[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 969-971: Swimsuit Murder Case

[Black Demon 466]

RULES

1. Please use spoiler boxes until a full English translation is available.

2. NO DIRECT LINK to any Japanese scans (RAWs) or English scans (Japanese spoiler images are allowed as long as the amount and quality of which are very far away from a full scan).

HOW TO USE A SPOILER BOX?

Just simply type the following:

[spoiler]Text you want to write[/spoiler]

 

969 spoiler pics (still too early but look genuine enough):

 

Conan: That guy in sunglasses... he's very young, but... is he Akai-san?

Conan: If I recall correctly, at that time… Ran also…

Conan: That boy and woman… I can’t help but feel I met them somewhere. But where?

Conan: If that [unreadable] girl…. Was Sera, then… 

Middle bro(?): It’s scary… it’s like something is posessing you…
Akai(?): Who are you?
MG(?): Like possessed by a Shinigami…

 

Translations by presumenothing, Valentin and Yunnie

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

969 text spoilers:

http://tamae.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/ymag/1470311029/358

Translated by Spimer from DCTP:

Break Next Week.

File 969: Swimsuits at the dressing room (Heart)

Conan, Ran, Sonoko and Sera are buying somewhere.

Each of the girls chooses a swimsuit and they try it on to compare: when Sera shows her swimsuit it makes Conan remember someone.

The girls look like they'll still take a while so Conan, who feels out of the place, decides to go to a toy store to be alone.

If the girl with a shaggy head and a double tooth he met in the past was Sera then the young man with sunglasses was... Akai? Then who are the other young man and the woman who were there? He feels like he's met them somewhere but he's not sure of when or where.

???: "You don't remember!?"

A voice that seems directed to Conan, lost in thoughts, rings out. He checks the surroundings and sees a middle-aged woman complaining to a young employee: apparently when she stepped into a changing room after another customer used it there were remains of dog hair which she breathed and that triggered her allergy and thus she fainted.

According to the woman, the customer before her is someone with bad habits and abuses of her rank as company president and turns her entourage into her slaves with money: the employees can't stop her because she claim to know their boss/es and threaten that they'll be fired. Conan decides he'd rather not get involved into this and leaves.

He regroups with the girls and tells them what he overhead and Sera says that if this was a mystery novel the woman would be the type that would be killed straight away: Sonoko says it'd be better to ignore it but she also suggests going to check out that "previous customer". 

Conan tries to change topics and then Sera asks about what he thinks of her swimsuit: Ran seems to be thinking the same thing and asks Sera if she'd worn it before. Conan begins to recall that "time ago" Ran was also there...

A scream suddenly rings out from another floor, from where the clothes store is at.

The group gets to the changing rooms and finds the "previous customer" dead in the middle changing room (of 3). The left room has one of the entourages, the right room has the complaining middle-aged woman and the first discoverer is an employee. 

The victim shows strangulation marks on the neck: the left hand looks like it's signalling something and has been put away in a bag and the right hand is gripping something: when they open it they find that marks that the victim tried to wipe lipstick with the thumb finger. What for!?

Side-note: "Both hands' fingers seem to hold a deep meaning...!? Next number: the investigation begins!"

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Apologies for the double post.

1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

If the girl with a shaggy head and a double tooth he met in the past was Sera then the young man with sunglasses was... Akai? Then who are the other young man and the woman who were there? He feels like he's met them somewhere but he's not sure of when or where.

Conan tries to change topics and then Sera asks about what he thinks of her swimsuit: Ran seems to be thinking the same thing and asks Sera if she'd worn it before. Conan begins to recall that "time ago" Ran was also there...

 

I seriously doubt that Shinichi and Ran meeting the Akais is just going to be explained to us—unless this case is going to be the Chinatown case (347–349/284–285) for the Rum arc, and 972 is going to be the start of the Rum arc's Golden Apple case (350–354/286–288), then we're just not there, yet, and we're gonna have to wait a while longer.

