait we know for sure the boss considers a plus for agents is sheer savagery. Kir so far is the only person we know why was codenamed: for staying silent as her body was destroyed, biting a man's wrist to the bone, and then blowing his head off like an animal. Chianti (or Korn, I forget) said it was the ferocity of her actions showing that she was a person capable of snapping that convinced the boss, rather than loyalty alone.

The idea that there are 7 starter agents and your guesses on their identities are asserted without evidence, so I don't really have anything to say about that.
 

Regarding Gin and Anokata, I believe Anokata would tell Gin to consider deaging. Without revealing his own appearance to Gin, therefore through communication alone Anokata does not have to reveal himself to Gin. 

Gin also said at the beginning of the manga that the purpose of the drug is to kill without evidence, therefore it is assumed that he does not know about the real purpose of the drug.

Regarding Vermouth, I believe Anokata have some suspicions, but nonetheless for some reason he does not act at the moment.

Savagery is a trait that Anokata considers highly, but it is savagery based on loyalty, as if savagery is a trait followed by loyalty that helped promoting Kir.

Fair enough, but I'm just drawing some theories regarding the number 7. There is no evidence, but it is logical. Yet again it is a theory among many, I'm sure half of it if not all is wrong. But only time will tell..

[detConShin 0]

14 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

I wish we had html view once again so I could quote by pieces.

>However it is safe to assume that Anokata in appearance is an old Japanese man with a wealthy company as a front, due to the fact that if he was deaged or stayed young in any way he wuld be aware of the deaging effects and would have no reason not to tell Gin his loyal agent to look for a child Sherry.

I don't think this is a safe assumption in the slightest because it assumes that A) The boss is a communicative person willing to reveal himself to Gin if he had such aging problems. B] Gin has even met the boss in person C) Gin knows this is the same boss as always despite your assumption that Gin only joined halfway through the Organization's existance.

Gin saw Vermouth's true face in the Halloween case and yet has not drawn any conclusions about de-aging. That strongly suggests he isn't playing with the full deck of information about the Organization and its history.

Your assumption that that the boss is some business leader instead of a math professor, or a law enforcement agent, or a scientist, or a retiree, or a corner grocer is based more on character stereotypes than information.

 

1)I think you are contradicting yourself. If deaging did occur then most jobs would be very difficult to manage.Sharon Vineyard was able to get away with it because of very clever use of disguises. So either he is somebody with a lot  money and somebody is acting as a front for him or no deaging has occurred at all. I don't think you deal with math teachers who has taught two generations of students without ageing. tThe lsame logic can be generalised for most professions. Therefore being a chronologically old man with a lot of money is the only possibility(I am assuming Gosho would not throw in something like a board directing the organisation and anokata only represents the boards' will in which case there is almost nothing to go on) if we were to assume he is a deaged person. If not then also the most probable profession of the boss would be that of an old businessman because of the reasons mentioned by the creator of the thread. Of course if we were to believe that there have been more than bosses then the board theory would gain support because there has to be some appointing body.

 

2)at the end of the off season valentines party case vermouth got a mail from the boss calling her back to his  side. From this i think it is safe to assume that vermouth has met the boss. Assuming that vermouth and gin are equally ranked it is quite possible gin has met the boss.

 

3) I had a question. I am fairly new to DC which perhaps would be evident from what I have wriiten above. Why do you people always assume that vermouth has hidden the identity of Conan Edogawa. He is a child in his current form, has almost no leads to go on and perhaps because of his association with kogorou mouri and so many police officers eliminating him and perhaps even mouri would not be very safe because if it is a detective they are dealing with he perhaps would have already designed someway to transmit his investigation to his trusted people(in this case they are dangerous because the list includes heiji hattori who's father is a police chief and a person who is the mycroft equivalent to shinichi yusaku kudo) in which case killing a silver bullet may lead to the production of three more silver bullets. This theory also holds ground because yusaku does not frequent Japan that often even after the shrinking of his son and you don't want to eliminate a great detective to get the best against you right? Further the reason why the boss hasn't asked vermouth to reveal this to the organisation is because he knows gin well. We saw in that Valentine's Day case that gin ordered vodka to not hold back even against vermouth which mean he takes charge in a lot of situations. Thus in accordance with the cautious behaviour of the boss it is his best alternative to keep shinichi alive in my opinion.

 

PS: I apologise in advance for any grammatical or plot related error I made in the above banter.

 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

1 hour ago, detConShin said:

1)I think you are contradicting yourself. If deaging did occur then most jobs would be very difficult to manage.

Nope, I am not contradicting myself. Shinan-Kudogawa claimed the boss was going to be a business leader effectively because that's what stereotypical evil organization leaders do and the boss needs the cash. I was casting doubt on the validity of that pidgeonholing entirely independently of claiming the boss was de-aged.

