Suspicious characters! Discussion about Hyoue Kuroda, Wakasa Rumi, and others.

[Glass Heart 34]

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So probably in my Opinion Rumi has come out to hunt down Rum and she's using her name and media to attract Rum's attention.

That is quite possible. After all, Wakasa's name is an anagram seemingly revealing Rum's true identity.

 

Spoiler

RUMI WAKASA = AKAI WAS RUM

 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I have honestly been out of the loop with the latest cases, but from my glance over, this is how I am currently piecing the story together to be most consistent with the various factions' actions and reactions.

 

I think Wakasa Rumi is likely to have been the bodyguard Asaka, but Rumi is also the one who took pictures of the Kohji murder scene, removed various clues (To preserve their integrity? Fear of being framed?), and then started the ever-shifting website with all of Haneda Kohji's death info. In other words, she is not Kohji's killer, she is trying to get someone to find the real one. Kohji's dying message probably does refer to her (and thus Wakasa Rumi is her real name) and not the BO named Rum, but I haven't put much thought into whether she knows the decipherment or not. My best guess is that Kohji didn't intend to name her as the killer, but instead to point the police to the person who knew more, OR, Kohji thought wrongly that she was the killer (and disguise was involved or something. dunno.) Rumi apparently has a shogi piece which may very well be a clue from the original murder scene that has not been posted. I suspect that will clinch the Kohji murder case somehow. Her motive in getting close to Conan is probably because she wants to make contact with him or Kogoro (depending on if she knows Conan is behind Sleeping Kogoro) and get the case solved.

 

Meanwhile Kuroda Hyoue and the NPA found the website, solved the mirror clue, and consider her, wrongly, to be the primary suspect for Kohji's killer but lack concrete proof to drag her in I guess. I can't really explain why Kuroda is holding back. It's reasonable to think Asaka was the killer based on his/her behavior; Conan did make the same assumption after all. Rumi might have been framed by Rum, or Rum did it and the blame just happened to fall on her.

 

Meanwhile, the Black Organization has no idea about Wakasa Rumi, so they can't figure out the meaning of the mirror clue because they are fixated on the Rum interpretation. Because the BO/Rum hates the idea of a not-fully-understood potential time-bomb dying message, they have been sending agents to investigate ASACA things.

[gg1998 3]

• Now that you mention it, the discrepancy of the "Haneda's code" gets addressed properly. Haneda by no chance would have known the code-name "RUM". So his dying message was probably towards someone else. 
• In the last case file Gosho used Post-hoc fallacy, so it would be illogical to think that a person is cos-playing as Wakasa Rumi which resembles Haneda's dying message, to grab someone's attention. On the other hand if the message itself pointed towards Wakasa Rumi then the whole thing makes sense.
• Maybe Rum cosplayed Asaka to kill Amanda and Kohji, which makes it more believable and Asaka was Wakasa Rumi's alias.
• BTW what're your thought about Wakita? 

[gg1998 3]

During the burning tent case Rumi got really triggered after a guy mentioned about prosthetic but there are some inconsistencies which I've noticed.

The popular theory is that Rumi hates the guts of someone with a prosthetic eye,(Rum). So this means Rumi must know that Rum has a Prosthetic eye.

But Rumi isn't from BO, else she would have wrecked Rum from within. She wouldn't slugging it out in the public realm but the conversation wasn't entirely about the Prosthetic eye.

The man said that he was injured to such an extent that he almost had to opt for a Prosthetic eye.

• And Rumi got triggered after hearing that statement.
• So it can be interpreted as that statement triggered a very hated memory of her's and it involves a fierce fight with someone , where either her adversary hurt her enough that she needs to wear a Prosthetic eye or She hurt her adversary enough that the adversary needs a Prosthetic eye.
• So it's very much probable that Rumi fought with Rum in Haneda's room, while Haneda was already dead. 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

Or, She hates Rum because he used the SB prototype on people, which ultimately resulted Asaka's disappearance.

