Discussion Thread about Rum

[bhavesh sinyal 0]

Although people say he has 3 forms, the rest 2 are disguises. Also his main goal is to investigate sherry's death. she did not die when gin shot her three times. So the boss may be feeling, sherry is still alive. She is not the type to go down in a train bombing(the boss is careful to the extreme)

[bhavesh sinyal 0]

People have seen him as an old man, a feminist man and an old man. But there may be more than that, many more disguises . . .

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Although people say he has 3 forms, the rest 2 are disguises. Also his main goal is to investigate sherry's death. she did not die when gin shot her three times. So the boss may be feeling, sherry is still alive. She is not the type to go down in a train bombing(the boss is careful to the extreme)

 

Uh, Bourbon saw her (Kid) get in the carriage, and then it exploded. Nobody but Kid, due to his hang glider, could've survived that. Only Vermouth knows that Sherry's still alive.

 

Thus, unless the trick is discovered by the BO, or Rum himself sees Shiho/Ai, hunting Sherry can't be his objective.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

if u watched the trailor once again those are eyes of Vermouth as shown in trailor if pause that part of vermouth.

I don't think so, unless Vermouth is disguising as someone (probably RUM) and shows her eyes if what u say is true....her disguised eyes..

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

if u watched the trailor once again those are eyes of Vermouth as shown in trailor if pause that part of vermouth.

 

 

 

As you can see, they're not the same.

[EthanHunter 7]

Those are totally Rum's eyes

What interests me is that they resemble... a lot to the Akai family's eyes. 

This might however be a total coincidence because even Scotch kinda resembled the Akai's but let's hope there is something more to it.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Those are totally Rum's eyes

And why would Gosho allow the reveal of such a distinctive detail to such an important question in a non-canon movie?

 

You do realize this could be a movie-only BO member, like Irish, right?

[Heliotropic 139]

And why would Gosho allow the reveal of such a distinctive detail to such an important question in a non-canon movie?

 

You do realize this could be a movie-only BO member, like Irish, right?

 

Or a character completely unrelated to the BO. There is also the possibility that the eyes are just included in the promo to generate hype and get people talking, and it worked. Maybe there won't even be a character like that in the movie.

 

It does have to be said that this is a promo. The "real" trailer hasn't even came out yet, but I agree with this. I don't think there's any way that such a significant thing would be revealed in a movie promo, and I have my doubts on how Rum will "appear" in the movie to begin with.

 

However, I do think that the eyes are supposed to represent Rum, and they know people are going to draw the comparison. It's good marketing, and I'm sure they are going to pull out all the stops to try and make the movie as successful as possible. 

[EthanHunter 7]

Well I mean I'm not saying Rum will necessarily appear in the movie, just that those eyes are clearly meant to be his... and yes of course that might just be to create a hype and especially since Gosho didn't mention much about Rum being in this movie.

However, again, I think they are Rum's eyes... why? Well because I think it's almost time for us to know more about him... and those eyes may remove some suspects from our suspect lists if they are confirmed to be Rum's, but I'm not convinced with any of the suspects yet so I don't think that it's a very big deal that a movie can't have seeing even Akai=Subaru was revealed in a movie.

 

I would also rather have another Kid disguised as Shinichi movie than another movie with non-canon BO members to be honest

[Heliotropic 139]

Well I mean I'm not saying Rum will necessarily appear in the movie, just that those eyes are clearly meant to be his... and yes of course that might just be to create a hype and especially since Gosho didn't mention much about Rum being in this movie.

 

I think that the eyes definitely are supposed to represent Rum, but I don't think they belong to Rum, so I can definitely agree with you here.

 

But to quote myself on why I don't think that these will be Rum's eyes, from what we know in canon...

 

Lastly, I really don't think Rum will have two different colored eyes. I think if Rum had two different colored eyes, and one of them was a prosthetic, the rumors wouldn't be nearly as consistent. I think that Rum's prosthetic will be more akin to Goudzou's in that it was more "realistic" looking. It also seems sensible to me that if you were to get an artificial eye, you wouldn't get one of a different color...

 

However, again, I think they are Rum's eyes... why? Well because I think it's almost time for us to know more about him... and those eyes may remove some suspects from our suspect lists if they are confirmed to be Rum's, but I'm not convinced with any of the suspects yet so I don't think that it's a very big deal that a movie can't have seeing even Akai=Subaru was revealed in a movie.

