Suspicious characters! Discussion about Hyoue Kuroda, Wakasa Rumi, and others.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

2 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

Not sure if BO smell or just reacting to mal-intent. Haibara has reacted to general mal-intent in a few previous cases, but has never claimed it was the BO smell and been incorrect about it. My point of reference is that her reaction was muted in this latest case when Rumi did the "LetS StAb aYumI toGetheR, HeehEEHee" culprit distraction gambit. The scenario was pretty much 1 to 1 with Okiya on Ikkaku rock, yet Ai didn't have nearly the same degree of feeling.

Her focus and suspicion of Rumi(that lasted up to the end of file 989) kickstarted due to that initial reaction. And since the SFX is the exact same as when she reacted to BO in the past, it is that very same reaction. Are we discussing whether the BO sense she has had so far was mal intent all along, or if what she reacted to was different from the usual BO sense?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

3 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

And since the SFX is the exact same as when she reacted to BO in the past, it is that very same reaction.

I'm not convinced by this "dokkun" SFX means BO theory. I did some admittedly quick flipping, and saw that same sound effect being used for several heavy heartbeat moments; such as the APTX revert feeling. My current take is that it is Gosho's sound effect of choice for heavy heartbeats, and "dokkun" gets used for a variety of heavy heartbeat scenarios including BO scares. Thus, I have zero reason right now to believe it means just BO sense and not "heartpounding moment" in general.

 

3 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

Are we discussing whether the BO sense she has had so far was mal intent all along, or if what she reacted to was different from the usual BO sense?

I am not convinced her reaction to Rumi was a BO scare versus a regular one. When Haibara has the BO feeling, she usually mentions it. She hasn't. I think it's fair to wait and see if she mentions it again because Haibara has delayed talking about the feelings before. That said, I don't think Ai's character growth re. overcoming fear of the Org is such that she would be inclined to side with Rumi right away if her BO-dar went off.

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

I wonder if its possible that in the same way that Ran reminds Shiho of Akemi, that Rumi could remind Shiho of Elena, which would result in her taking Rumi's side so quickly. 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

6 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

I am not convinced her reaction to Rumi was a BO scare versus a regular one. When Haibara has the BO feeling, she usually mentions it. She hasn't. I think it's fair to wait and see if she mentions it again because Haibara has delayed talking about the feelings before. That said, I don't think Ai's character growth re. overcoming fear of the Org is such that she would be inclined to side with Rumi right away if her BO-dar went off.

I see. I understand your standpoint on this. Looks like we have completely different views on Haibara's behavior in File 987-989.

(Btw, if her reaction to Kuroda is one of your references to when she reacts to mal-intent only, then it's not a valid reference, since there was no "dokkun" sfx to begin with).

4 hours ago, Jimmy-kud0-tv2 said:

I wonder if its possible that in the same way that Ran reminds Shiho of Akemi, that Rumi could remind Shiho of Elena, which would result in her taking Rumi's side so quickly. 

This doesn't make sense to me, since her mother figure has always been Akemi. Elena was never around, so I doubt she can be reminded of someone that she doesn't remember to begin with.

[gg1998 3]

The thing which Haibara felt during Rumi's glare was an intense pressure despite that she wasn't the object of that pressure, comparable to the Ikkau Rocks' disappearing fish case, when Subaru was confronting the the criminal Subaru's glare invoked exactly same feeling for Haibara. But when Subaru was appeared in the first chapter Haibara felt the BO pressure, that BO pressure was devoid of Dokkun, but the glare was there with Dokkun.

So Rumi's glare invoking "Dokkun" in Haibara is proof of Rumi's deathly/mal-intent doesn't mean she's a member of BO. If that was the case haibara would have felt the BO pressure.

Dokkun=Mal-intent(Irrespective of BO affiliation)

BO Pressure= BO confirmed.

 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

2 hours ago, gg1998 said:

The thing which Haibara felt during Rumi's glare was an intense pressure despite that she wasn't the object of that pressure, comparable to the Ikkau Rocks' disappearing fish case, when Subaru was confronting the the criminal Subaru's glare invoked exactly same feeling for Haibara. But when Subaru was appeared in the first chapter Haibara felt the BO pressure, that BO pressure was devoid of Dokkun, but the glare was there with Dokkun.

So Rumi's glare invoking "Dokkun" in Haibara is proof of Rumi's deathly/mal-intent doesn't mean she's a member of BO. If that was the case haibara would have felt the BO pressure.

 

The "dokkun" SFX is here as well during Subaru's intro, so your reasoning doesn't make sense. Other than this, how do you explain all the other times when she felt BO scent and there were heartbeats sfx?

The "mal-intent" that she senses from BO people is the same as the BO scent(another layer of its functionality), and it's an 100% established pattern that every person that BO triggered her are BO affiliated. In Subaru's case, the only confirmed living male that has triggered her in the past(prior to Subaru) is Rye, and in Rumi's case, the only confirmed living female that has triggered her in the past(prior to Rumi) is Vermouth.