[gg1998 3]

• Highly unlikely. Prototype of SB is a sure-shot killer, else Rum wouldn't have used it. BTW even if that suggestion is true it isn't emotional enough to make her wear her heart on her sleeves in-front of random people, because the enmity is professional not personal. It killed Haneda and it wasn't APTX. Also it's highly likely that ASACA's disappearance wasn't the cause of Silver-bullet. There's no evidence that a fight broke into Amanda's room, the most likely place of the clash between Asaca and Rum. Two cases concerning Asaca popped up in the recent past. In none we see Rumi. We saw Vermouth and Bourbon in one, but Bourbon was following orders and Vermouth was keeping a tab on Bourbon so that he won't be breaking the promise. Now in the second case there's no mention of anyone from BO around the scene. Now we see Gin thinking of investigating Kogoro for his supposed involvement in the case and says the Koji case is Rum's headache. Now Gin's statement makes way for Rum to enter the playing field, Rum is jittered by the mention of the "ASACA stuffs and online uploads." It's highly likely that Rum is already prowling around Beika, investigating possible links and Rumi wants to settle the score with him for once and for all.
• [A little reconstruction]On the contrary a fight broke out in Haneda's room. It might be the result of the fight between Rum and Haneda in which Rum prevailed and made him take the poison. Somehow Haneda left a dying message. Haneda knew the name of the person being impersonated by Rum. Now someone else comes into the room and starts clashing with Rum, Rum gets the better of that person, but the person somehow lands some blows on Rum. Another one probably comes in Rum withdraws. So Rum wasn't able to clean up the mess.
• Real Asaca finds Amanda lying dead, gets paranoid as Asaca is the prime suspect of the Amanda murder case because it's been done under her/his watch, goes under ground for self preservation and probably still investigating the murder.
• Rumi= The person clashed directly with Rum and forced him to withdraw.
• Akai senior= The firstone to take on Rum.
• Asaca= Bishonen Iori.
• Rum= Wakita( currently sets his one eye on Kogoro.)

[gg1998 3]

First let's glance over the facts/data of their conversation in the Burning tent case.

1. No sooner Kuroda had appeared than Rumi shot a death-glare at him.
2. Rumi was desperately suggesting that Kuroda was there to keep a tab on someone.
3. Kuroda deflected her charges and said that he didn't have the habit to associate bad things with an elementary school teacher.

Let's also use the information that was presented in the first chapter of the said case.

1. Kuroda was surfing through websites which showed Rumi's heroics and He was pondering on her name "Wakasa Rumi, huh."
2. He also pondered about the Kohji case and the dying message.(The background)
3. He also mentioned that the said person hadn't been like this.(Said person was referred to Rumi)

Conclusions

1. Kuroda interpreted the dying message as a fraction of "Wakasa Rumi."
2. Even if the name appeared in the dying message, how Kuroda can be so sure that this Wakasa Rumi was mentioned, it can only be possible that Kuroda saw Rumi during the Kohji case but hadn't known her name back then. So he was missing a piece in the puzzle, which he got after the newspaper article.
3. The second conclusion also supports the fact that Kuroda knew Rumi enough to make a comment about her preferences, but didn't know her name. Which implies that despite their meeting they didn't exchange their names.
4. Even if Rumi thought that Kuroda was suspicious and spying on her, there was no reason for her to glare at him. If he really was spying then this act would only strengthen his doubt. So this means Kuroda's appearance was met with disdain by Rumi and she didn't hide the fact.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

"That person" was most likely referring to Rum. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been gender neutral.

[gg1998 3]

1 hour ago, MeiTanteixX said:

"That person" was most likely referring to Rum. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been gender neutral.

But then being suspicious of Waksa Rumi, won't make any sense. There can be a plethora of Wakasa Rumis or people who had all the characters of the dying message in their name, but when the person Wakasa Rumi appears, Kuroda was quick to take notice of her name. So just because her name involves the characters Kuroda won't suspect her unless she was also present around the crime scene 17 years ago. Now it can be argued that whether the Wakasa Rumi, whom Kuroda had met was the real deal or not? Kuroda being unsure of Wakasa Rumi's true identity used the gender neutral term.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

11 hours ago, gg1998 said:

Kuroda being unsure of Wakasa Rumi's true identity used the gender neutral term.

The gender neutral part was probably Gosho's touch in implying that Kuroda is talking about Rum. Basically, Kuroda was assuming and suspecting that Rumi was Rum/Asaka(due to the dying message), and that it's unlike a criminal from a secret organization to do camping activities.

[gg1998 3]

1 hour ago, MeiTanteixX said:

The gender neutral part was probably Gosho's touch in implying that Kuroda is talking about Rum. Basically, Kuroda was assuming and suspecting that Rumi was Rum/Asaka(due to the dying message), and that it's unlike a criminal from a secret organization to do camping activities.

