Suspicious characters! Discussion about Hyoue Kuroda, Wakasa Rumi, and others.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

20 hours ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

Hey all, my latest theory regarding the whole Rum arc. Is that most likely Hyoue & Rumi are not Rum, I cannot say I have conclusive evidence, however the mere fact that they met during the camping incident, and Rumi's confrontation with the culprit, made me feel uneasy about how Kuroda reacted. If one was Rum, the other knew, if the other person did not know, it is most likely that Rum (or them) was not in the Haneda's scene, because their level of intelligence  (that may surpass Conan's) would lead them to figure the identity of Rum at the crime scene. Rumi (If she is Rum), would know Kuroda's purpose is to spy on her, and therefore would take actions to escape any chance that would lead to her identity. Kuroda (if he is Rum) would not confront Rumi, who is related to Haneda's mystery, without jeopradizing her suspisiousness towards him. If Kurodoa is Rum he would rather avoid Rumi, who might deduce who he is. If both did not know the other, I doubt Rumi would show off her skills in front of Kuroda (to her he might be Rum). Kuroda would not confront Rumi (who to him might be Rum), on the ground that he is watching over, and keeping her in a school where young lives at stake. On this basis, Rum is neither for most chances, unless proven otherwise. 

 

Kanenori, is a great candidate. But for a second in hand to command a large syndicate as big as BO, and the desire to remain unknown, would suggest he would rather attract less attention to himself, even if he tries to hide in plain sight. And his wholesome intention to become a disciple of a famous detective (Kogoro), would inspire others to look into him, such as Conan, and his quirky look, would raise questions, specially if Rum, who most likely knows about the descriptions people say about him, would mind fitting the image or a characteristic in a way or another in public. Rum would most likely, appear in the three different ways he is described, only inside the BO, while in public he would/should change his appearance to avoid any traces of him. If he have a damaged eye, he'd rather hide it or damage both eyes, if he seems feminine, he'd rather appear ambiguous looking, the same goes for a strong man.

 

Rum, most likely, has not appeared in whole appearance to the people who described him. The BO agents, described his characteristics, based on his approach, which would raise the question of the eye problem. If all agreed, that Rum have an eye that is prosthetic or damaged, it must mean that they saw him. Yet, it might be a way of Rum to throw off descriptions of him by giving different traits, with one similar characteristic, so when he is investigated, it would mislead the investigators in something that did not exist. Again, the descriptions, have transferred to Haibara who relayed them to Conan, (Who btw, didn't even bother telling Conan Anokata's phone number, even though she was not surprised to know he figured it out), in accordance with her intentions to mislead Conan  away from the BO so he would not be a matter of concern. Rum's awareness, like Gin about Sherry's escape from the BO, and that she must have had help, before her assumed death, would mean she told someone info on the BO, and Rum's different descriptions would've made their way into a stranger.

 

Iori Muga, to me personally, is most suspicious. Like said above by MeiTanteixX, his concern over time, would relate logicaly to Rum. He has no worries about people finding out his time calculations, and he should not. Since only the people he told that time is precious, should be matter of concern to him, like Amuro, however he considers Amuro a top ranking BO agent. And following the theory of MeiTanteixX, about G & UMA, which I find to be very possible. I would not be surprised if Muga turns out to be Rum,.

 

Another thing to consider, that Kuroda is not Rum, is the fact that he is Rei's superior. While he may still be a suspect, he would know about the agents awaiting at Kudo's residence during the Scarlet Arc. Thus, he would question the whole Akai's conversation with Rei over the phone, and the PSB that chased him, would lead to the BO's figuring out his whole fake death incident, if he is Rum.

 

Kanenori, if Rum, would be a compromise of concealment, to be known to Kogoro, Amuro and others, as a disciple to Kogoro, with the looks he has, and the possible chance some would know of his descriptions following Haibara's escape from BO, even before her assumed death.

 

Rumi, while as mysterious as she is, would not throw her mysterious character to be a matter of study and observation to others, if she is Rum, not to Kuroda who is in police, nor to Conan, whose skills of deduction, she know of. I cannot imagine a scenario where the 2nd in command, would not mind be around someone who can investigate him, unless he wants to.

 

Rum, is in rush. As evident by his message to Amuro "Time is Money", mostly the general concept is that Rum's current objective is to find out any spies within the BO,  while staying hidden. He/She, is currently active, while maintaining the order of BO. means he/she must balance between the two. As to why he is in hurry, it may be due to; 1. following a lead to find something out before it becomes apparent or escape. 2. To rush others to fall victims of time and therefore revealing their true allegiance, 3. to actually win something over in the least time possible.

 

Since time is of the essence to Rum, I've been wondering if it has anything to do with Anokata himself. Since Anokata(Karasuma), is related to the whole time concept, raising the dead, over half a century of existence. I wonder if something is up that may actually be the reason why Rum is in a rush. Which would lead back to the Muga's obssession with time and seconds, and his attempt to calculate time to the second for fullest time employment. ..