[gg1998 3]

4 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

The "dokkun" SFX is here as well during Subaru's intro, so your reasoning doesn't make sense. Other than this, how do you explain all the other times when she felt BO scent and there were heartbeats sfx?

The "mal-intent" that she senses from BO people is the same as the BO scent(another layer of its functionality), and it's an 100% established pattern that every person that BO triggered her are BO affiliated. In Subaru's case, the only confirmed living male that has triggered her in the past(prior to Subaru) is Rye, and in Rumi's case, the only confirmed living female that has triggered her in the past(prior to Rumi) is Vermouth.

I was referring to Subaru's presence in the first chapter of the Ikkaku rock case.There if you look closely then you won't find any Dokkun, only BO pressure, but here there's a would-be murderer among the mix. So how can you be so sure that the Dokkun was due to Subaru but not due to the murderer, even it can be a combined effect of Subaru and the murderer? I think a better description would be when Subaru and Haibara were in a direct one to one scenario and Dokun occurred.

Rumi didn't BO trigger her, Rumi's glare triggered pressure, that's not equal to BO pressure on Haibara. It's just an intense pressure.

• Subaru is a well wisher of Haibara.
• Subaru is Akai in disguise.
• Let's make a claim that Subaru invoked Dokkun when Haibara saw him.
• Now despite good intentions Haibara's BO sense buzzes off, if anyone(even ex) BO members are around her, that's the conclusion we can draw.
• Rumi during her introduction or her later interactions with Haibara, didn't invoke Dokkun.
• Rumi's anger towards a third party invoked Dokkun in Haibara.
• So there's only a single conclusion that can be drawn on Rumi.
• When she thinks about the said third-party Haibara's BO sense perks up, otherwise she isn't much of a BO member.
• SO Rumi as a person is so close to Haibara that even Haibara's BO sense can't pick her scent when Rumi is under normal conditions.
• But Haibara's parents are supposedly dead and her sister is surely dead. Then how is this possible?
• This means only one conclusion Rumi's intent was so malicious during the incident that it could have been only paralleled by a BO member.
• Nothing else you can draw from this, everything else is just mere wishful speculations.

[gg1998 3]

Regarding to the thing in Rumi's pocket I've got an approximate size description of the thing.

• From Manga file 989, we can deduce that Rumi's pocket was of  3.5'' deep. The thing which was there in it looked to have length around 28% of the pocket's depth and it's length and breadth ratio was 2:1 roughly.
• So if we do the math we will get that the thing in Rumi's pocket is pointed pentagon, with bigger base around 1" and the breadth of the bigger side is around .5".

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

more defined hair line

also I know the pictures aren't the same height, but with his hair going off the top of the image in the anime one, he looks a bit taller.... or a bit stretched out

Also, while you can't see it in this image, the Anime staff romanized the name as Kouji..... the difference spotting begins. 

 

 

 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

2 hours ago, Jimmy-kud0-tv2 said:

more defined hair line

also I know the pictures aren't the same height, but with his hair going off the top of the image in the anime one, he looks a bit taller.... or a bit stretched out

Also, while you can't see it in this image, the Anime staff romanized the name as Kouji..... the difference spotting begins. 

 

 

 

Can't wait for more

(still gonna write it as "Kohji")

[Wakarimashita 137]

To be consistent with current Wiki standards, it should be written as "Koji Haneda", so basically not the manga version nor the anime version. Still don't understand why it's left as "Kohji" on his character page when the double vowels in romaji spelling weren't kept for Shinichi or Yusaku Kudo, and many other characters, never mind adding an h. Only exception being the Mouris I believe.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

6 hours ago, Wakarimashita said:

To be consistent with current Wiki standards, it should be written as "Koji Haneda", so basically not the manga version nor the anime version. Still don't understand why it's left as "Kohji" on his character page when the double vowels in romaji spelling weren't kept for Shinichi or Yusaku Kudo, and many other characters, never mind adding an h. Only exception being the Mouris I believe.

Because it was written in the manga as "Kohji."

Being consistent is nice, but there are enough ingrained instances where the wiki deviates from the typical "chop the vowel" that there is little point in trying to claim some standard beyond "we generally do it." Tooru, Hondou, Hyoue - it's common for plot characters.

New editors typically spell names the way they are used to seeing them. Usually that's how they are written in manga or the fan translation version (initial trendsetting). For instance, Shuuichi with two 'u's was a consistent problem back in the Bourbon arc. In the interest of minimizing work, it's better to go with the flow. For contentious cases, we typically take a poll.

 

The real problem children are the "Helena" people. エレーナ (ere-na) has no starting H -- that would be ヘレーナ.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Apologies for the double post, but I just remembered there is a disorder which can cause temporary blindness is one eye: Retinal migraine. It seemed weird to me how Rumi was very obvious in how she was searching around right after she recovered from her heavy thoughts in 988. If she is blind in one eye, it's like she isn't used to it. She also didn't appear to have vision problems or overturn in normal circumstances in her earlier chapters. I remember that stress can trigger it, among many other factors. It's a long shot, but maybe worth thinking about?