You can conclude that Kuroda was talking about the culprit but let's ponder over this point,

• Why did Kuroda interpreted the dying message as "Wakasa RUM"?
• The only possible reason is that he saw the same woman lurking around the crime scene 17 years ago, but had no idea about her name. So now her name gave Kuroda a great lead to implicate her as the killer but Kuroda can't use his own testimony as then it'll blow up his cover. That's why he is only observing Rumi and trying to catch her red-handed.
• But the person whom he saw back then was probably someone in disguise.
• Rumi also tried to know that how Kuroda knew her name, but Kuroda never knew her, Kuroda saw Rum cosplaying Rumi.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

1 hour ago, gg1998 said:

You can conclude that Kuroda was talking about the culprit but let's ponder over this point,

• Why did Kuroda interpreted the dying message as "Wakasa RUM"?

Rather than asking about that, the question should be "why is he interested in the dying message and Kohji's case?"

Because if he's Tsutomu, that got involved and possible interfered with Rum(before he could get rid of evidence in Kohji's room) and that was forced to erase himself from existance because of it, he would want to figure out that culprit's(Rum's) identity(Since Rum was probably disguised to the extent that gender was ambiguous), and the dying message was his only lead. If you find a name that happens to have the same letters as the dying message, you would immediately investigate to confirm if it's an actual lead(especially since finding leads for a 17-year-old case is rare). Kuroda was trying to confirm his suspicion, when Shiratori gave him the opportunity to investigate Rumi. To me, his comment about "that person camping" looked like him being playful with the idea that Rumi might be the culprit/Rum, rather than him being certain that she is the culprit.

 

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• The only possible reason is that he saw the same woman lurking around the crime scene 17 years ago, but had no idea about her name. So now her name gave Kuroda a great lead to implicate her as the killer but Kuroda can't use his own testimony as then it'll blow up his cover. That's why he is only observing Rumi and trying to catch her red-handed.

He probably doesn't know whether that person is a woman or not(hence the "that person" wording, rather than "her").

 

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• But the person whom he saw back then was probably someone in disguise.

Which I agree with(As I mentioned above), but I don't think this was just him witnessing "that person"(the culprit/Rum). He most likely confronted the culprit.

 

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• Rumi also tried to know that how Kuroda knew her name, but Kuroda never knew her, Kuroda saw Rum cosplaying Rumi.

I don't agree with the bolded part. As for Rumi wondering about how he knew her name(or rather, why he's watching her), she did get her answer by provoking him. He blurted out "elementary school teacher", which is something he shouldn't know, since she was only introduced as a camping chaperone, and that lead to her getting the confirmation that his suspicion is based on the news(rather than him actually knowing her true identity).

[gg1998 3]

6 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

Rather than asking about that, the question should be "why is he interested in the dying message and Kohji's case?"

Because if he's Tsutomu, that got involved and possible interfered with Rum(before he could get rid of evidence in Kohji's room) and that was forced to erase himself from existance because of it, he would want to figure out that culprit's(Rum's) identity(Since Rum was probably disguised to the extent that gender was ambiguous), and the dying message was his only lead. If you find a name that happens to have the same letters as the dying message, you would immediately investigate to confirm if it's an actual lead(especially since finding leads for a 17-year-old case is rare). Kuroda was trying to confirm his suspicion, when Shiratori gave him the opportunity to investigate Rumi. To me, his comment about "that person camping" looked like him being playful with the idea that Rumi might be the culprit/Rum, rather than him being certain that she is the culprit.

 

He probably doesn't know whether that person is a woman or not(hence the "that person" wording, rather than "her").

 

Which I agree with(As I mentioned above), but I don't think this was just him witnessing "that person"(the culprit/Rum). He most likely confronted the culprit.

 

I don't agree with the bolded part. As for Rumi wondering about how he knew her name(or rather, why he's watching her), she did get her answer by provoking him. He blurted out "elementary school teacher", which is something he shouldn't know, since she was only introduced as a camping chaperone, and that lead to her getting the confirmation that his suspicion is based on the news(rather than him actually knowing her true identity).

1. That's the most important point to ponder over. Despite the letters "A,S,A,C,A,R,U,M" being present in a plethora of Japanese names Kuroda thinks it's a part of Wakasa Rumi. Why he needs to think like that? To me it appeared that her name triggered something only when Kuroda saw her picture.
2. I agree to that. That person is probably Rum in disguise.
3. I think it was Rumi who clashed with the culprit. Probably she is the reason for Rum's prosthetic eye.
4. Kuroda blurted out the elementary school teacher part to deflect the suspicion of him spying Rumi. It never disproves that he hasn't seen her before. 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

About the pocket item Rumi has, it sure looks like a a shogi piece, but the other part on the bottom right is weird. How about it's a shogi piece that caught a bullet like the SatoxTakagi's first kiss case's Mahjong piece?