Shukichi looks really young—Mary said to Masumi, in 953, that they'd met Shinichi/Conan 10 years ago. Shukichi would be 18, yet he looks shorter than Mary, and Shinichi/Conan thinks of him as "that boy." I don't think Shinichi's/Conan's memory is that fuzzy, so why does Shukichi look like a middle schooler? Or maybe it's just we aren't getting exactly diverse perspectives.

1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

???: "You don't remember!?"

 

She speaks for quite a few...

Also, any ideas as to the "Heart" part of the title, or are we just going to have to wait until next file to see if there's a pattern? I don't recall titles like... _________ (_____)... being common in DC.

[Kurara-chan 13]

Conan remember lots of things and he is like a walking encyclopedia...

Is shinichi bad at remembering people?

 

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

8 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

Spoiler

Also, any ideas as to the "Heart" part of the title, or are we just going to have to wait until next file to see if there's a pattern? I don't recall titles like... _________ (_____)... being common in DC.

its a heart symbol, not actually the word "heart" in parenthesis. 

 

 

 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

1 hour ago, Jimmy-kud0-tv2 said:

its a heart symbol, not actually the word "heart" in parenthesis. 

I'll believe it when I see the title.

If what you say is true, it's even more unprecedented. I don't recall a symbol ever being part of a file's title.

[Aries Bless 18]

I think that if the boy in Conan's memories was the middle Brother, then he looked too young to be Shukichi. Shukichi is 28 years old now, and ten years ago he would be 18. Unless of course it was more than ten years ago.

The facts:

Shinichi was four years old when he met Ran. Now he is about 16-17 years old. Ten years ago, he would be 6-7.

So the meeting with Sera, would have happened between 10-12/13 years ago. Shukichi would have been between 15-18 years old.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

A user from Tieba Baidu posted an edited image of Shukichi from File 848, Page 16, with his hair and hidden eyes matching the boy from 969's spoiler pics:

http://imgsrc.baidu.com/forum/w%3D580/sign=e85f7909fe246b607b0eb27cdbf91a35/a63200d8bc3eb13565ac90e1ae1ea8d3fd1f443c.jpg

(I would post the actual image, rather than a link to it, but I can't get the image to show up)

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

On 8/8/2016 at 4:18 PM, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

  Hide contents

A user from Tieba Baidu posted an edited image of Shukichi from File 848, Page 16, with his hair and hidden eyes matching the boy from 969's spoiler pics:

http://imgsrc.baidu.com/forum/w%3D580/sign=e85f7909fe246b607b0eb27cdbf91a35/a63200d8bc3eb13565ac90e1ae1ea8d3fd1f443c.jpg

(I would post the actual image, rather than a link to it, but I can't get the image to show up)

 

Baidu doesn't allow hotlinking, so you must reupload it somewhere. That's why it doesn't work.

 

Spoiler

Barring a gross age error by Gosho (and he is normally careful so I don't think this will be it), and that the picture isn't grossly misleading (i.e. the kid isn't sitting down with sopping wet hair, and Mary isn't a 7 foot giant), I don't think the kid could be Shuukichi. He simply looks too young, short with tiny shoulders, relative to Mary. Shuukichi is 28 now. At the age of Ran and Shinichi in the flashback, Shuukichi would be 16-18. We have seen what Shuukichi looks like at 18 and 13 years of age in flashbacks, and he wasn't a pipsqueak. At 13, fifteen years prior to the current timeline, he was at least as tall as the regular-sized dude who kidnapped Yumi.

 

The lack of glasses and not-quite-on hairstyle just convinces me further. As for who the kid is, he could be a younger brother of the late Haneda Kohji, or a magical construct created by giving life to Akai's shaved-off armpit hair.

 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Double post but more pics. Not a lot new.