 

We're "overdue" for a lot of things, but I suspect if Rum makes a direct appearance in the movie, and not as a silhouette, he'll have to show up in the manga before hand. The scenario with Akai/Subaru was a bit different because we also had plenty of hints to come to a conclusion before the "reveal" in Movie 18. While it was a first to do something like this before the manga, we had basically had the answer in the anime at the end of the Mystery Train (and other hints to draw from as well). By the time Movie 20 airs in theaters, we certainly won't have nearly the same level of information on Rum as we did in the the anime before 18. Even most of the current "suspects" can be dismissed in one way or another.

Even if we learn Rum's identity by April, I'd still find it a bit strange that Rum would be revealed in the movie with so little hints in the anime.

 

Overall, they're definitely doing a good job of hyping us up, Gosho included. We've got the AC hint, and the movie website and promo are certainly alluding to an appearance from Rum. I suppose the question remains... in what way...

 

The trailer should come out around December 2nd I think? Maybe a little bit after once the title gets an official reveal. Coincidentally, the latest file should conclude on Dec 2nd, so maybe this will be an opportune time to reveal something? (Highly doubt this though)

[Rye 122]

I think it's highly likely that Rum's mission is to look out for "rats" in the Organization. Vermouth's statement in File 898 (Scarlet Epilogue) about Gin being on guard for spies in the Organization may be foreshadowing Rum's appearance and role in the plot (and especially after we've also had two major Organization member-related plot arcs only to find out that they're actually undercover agents). 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

The trailer should come out around December 2nd I think? Maybe a little bit after once the title gets an official reveal. Coincidentally, the latest file should conclude on Dec 2nd, so maybe this will be an opportune time to reveal something? (Highly doubt this though)

 

We've got 21 (not including this coming one, for which spoilers are due out today or tomorrow) weeks to go until the movie releases. There'll be two breaks in December, and a few more, spread out for the next couple months. We'll probably be in the 950s by the time Movie 20 comes out. If the case, then, relates to Rum, the file that's supposed to come out on the 18th (or the 20th, if you classify Wednesdays as the release dates) may release early, as was the case with File 894 for Dimensional Sniper. We may be able to figure this out if there's a lead-in case going on, in the weeks leading up to the release—on the other hand, the lead-in to the big Rum case may be the file that comes out immediately after the movie's release.

[Guest]

 

(only using quote to get the picture of the eyes)

 

 

It has been revealed on the Movie 20 site that a woman with Odd eyes (heterochromia) who has amnesia will appear in the film,

these are most likely her eyes. Vermouth is apparently watching Conan interact with the woman from a distance away. 

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

And she is most likely the spy.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

And she is most likely the spy.

yeah, the spy STOUT perhaps,...dammit! they did it again! xD I will never learn to stop underestimating the movie staff's traps, because they are so damn creative! but we all knew that Rum wouldn't appear in the movie(only probably mentioned) whatsoever(unless gosho reveals something of him before the movie comes out)!

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

yeah, the spy STOUT perhaps,...dammit! they did it again! xD I will never learn to stop underestimating the movie staff's traps, because they are so damn creative! but we all knew that Rum wouldn't appear in the movie(only probably mentioned) whatsoever(unless gosho reveals something of him before the movie comes out)!

Rum's existence is almost confirmed, however not fully.. So my guess is that Rum's true existence would emit in the movie, rather than appearing in full person or uncovering his id. I guess Gosho-sama would most likely confirm his existence and even might give us a deeper hint into the three descriptions of him.. 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Some quick thoughts:

 

There are three-ish general types of communication: 1) Visual In person/video chat/teleconferencing 2) Auditory radio/phone call 3) Written text/email

 

Rum could use a combination of the three which could lead to the confusion. Recall the 252 Subaru case where Agasa was kidnapped. The kidnappers thought Ai was a middle schooler because the childish pitch of her voice + adult way of speaking lead to a confused middle guess between the two. Movie 20 has a reasonable chance of clarifying how Rum likes to talk to other agents even if we don't get any decisive clues about what he looks like.

 

The problem with radio/phone call and text/email is that you can't see any fake eyes. That makes those two methods somewhat unfavorable since everyone seems to know and agree about the false eye. If Rum appears directly in person, most of the agents probably wouldn't be so confused about his appearance, even if he did cover himself up. Video communication is the happy vague medium as it allows significant control over how you appear to others (e.g. always in shadow).

 

As for other ways Rum could be obscured, Rum might always be sitting down because he is confined to a wheelchair for instance. That might make it hard to ascertain his build. If had a injury that took an eye, it might have taken his legs too.

 

Right now, I am still inclined to believe the fake eye that Rum uses in front of the Black Organization is visually stunning: like a mechanical eye with a bright red LED pupil.