 

By the way, Rumi's pocket item speculation has been added to the Rumi page, so if you have any good ideas, please take a screenshot and add them to the gallery.

[gg1998 3]

2 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

About the pocket item Rumi has, it sure looks like a a shogi piece, but the other part on the bottom right is weird. How about it's a shogi piece that caught a bullet like the SatoxTakagi's first kiss case's Mahjong piece?

 

By the way, Rumi's pocket item speculation has been added to the Rumi page, so if you have any good ideas, please take a screenshot and add them to the gallery.

That can be very well an error by Gosho. There are panels where he forgets to add the mask on a the lady in the 3 different silhouette suspect case.Also we can use this chart for reference 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

5 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

By the way, Rumi's pocket item speculation has been added to the Rumi page, so if you have any good ideas, please take a screenshot and add them to the gallery.

Just added one.

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

10 hours ago, gg1998 said:

That can be very well an error by Gosho. There are panels where he forgets to add the mask on a the lady in the 3 different silhouette suspect case.

It would super uncharacteristic of Gosho to mess up on a scene like this where the clue is simple, front and center. That bottom right blob, whatever it is, is definitely something real and intended. It may not be attached to the shogi piece - there could be 2 items in her pocket, but I honestly think it's all one thing because usually Gosho doesn't over-complicate things.

[gg1998 3]

46 minutes ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

It would super uncharacteristic of Gosho to mess up on a scene like this where the clue is simple, front and center. That bottom right blob, whatever it is, is definitely something real and intended. It may not be attached to the shogi piece - there could be 2 items in her pocket, but I honestly think it's all one thing because usually Gosho doesn't over-complicate things.

Did some searching, it can be like this also 

 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

On 20/04/2017 at 9:31 PM, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

I think Wakasa Rumi is likely to have been the bodyguard Asaka, but Rumi is also the one who took pictures of the Kohji murder scene, removed various clues (To preserve their integrity? Fear of being framed?), and then started the ever-shifting website with all of Haneda Kohji's death info. In other words, she is not Kohji's killer, she is trying to get someone to find the real one.

I'm curious about your opinion on Haibara getting BO-triggered by Rumi.

[gg1998 3]

1 hour ago, MeiTanteixX said:

I'm curious about your opinion on Haibara getting BO-triggered by Rumi.

Intent matters, BO or not irrelevant. Haibara can sniff out killing intent, just like she sniffed out mal intent from Kuroda but later recognized that his aura was scary. Similar case, it's not like Haibara's reaction equates BO affiliation, but mal intention for sure.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

3 hours ago, gg1998 said:

Intent matters, BO or not irrelevant. Haibara can sniff out killing intent, just like she sniffed out mal intent from Kuroda but later recognized that his aura was scary. Similar case, it's not like Haibara's reaction equates BO affiliation, but mal intention for sure.

 

So you're saying its not a BO sense that Shiho/Ai has?

[gg1998 3]

1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

So you're saying its not a BO sense that Shiho/Ai has?

All I'm saying is that her sense is not limited in sniffing out BO members. It's more of a sense of sniffing out mal-intentions around her. Generally the BO people around her gives off the mal-scent, but they're not the only ones who do that.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

9 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

I'm curious about your opinion on Haibara getting BO-triggered by Rumi.

Not sure if BO smell or just reacting to mal-intent. Haibara has reacted to general mal-intent in a few previous cases, but has never claimed it was the BO smell and been incorrect about it. My point of reference is that her reaction was muted in this latest case when Rumi did the "LetS StAb aYumI toGetheR, HeehEEHee" culprit distraction gambit. The scenario was pretty much 1 to 1 with Okiya on Ikkaku rock, yet Ai didn't have nearly the same degree of feeling.

[gg1998 3]

45 minutes ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

Not sure if BO smell or just reacting to mal-intent. Haibara has reacted to general mal-intent in a few previous cases, but has never claimed it was the BO smell and been incorrect about it. My point of reference is that her reaction was muted in this latest case when Rumi did the "LetS StAb aYumI toGetheR, HeehEEHee" culprit distraction gambit. The scenario was pretty much 1 to 1 with Okiya on Ikkaku rock, yet Ai didn't have nearly the same degree of feeling.

Hmm, but when Rumi was glaring after hearing the sentence containing Prosthetic, Ai's senses perked up. So Rumi was harbouring mal-intent back then but wasn't doing the same when she was tackling the murderer with reverse psychological tricks. That also explains why she cautioned Conan not to badmouth Rumi.