 

https://imgur.com/C4uT9O1

https://imgur.com/CVHmc87

https://imgur.com/a/tnIm4

 

It's likely that there are no more flashback pics, and that most of the file is devoted to swimsuits and the current case.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Here's a summary of 969, with plenty of pics, from a Japanese blogger:

 

http://nagarebosihosihosi.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-242.html

 

On August 8, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

Barring a gross age error by Gosho (and he is normally careful so I don't think this will be it), and that the picture isn't grossly misleading (i.e. the kid isn't sitting down with sopping wet hair, and Mary isn't a 7 foot giant), I don't think the kid could be Shuukichi. He simply looks too young, short with tiny shoulders, relative to Mary. Shuukichi is 28 now. At the age of Ran and Shinichi in the flashback, Shuukichi would be 16-18. We have seen what Shuukichi looks like 

at 18 and 13 years of age in flashbacks, and he wasn't a pipsqueak. At 13, fifteen years prior to the current timeline, he was at least as tall as the regular-sized dude who kidnapped Yumi.

 

The lack of glasses and not-quite-on hairstyle just convinces me further. As for who the kid is, he could be a younger brother of the late Haneda Kohji, or a magical construct created by giving life to Akai's shaved-off armpit hair.

 

 

Also, the boy's chin is pointed, while Shukichi's—as both an 18-year-old and 28-year-old—is square.

 

We haven't seen Shukichi, without glasses, drawn in the eye-covering, mysterious look, but we could say that the place where his hair parts would still be there, barring his hair being wet. I assume that most people who wear glasses don't wear them to the beach if they intend to go in the water, so that could be the explanation for why he has no glasses. I also assume that Mary wasn't standing behind the boy, like that, but, rather, that Shinichi/Conan imagined them together, as the two people he's struggling to remember.

 

What's this about 15 years ago and him being 13? In which File/Case did we see that? I only recall two flashbacks going back 10 years, the first from 900, and the second from 945–947—though the latter was just a few background pictures, recalled by the old man from that case.

 

This boy is either Shukichi—and Shinichi's/Conan's still-fuzzy memory leads to him looking all off, until we get a moment in this case where Shinichi/Conan has a revelation, and it all comes back to him—or a new character.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

16 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

What's this about 15 years ago and him being 13? In which File/Case did we see that? I only recall two flashbacks going back 10 years, the first from 900, and the second from 945–947—though the latter was just a few background pictures, recalled by the old man from that case.

 

I was repeating what I had heard on the cbox, which I think was in turn repeated from the Chinese, who have been unreliable in the past about theory data. The scene I listed as 15 years ago in the flashback is ten years ago (File 945p11). We don't have an older image of Shuukichi we can pin down with an accurate number.

 

Turns out the English Translation is wrong. It's from over 10 years ago.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

 

Upon reflection, I'd say there's a chance the boy and Mary were standing together like Shinichi/Conan imagined/remembered—after all, Mary's words seem to be a follow-up to the boy's:

Boy: "It’s scary… like being possesed by something…"
Mary: "Posessed by a Shinigami…"

Also, here's a translation of 969 by Yunnie-chan:
http://yesyunniechan.tumblr.com/post/148703420041/detective-conan-chapter-969-japanese-to-english

 

I'd say that even if the boy isn't Shukichi, Shukichi is still the Akai family middle brother.

 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Ugh, Kor just informed me on the dctp spoiler cbox that I have to take back my take back. That image is of Shuukichi over 10 years ago, the English translation is faulty, and the Chinese is correct. That means for sure that Shuukichi was the height of a normal adult at the time the Ran Shinichi flashback took place.

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

4 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

Ugh, Kor just informed me on the dctp spoiler cbox that I have to take back my take back. That image is of Shuukichi over 10 years ago, the English translation is faulty, and the Chinese is correct. That means for sure that Shuukichi was the height of a normal adult at the time the Ran Shinichi flashback took place.

 

Here is the panel in Japanese if anyone is interested. 

"more than 10 years ago"

"middle school pro" ect. 