 

It's really clear that Gosho is going for different observer perspective/bias = different conclusions scenario for Rum's true appearance. The latest case with the Detective Boys seems to be a very blatant hint for the readers on how to approach the Rum problem. As we start acquiring more suspects while the arc progresses, we are going to to have to work backwards from each suspect's looks and habits to figure out how they could mislead someone in the right scenario. The character who is Rum will have certain behaviors or appearance quirks, which in the right perspective, will definitively create the three observations.

Subtle behaviors associated having a fake eye (which will likely be quite inconspicuous when used in public) will confirm Rum's identity. I would be very, very wary of any character who has to turn their face further than expected to look in a particular direction, misses action in their peripheral vision on one side, or positions their body or switches handedness to use the side the good eye is on for certain tasks like shooting or playing pool. Depth perception issues may be used as hints. That means failure to track flying objects, unusual lousyness at catching and all ball games, and unusual cautiousness in setting things down (e.g. putting a glass down and then sliding it to position away from the edge of the table, rather than putting directly into position) to make sure they are put in the right place. (These habits should affect the moving of game pieces in games like Shogi, for instance.)

 

I am still bothered a lot by the infodump about Kuroda Hyoue. I don't think Kuroda is Rum because of his knowledge of Conan, but there was an excessive amount of information about his past that was left in the lurch. Kuroda Hyoue got in an accident 10 years ago and was put into a coma. Hyoue's face was bandaged so that people and even the nurses weren't really clear what he looked like. It was noted that he seems different, he looks quite different from his past appearance, and he has "memory loss". This information hasn't been used in a case yet. While it could be a red herring to make him fit the Rum criteria, I don't think Gosho would just create an elaborate backstory just for that. There must be more to it. I originally speculated in his intro case he was swapped out for someone. While that wasn't true in that murder case, the details of Hyoue's change from his past and current state still work suspiciously well in a swap hypothesis. I am not ready to abandon the idea just yet...

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

I am still bothered a lot by the infodump about Kuroda Hyoue. I don't think Kuroda is Rum because of his knowledge of Conan, but there was an excessive amount of information about his past that was left in the lurch. Kuroda Hyoue got in an accident 10 years ago and was put into a coma. Hyoue's face was bandaged so that people and even the nurses weren't really clear what he looked like. It was noted that he seems different, he looks quite different from his past appearance, and he has "memory loss". This information hasn't been used in a case yet. While it could be a red herring to make him fit the Rum criteria, I don't think Gosho would just create an elaborate backstory just for that. There must be more to it. I originally speculated in his intro case he was swapped out for someone. While that wasn't true in that murder case, the details of Hyoue's change from his past and current state still work suspiciously well in a swap hypothesis. I am not ready to abandon the idea just yet...

 

I agree with this—"Hyoue" is likely someone who slipped in at the right time, and has passed himself off as the real thing.

 

As for who he really is...

 

I can't shake the feeling he may be the father of the Akai kids—remember Gosho's hint, "Unfortunately, Akai's father is already... it's a secret!"

 

There has yet to be an interaction between "Hyoue" and MG, Shuichi/Subaru, Shukichi and Masumi, so I'm waiting for that.

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

We need a Kuroda case soon.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

 

I am still bothered a lot by the infodump about Kuroda Hyoue. I don't think Kuruda is Rum because of his knowledge of Conan, but there was an excessive amount of information about his past that was left in the lurch. Kuroda Hyoue got in an accident 10 years ago and was put into a coma. Hyoue's face was bandaged so that people and even the nurses weren't really clear what he looked like. It was noted that he seems different, he looks quite different from his past appearance, and he has "memory loss". This information hasn't been used in a case yet. While it could be a red herring to make him fit the Rum criteria, I don't think Gosho would just create an elaborate backstory just for that. There must be more to it. I originally speculated in his intro case he was swapped out for someone. While that wasn't true in that murder case, the details of Hyoue's change from his past and current state still work suspiciously well in a swap hypothesis. I am not ready to abandon the idea just yet...

 

Your thoughts and the way you put them makes me realize, that in a weak theory. Perhaps Kuroda was involved in the same accident that also took Rum's eye, it happens a lot in anime where a character is fitting a description of a mysterious character but turns out to be involved only and not the actual character. Therefore, Kuroda lost his memory of the chase after BO and as greatly skilled as he may be, during his fight both him and Rum had an 'accident' leading to them both losing their eyes. Kuroda is burned from the right side of his face, which makes Rum most likely to be burned or scarred from the left side of his face if they were facing each other. More so Rum would have at least to be as tough as Kuroda and at least as smart as him as well.. Makes since if Gosho-sama planned ahead that Kuroda would replace Matsumoto and lead the police force in the final arch, as someone with experience against the BO.. 