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

8 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

Apologies for the double post, but I just remembered there is a disorder which can cause temporary blindness is one eye: Retinal migraine. It seemed weird to me how Rumi was very obvious in how she was searching around right after she recovered from her heavy thoughts in 988. If she is blind in one eye, it's like she isn't used to it. She also didn't appear to have vision problems or overturn in normal circumstances in her earlier chapters. I remember that stress can trigger it, among many other factors. It's a long shot, but maybe worth thinking about?

 

It's more likely than her being Rum, to be sure.

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

Anime Asaka is even more blury and unusable

I pray that it doesn't get uploaded in place of the much nicer manga volume version one, but I know that it will happen...

 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

@Jimmy-kud0-tv2 I'd just put the two versions side by side where it matters most.

[Kitahata 1]

Hey, this may be out of the blue. But about names...

 

Superintendent Kuroda's name is literally "Kuroda Kanbei", just with the "Kan" kanji removed. I was thinking that it's pretty rare for samurai references in the name to be blatant as heck unless it's relevant to something. Samurai-themed cases are usually one-off things, like that first time Kansuke was introduced. Or the time when Yumi was kidnapped and the case heavily referenced Hideyoshi's retainers because the case stars Shuukichi. But at the time Kansuke's name was actually relevant to the Takeda Shingen-themed case. Kuroda was introduced in the "woodpecker" case, but his name has nothing to do with the Takeda clan.

 

The only other person with this kind of blatant samurai name is Okita, but he was "imported" into Conan from Yaiba, so I'm not sure if that really counts. I mean, it could be nothing other than Gosho just wanting a bunch of ancient strategist names in the police... but I still thought it was interesting because Shuukichi's name is kinda a reference to Hideyoshi and Kuroda Kanbei was Hideyoshi's strategist. 

 

Could be a red herring, could be absolutely nothing at all. Sometimes the samurai thing is inserted strangely into the case anyway. Like that one case with Yumi and the marriage registration. I'm not sure if people would have understood what that was all about if they weren't samurai afficionados.

[Otaku3670 3]

The DC wiki shows that Kuroda's name is inflenced by a General Kuroda Kanbei who spearheaded campaigns again the Mori dynasty.

[Otaku3670 3]

After going through Check's new findings about the dying message and the scissors positioning in the current arc, I'm tempted to jot down my speculations.

BO ordered an investigation about the singer who used ASACA as the name of his song, but BO is very reluctant in investigating Hotta Gaito who claimed to have info about Haneda Kojhi's murder. Hotta had two pieces of information, Asaka was seen with a mirror and Asaka was a woman. If BO were really after this illusive body guard who vanished in the thin air, then they would have really tightened the noose around Hotta, but they weren't even present there, despite Mary's prediction. So BO is worried about the dying message but gives two hoots about Asaka.

 

So this prompts me to think that Asaka's whereabouts are already known to BO and the way Amanda was killed forces me to think that Asaka was one of Rum's lackey.

The person who had the shogi piece taken from Haneda's hand was probably Rumi,(she also shows emotional attachment to it.)

There is a possibility that when Rum was killing Kohji somebody intervened and forced Rum to retreat. Rumi also got triggered when the word prosthetic was heard. The full phrase included "The injury was so severe that I almost had to get a Prosthetic." So it can also mean that this sentence flashed a memory in Rumi's mind about a scuffle whose end result was someone getting a prosthetic.

 

The way Rumi shot a glare to Kuroda even before he opened his mouth forces me to think that Kuroda's very presence is detested by Rumi and she doesn't hide it. So what was so unnerving about Kuroda? It was evident that they didn't know each-other, so why was such an air of animosity between them? The only answer is that Rumi considers Kuroda the same someone who had to get a prosthetic due to the scuffle.

Kuroda seems to be comparing Rumi with someone, whose habits he knew on a personal level.(That person wasn't like this.) Kuroda seems to interpret the dying message as Wakasa Rumi, but why would he do that? There are tonnes of people whose names can be formed by those characters, then why singling out Wakasa Rumi? Probably the person named as Wakasa Rumi was seen near the crime scene and Kuroda has this information, but for the other stuff he needs the website.

 

Lastly on the dying message I'm pretty sure that BO interprets it as an indicator revealing Rum's social name, that's why they are so edgy about it.

So kuroda is probably an enemy of Rum trying to get his hands on Rum.

Rumi is also an enemy of Rum, out there for his head and probably is the reason behind his blind eye.

 

 

 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

Rum Arc Discussion Series: Update #1

 

This is my first update on my thoughts regarding the previously discussed characters and plot. I'll be going in order of the discussion series.