 

Honestly, the twist that the butler of a romance subplot character is Rum actually looks pretty valid to me. 

 

The only issue is that, in Super Digest Book Black Plus, Gosho said that Rum was either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori—and only one of those three—his answer to that specific question didn't leave room for him to give an evasive answer and leave open the possibility of a fourth suspect. If it turns out there is a fourth suspect, and that suspect is Rum, then Gosho didn't just mislead, evade, or misdirect with this answer—he straight-up lied. And I don't recall Gosho straight-up lying when it comes to questions regarding the unrevealed big mysteries of the series. I don't recall him ever declaring, be it in Let's Talk Days or SDBs or interviews—before the reveals—that Vermouth wasn't disguised as Dr. Ariade, or that Hidemi Hondō and Rena Mizunashi weren't the same person, or that Scar Akai was Bourbon, or that Bourbon was Tōru Amuro. So I don't think he'd lie about Rum only being either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori.

 

In spite of this, I can't deny the possibility that Kanenori is actually Tsutomu Akai—if there was evidence proving he couldn't be Papa Akai, though, then I'd easily name him as my top suspect, even above Muga.

 

For me, the possibility that Kanenori = Papa Akai and Gosho's answer to that SDB Black+ question are my biggest points of contention—if it turns out that there are only 3 Rum suspects, and Kanenori turns out to be Tsutomu, then Rum must be Hyōe or Rumi (I don't honestly think that Rum is Tsutomu—Gosho subverting Shūichi's Gundam-inspired backstory and make his dad the second biggest of the bads, instead of really dead and/or a heroic figure, is quite a longshot).

 

If it ends up that only Hyōe or Rumi can be Rum, then one of them has been playing the long game and biding time, in spite of knowing info that could be devastating to Team Conan if they simply acted on it—Rum waiting to spring a trap on Team Conan and the NOCs despite knowing such important info to his goal seems to go against his impatience.

 

From here, we have to consider the Vermouth = Rumi possibility. If that's true, and Tsutomu is Kanenori (and not Rum), then Hyōe must be Rum (assuming there is no fourth suspect, of course). I want to say that Hyōe's knowledge precludes him from the suspect list completely, but I just don't know if he's biding his time or not.

 

So, at this time, my ranking of the suspects, in terms of how likely it is that they'll turn out to be Rum, goes like this:

Most likely: Kanenori and/or Muga

Second-most likely: Rumi

Least likely: Hyōe

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

5 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

Honestly, the twist that the butler of a romance subplot character is Rum actually looks pretty valid to me. 

 

The only issue is that, in Super Digest Book Black Plus, Gosho said that Rum was either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori—and only one of those three—his answer to that specific question didn't leave room for him to give an evasive answer and leave open the possibility of a fourth suspect. If it turns out there is a fourth suspect, and that suspect is Rum, then Gosho didn't just mislead, evade, or misdirect with this answer—he straight-up lied. And I don't recall Gosho straight-up lying when it comes to questions regarding the unrevealed big mysteries of the series. I don't recall him ever declaring, be it in Let's Talk Days or SDBs or interviews—before the reveals—that Vermouth wasn't disguised as Dr. Ariade, or that Hidemi Hondō and Rena Mizunashi weren't the same person, or that Scar Akai was Bourbon, or that Bourbon was Tōru Amuro. So I don't think he'd lie about Rum only being either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori.

 

In spite of this, I can't deny the possibility that Kanenori is actually Tsutomu Akai—if there was evidence proving he couldn't be Papa Akai, though, then I'd easily name him as my top suspect, even above Muga.

 

For me, the possibility that Kanenori = Papa Akai and Gosho's answer to that SDB Black+ question are my biggest points of contention—if it turns out that there are only 3 Rum suspects, and Kanenori turns out to be Tsutomu, then Rum must be Hyōe or Rumi (I don't honestly think that Rum is Tsutomu—Gosho subverting Shūichi's Gundam-inspired backstory and make his dad the second biggest of the bads, instead of really dead and/or a heroic figure, is quite a longshot).

 

If it ends up that only Hyōe or Rumi can be Rum, then one of them has been playing the long game and biding time, in spite of knowing info that could be devastating to Team Conan if they simply acted on it—Rum waiting to spring a trap on Team Conan and the NOCs despite knowing such important info to his goal seems to go against his impatience.

 

From here, we have to consider the Vermouth = Rumi possibility. If that's true, and Tsutomu is Kanenori (and not Rum), then Hyōe must be Rum (assuming there is no fourth suspect, of course). I want to say that Hyōe's knowledge precludes him from the suspect list completely, but I just don't know if he's biding his time or not.