[Guest]

Are we even sure that this point that Rum will look like the person who fits these descriptions? Haibara had to remember these descriptions from a long time ago, so are we sure that Rum will look the exact same now? For example, Shuuichi when he infiltrated the BO had really long hair, but some time recently (in the past year, but after NY flashback) he cut his hair off. Is it possible that Rum's appearance might have changed slightly (via Gosho) as well to make it harder to match the three descriptions to the person? 

 

 

Also this joke was made on the dctp spoielr chat box a while ago but 

Sort of young/strong looking

very feminine, possibly due to long hair

and old looking due to having grey / silver hair

and a fake eye?

 

Gosho could be talking about MAXIMILLION PEGASUS  (from Yu-gi-oh!)

(He is a pretty good example of the meeting of all of the descriptions)

 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Are we even sure that this point that Rum will look like the person who fits these descriptions? Haibara had to remember these descriptions from a long time ago, so are we sure that Rum will look the exact same now? For example, Shuuichi when he infiltrated the BO had really long hair, but some time recently (in the past year, but after NY flashback) he cut his hair off. Is it possible that Rum's appearance might have changed slightly (via Gosho) as well to make it harder to match the three descriptions to the person? 

 

I am pretty sure Rum will still fit all three descriptions or we will be shown a picture of what he used to look like in the past as part of a routine case because of Gosho's fairplay style. Also, Aoyama usually layers his mysteries in parallel rather than in series. In the Bourbon arc, Okiya's identity could be solved separately from Akai's faked death strategem. Ditto for Scar Akai and Tooru Amuro. I don't think that Gosho would try to force us to deduce what Rum looked like XX years ago on top of matching him to all three criteria and noticing the fake eye without also shoehorning in some pretty strong hints about the line of inquiry we should be following. (strong hints about the line of inquiry = DB Three different witnesses stabbing case/Rum's appearance question, Shinichi's NY case/Vermouth's disguise level, Shiragami case disguise and motive/Scar Akai disguise and motive, Detective Dude who orders Bourbon in Amuro's intro... etc)

[Guest]

(strong hints about the line of inquiry = DB Three different witnesses stabbing case/Rum's appearance question, 

 

The thing that bothered me the most is that stabbing case: 

It seemed so overly like a Rum case due to the line of descriptions

but rather than discussing Rum with Haibara, it focused more on Mystery Girl

and her possible connection to Haibara. It just felt weird.

I know he has written multiple plot threads together into the same case in the past

but normally he does that mostly when he is getting closer to merging them someway or finding a way to connect them.

 

I kind of want to copy/paste that message I sent you about Rum, 8-9 months ago and see what others think

even if it seems a bit off-the-wall in terms of logic.

 

Mar 23, 2015

I keep thinking about the description of Rum that we have been given so far, I just feel like the comment about him having an artificial eye is such a strong comment that it is kind of weird. Surely the eye comment alone is enough to narrow down a huge series of people into a small group of people who have obvious facial scaring that the other descriptions of Rum would seem unnecessary. 

 

I was thinking that maybe the artificial eye is possibly not an artificial eye at all, but might be something that is equivalent to having one, or even something that doesn't look like an eye at all, but might hold the meaning of having a spare eye. 

 

As much as it pains me to even think about it, I was thinking that maybe the Mystery Girl might be Rum somehow. The three descriptions of Rum that Haibara overheard might actually be descriptions of Masumi wearing her many various outfits (or since she resembles her mother, it might be her mother wearing them before she shrank). If the people who described her out loud didn't know her personally, they might have not even known that she was female (many characters have had this problem ever since Masumi was introduced). Oviously Masumi knows Jeet kune do which would account for the strong aspect (It could be a thing that runs in the family like how all of the Mouri's know that one Judo throw). She appears male from a distance, but could potentially give off female aspects in other ways that would make it seem to someone else that she would be a man with feminine qualities. I'm not sure how the whole british outfit thing works out, but wearing those could make her seem older to certain types of people since they might be older fashions. The artificial eye thing may just be literally that Mystery Girl uses Masumi as a detective to scout ahead or to spy on people without becoming directly involved (or that Masumi carries around a digital camera with her like the one from the Adultery case)...... If any of this did end up fitting, it would tie up a good number of loose ends that explain why they are even here in the series, and it would also give a reason for why Masumi gives off some similarity in aspect to Lum-chan from Urusei Yatsura. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Even if it is wrong, I still kind of want to take it as far as it can go, just in the case that something could click and explain something else about Masumi and the Mystery Girl, even if it is not this. I just really didn't want to post it to the forums since its still such an incomplete theory.