 

Wakita Kanenori

 

There's something that I have noticed about the setup and order of the cases that leads up to the characters' introduction. What I initially realized was that the "Soul Detective" case(File 951-953) is seemingly setting up Wakita's introduction(File 975-977) and his purpose in the story(File 977+). Indications of that was first of all the cliffhanger with Gin, where his suspicion towards Kogoro grew strong enough for him to wanna take action(File 953), which fits with the development where Wakita becomes Kogoro's apprentice(most likely with the intention to verify Gin's suspicion)(File 977).

Another one is the "Kid Killer News" reference and the reminder that they can be read in the papers(File 951), which fits with the moment where Wakita is reading the papers about someone he refers to as "quick-witted"(most likely referring to Conan)(File 980).



This idea was further supported after realizing the potential link between Wakita and Mary. This link is found through the clues in the "Ripples" series(File 972-974). In that flashback series, we get to see the aftermath of Mary using her knife-hand strike on Akai(File 972). Mary left a mark on Akai's left eye as a result of that strike, which fits directly with Wakita's damaged left eye(most likely as a result of her defending herself from him)(File 975).



Taking my previous speculations about Wakita into consideration, this is heavily implying that before he set his eyes on Kogoro, he had a confrontation with Mary at some point, that lead into a fight. Another setup towards Wakita's introduction, during the Ripple series(File 972-974), even indicates that Wakita is the one responsible for Mary's shrinking. This happens at the end(File 974), where Conan is asking himself about Mary's circumstance and who caused it, which is right before the introduction of Wakita in the following chapter(File 975).



This is also probably another one of Gosho's introduction foreshadowings, that indicates that Wakita drugged Mary, and considering that the Soul detective case(that sets up Wakita) heavily focused on Mary, and how she could have been drugged, it further supports this interpretation.

In other words, Wakita, who's the "closest subordinate" of the boss, attacked Mary and fed her Sherry's prototype drug. Only high-ranked/code-named BO members have so far been confirmed to have access to the "incomplete detective"(prototype), so it makes sense for Wakita to have access to it if he's the closest subordinate to the boss. If this is the case, then it's highly likely that the reason why Gin and Mary used the same quote("It's like encountering a demon in the darkness") is related to Wakita as well. Since Wakita is the only potential tie between Mary and Gin, this quote could be something that Wakita frequently uses.



This would mean that Wakita said that quote to Mary(who is most likely a former MI6 agent in hiding, as mentioned in the Wakita discussion), probably as a way of acknowledging her as a threat to the BO. Since Wakita could be a BO member, it would be natural for Gin to hear that sentence at least once. However, considering that we have seen an example to the kind of relationship that someone has with someone that they borrow a quote from in Rum arc, through Shuukichi(File 947), there's a possibility that Gin looks up to Wakita in a similar way. Wakita could be a mentor figure to Gin, which would fall well in line with the fact that Wakita's character design is based on a coach character from the "Ashita no joe" anime.

 

Wakasa Rumi

 

Previously, my speculations regarding Rumi wasn't set on one direction, since her whole deal was quite ambiguous. At the moment however, recent developments had clues that pointed more towards one direction. Rumi was at first suspected to be Asaka or Vermouth, but after picking up more clues, it's looking like Rumi is more likely to be Vermouth.

Similarly to Wakita's introduction, Rumi's introduction also seemingly has a lot of setup towards it. Just like how there were indications that the Soul Detective case was a setup for Wakita's intro, the "betrayal" series(File 954-957) has also many hints that it was setting up Rumi's intro and that Rumi is Vermouth. One of them is the fact that it was a "whisky trio" case(Rye/Bourbon/Scotch), where Vermouth was interested in Subaru(Rye)(File 954-957), which fits with Rumi's whisky reference and that it's her favorite drink(possibly Gosho's attempt to create a link to that case and to also foreshadow Rumi's person of interest)(File 967).



Another one is the fact that Vermouth found out that professor Agasa is Subaru's neighbor(File 955), which fits with the fact that Rumi showed interest in Agasa(the neighbor of the man Vermouth is suspicious of)(File 966).



There's also something else, that I failed to notice before, that not only strengthens the introduction foreshadowing, that Gosho possibly used during Rumi's intro(as mentioned in my Rumi discussion), but also ties it to the Betrayal series. Gosho established a parallell between Vermouth and Kaito Kid(File 958), and then potentially utilized it panels before Rumi's intro through DB's conversation(hinting that Vermouth's disguise is involved in Rumi's intro)(File 966).



As for the new developments, the strongest indicator that Rumi is Vermouth is the fact that Rumi triggered Haibara's BO sense(File 978). When Subaru triggered Haibara's BO sense, the only living man that was confirmed to have triggered her at that time was Akai. Similarly to this, the only living female character to have done that before Rumi is Vermouth.



Beyond the fact that Subaru and Rumi were setup to be the main suspects of their respective arcs, they are very similar in how Gosho is developing them. For example, both of them were in an Ayumi-hostage-situation where they had to rely on their own experience to create an opening against the culprit. Subaru's being crime-related knowledge(File 666), and Rumi's being murder(Which Vermouth has experience of)(File 989).