 

So, at this time, my ranking of the suspects, in terms of how likely it is that they'll turn out to be Rum, goes like this:

Most likely: Kanenori and/or Muga

Second-most likely: Rumi

Least likely: Hyōe

 

I totally forgot  about the SDB, that according to Gosho Rum is one of the three. I know I am suiting theories, however, the theory that one of the three is another 'third' face of Rum is plausible, like Amuro and Kir, Rum plays the role of three people, his usual Rum, the Muga (though we are stretching the idea), and another third face.  If Rum, inside the BO, is a 'face', Rum being a butler Muga is another 'face', and a third possibilty is another 'Face', it could match the three theories of 3 personnas. If the butler is the feminine trait, and the Rum' is the old trait, the strong trait is the one left, which could be attributed to any of the three suspects, Hyouei, Rumi and Wakita. Going along with the answer Gosho made about one of the three is Rum. while also Muga and another personna are Rum all together...

[MeiTanteixX 184]

On 9/6/2019 at 1:49 AM, DCUniverseAficionado said:

The only issue is that, in Super Digest Book Black Plus, Gosho said that Rum was either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori—and only one of those three—his answer to that specific question didn't leave room for him to give an evasive answer and leave open the possibility of a fourth suspect. If it turns out there is a fourth suspect, and that suspect is Rum, then Gosho didn't just mislead, evade, or misdirect with this answer—he straight-up lied. And I don't recall Gosho straight-up lying when it comes to questions regarding the unrevealed big mysteries of the series. I don't recall him ever declaring, be it in Let's Talk Days or SDBs or interviews—before the reveals—that Vermouth wasn't disguised as Dr. Ariade, or that Hidemi Hondō and Rena Mizunashi weren't the same person, or that Scar Akai was Bourbon, or that Bourbon was Tōru Amuro. So I don't think he'd lie about Rum only being either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori.

I actually have a theory which fits with his seemingly confirming reply to SDB BLACK+ Q92 “Is Rum certainly amongst the trio Kuroda, Wakasa & Wakita?”.

I don’t actually think it’s as straightforward as he made it seem.

 

I think that his reply stems from the fact that...

"Wakita Kanenori = Highball" Theory

Wakita Kanenori is the former “Rum” in the BO, and his current code-name is actually the same as the drink that was referenced in his introduction, “Highball” (File 975). Highball is a cocktail drink that is a mix of a liquor and non-alcoholic drink, and a common one among them is “Rum + Coke”.

Spoiler

These two drinks were also referenced in his intro (as “Pirate’s spirit” & “Cola”) along with "Highball".

Spoiler

 

I think that after passing on the second-in-command title, he was given this cocktail code-name as a symbol of that he is not the same Rum anymore (the same concentration of Rum in the drink in other words).

 

In other words, from my perspective, Gosho is pulling another misleading comment like he did with Animal Crossing for File 906 (where "Rum" he is thinking of is not the same as the one you would originally think), where he had said “Rum has actually already appeared (laughs)” (which was actually referring to Lum).

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

9 hours ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

I totally forgot  about the SDB, that according to Gosho Rum is one of the three. I know I am suiting theories, however, the theory that one of the three is another 'third' face of Rum is plausible, like Amuro and Kir, Rum plays the role of three people, his usual Rum, the Muga (though we are stretching the idea), and another third face.  If Rum, inside the BO, is a 'face', Rum being a butler Muga is another 'face', and a third possibilty is another 'Face', it could match the three theories of 3 personnas. If the butler is the feminine trait, and the Rum' is the old trait, the strong trait is the one left, which could be attributed to any of the three suspects, Hyouei, Rumi and Wakita. Going along with the answer Gosho made about one of the three is Rum. while also Muga and another personna are Rum all together...

 

So you're claiming Muga and one of those three (Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori) are actually the same person? 

 

9 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

I actually have a theory which fits with his seemingly confirming reply to SDB BLACK+ Q92 “Is Rum certainly amongst the trio Kuroda, Wakasa & Wakita?”.

I don’t actually think it’s as straightforward as he made it seem.

 

I think that his reply stems from the fact that...

"Wakita Kanenori = Highball" Theory

  Reveal hidden contents

Wakita Kanenori is the former “Rum” in the BO, and his current codename is actually the same as the drink that was referenced in his introduction, “Highball” (File 975).

 

Highball is a cocktail drink that is a mix of a liquor and non-alchoholic drink, and a common one among them is “Rum + Coke”.

 

These two drinks were also referenced in his intro (as “pirate’s spirit” & “Cola”).

 

I think that after passing on the second-in-command title, he was given this cocktail codename as a symbol of that he is not the same Rum anymore (the same concentration of Rum in the drink basically).

 

In other words, from my perspective, Gosho is pulling another misleading comment like he did with Animal Crossing for File 906 (where "Rum" he is thinking of is not the same as the one you would originally think), where he had said “Rum has actually already appeared (laughs)” (which was actually referring to Lum).

 

Spoiler

Ah, that's right... there was a question also asked in SDB Black Plus about if codenames can be inherited... okay, by those terms, yes—he didn't specify whether the Rum he was referring to was currently Rum or formerly Rum, so I guess that's how he could be shifty, there.

 

So Kanenori's just the bitter former second in command, and Muga is the man who passed him up?