 

As for motive and situation, I was thinking that Mystery Girl could have been a loyal member of the BO and then after hearing about the death of Shuuichi (because all members of the BO seem to think he is dead except Bourbon) decided to defect and ended up in a situation similar to Haibara, which would explain her having been fed the drug quite recently. Having only Masumi to rely on because she doesn't know who she can trust at the moment. Conan and Haibara would definitely be strong contenders of people to reach out to since they are in a similar situation. It would at the very least, give reason for her to say something like "If he doesn't live up to our expectations, we will have to leave here and find a new stronghold", as if she is clearly running/hiding herself.

 

It would seem to me that even if Shiho worked in a public lab space, that only someone from the BO would actually know what she was working on. That maybe Mystery Girl knew what Shiho looked like and sent Masumi to find someone with a similar description, with the addition of that they might have been shrunken as well. Somewhere along the line Masumi figures out that Conan is Shinichi and realizes that the conveniently missing member of the DB group every time she shows up, might be the missing Shiho and becomes obsessed with just meeting her in order to visually confirm that Haibara is Shiho. After that, she wouldn't even need to bother Haibara directly, but just convince Mystery Girl to join Conan's side, dropping hints about each side to the other. 

 

Also I was thinking that maybe Ran's comment about the sounds of waves (giving the imagery of a beach) when seeing Masumi's back might add to the pirate imagery that Rum has going on. Masumi also has the pointy tooth thing which is a throw back to Urusei Yatsura's Lum-chan (or by extension since Masumi resembles her mother, her mother could have that tooth in certain situations since Masumi doesn't have it all the time either)

 

It still kind of bothers me that Kir's message this time was just a text message and it was only sent to Shuuichi. She was told to communicate with Jodie in order to keep up appearances that Shuuichi was dead. However only Shuuichi knew about this one. One could argue that it was a message sent under duress or some kind of time constraint. But why send it to Shuuichi at all ? I feel like it was some kind of message that his mother, in this theory Rum, was in danger rather than a threat. The message contained only the word RUM, so Shuuichi would have to be aware who that person is in order for  that message to hold any kind of meaning. 

 

(everyone can probably ignore this last paragraph)

 

Another thing that kind of bothered me is on the Mystery train, when Vermouth was wandering around as Scar Akai she was trying to pass by Haibara and keep her distracted while Haibara and Ran were talking to Bourbon. Almost as if to give us, the reader, the idea that Vermouth's Bo scent is stronger than others, or that Haibara would immediately recognize her's and not notice Bourbon's Bo scent even though he was standing right next to her. What is kind of odd to me is that she does a similar thing before that by peaking in to the room where Masumi and Haibara are meeting for the first time. Literally as soon as Masumi calls out Haibara and leans down to get in her face and possibly make her scared, Masumi immedietly darts from the room to chase Vermouth/Akai. As Conan states later, he believed that room to be wire tapped, so why would Vermouth even peek into the room? There was no way that Vermouth could have tazed Masumi during that particular scene because of the possibility that anyone else in that same room could come out and witness it, so why even do it in the first place? If Masumi did have some form of Bo scent, this would have definitely been a way to mask it, as well as get her away from Haibara, who was the intended victim that Vermouth was after anyway. Conveniently Masumi and Haibara have not crossed paths again.

 

 

 

 

.

[Hanfois 5]

I got a weird thought about the relation between these two names:

Dai "Moroboshi" and takaaki "morofushi" both last names are very similar

I know that Akai doesn't know RUM's identity but it's possible that both last names were chosen on purpose(foreshadowing for something maybe..) it might hint that komei is related to BO

 

i know there is no proof for that and it could be just a coincidence that even Gosho didn't notice

[Aries Bless 18]

Haibara said that Rum should have a fake eye, but we haven't yet seen what Kuroda's eye looks like under the glasses. But it seemes strange, that someone, a chief from Nagano, who has been in a coma for ten years could become superinterdent in Tokyo. 

I think that maybe Kuroda comes from the same bureau as Bourbon(Amuro/Furuya) with the mission on keeping an eye on Conan from the other side, where Bourbon can't involve himself in. I mean the PSB must have decided to investigate Conan after the incident with Akai.