Gosho is even repeating the whole deal with how one person is suspecting the red-herring, while the other isn't. In Subaru's case, Haibara had a suspicion, but Conan rejected it(File 624), while in Rumi's case, Conan had a suspicion, but Haibara rejected it(File 989).



All of these parallels between Subaru and Rumi are most likely intentional, since Rumi's story might be leading to a similar development as Subaru's, where she ends up being a character, that we already knew, in disguise.

As I mentioned in my Rumi discussion, when she invited DB to her house(File 978), her goal was probably to get more information on Subaru. Since she bought cups and plates for a group, we know that she was expecting the DB to tag along with Conan to her house. Since she sensed that a crime was gonna happen, by inviting Conan and DB, it is guaranteed that Conan would go and investigate it(like in Betrayal), which would give Rumi an opening to pry on Subaru through DB. If for some reason the crime didn't happen, then her pre-established plan of dropping them off one by one at their home becomes the opening for her to get information on Subaru(which wouldn't have been possible in the first scenario, since the police would have taken them in for questioning and then dropped them off themselves).

The developments in the latest Rumi case(File 987-989) suggested that Rumi possesses something that is connected to the Kohji case. This seems to imply that she has a personal interest in that 17-year-old case(rather than her just wanting to confirm Conan's Kohji investigation). During the betrayal series(File 954-957) Vermouth's actions suggested that she wanted to get involved in Bourbon's mission in order to investigate Kohji's dying message. The first indication was the fact that she unnecessarily offered her blackmailer to help with a disguise(which naturally includes getting involved in the mission in order to oversee the disguise, like in File 852), when he could just force it from her if he really needed to(File 954).



The second indication is the fact that she still involved herself in Bourbon's mission, with a rushed disguise of Asuza, despite the fact that Bourbon was enough for the job(File 955).



There's therefore a possibility that she involved herself because she was personally interested in the dying message that involves "ASACA", just like Rumi. The object in Rumi's pocket has a shape that looks similar to a Shogi piece at first sight, but after taking a closer look at its edges, the object's shape deviates from a normal shogi piece quite a bit. The object's shape looks more similar to the missing "U" shard's shape(that was hidden by Kohji in order to deliver his dying message).



For Rumi to possess that shard, she had to have been in the US and entered Kohji's room in Juke Hotel(Which Vermouth would have been capable of). Since it's implied that Rumi is trying to portray herself as Asaka to Conan(As mentioned in my Rumi discussion), it's possible that she brought that shard with her in order to convince Conan that she's Asaka if the opportunity arises(since it would at least imply that she was there in the crime scene if she showed it to him).

Why is Vermouth interested in the dying message?
What we know is that the BO at least can interpret "ASACA" from the dying message(since they involved themselves in the Betrayal case because of that word). For that reason, it's possible that the BO are trying to find Asaka(if we assume that she's a woman), who mysteriously disappeared from the Kohji case. Since we know that the prototype drug of Sherry's parents was involved in that case, and since we have a mysterious disappearance of a character that the BO seems to be looking for, there's a high possibility that Asaka was also drugged, when Rum attacked Amanda, and instead of dying, another effect of the Miyano's prototype took place(ultimately leading to her escape).
From a narrative standpoint, it makes sense for Gosho to create a character that was affected by the Miyano's prototype in order to dive into the mystery of the Silver Bullet research(the goal of the drug that Sherry's parents were making), just like how we have characters that were affected by the APTX4869(Sherry's research). Since we recently got more details to the "accident" that killed Sherry's parents, as well as the confirmation that Sherry's(BO's) and the Miyano's research goal were different all along(File 948), it makes sense for it to be relevant in this arc.



If Asaka was drugged, and then survived like Conan and Haibara, because of an effect that doesn't kill(which isn't necessarily shrinking), then it would explain why Vermouth is interested in the dying message. Vermouth would have reasons to suspect that Asaka disappeared because the SB prototype didn't kill her, since she knows that the APTX prototype(that is based on SB research remains) didn't kill Shinichi and Sherry. Since Vermouth wants to hide any indication of progress to the BO research, it makes sense for her to have personal reasons in trying to figure out the dying message, since it might have something to do with Asaka, who she wants to eliminate(before BO finds out about an effect that doesn't kill). This would also explain why she reacted towards "prosthetic" in an angry manner, while gripping an object that is connected to the dying message(File 987). Rum, who has a prosthetic, was the reason for Asaka getting drugged and disappearing, and ultimately creating this mess that she has to cover up.



So, by having Conan think that she's Asaka(a framed witness), she would get the opportunity to use his help to solve the dying message quicker and potentially find the real Asaka.