 

Then why was Muga at Juke Hotel 17 years ago instead of Kanenori? Had he already been forced to step aside for Muga, by then? In other words, has Kanenori had the codename "Highball" since 17 years ago, or even before that?

 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

  Hide contents

Ah, that's right... there was a question also asked in SDB Black Plus about if codenames can be inherited... okay, by those terms, yes—he didn't specify whether the Rum he was referring to was currently Rum or formerly Rum, so I guess that's how he could be shifty, there.

 

Spoiler

Yes, and not just in that sense, but also that "Highball", his potential current codename, could by technicality also be considered as Rum (only that it has coke as ingredient as well). Basically, "Rum" is indeed amongst the trio, but not the second-in-command Rum. 

Quote

Spoiler

So Kanenori's just the bitter former second in command, and Muga is the man who passed him up?

 

Spoiler

Not necessarily a bitter one, but at the very least an underestimating (of Rum) one.

 

Perhaps he preferred that Gin took the mantel instead, if Wakita's current mission/actions that aligns with Gin's interest (and if the "demon in the dark" idiom, which Gin & Wakita's potential drugging target quoted, originates from Wakita) is any indication of a mentor-student relationship (since Wakita design is inspired by a mentor character).

Quote

Spoiler

Then why was Muga at Juke Hotel 17 years ago instead of Kanenori? Had he already been forced to step aside for Muga, by then? In other words, has Kanenori had the codename "Highball" since 17 years ago, or even before that?

 

Spoiler

If the dying message is indeed implicating Muga as according to my theory, then that would be the natural assumption.

 

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

14 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

So you're claiming Muga and one of those three (Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori) are actually the same person? 

 

 

  Hide contents

Ah, that's right... there was a question also asked in SDB Black Plus about if codenames can be inherited... okay, by those terms, yes—he didn't specify whether the Rum he was referring to was currently Rum or formerly Rum, so I guess that's how he could be shifty, there.

 

So Kanenori's just the bitter former second in command, and Muga is the man who passed him up?

 

Then why was Muga at Juke Hotel 17 years ago instead of Kanenori? Had he already been forced to step aside for Muga, by then? In other words, has Kanenori had the codename "Highball" since 17 years ago, or even before that?

 

The possibility exists, the fact is, according to Gosho. Rum is within the three (Kuroda, Kanenori & Rumi), so what remains to conclude, is whether the Rum he is speaking of is a 'face' of a three ways Rum, or like you & MeiTanteixX discuss, that Rum is a former Rum, and a new Rum is in current position.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

15 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

Spoiler

Yes, and not just in that sense, but also that "Highball", his potential current codename, could by technicality also be considered as Rum (only that it has coke as ingredient as well). Basically, "Rum" is indeed amongst the trio, but not the second-in-command Rum. 

 

Spoiler

 

Not necessarily a bitter one, but at the very least an underestimating (of Rum) one.

 

Perhaps he preferred that Gin took the mantel instead, if Wakita's current mission/actions that aligns with Gin's interest (and if the "demon in the dark" idiom, which Gin & Wakita's potential drugging target quoted, originates from Wakita) is any indication of a mentor-student relationship (since Wakita design is inspired by a mentor character).

 

 

Spoiler

If the dying message is indeed implicating Muga as according to my theory, then that would be the natural assumption.

 

 

Gotcha.

 

Essentially, I'm captivated by the uncertainty before me, right now. Regardless of what I consider to be the most probable or likely, I could see the Rum arc potentially going in completely separate directions—I'm not absolutely certain of Gosho's true answer. In the end, I'd be down for Muga or the other three turning out to be Rum. 

 

At the same time, I'm eager to have an answer—to see where Gosho intends to go with this.

 

2 hours ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

The possibility exists, the fact is, according to Gosho. Rum is within the three (Kuroda, Kanenori & Rumi), so what remains to conclude, is whether the Rum he is speaking of is a 'face' of a three ways Rum, or like you & MeiTanteixX discuss, that Rum is a former Rum, and a new Rum is in current position.

 

I'd say the latter possibility is more likely, but, yes—I now concur that Gosho could have been misleading with the answer to that question, and thus, Muga could still be Rum.

 

 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

Oooka & Haneda household connection

 

Recent development from File 1042 makes Iori Muga even more suspicious, since we now found out that the Haneda household is a wealthy associate of the Oooka household.

Spoiler

His position as a Butler for the Oooka, who seems to be trusted and relied on by the Haneda, makes for a perfect information source (without getting too close to the target) about what they know about the Kohji case and what they are up to, to cover for his 17-year-old mistake (File 953), especially if RUM suspects (naturally) that the Haneda family are behind the repeated Kohji case information upload online (File 948) which the BO keeps taking down.

Spoiler

 

[Otaku3670 3]

Something still bugs me, why did Rum allow Soul detective to rant about Kohji case resolution but was very wary about Asaca song case?

[MeiTanteixX 184]

2 minutes ago, Otaku3670 said:

Something still bugs me, why did Rum allow Soul detective to rant about Kohji case resolution but was very wary about Asaca song case?