 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

10 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

Ugh, Kor just informed me on the dctp spoiler cbox that I have to take back my take back. That image is of Shuukichi over 10 years ago, the English translation is faulty, and the Chinese is correct. That means for sure that Shuukichi was the height of a normal adult at the time the Ran Shinichi flashback took place.

I wouldn't say the old man having the height of a "normal adult"(If the picture that @Jimmy-kud0-tv2 posted is what you're referring to). Besides, when your legs are crossed, while sitting on the floor, your height will seem shorter than when you're on your knee.

[Tsukiko 73]

I'm hyped of this case.  I can't wait to see more context for the spoiler pics.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

On 8/11/2016 at 5:04 AM, MeiTanteixX said:

I wouldn't say the old man having the height of a "normal adult"(If the picture that @Jimmy-kud0-tv2 posted is what you're referring to). Besides, when your legs are crossed, while sitting on the floor, your height will seem shorter than when you're on your knee.

I checked the old man. As you can see in 945p14 he's short, but he is also significantly bent over. Straighten him out and his chin is level with Yumi's clavicle. Back to the flashback picture, even if you shave off a few inches of Shuukichi's legs for sitting on them, his torso length is only a touch shorter than the old man's (who is also sitting on a pillow and in a similar state of bent overness). That means that middle school Shuukichi should have his chin height slightly below Yumi's clavicle. The flashback kid has his chin 3/4 of a head below Mary's clavicle. Assuming the flashback is 10-12 years ago like most are, Shuukichi should be in high school (16-18) rather than middle school, and thus taller than the middle school flashback.

 

Again, I'm making a raft of assumptions I discussed earlier: that Mary isn't unusually tall for a DC woman, the perspective isn't wonky (like the kid is walking down some stairs and Mary is on the step above), the kid's hair isn't sopping wet (it is a beach case!). We only have that one picture to work from, so it's hard to call. I'm leaning on not Shuukichi for now, because of the aforementioned reasons and because the kid hasn't shown any verbal content traits that match Shuukich's quirks. I will change persepctives if more information comes out in favor of Shuukichi later.

[Black Demon 466]

For reference, in the Soul Detective case, Mary did comment that Conan and the boy whom they met 10 years ago are like 2 different persons now, so the flashback most likely took place about 10 years prior to the current timeline.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

8 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

I checked the old man. As you can see in 945p14 he's short, but he is also significantly bent over. Straighten him out and his chin is level with Yumi's clavicle. Back to the flashback picture, even if you shave off a few inches of Shuukichi's legs for sitting on them, his torso length is only a touch shorter than the old man's (who is also sitting on a pillow and in a similar state of bent overness). The flashback kid has his chin 3/4 of a head below Mary's clavicle. Assuming the flashback is 10-12 years ago like most are, Shuukichi should be in high school (16-18) rather than middle school, and thus taller than the middle school flashback. That means that middle school Shuukichi should have his chin height slightly below Yumi's clavicle.

 

Again, I'm making a raft of assumptions I discussed earlier: that Mary isn't unusually tall for a DC woman, the perspective isn't wonky (like the kid is walking down some stairs and Mary is on the step above), the kid's hair isn't sopping wet (it is a beach case!). We only have that one picture to work from, so it's hard to call. I'm leaning on not Shuukichi for now, because of the aforementioned reasons and because the kid hasn't shown any verbal content traits that match Shuukich's quirks. I will change persepctives if more information comes out in favor of Shuukichi later.

 

Shinichi's/Conan's thoughts from 969 have so little context—clearly, he's not at the revelation point (and neither is Ran—I wonder if she and Shinichi/Conan will have a simultaneous revelation, given that they're both keen on remembering meeting Masumi). Maybe his memory is fuzzy enough (probably not the most apt word choice, on my part) that he isn't remembering Shukichi right. He didn't immediately connect Mary to the woman, even though that's the first person that should've jumped to his mind, so who knows how accurate his memories are, before his revelation point?