As for Rumi's suspicious bumping in her introduction(File 966), that Conan suspected was due to her having monocular vision, it is most likely due to her glasses. Adapting to monocular vision roughly takes 1 year(unless the loss was gradual), meaning that symptoms like bumping your head would have been more frequent(If she lost her eye/vision within a year) and not have stopped after her intro case. It makes more sense that what tricked her perception of distance was something that she adjusted to immediately after her intro case, which is her glasses. Adjusting to new glasses takes normally just a couple of days. Glasses has also been a very prominent part in disguises in DC, and since it's common among teachers, it makes sense that she would complete her disguise with that(like Conan in File 2).



Her interaction with Kuroda didn't imply any prior knowledge of him, but rather just her trying to verify what he knows about her. Since he treated her like a criminal(by asking for her permission about calling the police)(File 987), she most likely suspected that he might know that she's Vermouth in disguise. In order to get information out of him, she intentionally tried to push him into a corner until he made a slip-up, which revealed that he only read about her in the news(File 988).



In other words, Rumi was simply overthinking about Kuroda's knowledge. It's possible that Gosho was foreshadowing this development during Rumi's previous appearance. Gosho drew Conan with a reflection on his right lense while thinking "I thought a little to deep this time"(File 979). The glass reflection could have been intentional in order to create a parallell with Rumi(who always has a reflection on her right lense when she's serious), in order to foreshadow that she's gonna think deeper than necessary in her next appearance(File 987-989). This isn't unlikely, since the end of that Golfer case(File 980) was also setting up the events in Rumi's next appearance(with Kuroda seeing Rumi's name in the news).



I've seen arguments saying that Vermouth would have never tried to corner a Superintendent like that, but considering that we had a scene(specifically addressing the consequences of those actions) in which Bourbon explained to Vermouth that law enforcers can do nothing without proof(File 898), I disagree with those arguments.



During Rumi's introduction, we had a scene with Teitan Elementary School's principal Uematsu Ryujiro. This principal has only appeared once in the past, and that was during Kobayashi's introduction(File 154). This principal is full of words of wisdom, but it's worth to note that Gosho is most likely using them as a foreshadowing device. In File 154, Uematsu said "All secrets will be revealed somehow", which directly coincides with Conan's current circumstances in which Ran's suspicion was in full effect(leading up to Desperate revival).



Similarly to this, in File 966, Uematsu said "People who commit sins must atone... or they will spend the rest of their lives cowering in fear... or die a dog's death". This is most likely meant to coincide with Rumi's circumstance(who was listening to him). Rumi has shown ruthlessness of a killer at least three times now. She said the sentence of a murderer(File 968), She let a murder happen(File 978) and she even used murder experience as a way to save a hostage(File 989). These instances have all been implying that she's a killer, a sinner, and with Uematsu's words, it's implying that a dog's death is awaiting her(since she's neither atoning or cowering in fear). This all once again goes in line with Vermouth's character, who is a sinner that is expected to eventually die for her treasures(Ran and Shinichi).

 

The Kohji Case

 

Haneda Kohji

Something new that was found out was the fact that Kohji was clenching an unknown object, along with the scissor, that left a mark on the middle of his palm(File 948). This fact seems to imply that there's a missing part to the dying message, and that the unknown object was taken from the crime scene after Kohji's death. Since Kohji is a shogi player, the likelihood that he was holding a shogi piece is high.



There's however a possibility that an actual clue was left towards it. Rumi was holding onto what looked like the "U" shard. For Gosho to emphasize its shape in a cliffhanger(File 989), it would mean that its shape is important. Considering that it looked like a Shogi piece at first glance, it's possible that the "U" shard was intended to look like it. This would mean that Kohji was alluding to that a Shogi piece was involved in the dying message(most likely as a precaution, in case the culprit took that shogi piece from his hand). Because that shard has a "U", it could be representing the "Uma"(horse) piece. The "Pirate's Spirit" horse in Wakita's introduction could have been foreshadowing the importance of "horse" as well, since the "horse" was used as a parallel to "Rum"(as if it serves the purpose of identifying him)(File 975).



This leaves us with the dying message "U MASCARA" and the shogi piece "UMA".
If the "U" shard has the purpose of identifying the missing shogi piece, then from a narrative standpoint, it's less likely that Rumi has that shogi piece with her(since there's no point in having a map if you already have the treasure). Some can argue that the shape under the "U" shard, in Rumi's pocket, is the shogi piece, but that can also be the shape of a fragment that broke off from the shard after Rumi fell to the ground(File 989).



Asaka

A mistake that I did during my Rumi discussion is that I assumed that Hotta Gaito thought Asaka was a woman because she was seen with a hand-mirror. The reality is that he had a separate information about Asaka being a woman(File 953). This increases the likelihood that Asaka is a woman, since it's possibly based on a source, and not on an assumption.



Something else that was a mistranslation is what Haibara said to Agasa about Kohji's hand-mirror(File 948). Rather than saying "Perhaps it was given to him by someone", she said "Maybe Haneda Kohji inherited it from his mother as well".