Rum specifically wasn't shown to be wary of either or. We just know the BO as a whole had their attention on both cases, because it's connected to Rum's mistake. As for Hotta, he wasn't shown to be an "allowed"/dismissed Kohji case investigator by BO. We just didn't follow the BO perspective in regards to his Kohji case segment announcement (except at the very end through Gin & Vodka after his death), as we did through Bourbon & Vermouth with Rokumichi's ASACA song announcement.

[RanSakura4869 0]

Hyoue Kuroda, cuz, well, if you read Vol. 97, you’ll understand. Or just,... read the spoilers for the next volume at the end of Vol.96

[Spitfire 0]

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this before, but;

 

 

I think Rum is between Wakasa Rumi and Wakita Kanenori.

 

 

My guess is Wakasa Rumi was probably Rum, until the death of Kohji Haneda. It affected her and she did something that led to her being exiled/'killed off' by the BO.

At that time, she was also most likely Asaka, that bodyguard who went missing 17 years back. This possibility fits her age, her combat capabilities (like how she KO-ed the 3 thieves in the school shed in a single strike each, not making it look too brutal), and the 'image' of her in the past in that suit.

The scars on her arms and her sadism may or may not have played a part in her being Rum before.

 

Well, to be honest, the main reason I think she's the previous Rum is because of her current name.

Wakasa Rumi >  I was AKA Rum

Though, I don't know if the BO does this kind of member replacement.

But this possibility could also explain why there's tension between Hyoue Kuroda and her, how he was possibly on her trail when she was still Rum.

One minor reason, she was seen to be smarter/sharper than Kudo in that Skeleton Case, providing him with hints more than once, fitting for a #2 in the BO.

 

 

 

Now for Wakita Kanenori. Basically, since I feel that Hyoue Kuroda is a real officer, and that Wakasa Rumi is who I think she is, Wakita Kanenori the bunny chef should be Rum, unless *plot twist* it's someone else other than these 3 suspects.

There is also this theory on his name, where Bourbon received a text from Rum with the phrase "Time is money".

Time is money > Tokiwa Kanenari > wakiTa Kanenori

 

 

But I'm probably wrong. Haha.

[Hanfois 5]

Takaaki morofushi

 

he is Rum,and i mentioned why i think he IS rum back in 2016

(He is the only one there who's never met Haibara yet, is it a coincidence?)

[Otaku3670 3]

I do think it's Hoye Kuroda. 
 

Wakita and Wakasa don't seem anything likely to be a culprit.

[Otaku3670 3]

On 10/10/2019 at 8:18 PM, MeiTanteixX said:

Rum specifically wasn't shown to be wary of either or. We just know the BO as a whole had their attention on both cases, because it's connected to Rum's mistake. As for Hotta, he wasn't shown to be an "allowed"/dismissed Kohji case investigator by BO. We just didn't follow the BO perspective in regards to his Kohji case segment announcement (except at the very end through Gin & Vodka after his death), as we did through Bourbon & Vermouth with Rokumichi's ASACA song announcement.

 

Well If Rum wasn't wary about Asaca song case why did Vermouth and Bourbon was sent to assess the situation and take a call accordingly ?

[Otaku3670 3]

Also just a rejoinder, the Highball=Rum +Coke is not a a valid idea. 
In Japan highball is referred to as Whiskey + Tonic water.  (So it's a stretch.)
Also snatching the codename of an alive member and putting it on Muga doesn't look something probable. (The answer was about the dead agents, unless you make the claim that Wakita being former Rum got into an accident and lost touch with BO and the codename got inherited by the new Rum.) but that also is a very bad argument. It would mean George Washinton is American president and not Trump.
Cause if Rum is a codename for a single person, Gosho is referring to that person only. 
I can imagine that someone coming and making an argument that Kuroda, Wakita and Rumi are just labels, so how can we be sure that by referring to Kuroda, Wakita and Rumi Gosho was referring to this trio and not Yui (whose name is Rumi in a secret society of female cops), Kansuke (who goes by the alias Kuroda when he goes to out investigate.) and Komei (He uses the Wakita as his handle name on a Kong Ming appreciation forum.)  ?

Just like you point to the (failed) /(damn incorrect) foreshadowing, one could say the trio appeared with a Rum suspect, hence they are Rum candidates and their prosthetic eye is hidden ?
 

[Rye 122]

I really can't help but suspect Iori Muga as RUM. Just a shot in the dark with the recent manga developments and RUM's eye for detail regarding the character usage (Hepburn/Hebon-shiki vs Kunrei-shiki romanization). Iori also seems to be into the Ogura Hyakunin Isshu (I'm guessing!) what with Momiji's engagements with karuta, so he might be keen on language use? It might be a long shot but it made sense in my head last night when I was mulling it over before heading to bed hehe. I'm also considering the possibility that the RUM codename may have been passed over, as well. My other suspect for RUM would be Kanenori. 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

On 10/31/2020 at 3:22 AM, Rye said:

I really can't help but suspect Iori Muga as RUM. Just a shot in the dark with the recent manga developments and RUM's eye for detail regarding the character usage (Hepburn/Hebon-shiki vs Kunrei-shiki romanization). Iori also seems to be into the Ogura Hyakunin Isshu (I'm guessing!) what with Momiji's engagements with karuta, so he might be keen on language use? It might be a long shot but it made sense in my head last night when I was mulling it over before heading to bed hehe. I'm also considering the possibility that the RUM codename may have been passed over, as well. My other suspect for RUM would be Kanenori. 