1 hour ago, detConShin said:

2)at the end of the off season valentines party case vermouth got a mail from the boss calling her back to his  side. From this i think it is safe to assume that vermouth has met the boss. Assuming that vermouth and gin are equally ranked it is quite possible gin has met the boss.

That's a guess, and there is still no evidence. I agree the boss and Vermouth are probably meeting, but Vermouth might only get to see the boss because she is the boss's favorite, and maybe everyone else like Gin deals with Rum.

1 hour ago, detConShin said:

3) I had a question. I am fairly new to DC which perhaps would be evident from what I have wriiten above. Why do you people always assume that vermouth has hidden the identity of Conan Edogawa.

Because it is a general premise of the manga: Agasa said it at first, and then Haibara who had some actual authority came along and confirmed it: the organization values secrecy over research. "If I reported your condition to the organization, it's very likely you would have been terminated before I could do something useful." Haibara explains that Kudo would have been killed by the Black Organization anyway even though he was an "interesting specimen." She then reiterated that recently by saying Kuroda would have certainly attacked after seeing her face if he was Rum.

Making a bloody splash among detectives and police wouldn't stop them either. In Kir's intro, Gin, with the boss's approval, was 100% willing to put Mouri down in his office on a moment's notice and then go through everyone around him until they dug out everyone who might know about the Org or where Sherry is. It was only the intervention of Akai Shuuichi AND Vermouth pleading that she needed Kogoro for reasons she doesn't want to go into that got Gin to back down... yet even now he still holds a grudge against Kogoro and wants him gone. Conan thought of handing over the Nanatsu no Ko phone number to Takagi for tracing, but Ai axed that idea saying the BO would find out,Takagi would be murdered, and then it would get ugly as the BO tried to find out where the number leaked from.

Basically, as Vermouth put it, the only way to keep her angels safe is to keep them out of the world of the Black Organization, which means not telling anybody. Conan is pretty desperate to involve himself, and Vermouth couldn't stop Conan when she enacted an elaborate plan to separate Ai from him, so she has given up there. Vermouth got Bourbon to agree to not harming them, and maybe not so coincidentally, she picked Amuro probably because she somehow knew he would abide by that promise being the kind of person he is...

Welcome to DC!The reason I knew you were new btw had nothing to do with questioning this, but because your theories suggest you haven't yet been burned by the no-one-communicates-with-each-another principle before: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User:Chekhov_MacGuffin/Recurring_Tropes#Lack_of_information_sharing

[detConShin 0]

1 hour ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

Nope, I am not contradicting myself. Shinan-Kudogawa claimed the boss was going to be a business leader effectively because that's what stereotypical evil organization leaders do and the boss needs the cash. I was casting doubt on the validity of that pidgeonholing entirely independently of claiming the boss was de-aged.

That's a guess, and there is still no evidence. I agree the boss and Vermouth are probably meeting, but Vermouth might only get to see the boss because she is the boss's favorite, and maybe everyone else like Gin deals with Rum.

Because it is a general premise of the manga: Agasa said it at first, and then Haibara who had some actual authority came along and confirmed it: the organization values secrecy over research. "If I reported your condition to the organization, it's very likely you would have been terminated before I could do something useful." Haibara explains that Kudo would have been killed by the Black Organization anyway even though he was an "interesting specimen." She then reiterated that recently by saying Kuroda would have certainly attacked after seeing her face if he was Rum.

Making a bloody splash among detectives and police wouldn't stop them either. In Kir's intro, Gin, with the boss's approval, was 100% willing to put Mouri down in his office on a moment's notice and then go through everyone around him until they dug out everyone who might know about the Org or where Sherry is. It was only the intervention of Akai Shuuichi AND Vermouth pleading that she needed Kogoro for reasons she doesn't want to go into that got Gin to back down... yet even now he still holds a grudge against Kogoro and wants him gone. Conan thought of handing over the Nanatsu no Ko phone number to Takagi for tracing, but Ai axed that idea saying the BO would find out,Takagi would be murdered, and then it would get ugly as the BO tried to find out where the number leaked from.

Basically, as Vermouth put it, the only way to keep her angels safe is to keep them out of the world of the Black Organization, which means not telling anybody. Conan is pretty desperate to involve himself, and Vermouth couldn't stop Conan when she enacted an elaborate plan to separate Ai from him, so she has given up there. Vermouth got Bourbon to agree to not harming them, and maybe not so coincidentally, she picked Amuro probably because she somehow knew he would abide by that promise being the kind of person he is...

Welcome to DC!The reason I knew you were new btw had nothing to do with questioning this, but because your theories suggest you haven't yet been burned by the no-one-communicates-with-each-another principle before: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User:Chekhov_MacGuffin/Recurring_Tropes#Lack_of_information_sharing

Thanks for the explanation.  That article was really helpful.