Haibara was specifically relating her sister's experience to Kohji, about inheriting a hand-mirror from their mother. However, since we know that Asaka was seen with a hand-mirror, Haibara's sentence could be giving an actual clue. Rather than Kohji inheriting the mirror from his mother, it's possible that Asaka inherited it instead. Since Asaka was most likely seen with the hand-mirror while using it, it probably belonged to her, and was then lent to Kohji and later used for the dying message(as mentioned in my Kohji case discussion). Since Haibara was relating her story to Kohji's, it's possible that Gosho was using her sentence to hint that Kohji's sister inherited it from their mother.



In other words, Asaka is actually Kohji's sister who, rather than coming with him to the US as a bodyguard, came with him as a sister that was gonna support him during the chess tournament. Following my previous speculations, this means that when Amanda visited him, Kohji wasn't just offering his trusted bodyguard to help Amanda, but his well-trained sister. If that's the case, then "Asaka" is definitely an alias, since she would've been immediately identified if Kohji had a sister named Asaka.

In my previous discussion about the Kohji case, I stated two possibilities to what happened to Asaka when Amanda was killed. The first one was that Rum didn't clean up a messy room, meaning that Amanda was sneakily poisoned, and because Rum didn't anticipate that Asaka was gonna be in her room, Asaka was able to bypass him. The issue with this is the fact that Amanda and Asaka were seen outside of the room(which is why people heard Amanda call her bodyguard "Asaka", according to the website) and therefore makes it questionable that Rum didn't see her bodyguard. The second one is the fact that Rum didn't verify his kill before killing Kohji(which should be a standard procedure for the BO). The second alternative however was that Rum did clean up a messy room, meaning that Rum did in fact attack both Amanda and Asaka and fed both of them the prototype, which failed to kill Asaka(and lead to her disappearance). This scenario makes the most sense and also explains Rumi's motives.

Akai Tsutomu

According to my previous speculations, Tsutomu interrupted Rum's assassination and fought against him until Rum had to flee. This theory has further been supported by new information that Gosho revealed in the recent Super Digest Book 90+ Q&A. Gosho revealed that Akai Tsutomu is a Jeet Kune Do practitioner.



This would mean that Tsutomu used Jeet Kune Do to fight against Rum. Since Akai demonstrated the finger jab technique during the flashback, that revealed information about Tsutomu(File 972), it's highly possible that Tsutomu used that against Rum to blind him, which ultimately forced Rum to flee from the crime scene without cleaning it up. 



As mentioned by Akai, this technique blinds your opponent, but it's only temporary. There are cases where the cornea(eye surface) gets scratched by the nail and ultimately gets infected, which could lead to blindness, and in worst case scenario, getting a prosthetic, but that wouldn't exactly be called "some sort of accident"(which Haibara referred his eye loss as in File 908).



The Kohji Website's uploader

Another translation error that was cleared up was the fact that Agasa never claimed that the uploader of the Kohji case knew "minute detail", but was rather asking Conan how he knew that Kohji resisted his killer(File 948). This means that the uploader isn't necessarily someone that was there in the crime scene, meaning that Tsutomu(or someone he shared info with) and Asaka aren't the only options.

If Asaka isn't the uploader, then it's possible that she is the one that took the shogi piece from Kohji's hand, after surviving the prototype drug(since she wouldn't have any regards for preserving the crime scene in order to share it online). This would mean that Asaka has the "Uma" piece("treasure"), and fake Asaka(Rumi) has the "U" shard("map"), that is hinting to the "Uma" piece.

Since the uploader wasn't necessarily involved in the crime scene, the uploader could most likely be Mary and Sera after all. Since they are clearly interested in Haneda Kohji's case and Asaka(File 952-953), it's definitely possible that Mary got a hold of the crime scene photos from James, in order to get help and conduct her own investigation on Tsutomu's disappearance while in Japan. Since the website keeps going down, Mary would naturally suspect that it's the BO's doing, and therefore worry that they might make their move during Hotta Gaito's case(File 952).

 

Iori Muga

 

In my Iori discussion, when I was talking about his age, I mentioned that he was at least 13. That was because we have a precedent in which a fake identity can be younger than the real age. Who I'm referring to is Okiya Subaru, who is 27 years old(File 623), while his true identity, Akai Shuichi, was confirmed by Gosho to be 31-32 years old(SDB 90+).

This means that a character can be 4-5 years older than the number in their name box. Following that logic, Iori might've been 17-18 years old, which would've made him more suitable to carry out assassinations 17 years ago if he's Rum.

There's however another incident, besides Subaru/Akai, that happened in Rum Arc. Satami Saya, from the blogger case(File 918-920), was introduced as a 24-year-old, but at  the conclusion of that case, we found out that she was hiding the fact that she was 29 years old(5 years older).