 

Yeah, in terms of "Rum is someone other than the 3 main suspects", he's still at the top of the list.

 

Kanenori being Rum makes sense, as far as occam's razor explanations go—in such a scenario, Rum would be doing what Bourbon did last arc, in a very simple reuse (becoming Kogorō's apprentice and working right next to the Mōri Detective Agency).

[Ibelinssj 0]

Have anyone realized that Hyoue Kuroda's favorite drink, Black Tea, when mixed with Rum will turn into Gunfire (cocktail)?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfire_(drink)

 

[qwerty 0]

Kuroda Hyoue is most likely Akai Tsutomu as he has been in coma for 10 years and Tsutomu has been missing since Haneda Kohji's murder case. He may have requested Zero's assistance  in order to gain info about the black organisation.

 

Wakasa Rumi is most likely Asaka from 17 years ago due to her combat skills. She is 37 now so she was about 20 during Haneda Kohji's murder case. She may have an unknown relationship with Haneda Kohji.

 

Akai Mary is the Akai family's mother and an SIS agent and nothing else(maybe).

 

On 8/15/2016 at 11:59 PM, APTX-1412 said:

Ryujiro Uematsu : according to the descriptions of haibara, we can add him also to RUM suspect list, he is old man and in chapter 966 he opened just one eye.

 

On 8/15/2016 at 11:59 PM, APTX-1412 said:

Yuzuki Fukui : the bartender from Kogoro in the bar episode, she looks very similar to Asaka, her hair is tied like Asaka and also her chin, and I didn’t see any one talk about her.

 

Nothing is special about these characters. They hardly appear in any chapters, give them a break.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

"Rum = Iori Muga / Wakita Kanenori" Theory Summary (Updated to File 1115)

Rum bending his knee for his "old man" disguise (like Kid)

Spoiler

Rum carrying two phones (like Fukamachi)

Spoiler

Rum having a monocular vision habit of turning his head often

Spoiler

Rum's history

Muga inherited his codename "Rum" from his father, who has served the boss for roughly 50 years. Muga is disguising as his father since at least 17 years back after being taught by Vermouth, to maintain his father's influence and control in the organization, without being judged for his young age as the new second-in-command.

Spoiler

Rum's goals

Most likely to find and eliminate the one who is behind the "Haneda Kohji murder case" info leaks online that highlights his 17-year-old screw-up (the dying message that exposes the Boss' surname "Karasuma"), as well as anyone that actively investigates that case.

Spoiler

His first move was most likely to watch/surveillance the actions of Haneda Kohji's noble family as "Iori Muga" (Butler of the Oooka family), using the Oooka's close connection to them (since the Haneda family seemingly rely and trust the Oooka household), since they would naturally be the first suspects behind the leaks.

Spoiler

His second move was to investigate the famous detective Mouri Kogoro, who got involved with the "Soul Detective" Hotta Gaito's Kohji case investigation (File 951-953), as "Wakita Kanenori" (old mystery-loving sushi chef), using Iroha sushi restaurant that is next-door to Mouri Detective Agency as a means to get close to him in order to verify if he is investigating the Kohji case and eliminate him if necessary (File 975-977).

Spoiler

Timeline speculation on Rum's relevant actions as "Iori Muga" (True appearance) & "Wakita Kanenori" (Fake appearance)

Spoiler

 

File 981-983:
Rum coincidentally finds Bourbon in Cafe Poirot while tailing Heiji, leading to him becoming suspicious of his closeness to Kogoro, as well as trying to flee from a potential crime scene to avoid further involvement and contact with Bourbon (in his true appearance).

File 1002-1003:
Rum appears to help Momiji, and then is absent for a moment before getting a chance to see Shinichi. After Shinichi and Heiji leaves with Ayanokoji, Rum appears and by chance misses Kudo Shinichi.

File 1005:
Rum sees Kudo Shinichi in the headlines and becomes suspicious of his alleged death.

File 1008:
Rum makes an attempt to get close to the Kudo mansion in order to investigate Shinichi himself, but fails due to the media's gathering. Rum then sees a suspicious redaction from the blogger, and realizes (after having already confirmed with Momiji that Shinichi was indeed involved in the Kyoto case) that there is a cover up and orders Bourbon by message to investigate Kudo Shinichi, knowing that he works in Café Poirot under Mouri's home, where Ran (Momiji's friend who is Kudo Shinichi's classmate) lives and can easily get info for him. The reason for ordering Bourbon could both have been to lighten the load for himself (as someone working with 2 active identities) and also so he can test Bourbon's loyalty (due to being close to someone that he suspects is investigating the Kohji case).