 

We probably will have to wait until 972 (presuming this case ends at 971) to get confirmation on whether this character is Shukichi or not.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

8 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

I checked the old man. As you can see in 945p14 he's short, but he is also significantly bent over. Straighten him out and his chin is level with Yumi's clavicle. Back to the flashback picture, even if you shave off a few inches of Shuukichi's legs for sitting on them, his torso length is only a touch shorter than the old man's (who is also sitting on a pillow and in a similar state of bent overness). The flashback kid has his chin 3/4 of a head below Mary's clavicle. Assuming the flashback is 10-12 years ago like most are, Shuukichi should be in high school (16-18) rather than middle school, and thus taller than the middle school flashback. That means that middle school Shuukichi should have his chin height slightly below Yumi's clavicle.

That's assuming that Conan wasn't just imagining the two unknowns together, rather than them actually standing beside each other...

 

Shuukichi's(unknown boy's) design is definitely looking off, and Gosho is usually not someone to mess up character art, but I still think that unless it's nothing, we will still get a good explanation for that appearance and that he is indeed still Shuukichi, the middle bro.

[Aries Bless 18]

About the murder case. I think it's safe to assume that the reason behind the wiped lipstick was not due to a trick the killer made to let the victim let down her guard, because then the rope would have been around the arm as well making it much difficult to strangle the victim. Maybe the victim used her lipstick to leave a mark on her killer and then used her right hand to point the spot out of where she left it.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

So, for the identity of the mysterious kid, there are 3 options. 1) being Shukichi, though I do not support it for the mere fact that Shukichi is supposed to be 28-29 years old as his classmates claimed. 10 years ago would make him 18-19 even if you take a few years off, the kid still looks 15 at most. Also the hair style and the chin structure are different, yet could be a total dismiss. 2) being a different character that we know of, Conan did say that he have seen the two characters somewhere. If we assume the woman whom we think it is, the child is someone we also know but have dismissed. It could be Akai father deaged, though unlikely due to the fact of his unknown current whereabouts and what happened to him in the 7 years gap between Haneda Kouji and the time of the memory. I also thought it would be Rei Furuya as a previous mention that there is more to his skin and hair color, but it is impossible to be him because we know from his memory that since early childhood when he remember Elena Miyano that he did have at the time a dyed hair and dark skin.

3) Could be a new character to be introduced, a new brother perhaps??, unlikely because Conan says he have seen him somewhere. My intake is that the child is someone who we know of but his appearance changed since childhood.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

23 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

That's assuming that Conan wasn't just imagining the two unknowns together, rather than them actually standing beside each other...

 

I think she was assuming that, as well as...

 

On August 11, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

I'm making a raft of assumptions I discussed earlier: that Mary isn't unusually tall for a DC woman, the perspective isn't wonky (like the kid is walking down some stairs and Mary is on the step above), the kid's hair isn't sopping wet (it is a beach case!). We only have that one picture to work from, so it's hard to call. I'm leaning on not Shuukichi for now, because of the aforementioned reasons and because the kid hasn't shown any verbal content traits that match Shuukichi's quirks. I will change persepctives if more information comes out in favor of Shuukichi later.

 

23 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

Shuukichi's(unknown boy's) design is definitely looking off, and Gosho is usually not someone to mess up character art, but I still think that unless it's nothing, we will still get a good explanation for that appearance and that he is indeed still Shuukichi, the middle bro.

 

The only explanation I can think of is that Shinichi's/Conan's memory is effectively distorting Shukichi. Even with shrunken Mary being the only character in DC (and that Shinichi/Conan has seen) whose hair is a match to the woman he sees, and even with Shinichi/Conan theorizing that Mary, indeed, was, like him, shrunk, he still hasn't made the connection—thus, I'd say Shinichi/Conan isn't that trustworthy when it comes to, at least, Mary and the middle brother... until he has his revelation moment, of course.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Apologies for the double post.

 

970 text spoilers:

http://tamae.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/ymag/1471451545/272

 

Will update when Spimer from DCTP translates.