The fact that we have a case in Rum arc that reveals that a character is 5 years older(the same number as Subaru/Akai) than what they claimed to be makes it highly possible that it is meant to tell us that the age in the name box cannot be fully trusted in Rum arc. The fact that this happens in a case where a Rum plot character is involved(Kuroda) further supports this interpretation. Following the number that Gosho chose in Saya's case, if Iori is Rum, then he was most likely 18 years old when he killed Amanda and Kohji(which isn't that far off from the main red-herring's/Rumi's age).

Gosho has shown that he is aware that the fans are gonna look at the age for every suspect. An example to his awareness is how he made Rumi emphasize her fitting age to be involved in the Kohji case by saying that she's 10 years older than Kobayashi(File 966). For him to use the name box as a way to hide Rum's fitting age makes sense. The fact that Gosho gave Iori a very suspicious and new style of introduction, in which he got a name box with "????", further makes it look like he's intentionally highlighting the name box this way in order to make the reader focus on the name box when the identity is revealed(as if there's something important about it).

 

Summary:

 

- Wakita Kanenori is the closest subordinate of the boss and the one that drugged Mary. He might be a mentor figure to Gin.

- Wakasa Rumi is Vermouth in disguise. She is trying to pose as Asaka in order to get Conan's help in solving the dying message so that she can find and eliminate the real Asaka. Rumi got a hold of the "U" shard from Kohji's crime scene, which she was planning on showing to Conan when she got the chance.

- Haneda Kohji's dying message involves the "Uma"(horse) shogi piece, which the "U" shard was hinting towards, and it was taken from the crime scene.
- Asaka is Kohji's sister, who inherited the hand-mirror from her mother and lent it to Kohji before he died. She was also fed the SB prototype, along with Amanda, but survived. She was the one that took the shogi piece from the crime scene, before she escaped.
- Tsutomu used Jeet Kune Do against Rum, and used the finger jab technique to blind him, which forced Rum to escape and leave the crime scene messy.
- The Kohji case uploader is most likely Mary and Sera, who got the case info and photos from James Black.

- If Iori is Rum, he's 35 years old and was actually 18 when he killed Amanda and Kohji 17 years ago.

 

[Kitahata 1]

On 6/5/2017 at 0:40 PM, Otaku3670 said:

The DC wiki shows that Kuroda's name is inflenced by a General Kuroda Kanbei who spearheaded campaigns again the Mori dynasty.

 

Yeah, that's why I was thinking... that his name might be a hint that he's an ally to the protagonists. 

 

In the wiki it says that Shuukichi's name is a reference to Toyotomi Hideyoshi, and the parallel has been highlighted in the manga a few times. In Japanese history, Hideyoshi's closest advisors were his half-brother Hidenaga (also known as Kouichirou) and Kuroda Kanbei. If this is a hint that the person paralleled to Hidenaga is Haneda Kouji, then it could be that superintendent Kuroda fills the spot of Kanbei. Maybe his injury was relevant to the Black Org, but he's not an enemy?

 

Gosho has introduced characters with samurai names just for the heck of it a few times, but superintendent Kuroda's introduction is really bugging me because his name is "out of place". And he was immediately introduced as a suspect/candidate for Rum, so it feels like this is something to take note of. And speaking of "out of place", Shuukichi is the only person in the Akai family (so far anyway) whose name isn't related to Gundam. 

[Otaku3670 3]

I personally think that Kuroda is a infiltrator in BO who made BO believe that they can put him as an infiltrator in the Police. He's surely after Kohji's killer/Rum, that's why he's so fixated on the website which uploads Kohji case mystery. 

But when we saw how he recalled the website in his memory when he was drawing a parallel between the pose of Kohji's body and the posture of the Golfer when he was knocked by Rumi.

Also Rumi's picture made him go after her, so probably (it's my opinion though) that Kuroda saw Rumi near the crime scene of Kohji case, I think Kuroda never saw Kohji's body but had a chance to hang around the Juke hotel(Crime scene).

So he may be an ally of Shukichi but he's a rival of the Mori's(Ran and Kogoro). Which prompts me to think that he's an infiltrator in BO with close ties with Shukichi.(Akai Tsutomu).

[Jo Ndule 0]

Hello

I'm new here but Conan fan since 2012

 

I really like detective series, Manga etc...

 

You guys are really into it

I miss watching Conan and reading them

[MeiTanteixX 184]

11 hours ago, Jo Ndule said:

Hello

I'm new here but Conan fan since 2012

 

I really like detective series, Manga etc...

 

You guys are really into it

I miss watching Conan and reading them

Welcome!

Nice to have new members joining here.

I'm also a long-term fan(a mystery otaku).

[Otaku3670 3]

Just decoded the true Kanji reading of Wakita's name.

脇田 兼則 , where  脇 means "Side ,3rd party." 田 means "rice field", 兼 is very closer to "detest, hate." 則 means "modelled after."

 

Now there's a fungus used in rice fermentation known as Koji fungus and, the rice is called Koji rice.

So I can now speculate that Wakita is related to Haneda Kohji case and is modelled after someone(Danpei tange), is a side character in that case and hates something/someone(probably Rum).