File 1011-1012:
Rum gets impatient and stresses Bourbon. He then gets some kind of intel reply from Bourbon (maybe the fact that Kudo Yusaku came to Japan) that is suspiciously lacking.

File 1027-1031:
Rum decides to take the opportunity to investigate Bourbon (as a potential traitor) after finding an opening to join in on Mouri's case, by looking into his relationship with Kogoro. Instead however, he notices that Conan, who is smart for a kid, is closer with Bourbon than initially perceived (during the Cafe Poirot case).

File 1039-1042:
Rum tells Momiji to involve Kudo Shinichi in her challenge to Heiji, in order to start investigating him himself once more (after not getting anywhere with Bourbon's help), but then starts noticing that Conan is close with Shinichi too. He then starts observing Conan more closely (to the point of later noticing a shift in his expression) and even rushes Momiji (by telling her about Heiji's romance plans) into offering him for Kudo Shinichi to rely on so he can directly converse with him and figure out his whereabouts, but fails.

File 1055-1057:
Rum continues his Kogoro investigation, and while solving the case also relies on and acknowledges Conan's capabilities (after having observed him with Bourbon and Heiji in the past) and decides to test his Kohji case knowledge by referencing the missing shogi piece from Kohji's crime scene discreetly, in case Conan, the smart kid, got involved with Kogoro's potential Kohji case investigation, but fails to get a revealing reaction.

File 1058-1060:
Rum sends Vermouth instead of Bourbon to verify whether Kudo Yusaku is an active threat towards the organization (due to his son's involvement), but still gets no helpful information.

File 1062-1066:
Rum leads and supports his BO subordinates to hunt and kill an FBI agent on the run. He learns that it's André Camel, who he once encountered 2 years ago while testing Rye's loyalty (similarly to how he is currently testing Bourbon's loyalty) while disguised as an old man.

File 1088-1090:

Rum reunites with his former coworker Kuroda Hyoue, who he worked with from 7 years ago (after Kuroda's coma) until 3 years ago while infiltrating the public security, and reveals while talking to Kuroda that he has officially found out about Bourbon's true identity of being an NPA undercover agent.

File 1100-1109:

Rum suspects Wakasa to be the bodyguard Asaka that he failed to eliminate 17 years ago, after she glared suspiciously at him (File 1072), and tries to gain information by asking Conan about her, but fails to get a helpful answer. He later hears about her going to a chess tournament with the kids, and makes an assassination attempt with Chianti and Korn's help, but gets outsmarted by her and confirms that she is indeed Asaka. Rum then considers de-aging his right eye to when it had a photographic memory ability using APTX4869, that he suspects has a de-aging side-effect, which is making his pursuit of the APTX4869 victim Kudo Shinichi all the more a priority.

File 1113-1115:

Rum witnesses Conan's true mature capabilities and competence on par with Heiji (a high school detective) after getting a chance to join in on Conan's and Heiji's plan to outsmart criminals, which further puts Conan's childish oblivious answer regarding Wakasa into question.

 

[Rosemary 8]

4 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

"Rum = Iori Muga / Wakita Kanenori (Karasuma Muga)" Theory Summary (Updated)

  Reveal hidden contents

Rum bending his knee for his "old man" disguise (like Kid)

  Reveal hidden contents

Rum carrying two phones (like Fukamachi)

  Reveal hidden contents

Rum's goals

Most likely to find and eliminate the one who is behind the "Haneda Kohji murder case" info leaks online that highlights his 17-year-old screw-up (the dying message that exposes his and the Boss' surname "Karasuma"), as well as anyone that actively investigates that case.

  Reveal hidden contents

His first move (that might be the activity that Kir was alerting with her message "RUM" in File 898) was most likely to watch/surveillance the actions of Haneda Kohji's noble family as "Iori Muga" (Butler of the Oooka family), using the Oooka's close connection to them (since the Haneda family seemingly rely and trust the Oooka household), since they would naturally be the first suspects behind the leaks.

  Reveal hidden contents

His second move was to investigate the famous detective Mouri Kogoro, who got involved with the "Soul Detective" Hotta Gaito's Kohji case investigation (File 951-953), as "Wakita Kanenori" (old mystery-loving sushi chef), using Iroha sushi restaurant that is next-door to Mouri Detective Agency as a means to get close to him in order to verify if he is investigating the Kohji case and eliminate him if necessary (File 975-977).

  Reveal hidden contents

Timeline speculation on Rum's relevant actions as "Iori Muga" (True appearance) & "Wakita Kanenori" (Fake appearance)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

File 981-983:
Rum coincidentally finds Bourbon in Cafe Poirot while tailing Heiji, leading to him becoming suspicious of his closeness to Kogoro, as well as trying to flee from a potential crime scene to avoid further involvement and contact with Bourbon (in his true appearance).


File 1002-1003:
Rum appears to help Momiji, and then leaves for a moment before getting to see Shinichi. After Shinichi and Heiji leaves with Ayanokoji, Rum appears and by chance misses Kudo Shinichi.


File 1005:
Rum sees Kudo Shinichi in the headlines and becomes suspicious of his alleged death.


File 1008:
Rum makes an attempt to get close to the Kudo mansion in order to investigate Shinichi himself, but fails due to the media's gathering. Rum then sees a suspicious redaction from the blogger, and realizes (after having already confirmed with Momiji that Shinichi was indeed involved in the Kyoto case) that there is a cover up and orders Bourbon by message to investigate Kudo Shinichi, knowing that he works in Café Poirot under Mouri's home, where Ran (Momiji's friend who is Kudo Shinichi's classmate) lives and can easily get info for him. The reason for ordering Bourbon could both have been to lighten the load for himself (as someone working with 2 active identities), but also so he can test Bourbon's loyalty (due to being close to someone that he suspects is investigating the Kohji case).


File 1011-1012:
Rum gets impatient and stresses Bourbon. He then gets some kind of intel reply from Bourbon (maybe the fact that Kudo Yusaku came to Japan) that is suspiciously lacking.


File 1027-1031:
Rum decides to take the opportunity to investigate Bourbon (as a potential traitor) after finding an opening to join in on Mouri's case, by looking into his relationship with Kogoro. Instead however, he notices that Conan, who is smart for a kid, is closer with Bourbon than initially perceived (during the Cafe Poirot case).


File 1039-1042:
Rum tells Momiji to involve Kudo Shinichi in her challenge to Heiji, in order to start investigating him himself once more (after not getting anywhere with Bourbon's help), but then starts noticing that Conan is close with Shinichi too. He then starts observing Conan more closely (to the point of later noticing a shift in his expression) and even rushes Momiji (by telling her about Heiji's romance plans) into offering him for Kudo Shinichi to rely on so he can directly converse with him and figure out his whereabouts, but fails.


File 1055-1057:
Rum continues his Kogoro investigation, and while solving the case also relies on and acknowledges Conan's capabilities (after having observed him with Bourbon and Heiji in the past) and decides to test his Kohji case knowledge by referencing the missing shogi piece from Kohji's crime scene discreetly, in case Conan, the smart kid, got involved with Kogoro's potential Kohji case investigation, but fails to get a revealing reaction.


File 1058-1060:
Rum sends Vermouth instead of Bourbon to verify whether Kudo Yusaku is an active threat towards the organization (due to his son's involvement), but still gets no helpful information.


File 1062-1066:
Rum leads and supports his BO subordinates to hunt and kill an FBI agent on the run. He learns that it's André Camel, who he once encountered 2 years ago while testing Rye's loyalty (similarly to how he is currently testing Bourbon's loyalty) while disguised as an old man.


 

 

This is a good theory if it turns out to be true. I've read it thoroughly and actually liked it but I have three concerns regarding Iori being RUM. First would be his age, he is 30 that makes him 13 years old around kohji murder case( considering his mentioned age true). Being no. 2 of the organisation or even being given the task to kill a person at such an age is unacceptable for me. Second would be his prosthetic eye, we haven't seen any indications that imply any of Iori's eyes being fake and the third would be how does he manage to be a butler in Ooka family and work at iroha sushi at the same time.

Although we can not ignore his impatience( RUM's trait) and Ooka family's relations with haneda family.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

On 12/18/2020 at 5:44 PM, Rosemary said:

 

  Hide contents

 

This is a good theory if it turns out to be true. I've read it thoroughly and actually liked it but I have three concerns regarding Iori being RUM. First would be his age, he is 30 that makes him 13 years old around kohji murder case( considering his mentioned age true). Being no. 2 of the organisation or even being given the task to kill a person at such an age is unacceptable for me. Second would be his prosthetic eye, we haven't seen any indications that imply any of Iori's eyes being fake and the third would be how does he manage to be a butler in Ooka family and work at iroha sushi at the same time.

Although we can not ignore his impatience( RUM's trait) and Ooka family's relations with haneda family.

 

 

On 12/18/2020 at 12:25 PM, MeiTanteixX said:

 

Rum having a monocular vision habit of turning his head often

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Spoiler

Looks like we finally got the indications to one of his eyes being a prosthetic eye (File 1089)

 

[Rosemary 8]

23 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Looks like we finally got the indications to one of his eyes being a prosthetic eye (File 1089)

 

Yeah, Iori is suspicious. Now we have to wait and see if this goes according to your theory. 

BTW What are your thoughts on Iori-Kuroda connection?

[MeiTanteixX 184]

On 3/10/2022 at 6:41 PM, Rosemary said:

 

  Hide contents

Yeah, Iori is suspicious. Now we have to wait and see if this goes according to your theory. 

 

BTW What are your thoughts on Iori-Kuroda connection?

 

 

I wrote about my thoughts on it here.